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Venomoids, the right and the wrong.

I haven't had a chance to look at the links (though I'm sure I've viewed them before), and I have been out of hots for some time....my understand was that the whole "need venom for digestion" argument was not applied to hots in general, but to certain types. (ie montane vipers and pit vipers that are regularly exposed to cooler temps. The premise being that the action of the venom sped the digestion, reducing the risk to the snake during colder periods.) Is that no longer thought to be the case?
 
that could be why the digestion arguement is still at hand, it is still unproven though that hots in captivity where temps are monitored need venom to digest food. although i'm still not knocking the idea that they do but until it is proved one way or another i cant say either way. i'ld rather be positive than to send false signals to anyone. also as far as the venomoids shouldnt be used for educational things that the links say, they are looking at it as if you will be free handling them like Crazy Ray lol. that is also not true and should not be done. i do not free handle mine at educational shows. i simply pull them out with a hook and put them 5' - 6' from me and also use the hook to extend them so that the kids can see their pattern good so i can point out markings and help them id the snakes incase they do find them selves running up on 1 they know to get away and leave it alone. i also use a 6@1/2' plexiglass cage around me to help in keep the snakes from getting loose from me. thats just another way i promote safty. i for no reason will free handle venomous or venomoid. the only way i would is if it did get loose and get close to someone watching and then ild snatch it up and take my chances but so far have never had that happen. its goes back to responsibility. and again i am in no way promoting the ownership of venomoids because i prefer hots but i do think its best to use venomoids for (REAL)educational shows for extended safty reasons. i also say this again venomoids are not 100% safe so procations should always be taking. i go the extra mile to protect my customers and others around me as should all herpers.

ok this was my last post lol just had to get that out there
 
I do not agree with taking out a venomoid or enomous snake in an educational show. If the animal is out of the cage anything can happen. I personally will leave them in LOCKED cage and the kids can walk by the cages at some point of the show.

No need to even put a little danger out there when it comes to children.

Why you ask. I think of venomoids as the unloaded gun. How many times have you heard sorry thought the gun was unloaded. What happens if the snake gets loose from you and does bit a kid and so an invection happens. Papers will say VENOMOUS SNAKE BITES CHILD IN EDUCATIONAL SHOW........

Bad press for us is bad press. We like to just stay out of the news.

Not being mean to you at all. But no reason to take a venomous snake out in public
 
when you have a 6 @ 1/2' plexiglass cage (cage is 6 @ 1/2' tall x 8' wide x 8' deep) completely around you and you are inside with the snake the child can not get too it and is practically impossible for the snake to get loose. i just use venomoids just as extra procation. unless those snakes can jump 6@1/2' there is noway they can get out of that but i always go the extra mile for safty. the floor of the cage is made so i can bolt the glass to it so no going under it. its basically a snake cage but big enough for me, the snake, and the show. i will get a few pics of my setup and post them on here as soon as i get my new cam. i dropped my other one and broke it a few weeks ago.
 
Then you are doing it for you more so then the children. Not fighting but if you are in a cage to small like that it is another reason not to hae a venomous snake out. When it comes to venomous snakes and public no reason they need to leave the cage. The public does not need to see how they are handled becuase they should not handle them.

On thing I have noticed about venomous educational shows. People forget aout the venomous education part and just say the guy had a cobra or had a viper.

IMO there is no room for venomoids. All venomoids are made for is to put venomous snakes into the hands of people that should not own a venomous snake. There is a clear danger in venomoids. I would not have so much of an issue if these people that made them would talk about the clear dangers...........
 
And just to say one more time I am not putting down what you do. You seem to have a very level head on your shoulders. It works for you. I just do not agree with it. Does not mean I hate you lol
 
i do not do it for me. i have been bit more times than i can remember by venomous not venomoids. i could have been killed when i was 5 because i didnt know what snakes were and sure didnt know they could kill me and when i was left outside alone i found 3 baby copperheads that i started to poke and then i ran got a big mason jar came back and picked them up and put them in the jar. i played another 45 mins or an hour then took them in the house to show my mom. lucky they didnt bite me cause i was the kinda kid that wouldnt run tell mom i got hurt i would just keep playing. yes copperheads a very rare to kill someone but a 5 year old could die from 1. i want to teach these kids what they look like, and what to do if they see one as well as what not to do. i do not do shows for kids with exotics only snakes from our state. parents dont seem to watch their kids anymore and therfore kids can get into all kinds of thing including venomous snakes. it is better to do all you can to stop it before it happens than to wait til after it happens and wonder what could i have done to stop it. i could bring up how dangerous it could be to do shows with large non venomous but then everyone would just say its not dangerous lol an animal is an animal and they are just like us with there good days and their bad days, at anytime those nice snakes can say ok ive had enough. try getting a 18' burm off a 10 year old or even and adult. the fact is responsibility remains on the handler not on what others think so if the handler feels he should go the extra step to use a venomoid for extra safty to protect others then great and if not and something does happen we could all wonder if only... going the extra mile to keep yourself and others around you safe is responsability. short cuts should never be taken
 
Round and round in circles we go... repeat the lies often enough and they become true.

Mmmmm,

I read (Gary O I think)

"And I and a few others did enough research to tell they are not 100% safe and he hates that. "

yes, I do. Reading factually incorrect posts on the web does not in my view consitute research.

Mmmm, let me guess, a video of Taipans and the like biting me with no result isn't evidence??

Let me guess, I am just lucky you say....

Now I shall fall into your trap of repeating things ...

venomoids by definition have no venom. If they do, they are something else...

To claim a venomoid is mutilated is also false. People can't tell the difference when looking at them!

Hardly mutilation. When we started with venomoids our critics used the term, surgical enhancement, but it didn't get the emotions high enough, so the term surgical mutilation and butchery were used instead. Same sort of language used by HSUS to get S273 over the line. I see the same Zealotry here.

Also to claim I want everyone to like venomoids is false. Last night I caught a suite of Tiger Snakes, Browns and the like, all deadly and all venomous and all were released still venomous.

Venomoids at best as stated in all my papers, have a limited use and potential "market". They will never be everywhere and nor should they be.

From a commercial point of view, I'd perhaps rather be the only person on earth with venomoids.

ALL THE BEST:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse
 
adder said:
Save the "venom" in your replies and go here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157644

and use it. I think it may be more useful.

Happy herping....
Click to expand...

Shows how slow you are. I know I have and I know many others in this thread have been doing a lot with that. How about sending out over 250 letters from the last show I vended?

See regular people can do more then one thing at a time........

And the snake did not bite you. YOU abused it and forced it to.
 
Excuse me Gary E Orner Jr, it was you and your mates who begged me to post a video online of me copping a bite from a venomoid to PROVE that they hadn't regenerated venom as you and your mates kept claiming.

As a "one off", O(done several times to remove the inevitable claims of "faking") you now twist things to claim we are "abusing" our snakes.

Well, your gros hypocracy is shown when you ignore the fact that venom labs "abuse" snakes daily to milk them.

The use of venomoids removes the need for this ongoing "abuse" because we don't require anti-venom when bit and hence no need to abuse snakes to get the venom in the first place.

Put simply anyone who attacks venomoids used in our context (educational shows daily) endorses ongoing cruelty to snakes through hooks, tongs, tailing and the need to "milk" snakes and force them to bite foreign objects, so that they can get "antivenom" when bitten.

The numbers go against you Gary E Orner Jr.

But as I have mentioned before here and elsewhere, people like yourself seem oblivious to the obvious truth and this lack of credibility on your part will be used by HSUS and the like to ram the python ban bill thru.

Bye for now
 
Explain to me, Ray, how saying "venomoids are not totally safe and the surgery is not an exact science" is the same as helping push through S373? And of what concern is it to you what Americans are or are not doing regarding that bill? Doesn't Australia have a ban on damn near every non-native reptile anyways? Stop trying to use a bill that you aren't even remotely involved with to promote your own reckless ideal.
 
ok Ray im only going to say this once cause now you are making yourself look like an idiot in another way. you say milking venomous is cruel and there is no need for it but maybe you need a reality check bud, venom is being studied for cures from cancer to cronic pain so before you go running off your mouth about something you have no idea about and to dumb to read about maybe you need to keep your trap shut and take a long trip in the outback and get lost. if you dont have enough sense to know the venom is used in studies for medical cures you dont have enough sense to do educational shows at all with venomous. the point of doing shows is to teach the good of these reptiles along with the dangers so what the hell you doing for a show? oh thats right you just act stupid and teach kids its ok to screw with venomous snakes.
 
i dont think my question was ever answered, what is the purpose of having/keeping venomoid hots. as i said, i can potentially see it for educational purposes only. i dont see what the purpose is of putting an animal that has natural, god-given properties, and taking them away from them, so that the keeper can feel safe. if one doesnt want to reap the affects of a possible venomous bite, do not keep those that which can deliver that bite.
 
reticguy76 said:
i dont think my question was ever answered, what is the purpose of having/keeping venomoid hots. as i said, i can potentially see it for educational purposes only. i dont see what the purpose is of putting an animal that has natural, god-given properties, and taking them away from them, so that the keeper can feel safe. if one doesnt want to reap the affects of a possible venomous bite, do not keep those that which can deliver that bite.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
Hi Ryan, the way i see it there is NO reason other than educational use to have a venomoid. if you are worried about getting bit dont get them at all, things do happen and as most of us here have said they are still not 100% safe. there are absolutly no benifits of having a venomoid over a venomous unless its used for education. thats just my view on it. everyone have theirs so im not knocking anyones
 
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