Blocked glottis on snake -any advice urgently welcome

[hupababy_83]

Sending good vibes and prayers from Northern California!


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[bcr229]

The steam treatment isn't a bad idea though as you pointed out it isn't a cure, it just helps to alleviate congestion and makes it easier for the snake to clear itself out by keeping the mucous soft. It's like when you're sick and you take a hot steamy shower, you usually end up blowing a lot of stuff out of your sinuses. Sounds disgusting but it helps with the stuffy head.

 

[Helenthereef]

The steam treatment isn't a bad idea though as you pointed out it isn't a cure, it just helps to alleviate congestion and makes it easier for the snake to clear itself out by keeping the mucous soft. It's like when you're sick and you take a hot steamy shower, you usually end up blowing a lot of stuff out of your sinuses. Sounds disgusting but it helps with the stuffy head.

It did certainly seemed to ease his breathing last night, so I suppose it's regular sauna treatment for a while..... The mucus thread is disgusting -
you can see in the photo he was all snotty after he'd been hissing and wheezing - but I suppose it's better out than in!

 

[Helenthereef]

Also I'm now pretty certain he has stuck eyecaps as well, as you can see in the photo above. Never had that before either - going to try running him through a damp towel after steaming - any hints there?

 

[Helenthereef]

Now almost a week since his last bout of wheezing and he seems fine again. We have 3 more Baytril injections to go over the next 6 days, then I suppose we'll just see if it comes back or not.

I'm still giving him daily 30 minute steamy saunas, and handling him for an hour or more when I inject him every 2 days. He's reasonably active when I get him out, lots of tongue flicking and slow explorations. I'm hoping that making him move around (gently) every couple of days is going to help too - I imagine that sitting still in his quarantine tub allows mucus to pool in his lungs.

He refused food 4 days ago, but I'm going to try again tonight.

One good thing, one of the other vets at the practice came back off holiday this week and says that they can get cultures done at the government farm animal lab, so I now have a swab and nutrient agar tube on hand. If he does wheeze and produce mucus again I stand a chance of getting a culture done to ID the bacteria. Not sure what to do if it's not Baytril-sensitive though - the vet cant get Fortaz/Ceftazidime, but I might go and talk to my very understanding doctor....

In the meantime I think he needs a break from injections - for the first 3 weeks he was very passive, but this week he's objecting a bit to the needle. Maybe a good sign if he's reacting more, or maybe his sides are sore, even though I vary the injection sites as recommended. Only 3 more to go!

 

[bcr229]

One good thing, one of the other vets at the practice came back off holiday this week and says that they can get cultures done at the government farm animal lab, so I now have a swab and nutrient agar tube on hand. If he does wheeze and produce mucus again I stand a chance of getting a culture done to ID the bacteria. Not sure what to do if it's not Baytril-sensitive though - the vet cant get Fortaz/Ceftazidime, but I might go and talk to my very understanding doctor....

Do you have a compounding pharmacist available? They do more than just dispense pills, they actually mix up the medicines on-site. I had to use one when my dog was switched from phenobarbital to potassium bromide for seizures. The phenol was a small pill, the KBr was a liquid in a bottle that I put in his food.

Otherwise if Fortaz isn't an option I've had snakes prescribed Naxcel.

 

[Helenthereef]

Do you have a compounding pharmacist available? They do more than just dispense pills, they actually mix up the medicines on-site. I had to use one when my dog was switched from phenobarbital to potassium bromide for seizures. The phenol was a small pill, the KBr was a liquid in a bottle that I put in his food.

Otherwise if Fortaz isn't an option I've had snakes prescribed Naxcel.

I'm not sure! But I can go and ask my regular pharmacist. I'll look up Naxcel as well, thanks a lot.

 

[BlueCrowned]

Good luck with your snake, sorry you're having so much trouble!

 

[Helenthereef]

Good luck with your snake, sorry you're having so much trouble!

Thanks Toby, it helps a lot to talk it out over here though.

Well, while he hasn't bounced straight back to great health, yesterday was better than the day before and I'm hoping today will be better again.

I finished the 30-day course of antibiotic injections just over a week ago (and just in time, I think, he was beginning to object to them, and I know how grotty I felt when I had to take a long-term antibiotic course), and then I had to go away for 5 days. I left him, feeling a bit apprehensive, but hoping that 5 uninterrupted days might brighten him up a bit.

When I got back he was not looking great - lying very flat and lethargic, certainly not interested in food, and very jumpy when touched (unusual for him). I had decided that I was going to try getting his stuck eye-caps off with cotton buds and forceps, and, as he has now lost 400 gms (13% of his normal 3 kg body weight), force feed him egg yolk through a flexible pipette. These are measures I don't take lightly, so I was not feeling too cheerful as I got everything ready.

I was VERY happy when I opened his tub though, as I found he was already half-way through trying to shed. I abandoned my plans, and instead gave him a 30 minute soak followed by a towel bath, and managed to get his skin off, including eye-caps. His eyes are now clear and moving, and I think it's the first time he's been able to see clearly for weeks. He also passed a large amount of urate and a little bit of faeces as I was making him move around so that's a good sign too.

Today he has been actively moving around his tank, and drinking quite a lot, so tonight I am going to try feeding him again. Hopefully being able to see the food will make a difference. If not, he's getting egg yolk whether he likes it or not.

I'll update again tomorrow. Thanks to all for asking!

 

[BlueCrowned]

It sounds like he is on the right track! Fingers crossed

 

[bcr229]

Can you get stuff delivered from Amazon? Antibiotics kill off good gut flora in addition to the bacteria that cause RI. I've found that NutriBac can help snakes recover afterward.

https://www.amazon.com/Nutribac-Die...VVAM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516243505&sr=8-1

 

[Helenthereef]

Can you get stuff delivered from Amazon? Antibiotics kill off good gut flora in addition to the bacteria that cause RI. I've found that NutriBac can help snakes recover afterward.

https://www.amazon.com/Nutribac-Die...VVAM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516243505&sr=8-1

Just checked up and they do say they can deliver Nutribac to Fiji (not everything can be), so I'll give it a try - although it can take anything from 3 days to 3 months to get here. I did have Reptaid on hand for a while but it must be pretty elderly (if I can even find it). Thanks for the idea.

 

[Helenthereef]

HE ATE!

I know we're not out of the woods yet, but last night he took 3 smallish pieces of chicken wing, slowly but voluntarily. I am VERY happy not to have had to force feed him. This morning he's lying flat, hopefully harnessing all his energy for digestion.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

awesome news!

 

[Helenthereef]

Thanks April. I'm just crossing all fingers and toes that this is a cure and not just a break in symptoms...

Researching around it seems he has had pneumonia, which can result in a glottal discharge as exudate moves from the lungs. He had none of the symptoms associated with an upper respiratory tract infection, which is what I see most commonly described as an RI. Now just hoping that it was bacterial in origin, properly sensitive to Baytril, and that he has no secondary infections. I guess I'll just have to wait and see (and also hope than none of the others develop the same thing).

Still no clue where he got it, although we did have them all out for an educational session with kids from a local conservation organisation about a month before he first started gaping and wheezing. We did have everyone using hand sanitiser, but kids are such a hothouse of colds and flu that I suppose it's not impossible.

I can't find any reference to humans transmitting diseases to reptiles, but I've seen Psuedomonas, Klebsiella, Aeromonas, E. coli, and Proteus species of bacteria listed as agents in reptile pneumonia. These families do exist in humans, just not sure of exact species.

 

[Helenthereef]

Aaand... we're back on the rollercoaster. Today he was wheezing and gaping again. Once more, after another hour in the "sauna", he was pushing mucus out of his glottis. I managed to get some onto the swab I was given by the vet, so it's off for a culture tomorrow.

I'll post again as/when we get any result, I'm starting to feel like I'm jinxing the good news!

 

[richardhind1972]

Fingers crossed the vet can find what strain it is and give you the correct antibiotics for you then Helen
Cheers rich


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[Helenthereef]

Fingers crossed the vet can find what strain it is and give you the correct antibiotics for you then Helen
Cheers rich

Thanks Rich. It will take 2 - 3 weeks to get results, so I just have to hope he keeps eating and doesn't succumb by then. There's also no guarantee that we'll be able to get more advanced antibiotics in country even after that.

At the moment I'm pinning my hopes on native vigour and basic nursing. I'm going to keep giving him 30 minute steam baths and take him out every evening in the hopes of encouraging him to expel the mucus from his lungs, on the principle that in humans pneumonia is fatal mostly in sedentary invalids.

I've just read that it's possible that RI's may occur more in snakes kept in tubs than in those in larger enclosures, as those who move around more obviously use their lungs more. I don't think this has been proven, but it makes sense to me, and as he's currently in a smaller quarantine tub instead of his normal larger enclosure, I want to make him move around every day while we fight this.

He's survived this for 2 months, so he was obviously pretty strong to begin with, and I'm hoping this will continue to work in his favour. So far the other 4 seem fine, so I'm also concentrating on quarantine and enclosure sterilisation. What fun!

 

[richardhind1972]

Well good luck Helen and keep up the hard work ,hopefully it will pay off


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[hotlips]

I once had a newly acquired (shipped to me) ball python that had an infection of the glottis, but I returned him under guarantee so I don't know how or even if he was treated for that, much less whether it worked. Sorry.

One other thing occurs to me though: could it be some kind of parasitic worms? I know snakes can get lung worms. Have you ever (de-)wormed him? I've had a w/c snake with roundworms before. One word of caution: giving meds to deworm a snake can cause them all to die off & plug vital organs, resulting in death. (though if he can't breathe now, it's a slow death...ugh) but when I treated for worms, I used a somewhat low dosage, and repeated it several times...that was successful and NOT fatal to the snake. Just a thought?