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Inquiry Why All The Hate Toward Reptiles By Mack?

I agree, it makes all of us look bad. The fact is that most of these animals aren't worth enough for them to care about whether they survive or not. If they actually treated them/fed them/housed them properly it would no longer be profitable for them. I absolutely don't agree with it but it's reality.
 
If any of you get the "opportunity" to go through a wholesaler's facility you'll see what I mean. It's almost overwhelming but there's nothing you can do. At the point where this is the only way to remain profitable it might be time to consider raising the prices.
 
And for those that breed and sell what they breed (for the most part) I am little insulted by the ad I see go up every day saying "Breeder Direct". I always question when a large volume company sells adults, a breeder and jobber but certainly nothing to be admired in their lack of compassion for the animals they sell. If they get them in the shape where I saw them dying I would think they would pass the blame but if they end up like that because they lived in Xenia for a while then shame on them.
 
If any of you get the "opportunity" to go through a wholesaler's facility you'll see what I mean. It's almost overwhelming but there's nothing you can do. At the point where this is the only way to remain profitable it might be time to consider raising the prices.

Then maybe they need to stop worrying so much about milking every penny out of the animals and start putting money into proper care. I would much rather see prices rise than have crap like this going on.
 
Then maybe they need to stop worrying so much about milking every penny out of the animals and start putting money into proper care. I would much rather see prices rise than have crap like this going on.

I completely agree. If it's not possible to provide the animals with proper care and still profit then stop selling them so cheap. The problem is that if they won't sell at the bottom prices another wholesaler will, it all comes down to making money.

The big retail stores offer x dollars for x animals and that's the bottom line. Either you fill it or someone else will. At some point something has to change, either when fish and wildlife cracks down or people start caring. I'll venture a guess it will be the first before the second.
 
The interesting thing about their prices is they are asking double what other breeders charge for most of their inventory.
 
I am mildly shocked .. though I think several of you have identified the downside of large wholesale where there is money in numbers/quality ... individual animals do suffer. It has been a few years since I last dealt with them but when I have it has always been pleasant (post 15) ... and communication has always been great. Couple things to keep in mind is first and foremost the source of the video .... I have a # of shirt from vendors I could throw on and represent them ... not saying that is the case here but it could be done. Does anyone know if RBM is the supplier to PetSmart ... I kn ow Petco uses a different vendor. Regardless ... it is sad the conditions some animals need to live in.
 
Curious..... I'm sure I am going to hate posting this later on, but right now this all just really rubbed me in a way obviously different from many others responding here.

How exactly did PETA get the run of the place at RBM and how long were they there? Was PETA purposely allowed access or did they get some people hired there specifically to do that obvious smear job? How many did they say they have already "exposed"? Six? Well, gee, now why do you suppose they are doing this? And do you think perhaps their choices of which videos to show were entirely random and non-biased?

Heck, any moderate to large concern who works with live animals is going to have deaths, injuries, dirty cages, mistakes, accidents and neglectful people, or an insufficient number of people working for them. It's the nature of the business. Even small pet shops are NOT going to be able to avoid mortality, sick animals, or dirty cages. Animals die. Animals get sick. Animals crap. Cages get dirty 30 seconds after you clean them. Unless you only have one single animal and monitor it 24/7/365 it's cage will get dirty and stay that way till you look in on it and clean it. How many people here have cleaned a cage and then watched the animal take a dump right after you put it back in that clean cage? Multiply that times 10,000 or more, which will be the case at any and all wholesalers and what do you have when some people LOOKING for such things in the worst possible light start taking video and photos..

So does that mean there should be NO wholesalers of animals? Let me know how that works out for this industry. Yes, there are ugly sides to it, but unless I am very mistaken, you just cannot have the good side without the bad. Do I feel sorry for the animals, yes I do. But I'll feel even sorrier to see the day come when YOU cannot have any animals at all for pets or other reasons. Which is exactly where this is headed if PETA gets what it wants.

All in all an interesting video if nothing else for what PETA's obvious goal is. So I get the impression that we all should jump on the PETA bandwagon now? Go to 2:50 at the end of the video and listen to their goals. Sure let's all get worked up into a lynch mob and help them reach their goals. Boycott pet shops that sell animals! Get ALL animals out of the hands of everyone? And we are going to start with wholesalers! Yeah, that's the ticket!

If pet shops no longer sell animals, what exactly can they sell, and to whom with what, and why? Pet rocks planning to make a come back, because that will be the only option you have? If there are no pets at the stores, because PETA reached it's goals, then what the heck will keep pet shops in business? Designer clothes for pet rocks? Yeah, shut down wholesalers so pet shops can't get live animals to sell. Anyone seriously think that will come to a good end?

And then when they go after the small time breeders who might just have one dead mouse or one water dish with crap an hour old in it, won't things be getting just ducky then? After all, won't these people ALSO be selling to the nasty pet shops still trying to stay in business?

Seriously people, wholesalers of animals are NOT part time hobbyists who dote on their animals and take them out to play every day. So stop thinking of them as being such. They are a BUSINESS. They have to work with large numbers to make a profit. They deal with losses and unpleasantries as best they can, but it's all just part of that type of business. If you get just one out of one hundred that dies, gets sick or gets injured, and multiply those statistics by 10,000, then you can see how some PETA spies with hidden cameras can get this kind of emotionally charged video to try to further their cause.

But instead of seeing it for what it is, no, people will instead want to burn someone else at the stake because they have no concept of what the reality is and only have their own experience of the handful of animals they are taking care of to use as a yardstick of how they think everyone else MUST be.
 
Excellent point and something we all should contemplate before we join the lynch mob ... anybody have an idea what % of animals PETA "rescues" actually make it into new homes ... lot less than the % of animals that get sold retail or wholesale by RBM.
 
Curious..... I'm sure I am going to hate posting this later on, but right now this all just really rubbed me in a way obviously different from many others responding here.

How exactly did PETA get the run of the place at RBM and how long were they there? Was PETA purposely allowed access or did they get some people hired there specifically to do that obvious smear job? How many did they say they have already "exposed"? Six? Well, gee, now why do you suppose they are doing this? And do you think perhaps their choices of which videos to show were entirely random and non-biased?


I would think that PETA people were hired to pull this off and neglect proper care. The facility and set-up looks pretty good and certainly they are showing off the very worse. My bet is most of the place was relatively clean and that's what's not being shown in the video.
 
PETA being involved did/does bother me.
I have absolutely *nothing* good to say, about them, or most of (if not all of) their agenda/s.
When I had heard their message, toward the end of the video, I had to roll my eyes because they do have an agenda that goes beyond simply exposing bad situations in the hopes of better conditions for animals &/or at animal related businesses.

....
 
I wasn't defending them ... only conveying my experience with them (RBM), as well as, PETA ... worked in humane field for 20 years .... also I believe there is always at least two sides to every story ... we have only heard one so far.
 
PETA states that they have "submitted its evidence to local authorities for investigation".
Guess we'll see if anything comes of that.

....
 
Curious..... I'm sure I am going to hate posting this later on, but right now this all just really rubbed me in a way obviously different from many others responding here.

How exactly did PETA get the run of the place at RBM and how long were they there? Was PETA purposely allowed access or did they get some people hired there specifically to do that obvious smear job? How many did they say they have already "exposed"? Six? Well, gee, now why do you suppose they are doing this? And do you think perhaps their choices of which videos to show were entirely random and non-biased?

Heck, any moderate to large concern who works with live animals is going to have deaths, injuries, dirty cages, mistakes, accidents and neglectful people, or an insufficient number of people working for them. It's the nature of the business. Even small pet shops are NOT going to be able to avoid mortality, sick animals, or dirty cages. Animals die. Animals get sick. Animals crap. Cages get dirty 30 seconds after you clean them. Unless you only have one single animal and monitor it 24/7/365 it's cage will get dirty and stay that way till you look in on it and clean it. How many people here have cleaned a cage and then watched the animal take a dump right after you put it back in that clean cage? Multiply that times 10,000 or more, which will be the case at any and all wholesalers and what do you have when some people LOOKING for such things in the worst possible light start taking video and photos..

So does that mean there should be NO wholesalers of animals? Let me know how that works out for this industry. Yes, there are ugly sides to it, but unless I am very mistaken, you just cannot have the good side without the bad. Do I feel sorry for the animals, yes I do. But I'll feel even sorrier to see the day come when YOU cannot have any animals at all for pets or other reasons. Which is exactly where this is headed if PETA gets what it wants.

All in all an interesting video if nothing else for what PETA's obvious goal is. So I get the impression that we all should jump on the PETA bandwagon now? Go to 2:50 at the end of the video and listen to their goals. Sure let's all get worked up into a lynch mob and help them reach their goals. Boycott pet shops that sell animals! Get ALL animals out of the hands of everyone? And we are going to start with wholesalers! Yeah, that's the ticket!

If pet shops no longer sell animals, what exactly can they sell, and to whom with what, and why? Pet rocks planning to make a come back, because that will be the only option you have? If there are no pets at the stores, because PETA reached it's goals, then what the heck will keep pet shops in business? Designer clothes for pet rocks? Yeah, shut down wholesalers so pet shops can't get live animals to sell. Anyone seriously think that will come to a good end?

And then when they go after the small time breeders who might just have one dead mouse or one water dish with crap an hour old in it, won't things be getting just ducky then? After all, won't these people ALSO be selling to the nasty pet shops still trying to stay in business?

Seriously people, wholesalers of animals are NOT part time hobbyists who dote on their animals and take them out to play every day. So stop thinking of them as being such. They are a BUSINESS. They have to work with large numbers to make a profit. They deal with losses and unpleasantries as best they can, but it's all just part of that type of business. If you get just one out of one hundred that dies, gets sick or gets injured, and multiply those statistics by 10,000, then you can see how some PETA spies with hidden cameras can get this kind of emotionally charged video to try to further their cause.

But instead of seeing it for what it is, no, people will instead want to burn someone else at the stake because they have no concept of what the reality is and only have their own experience of the handful of animals they are taking care of to use as a yardstick of how they think everyone else MUST be.

First off, this thread is about Reptiles By Mack not PETA. I dont care to get involved arguing in circles about what PETA wants people to think they are versus what they really are and ultimately what their goals are. PETA sucks period.

This thread is about Reptiles By Mack and how they keep and treat their inventory plain and simple. I am sure all the Reptiles By Mack supporters over the years feel betrayed and deceived to see what their money and support actually goes toward. Infact, I am sure you Rich have an uneasy feeling in your gut after watching that video and to know that you have accepted hundreds if not thousands of dollars from RBM over the years in advertising.

I understand that mortality is part of dealing with livestock as do others, but the scale of suffering and death of what was shown is undeniable and unacceptable. The whole situation was compounded by John Mack sitting in this thread for almost an hour with nothing to say. If it were me and this whole situation was a ruse by PETA supporters I would have immediately explained the situation and then had an employee walk through my facility with their smart phone recording healthy animals in clean cages then uploaded it here. 2 pretty easy things to do in this day and age. Oh and if all reptile wholesalers went out of business I could care less. Then everyone would be forced to buy from breeders, both petshops and private collectors. Sure there are some crappy breeders out there but most are not. Can the same thing be said about large wholesalers? How is that a bad thing? Just my 2cents
 
Just because PETA is discussed does not mean that everybody is going to defend, or are defending, the "breeder".

....

You're judged by the company you keep.
Petsmart treats it's animals like crap and apparently RBM treats there
animals like crap.
Who cares who the messenger is. RBM didn't deny the video and
anyone who justifies or makes excuses for that video is either in denial
or just as :censored: as the other two companies involved. :thumbsup:
 
You're judged by the company you keep.
Petsmart treats it's animals like crap and apparently RBM treats there
animals like crap.
Who cares who the messenger is. RBM didn't deny the video and
anyone who justifies or makes excuses for that video is either in denial
or just as :censored: as the other two companies involved. :thumbsup:

Your response does not fit with my comment.

Also, BTW, I have not defended RBM where this is concerned.
My heart broke, for those animals, when I saw the video. It was horrible.

....
 
Yes, Petsmart uses RBM as a supplier, but I don't know if that's true across the whole US. Generally speaking, when I worked for Petsmart (two years in animal care) we did absolutely everything we could to treat the animals well, get them, and sell them to people who'd give them good care. Generally, our shipments from RBM were healthy and well packed.

4 of my snakes are RBM animals, and I've had no problems with them. We did sometimes have batches of baby beardies that didn't thrive, and it was heartbreaking any time we couldn't save an animal. Frankly, part of the reason I quit is I no longer felt I could put the best interests of the animals first- but that's neither here nor there in regards to RBM.

The video was awful, but I believe Rich does have a point that in that large of numbers, statistically you will have more sick or injured animals. On the other hand, in the past PETA have planted their own people to abuse or neglect animals so they could film it an "expose" businesses.

Their ultimate goal is that we have no animals in contact with humans. No meat, no milk, no eggs, no pets, zoos, circuses. Were it up to them, they would snatch all of your cats and dogs and fish and reptiles and euthanize them. That agenda makes them suspect in my eyes. Can we say for certain that what they're claiming to expose is the truth?

That in no way excuses the treatment of those animals, inhumane methods of euthanasia, lack of medical care, or insufficient water and food or dirty enclosures. It'd behoove RBM to speak up about the situation, or show counter video of a clean facility and healthy animals. Were it me under fire, I would be doing whatever I could to show this is not a normal part of the facility.

It's also possible there could be a lawyer involved who'd tell them to keep quiet in the meantime.

Yeah, I'm disappointed and unhappy because I defended them, even though the vast majority of our animals were in great condition on arrival and while in our care.
 
Well, gee, now why do you suppose they are doing this? And do you think perhaps their choices of which videos to show were entirely random and non-biased?

All in all an interesting video if nothing else for what PETA's obvious goal is. So I get the impression that we all should jump on the PETA bandwagon now?

I don't think many people, specifically on a reptile website, would support PETA and I would hope the majority know and understand what their agenda is (to end all pet 'ownership'). Of course the video is highly edited to only show the worst things. Of course there are going to randomly be dirty cages and deaths at a major wholesaler/importer. There were things in the video that I personally didn't think were that big of a deal (the fresh shipments of turtles in crates 'desperate to get out', the frogs shipped in bottles) but other things were disturbing to me, such as the glue traps and bearded dragon festering wound, super skinny bearded.

I hope that we get to hear a response from the owner.
 
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