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Info on record / Debbie Prince

Thanks Wolfy. Maybe I'm missing something again. I've always been under the impression that doing a blood smear is a waste of time, considering it is a far long shot to diagnose IBD via a blood smear. But to get on with it....

If you do a bit of research on it and also check out who Dr Jacobsen is you would probably see that you do not know as much as he .
There is also an archived show on Reptile Radio featuring Dr Stahl who touches on the subject at the end .
Toni
 
If you do a bit of research on it and also check out who Dr Jacobsen is you would probably see that you do not know as much as he .
There is also an archived show on Reptile Radio featuring Dr Stahl who touches on the subject at the end .
Toni


I've read all about Dr. Jacobson. ;) But has he seen your snakes?
 
Where in the world is it "fact" that reptile vets must first check with a blood smear?? You seem to be assuming quite a bit....

I had been reading this entire thread waiting to read that a liver biopsy or other tissue biopsy was done, since I too have read about those methods, along with Alicia apparently.

first off i am not assumming any thing what i said you little girl is you some times can find ibd in a blood test your screen name fist you well little girl so i think you should grow up this thread is about debbie refunding money to toni not what a blood test tells you by the way are you a vet i dont think you are
 
first off i am not assumming any thing what i said you little girl is you some times can find ibd in a blood test your screen name fist you well little girl so i think you should grow up this thread is about debbie refunding money to toni not what a blood test tells you by the way are you a vet i dont think you are


...... lol, okay dude, you win. I know when I've been bested. :rolleyes:
 
John Manser

Before this thread dies a natural death I think I need to post a comment. I sold the subject Caramel female to Debbie Prince around 10/08. Debbie was great to deal with and I really hate/don't think she packed the Caramel female with existing symptoms later reported by Toni. I do however feel that something did happen in shipping to cause the issues. I suspect this is related to overheating or oxygen deprevation, or crushing, or who knows?. Why the other snakes in box were fine is a small mystery, but not unheard of. Over the years I have received two seperate shipments where all snakes were fine except one. I think sometimes the weight of other snakes keeps one from expanding it's lungs.
Regardless, I happened to have sold several snakes to Toni at the same time she received the shipment from Debbie. Toni did contact me to let me know my shipment arrived on time and everything looked great, however she did mention how limp and out of sorts the Caramel was acting from Debbie and seemed very concerned.

I really don't have anything else to add and my main reason for posting is a comment made on page 14 by Ed Clark to the effect that, I sold Debbie Prince an animal that should have been at the bottom of a freezer. Ed that sounded like a groundless personal attack, but I am hopeing you did not mean that the way I read it. I have spent way to much effort building a reputation for integrity to see something like that in print and not say something. I assure you if anyone ever receives something from me they are not happy with they can send it back and my policy is to pay return shipping. I can only assume and hope you were trying to reference known kinking issues with Caramels.

Regarding defects in Caramels. I bought one of the first het males NERD released and that was a VERY long time ago (1998?). Sure enough I bred him to one of his daughters and got kinks. I still have the two Caramel offspring as kinked pets. I kept his normal looking daughters (50% poss. hets) and years latter purchased a Caramel offspring from a totally unrelated imported male. So, in 08 I produced 11 Caramels and every one was perfect and 08 was the first year I ever sold Caramels. How many people would stick with a project over 10 years trying to make it right before they ever sold their first Caramels? Yes, the Caramels have issues, but with solid outbreeding you can make them right. Anyone that purchases Caramels needs to continue this process and not try and rush things. By the way the two kinked offspring I kept are huge and as healthy as can be. So far I have never seen any nerve issues in Caramels.

That's it. I spoke my piece.

John Manser
 
first off i am not assumming any thing what i said you little girl is you some times can find ibd in a blood test your screen name fist you well little girl so i think you should grow up this thread is about debbie refunding money to toni not what a blood test tells you by the way are you a vet i dont think you are

Connie should "grow up"?? Lmao.. Your boss "fist you well" also I'm sure..
This thread is So funny! I love it....:rofl:
 
Well Tosha, that wasn't the way I read it. The first post she had specifically stated that Debbie could possibly have IBD in her collection. How is that not coming right out and saying a seller has IBD in their collection?

And then to post a note from a vet that says the symptoms are along the same lines as IBD. That's all but diagnosing it AS IBD ...

That sounds like a very damaging post to make as a first for a BOI thread. :shrug01:


Actually no - her first several posts are all correspondences sent between the two parties and information pertaining to her side of the story. Yes included is the email to Debbie where she says the snake looks like it has IBD - if you got a snake exhibiting signs of IBD I would guarantee you'd be saying as much to the seller - also included is the crappy shipping packaging and her statements that it could also be heat exhaustion.

And as I said Debbie's complete lack of integrity is what came out in the process and not really the possibility that she might have IBD in her collection. :yesnod:
 
Actually no - her first several posts are all correspondences sent between the two parties and information pertaining to her side of the story. Yes included is the email to Debbie where she says the snake looks like it has IBD - if you got a snake exhibiting signs of IBD I would guarantee you'd be saying as much to the seller - also included is the crappy shipping packaging and her statements that it could also be heat exhaustion.

And as I said Debbie's complete lack of integrity is what came out in the process and not really the possibility that she might have IBD in her collection. :yesnod:

I do see what you are pointing out Tosha, and I do have to agree that the condition is clearly alarming, for both the seller and buyer.
 
Connie should "grow up"?? Lmao.. Your boss "fist you well" also I'm sure..
This thread is So funny! I love it....:rofl:

jas i think the toxic new jersey water messed you up thats why when i lived in philadelphi i never went to jersey lmao
 
OK, this is going to be my last post for now. I’m stepping off the merry go round, the cat and mouse game is over. I’ve not read any posts since I posted last, and I won’t read any more of them. Please don’t take that as a sign that I don’t care, but for my own mental health, I’ve got to step back. In reality, no matter what I say or do at this point, people have already made up their minds about this situation, whatever way that is, and no amount of back and forth is going to change that.

Though this ordeal started on February 19, I didn’t receive the vet report until 6 weeks after the snake was received by Toni. So though to some it may seem I’ve just sat on my laurels and done nothing, that’s just not the case. I have tried to be reasonable and respectful about this from the beginning, prior to this even becoming a BOI issue. I’ve asked for Toni to be respectful, which she has not been. I have NEVER EVER stated that I wouldn’t stand behind this snake, that I wouldn’t make it right, etc., as is shown by my numerous emails stating that I would replace the snake if I had the vet’s report – which was one of the options Toni wanted in the beginning. She no longer wants this, and I have now offered to sell one of my current collection and give her the money from that sale. She accepted that offer. It was suggested to me that I call Toni to work out the details of this transaction. I quite frankly don’t want anything not in writing, nor any private contact with her, so I am going to make my last offer here.

*I will sell one of my current snakes as the said “replacement snake”

*After the sale of the replacement (once that buyer has received and is happy with their snake), and sooner if I can, I will send Toni a MO for $1500.

*I will post a picture of said MO in this thread. I will send it out priority mail with delivery confirmation. I request that Toni post in this thread that she received said MO.

*As I am 100% confident that I didn’t send a sick snake, I will take the snake back. It will be quarantined (as any new acquisition would be) from the rest of my collection. Toni can choose to either send the snake now if she doesn’t want to be responsible for it until then, or she can send it when she receives the $1500. If the snake dies in her care, she is to send the body to me and I will have it necropsied with my own vet and post the report. It is her choice. If the snake dies in my care, I will have it necropsied and post the report. If she doesn’t, I will post pictures in a few months.

*If Toni accepts this offer, I would like ONE email or PM from her stating the address to mail the MO to, NOTHING ELSE. No snide comments, no accusations, nothing. When I receive this email, I will email her ONLY the address to have the snake shipped to. I request that the snake be sent back to me on the next Mon, Tues, or Wed after receiving said MO, and that I receive an email stating ONLY that the snake is being shipped and what day it is shipped, no other comments. That will be my last email contact with her.

*If I receive ANY nasty emails, phone calls, etc. from either Toni or any of Toni’s “friends”, then I consider this a done deal. I won’t be treated that way, sorry.

*Toni has 72 hours to respond to this offer. If she decides not to take it, then I will consider this over and done with.

For the multitudes of support and kindness I’ve received privately, I can’t thank you enough. It’s people like you that make the reptile community great. :)

Debbie ,
As stated prior you have 10 buisness days before I proceed . I have emailed you my snail mail address .
We are agreeable to 1500 in m.o. for the cost of the snake .


As for the vet bill and the rest I cannot say we will be settled after that but certainly we agree on the refund as stated numerous times .

There is still a question of IBD .I dont take that lightly ..I spoke at length today with the vet . The animal continues to go upside down and twist around . We have a lot at risk here including especially the car glow het pr that was shipped in the same box ...and our quite expensive beloved collection ..
We have already agreed earlier today... prior to reading your post that we were going to proceed with the necropsy . As I told you per email within the 1st wk of recieving this animal ...any loss we suffer due to exposure by this animal will be included in any further potential litigation .
I can update you asap on any other amendment but certainly the 1500 is acceptable for the cost of the snake and would show you are trying... once it is received . I cannot at this time say for certain we are safe and agree to this as a final settlement . Will let everyone know once we receive the final results of the biopsy(s).
I appreciate you offering to send the refund and hope this is over soon .
Thanks ,
Toni
 
jas i like you man i am just messing with you but you know debbie is at falt here

Yes I do but you dont see me trying to bash her skull in BEFORE she has a chance to make this right.. May sound weird But put yourself in HER shoes for a second.. This is just as hard on her as it is Toni. But, Noone seems to care about that huh? I'm Really ashamed at some of you people. Your treating this like you would treat a real known SCUMBAG. I say to everyone Not envolved to BACK OFF for a bit, Let Toni and Debbie have some ALONE time and see what happens. If Things dont go right by then. Then go for the throat. See if I care. But until then. You all look STUPID..

Just sayin..:)
 
Debbie ,
As stated prior you have 10 buisness days before I proceed . I have emailed you my snail mail address .
We are agreeable to 1500 in m.o. for the cost of the snake .


As for the vet bill and the rest I cannot say we will be settled after that but certainly we agree on the refund as stated numerous times .

There is still a question of IBD .I dont take that lightly ..I spoke at length today with the vet . The animal continues to go upside down and twist around . We have a lot at risk here including especially the car glow het pr that was shipped in the same box ...and our quite expensive beloved collection ..
We have already agreed earlier today... prior to reading your post that we were going to proceed with the necropsy . As I told you per email within the 1st wk of recieving this animal ...any loss we suffer due to exposure by this animal will be included in any further potential litigation .
I can update you asap on any other amendment but certainly the 1500 is acceptable for the cost of the snake and would show you are trying... once it is received . I cannot at this time say for certain we are safe and agree to this as a final settlement . Will let everyone know once we receive the final results of the biopsy(s).
I appreciate you offering to send the refund and hope this is over soon .
Thanks ,
Toni

I'm having a hard time understanding your post... Are you saying that you are going to go ahead and have the snake euthanized and necropsied, even though Debbie is sending you a refund for the animal? Or are you saying that once you receive the refund you will be sending the snake back to Debbie?
 
Yes I do but you dont see me trying to bash her skull in BEFORE she has a chance to make this right.. May sound weird But put yourself in HER shoes for a second.. This is just as hard on her as it is Toni. But, Noone seems to care about that huh? I'm Really ashamed at some of you people. Your treating this like you would treat a real known SCUMBAG. I say to everyone Not envolved to BACK OFF for a bit, Let Toni and Debbie have some ALONE time and see what happens. If Things dont go right by then. Then go for the throat. See if I care. But until then. You all look STUPID..

Just sayin..:)

i see your point but debbie should have took care of this faster than she is at first she didnt want to do any thing and from the start all i said is debbie needs to give toni a refund rhats all
 
Before this thread dies a natural death I think I need to post a comment. I sold the subject Caramel female to Debbie Prince around 10/08. Debbie was great to deal with and I really hate/don't think she packed the Caramel female with existing symptoms later reported by Toni. I do however feel that something did happen in shipping to cause the issues. I suspect this is related to overheating or oxygen deprevation, or crushing, or who knows?. Why the other snakes in box were fine is a small mystery, but not unheard of. Over the years I have received two seperate shipments where all snakes were fine except one. I think sometimes the weight of other snakes keeps one from expanding it's lungs.
Regardless, I happened to have sold several snakes to Toni at the same time she received the shipment from Debbie. Toni did contact me to let me know my shipment arrived on time and everything looked great, however she did mention how limp and out of sorts the Caramel was acting from Debbie and seemed very concerned.

I really don't have anything else to add and my main reason for posting is a comment made on page 14 by Ed Clark to the effect that, I sold Debbie Prince an animal that should have been at the bottom of a freezer. Ed that sounded like a groundless personal attack, but I am hopeing you did not mean that the way I read it. I have spent way to much effort building a reputation for integrity to see something like that in print and not say something. I assure you if anyone ever receives something from me they are not happy with they can send it back and my policy is to pay return shipping. I can only assume and hope you were trying to reference known kinking issues with Caramels.

Regarding defects in Caramels. I bought one of the first het males NERD released and that was a VERY long time ago (1998?). Sure enough I bred him to one of his daughters and got kinks. I still have the two Caramel offspring as kinked pets. I kept his normal looking daughters (50% poss. hets) and years latter purchased a Caramel offspring from a totally unrelated imported male. So, in 08 I produced 11 Caramels and every one was perfect and 08 was the first year I ever sold Caramels. How many people would stick with a project over 10 years trying to make it right before they ever sold their first Caramels? Yes, the Caramels have issues, but with solid outbreeding you can make them right. Anyone that purchases Caramels needs to continue this process and not try and rush things. By the way the two kinked offspring I kept are huge and as healthy as can be. So far I have never seen any nerve issues in Caramels.

That's it. I spoke my piece.

John Manser

John, thank you for taking the time to post.
 
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