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warning on bakers boas!

David Reid said:
Calling a snake a live only feeder and a turd, is a FAR cry from saying it is a picky eater.
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And my opinion is this.

Maybe that animal WAS picky for Live prey, and would only eat one, or the other at any given time, But. it DID eat. That would explain quite a bit to me.

If that was his experience with the snake at the time/during the time he had it, then i really cant blame him for the choice of words there.
 
One of the first things I noticed in the pictures of the dead boa was the lack of hide areas in the enclosure. I don't know if this was the actual set-up, but it was pretty stark IMO, especially for a problem feeder. I would have covered the entire floor with some substrate, like un-milled sphagnum or something, and added several places for security. Assuming there were subsequent calls as to what tricks there were to get this boa to eat between Cory and Robert I am curious as to what advice was given by Robert.
 
If live feeder only constitutes a poor feeder, or picky eater, than all of my Ball Pythons are picky eaters....lame, lame, lame. If you are selling a poor feeder, or picky eater, you have to be more specific than, "Have live available and it is a turd sometimes."
 
:iagree:David makes a good point in saying to let your newly recieved snake settle into its new enclousure for at least a couple days before offering a meal.

Mooing Tricycle said:
See... now you just said something silly.

Why?

I feed my animals the day i get them! Never had an issue with it!

Pretty lame comment right there.
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Ed, at the same time, if a snake is a healthy snake, not in the blue, a good feeder, and a snake that is 100 grams, and it fasted a few days to a week prior to shipping, if you offer it food the day you get it, and it eats, where is the harm? To me, most people sell baby snakes, most people feed their babies every 3 days give or take, and if your shipping plans do not go exactly as planned, the baby could be without food for a week or so. If it is hungry, and eats the day it came in, where is the harm?

Ed, if you reread the post I made, and the follow up Baker made, I basically said if I sell a snake, it will eat for you the day you get it, meaning, it will eat the day you get it, and it is a good eater. Baker tried to turn that around, and say that anyone saying that you should feed a snake the day you get it should not own snakes. I made it clear that I usually feed or offer food the day after or two days after getting a snake, but I have fed the day I get it on a few occasions, for various reasons, and really see no harm in doing this.

Dave
 
No harm, most snakes will eat right out of the shipping box. I have always suggested that its probably better to let the snake adjust to its new home for a day or 2 before offering a meal.

David Reid said:
Ed, at the same time, if a snake is a healthy snake, not in the blue, a good feeder, and a snake that is 100 grams, and it fasted a few days to a week prior to shipping, if you offer it food the day you get it, and it eats, where is the harm? To me, most people sell baby snakes, most people feed their babies every 3 days give or take, and if your shipping plans do not go exactly as planned, the baby could be without food for a week or so. If it is hungry, and eats the day it came in, where is the harm?
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I dont agree with Mr Baker on his views about someone should not own a snake if they feed the same day recieved. some will feed right away, some dont. I dont agree with anyone selling a snake that has to have pinkies pumped into it to keep it alive. I normally dont feed a snake same day recieved but a healthy snake will eat same day recieved.

Boas are voracious feeders that will eat anytime, almost any place. A boa that has to be fed pinky size mice to keep it alive .....somethings just wrong.
Ed, if you reread the post I made, and the follow up Baker made, I basically said if I sell a snake, it will eat for you the day you get it, meaning, it will eat the day you get it, and it is a good eater. Baker tried to turn that around, and say that anyone saying that you should feed a snake the day you get it should not own snakes. I made it clear that I usually feed or offer food the day after or two days after getting a snake, but I have fed the day I get it on a few occasions, for various reasons, and really see no harm in doing this.

Dave
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Ed Clark said:
No harm, most snakes will eat right out of the shipping box. I have always suggested that its probably better to let the snake adjust to its new home for a day or 2 before offering a meal.
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That depends entirely on the animal, where it came from and how it got there. An animal that was shipped, I agree, it should be given a few days to settle in. The stress of shipping, even properly packaged problem free shipping, can leave them more inclined to regurge.

I dont agree with anyone selling a snake that has to have pinkies pumped into it to keep it alive.
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There's a big difference between being pumped and having them offered and taken. Worlds of difference between chuck it in feeding, tease feeding and force feeding. And with an honest representation, no problem selling an animal under any of those conditions. The problem here is the phone calls; the way the feeding part was represented months ago would be important in knowing how the feeding problem was represented.

And of course knowing what the actual feeding approach was before it was sold. A live pink wiggled on some tongs for fifteen-twenty minutes that's then taken is tease feeding. Not force feeding.

Boas are voracious feeders that will eat anytime, almost any place. A boa that has to be fed pinky size mice to keep it alive .....somethings just wrong.
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Yes and no. Boas constrictors are usually strong feeders that will eat when presented something they recognize as food and are being kept under appropriate conditions. A picky neonate can turn into a strong feeder if it's worked with and if all the bases are covered to encourage it's ready feeding.

If it was a slow or picky feeder that turned into a non-feeder, the catalyst should be looked for. The obvious one here- different owner with no experience handling problem eaters.
 
Seamus Haley said:
Yes and no. Boas constrictors are usually strong feeders that will eat when presented something they recognize as food and are being kept under appropriate conditions. A picky neonate can turn into a strong feeder if it's worked with and if all the bases are covered to encourage it's ready feeding.

If it was a slow or picky feeder that turned into a non-feeder, the catalyst should be looked for. The obvious one here- different owner with no experience handling problem eaters.
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And what I mean by this... is that the "something is wrong" could very well be the conditions it was kept in when it stopped eating entirely; an incorrect temperature, overhandling, exposure to toxins, a stressful environment.

It could also be some kind of subtle defect in the digestive system or something terribly wrong with the behavior and instincts... but these are a lot less common than keeper error.
 
We as breeders recognize picky feeders early on in their lives, these snakes are set aside to be worked with and maybe turn them around and transform them into strong feeders. its actually not hard to do this, but it takes time, sometimes these picky feeder are older snakes before they become dependable feeders.

Selling one too soon only presents problems for the new owner as they do not know the snake as the breeder would.

Thats the reason I say not to sell picky feeders.

Seamus Haley said:
A picky neonate can turn into a strong feeder if it's worked with and if all the bases are covered to encourage it's ready feeding.

If it was a slow or picky feeder that turned into a non-feeder, the catalyst should be looked for. The obvious one here- different owner with no experience handling problem eaters.
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Blown Over?

bakersboas site specifically says:

"Buyer must contact me within the first 24 hours after they receive the animal for a refund if they are unsatisfied. After 24 hours the boas is yours, and you are fully responsible. I will not provide a (full or partial) refund or give credit after 24 hours."

It can be said that the 2nd party might have contacted robert prior to 24 hours, but its been 3096 hours later that the snake died still unreturned. Going to point two.

"All sales are final."

It's difficult because the two parties seem to have a relationship when transaction was made but fine print is fine print. Good luck.

I once bought a Albino rtb, went to pick it up, i put him in a sack and as i was tying off the end, he said, "Let me show u an easy way." he tied it and handed to me. I plopped him in my passenger side with a heat pack under it. On my drive home, he got out cus the knot wasnt strong and havent found him since. (It was a 2 hour drive and i didnt notice) Ripped apart my whole dash trying to find him. Never did. This situation is a bit different because it was my stupidity that could lead to losing him.

I feel for you. Thats a huge chunk of change to lose and a sweet looking boa.

-Jin Young Kim
 
I'm still uncomfortable with the advise given after the second week of the boa not eating. Who here that breeds and sells snakes would tell a customer to force fed a snake that they just bought two weeks ago. That tells me that he knew that the snake would not eat voluntarily. I have had a few people that have bought from me that had acclimation problems that resulted in a snake not wanting to eat. My first advise is to get a complete description of there set up including how they measure temps. If he knew the snake would voluntarily take live pinky mice, why jump to force feeding so fast?

If the breeder (who I'm guessing was keeping the snake in ideal conditions) could not get the snake on track after 5-6 months, why was he selling it? I don't buy the idea that the snake fed OK with the right food and the right conditions. If so it should have been a good deal larger and at least taking hopper mice if mot weanlings.

Most of my experience with non feeders comes from colubrids, but I'm sure boas aren't much different. And I know that individuals that need to be assist fed to keep them alive always seem to stay about the size of a hatching until they either turn around or die. Even poor feeders that only eat every other week or so grow at a decent pace.
 
Cory has not come across well here at all, inconsistencies etc.

The boa was not a flawless snake as we all expect when buying a snake online, Robert instructed Cory to use a pinky pump on that boa because he knew it would not feed voluntarily.

Now Robert is trying to hide behind his terms?

Jink122 said:
bakersboas site specifically says:

"Buyer must contact me within the first 24 hours after they receive the animal for a refund if they are unsatisfied. After 24 hours the boas is yours, and you are fully responsible. I will not provide a (full or partial) refund or give credit after 24 hours."

It can be said that the 2nd party might have contacted robert prior to 24 hours, but its been 3096 hours later that the snake died still unreturned. Going to point two.

"All sales are final."

It's difficult because the two parties seem to have a relationship when transaction was made but fine print is fine print. Good luck.
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Good post Matt, my thoughts exactly.

garweft said:
I'm still uncomfortable with the advise given after the second week of the boa not eating. Who here that breeds and sells snakes would tell a customer to force fed a snake that they just bought two weeks ago. That tells me that he knew that the snake would not eat voluntarily. I have had a few people that have bought from me that had acclimation problems that resulted in a snake not wanting to eat. My first advise is to get a complete description of there set up including how they measure temps. If he knew the snake would voluntarily take live pinky mice, why jump to force feeding so fast?

If the breeder (who I'm guessing was keeping the snake in ideal conditions) could not get the snake on track after 5-6 months, why was he selling it? I don't buy the idea that the snake fed OK with the right food and the right conditions. If so it should have been a good deal larger and at least taking hopper mice if mot weanlings.
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Did I miss where Robert admitted to advising the buyer to purchase a pinky pump and force feed the snake?



I cull non-feeders after their health starts to deteriorate...I do not force feed at all. This is not only to prevent disappointed buyers (like in this case), but because I don't view non-feeders as healthy animal. As breeders, it is our responsibility to produce the best, healthiest animals for our customers...A non-feeder is neither healthy or the best example of its species.
 
Here ya go Steph.

far north boas said:
I did notify Robert within two weeks that the boa was not eating and he talked me into force feeding wich did not work. I again called Robert, he suggested I invest in a pinkie pump and inject them into his stomach. Which was successfull, but the snake never fed on its own. I called Robert again, and said it was still not eating on his own.
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