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Info on record / Debbie Prince

jasballs said:
Yes I do but you dont see me trying to bash her skull in BEFORE she has a chance to make this right.. May sound weird But put yourself in HER shoes for a second.. This is just as hard on her as it is Toni. But, Noone seems to care about that huh? I'm Really ashamed at some of you people. Your treating this like you would treat a real known SCUMBAG. I say to everyone Not envolved to BACK OFF for a bit, Let Toni and Debbie have some ALONE time and see what happens. If Things dont go right by then. Then go for the throat. See if I care. But until then. You all look STUPID..

Just sayin..:)
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In her shoes I would have had the snake back in my possession on the 20th and a refund issued. I wouldn't have lied to my customer, I wouldn't have avoided my customer and I wouldn't have blamed my customer. I wouldn't have changed my TOS right after the customer complained so that I didn't have to make good on my guarantee and I wouldn't have put my customer in the position where they felt like the only way to resolve the issue was to take it to the BOI.

Just saying :D
 
ToshaMc said:
In her shoes I would have had the snake back in my possession on the 20th and a refund issued. I wouldn't have lied to my customer, I wouldn't have avoided my customer and I wouldn't have blamed my customer. I wouldn't have changed my TOS right after the customer complained so that I didn't have to make good on my guarantee and I wouldn't have put my customer in the position where they felt like the only way to resolve the issue was to take it to the BOI.

Just saying :D
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So Tosha, Are ya Tonis daughter? Or just another Nosey Bitch? That needs to put her two sence in where it dont even make a bit of difference..
 
jasballs said:
So Tosha, Are ya Tonis daughter? Or just another Nosey Bitch? That needs to put her two sence in where it dont even make a bit of difference..
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see jas you said you and i need to stay out of this and you just cant can you
man you just dont know when to stop i can see why a lot of people dont like you now me i like you but i think you should cool it a little just saying
 
147boas said:
see jas you said you and i need to stay out of this and you just cant can you
man you just dont know when to stop i can see why a lot of people dont like you now me i like you but i think you should cool it a little just saying
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I could careless if You like me or not, This is'nt about me. So keep on track Andy! This is about Debbie and Toni. Not Tosha and me or you and me.. Get it yet?
 
jasballs said:
I could careless if You like me or not, This is'nt about me. So keep on track Andy! This is about Debbie and Toni. Not Tosha and me or you and me.. Get it yet?
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hey jas if its not about you me or tosha why do you keep posting i know this is about toni and debbie and how debbie needs to give toni a refund
do you get it yet ??
 
147boas said:
hey jas if its not about you me or tosha why do you keep posting i know this is about toni and debbie and how debbie needs to give toni a refund
do you get it yet ??
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Tosha qouted my post. Would have been rude if I didn't comment back. Dont you think?:shrug01:
 
jasballs said:
BTW, Why did you even post here once to begin with?
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i dont think that question is on topic i have to stay on topic so i will answer it and stay on topic debbie is a flipper and she needs to refund toni's money thats why bro
 
147boas said:
i dont think that question is on topic i have to stay on topic so i will answer it and stay on topic debbie is a flipper and she needs to refund toni's money thats why bro
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So Now Debbie is a "in the words of the ole mighty BULLSHIT LEAGUE BREEDERS CLUB"
A FLIPPER? Now that is some funny Shat.. Let me ask you this "In the words of the infamous Brian Traitor" How is she a flipper selling those animals. Andrew?
 
Since neither of you can take hints, both of you can take a few days to cool off.
 
If I read the OP correctly..
She now wants to take the offered money.. but instead of sending the snake back, she's NOW going to have it euthanized and necropsied. Why not send it back?
And also, she will take the money, but still say it's not final so she can want more money afterwards. IF it turned out to be IBD(which I highly doubt), thenI could see perhaps claiming damages afterwards possibly. But agian... why are you suddenly deciding YOU will have the animal killed and necropsied.... when you've held off all this time?
 
Wolfy-hound said:
If I read the OP correctly..
She now wants to take the offered money.. but instead of sending the snake back, she's NOW going to have it euthanized and necropsied. Why not send it back?
And also, she will take the money, but still say it's not final so she can want more money afterwards. IF it turned out to be IBD(which I highly doubt), thenI could see perhaps claiming damages afterwards possibly. But agian... why are you suddenly deciding YOU will have the animal killed and necropsied.... when you've held off all this time?
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Because she owes the refund and has previously on more than one occasion said she doesnt want the animal back and we could throw it in the freezer .

Because there is still a possibility of IBD even though heat and poor packaging are most likely the cause. It needs to be cleared up asap.


The IBD suspicion was not a scare tactic...its been and still is real for us.Obviously she is not afraid and someone needs to take responsibility to clear it up .
Because Debbie was given the chance to step up and pay for the test but chose to vacate the thread instead .
Because the snake in my opinion has no quality of life and the choice to euthanize has been made prior .
Any damages claimed by us due to an animal she shipped would be unprovable with the animal gone and we cannot depend on Debbie to have any testing done or report honestly when she would be held accountable . If she had cared about the animal she would have emailed me and checked on it during the 6 wks I heard nothing from her . I am not responsible for her lack of concern ...or chasing her around asking her to care .
She was given since the shipping date almost 2 months ago and yet still blames me .
 
tuff said:
Before this thread dies a natural death I think I need to post a comment. I sold the subject Caramel female to Debbie Prince around 10/08. Debbie was great to deal with and I really hate/don't think she packed the Caramel female with existing symptoms later reported by Toni. I do however feel that something did happen in shipping to cause the issues. I suspect this is related to overheating or oxygen deprevation, or crushing, or who knows?. Why the other snakes in box were fine is a small mystery, but not unheard of. Over the years I have received two seperate shipments where all snakes were fine except one. I think sometimes the weight of other snakes keeps one from expanding it's lungs.
Regardless, I happened to have sold several snakes to Toni at the same time she received the shipment from Debbie. Toni did contact me to let me know my shipment arrived on time and everything looked great, however she did mention how limp and out of sorts the Caramel was acting from Debbie and seemed very concerned.

I really don't have anything else to add and my main reason for posting is a comment made on page 14 by Ed Clark to the effect that, I sold Debbie Prince an animal that should have been at the bottom of a freezer. Ed that sounded like a groundless personal attack, but I am hopeing you did not mean that the way I read it. I have spent way to much effort building a reputation for integrity to see something like that in print and not say something. I assure you if anyone ever receives something from me they are not happy with they can send it back and my policy is to pay return shipping. I can only assume and hope you were trying to reference known kinking issues with Caramels.

Regarding defects in Caramels. I bought one of the first het males NERD released and that was a VERY long time ago (1998?). Sure enough I bred him to one of his daughters and got kinks. I still have the two Caramel offspring as kinked pets. I kept his normal looking daughters (50% poss. hets) and years latter purchased a Caramel offspring from a totally unrelated imported male. So, in 08 I produced 11 Caramels and every one was perfect and 08 was the first year I ever sold Caramels. How many people would stick with a project over 10 years trying to make it right before they ever sold their first Caramels? Yes, the Caramels have issues, but with solid outbreeding you can make them right. Anyone that purchases Caramels needs to continue this process and not try and rush things. By the way the two kinked offspring I kept are huge and as healthy as can be. So far I have never seen any nerve issues in Caramels.

That's it. I spoke my piece.

John Manser
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Thank you for posting John . You have been nothing but kind ,honorable and helpful to us and I never thought you had caused this problem .
I admire you for your hard work and time spent in your caramel project and this is why I wanted this girl .
I am sorry about your baby .
Toni
 
I've been following this thread quietly, but now feel I need to chime in. I faul Debbie for the way this was handled insofar as what ails this animal. From a seller's standpoint, the deal is not completed until the buyer is 100% satisfied, and the animal has arrived problem free. I also fault her for dragging her feet and poor communication.

However, at this point, she has made a fair offer, which includes $1500 the buyer agrees to accept as a refund. The poblem here is that a refund usually requires the return of the product. Right now, the buyer appears to be unreasonable and vindictive. It appears to me that she wants the seller to pay and pay dearly for her mistakes.

My suggestion is either accept the offer and send the animal back or decline the offer and take your chances in court.

This would not be the first time I've hard of heat related symptoms mimicing IBD, and after surviving for over 6 weeks after displaying symptoms, I would consider it reckless to euthanize at this point. I'm speaking in retrospect, as I have dealt with an almost identical problem and opted for euthanasia and necropsy. If I hadn't jumped the gun, I would have another nice IJ carpet in my collection right now.
 
captnemo said:
This would not be the first time I've hard of heat related symptoms mimicing IBD, and after surviving for over 6 weeks after displaying symptoms, I would consider it reckless to euthanize at this point. I'm speaking in retrospect, as I have dealt with an almost identical problem and opted for euthanasia and necropsy. If I hadn't jumped the gun, I would have another nice IJ carpet in my collection right now.
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Great post!

I have also remained silent through out this thread to let the 2 ladies involved find a peaceful resolution.

Inclusion Body Disease is a serious condition one that I have had personal experience with years ago. In my experience an IBD infected snake would not eat and defecate. They would either refuse the meal or eat and regurge. I euthanized thousands of dollars in animals and destroyed all of my equipment after getting back a positive necropsy and a positive liver biopsy from one of my other snakes.

I am so sure that this is not IBD and is a heat related issue, that if Toni agrees, I will pay for shipping and allow the animal to live here in my home for the rest of it's natural life. Bryon and I raise our own feeders and have an excellent Q area, I will send pictures and keep Toni updated here and on another web site that I am a member of....sound fair?
 
captnemo said:
I've been following this thread quietly, but now feel I need to chime in. I faul Debbie for the way this was handled insofar as what ails this animal. From a seller's standpoint, the deal is not completed until the buyer is 100% satisfied, and the animal has arrived problem free. I also fault her for dragging her feet and poor communication.

However, at this point, she has made a fair offer, which includes $1500 the buyer agrees to accept as a refund. The poblem here is that a refund usually requires the return of the product. Right now, the buyer appears to be unreasonable and vindictive. It appears to me that she wants the seller to pay and pay dearly for her mistakes.

My suggestion is either accept the offer and send the animal back or decline the offer and take your chances in court.

This would not be the first time I've hard of heat related symptoms mimicing IBD, and after surviving for over 6 weeks after displaying symptoms, I would consider it reckless to euthanize at this point. I'm speaking in retrospect, as I have dealt with an almost identical problem and opted for euthanasia and necropsy. If I hadn't jumped the gun, I would have another nice IJ carpet in my collection right now.
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Excellent post! The buyer has accepted the offer of a refund, and has no right euthanizing this animal. She is being completely unreasonable at this point with her *demands*. Seems like she is trying to not only get more than what she paid for, but punish Debbie in the process. If Toni wants peace of mind, let her pay for it. Once all monies are refunded, it is NO LONGER Toni's place to have any say what Debbie should or should not pay for.
 
wyldwurm said:
Excellent post! The buyer has accepted the offer of a refund, and has no right euthanizing this animal. She is being completely unreasonable at this point with her *demands*. Seems like she is trying to not only get more than what she paid for, but punish Debbie in the process. If Toni wants peace of mind, let her pay for it. Once all monies are refunded, it is NO LONGER Toni's place to have any say what Debbie should or should not pay for.
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No right to euthanize the snake....why not. If Ms. Prince did infact sell a snake that has IBD like symptoms then she is responsible for the cost of the test as what price do you put on your collection that may have been exposed? Just some food for thought.:shrug01:
Kevin
 
Kevin S said:
No right to euthanize the snake....why not. If Ms. Prince did infact sell a snake that has IBD like symptoms then she is responsible for the cost of the test as what price do you put on your collection that may have been exposed? Just some food for thought.:shrug01:
Kevin
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Sure, HER decision with HER vet. If you sold me a snake, then refunded my money for said snake. If I came to you and said, "Hey, you owe me 600 more dollars because *I* felt the need to know if it was sick." You would probably tell me to jump off the nearest cliff.

Debbie owes nothing after that refund.
 
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