Info on substrate sterilization..... please read...

[dragonluver83]

this person typed this same information up on .org and it was met with a similar response. On top of the fact that it is written in a rude and condescending way.

JallenFl you should have just kept this "info" to yourself.[/QUOTE

Why would I keep such informative information from people who should be informed. I only intended to help those who need help. I can say respectfully that I am glad I do not own any of your dragons.
You have proven that there is no way to help your closed mind.
Just wish you could close your mouth and not type.

Do you really not disinfect your laying medium?
I surely hope not but it does seem this is the case....
I even bet you just let it sit until it is needed for use again which is by far more unsanitary than just shoving there own feces in your dragons mouths. So to speak.

I can not see myself investing my hard earned money into something you obviously care so little about. I do however wish that people do more research and avoid breeders who care as little as the 2 of you obviously do.

I would appreciate if you keep your unintelligent chatter to yourself and avoid any threads I post as you will surely confuse anyone trying to learn.

I have read many post from you and if I followed any of your nonsense I am sure my dragons would be in as poor health as some of yours may be.

It is very simple to bash someone that is going to cause harm to your business. In an aspect that you are only in it for the money and not the love of these creatures as we apparently are by taking measures to the extreme but I can however understand your natural laziness. I currently make a gross salary of around $82,000.00 this year in the aspect that I am not making this money from my breeding but from a real job. Breeding for me is not a hobby it is a full time passion. I could care less about profiteering from this as you are seemingly intrigued by.

I do however wish that anyone that is looking to purchase a dragon please contact me to talk about the strenuous care I take of my dragons and how they experience no harm from the lack of care you seem to have.

Further more, I really have zero patience for people like you. I have read many of your post that you have made bashing people asking questions that are pertinent to them. That is just simply your lack of true knowledge in this breeding trade. I hope sincerely that people question your abilities to produce genetically sound specimens from this day forward. God help your dragons as you play GOD with there health I hope you sleep tonight understanding the harm you are doing and the benefit you would have from trying something new and monitoring your own results.

Both of you clearly have no business doing what you are doing and it truly makes me want to puke up my testicles.

You should really think before you type, or for that matter try and think before you actually think.

You talk about a condescending way I word things and unfortunately for you, I will continue to be this way against unintelligent and most deffinately unknowledgeable people like you.

DragonLuver:

I dont even know how to respond to the dumb questions you asked.
It has given me a migraine just trying to lower myself to your level.

I do however hope this has opened your eyes as there are truly great breeders out there that show genuine care in what they do and I am in contact with these individuals on a daily basis discussing new techniques on how to do things rather than remaining stone age like you have chosen to be. I would have loved to have never had to point out your lack of caring but after the way you attacked my post I feel responsible to point out the fact that I would also only use your dragons for scientific research to better the species and better inform myself of what I strive so hard to avoid.

Please keep your eye out for my future work as it will blow your mind with the things I am working up in my Lab. Yes I said Lab, as in a place in which studies are done to perform scientific research. I seem to have a natural care in my bones you lack. Don't bash me again unless your knowledge is sound and not misleading in any manner. My level of discipline in what I strive for obviously far surpasses your ability to even breath.

Sincerely,
Justin R. Allen
SGT. U.S.M.C. 5 Years Recon, 3 Combat Tours, 1Afghanistan2003, 2Iraq2004/2005 Fallujah, Operations Africa200*. Please respect what you cant begin to even understand.
Alumni University of Florida 2011 Biology

Well for startes there is no such thing as a dumb question. second your not answering my questions because your full of ?

research my rep. then go from there. you dont know your head from your . and it shows quite well... You and your friend/brother are the biggest bags i have ever encounted in the discussion forum.

 

[jallenfl]

I can only thank god I had a different DOC. than you as I would have surely perished in combat if i relied on you to save my life. It is implemented in the way you obviously care to help others here.

Really is that what you think. There is obviously some disconnect in your brain as you have no idea who I am or what I have gone through. You are definitely a PRIOR MARINE, and do not deserve to be able to put yourself in the same class as the men and women that I have the distinct pleasure of serving with.

You are a useless waist of space on this site and I honestly feel all you are doing is wanting to start arguments and draw attention to yourself as the victim of the (as you call us) ignorant breeders that are attacking your opinions.

The day and age that you want to talk to any of the Marines that I deployed with about what type of person I am and wether or not I was a integral part of their team you bring your happy rear to Camp Lejeune, I will meet you at the gate and take you to my previous SgtMaj, 1stSgt, CO, XO, Fire Team leader, Gunner of my Vic or whoever else you want to talk to you insolent puke.

funny how you are doing what you are bashing me for. I only stated the things I did because you are not a person anyone should take advice from and after how you reply to others I am sure it will not take long for most to see. Contradicting Irony you have laid out on the table. I hope most people can understand what I was trying to achieve before you started this argument. It is simple though you could break your fingers and do us all a favor.

 

[dragonluver83]

I have respect for you Brian you had the courage to grab your balls when you needed to. Unfortunate you are very contradicting as your sig on BD.ORG brags you are in the navy. "Squid"

As for being scolded on BD.ORG I have requested they cancel my subscription as I have little patience for there over emotional reactions to debate. (they can really cry up a storm about everything there and I would rec. any newb avoid that site if they prefer to have debate in which they can learn something. Especially your postings which steer in the wrong direction on a basis.) They tend to cry about anything that is discussed. I also believe that is why all the great breeders out there also avoid that site. You on the other hand tend to frequent that site all the time. Which is subsequently wasted. You truly are a negative person towards most people that post never trying to educate anyone just demotivating there natural interest.

You also appear to be over emotional! I can say I may not word things in the most acceptable manner. (Your opinion) it is welcomed. However you would be the last person I would turn to for advice if I were a newbie. If someone cannot read my posting and understand my wording in an adult manner I prefer they not post anything. (take that advice it is meant for you.) I only listed my past experiences so you could show respect and understand my dedication for everything I do in life. You really are sounding a little more dumb then I am sure you are. Stop,,, it makes you look very stupid. As for your experiences I can only thank god I had a different DOC. than you as I would have surely perished in combat if i relied on you to save my life. It is implemented in the way you obviously care to help others here.

Peace, J

I CAN PROMISE YOU, YOU ARE NO MORE WELCOME OVER HERE THAN WHAT YOU WERE ON BEARDED DRAGON DOT ORG.

 

[spyder79]

funny how you are doing what you are bashing me for. I only stated the things I did because you are not a person anyone should take advice from and after how you reply to others I am sure it will not take long for most to see. Contradicting Irony you have laid out on the table. I hope most people can understand what I was trying to achieve before you started this argument. It is simple though you could break your fingers and do us all a favor.

Your ignorance pretty much oozes from your computer onto any forum you post on. You need to think before you type. Have a great day lil fella.

 

[jallenfl]

opinions are like assholes and you know the rest. I have no time to speak with you any more. I believe SALLEN87 truly informed you of how Unintelligent you are and it may have gotten to you. I can understand when words are to large for you to understand there definitions and how it could seem as if someone did not answer your questions perhaps you should re-read his post as I believe he answered to the best of anyone's abilities just not yours.

as for being welcome here that is not a concern of mine because I will surely continue to post when I have knowledge. The sad part is, how one line in my initial post got you so butt hurt we both (SALLEN87) and myself had to call you out on your methods and now you are concerned that someone will truly question your unsafe methods. You may very well do things to the best of your abilities but shutting out any new possibilities shows me how much you care. What can my method hurt? Nothing. What harm can it cause by not trying it? Nothing. We however cannot say the same thing for not trying it and your closed mind is your greatest down fall in what it is you are doing.

 

[jallenfl]

I do utterly enjoy how you make your own little incorrect conclusions about who or what people are (ps this is a hobby for me plain and simple my main source of income comes from being in the military which funds my hobby, though I have never been so blatant as to list out my military credentials as you did, what did you expect that to mean anything to me? I certainly hope not).

You have no right to speak towards people the way you do nor does anyone honestly respect your "method" of "informing" people. You talk about how I am yet you are the one that was publicly scolded on bd.org for the way you conducted yourself, not me.

Do not make conclusions about how I keep my animals unless you come to my home and view my setups yourself.

and since you felt it important to talk about degrees and military background.

Brian Preachers
US Navy, currently active duty, starting 6th year, assigned to II Marine Expeditionary Force for 4 years, 2 combat tours Iraq (areas to include Fallujah, Al Asad, Saul Sinjar, downtown Baghdad, Iraqi/Syrian border)
Bachelors degree Human Resources Management, currently working on Masters in Health Care Administration

YOu have a wonderful day

I made my staements solely off the information you have given me in the fact you said this is not nec. What can it Hurt? Trying it that is...

 

[dragonluver83]

opinions are like and you know the rest. I have no time to speak with you any more. I believe SALLEN87 truly informed you of how Unintelligent you are and it may have gotten to you. I can understand when words are to large for you to understand there definitions and how it could seem as if someone did not answer your questions perhaps you should re-read his post as I believe he answered to the best of anyone's abilities just not yours.

as for being welcome here that is not a concern of mine because I will surely continue to post when I have knowledge. The sad part is, how one line in my initial post got you so butt hurt we both (SALLEN87) and myself had to call you out on your methods and now you are concerned that someone will truly question your unsafe methods. You may very well do things to the best of your abilities but shutting out any new possibilities shows me how much you care. What can my method hurt? Nothing. What harm can it cause by not trying it? Nothing. We however cannot say the same thing for not trying it and your closed mind is your greatest down fall in what it is you are doing.

Im just shutting out your ignorance. It shows, and your doing a GREAT job on showing your intelligence. Sounds like some verbal diarrhea. Nice work college boys.

 

[dragonluver83]

I made my staements solely off the information you have given me in the fact you said this is not nec. What can it Hurt? Trying it that is...

It may not be necessary, but your right it doesnt hurt. my problem is the way you presented it. and knocked people for something that wasnt even really posted. There was not post on the care of the bacteria in the soil. Just a post because people didnt know what to put there females in when they needed to lay. you could of added some possible good info in that thread itself and made it that much more valuable. but instead read your original post. How would you take that if you read that. you were off context with what you were stating.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Oh OH so now you want to talk to me. You did see me at harve de grace like i thought you said you were ( i did meet Rich though) But now i should listen to you

Anyway, Debra nothing is wrong with new fresh info for care on your animals. But did you not read what they typed? Could you not see the ignorance in what they typed? Incase you didnt know there referring to me and some others that posted in my thread.
I have no problem with new info. But they couldnt just start a new thread about bacteria in the soil of the lay bin. Then give us some info, Then give us how to care for the bacteria levels in the soil? The way they put the info has made me turn my nose up to anything they really have to say. I know my proper husbandry skills. My thread wasnt about care for the soil it was about the lay bin itself since there were so many people asking questions. An after a few more replys i probly wont look at this thread again.

Did you speak to me? When I am in "buy" mode..I see noone that's not a serpent or reptile, ask Harald!

 

[dragonluver83]

Did you speak to me? When I am in "buy" mode..I see noone that's not a serpent or reptile, ask Harald!

I dont know what you look like. I thought Rich might have pointed me out i am not far from his table. Actually i sold out of my dragons at 10:30 and didnt have anything left. i had some dubia roaches and hornworms left that was it.

 

[jallenfl]

It may not be necessary, but your right it doesnt hurt. my problem is the way you presented it. and knocked people for something that wasnt even really posted. There was not post on the care of the bacteria in the soil. Just a post because people didnt know what to put there females in when they needed to lay. you could of added some possible good info in that thread itself and made it that much more valuable. but instead read your original post. How would you take that if you read that. you were off context with what you were stating.

The difference is I have already stated and owned up to the fact that my posting was slightly brash.

I have re-read it and did not intend for it to come across that way. I will not apologize for the fact that you are both the same way. On the other hand you can not deny that people often post when they should not. (I probably left you a door to say that about me but at least I have owned up to my little mishap in the way I wrote my post.) With this said I have no problem with you Dragonluver but I could care less for Brian he has the least amount of skill in helping people and I am sure others have stated this, I believe the word was (Condescending.) Correct me if I'm wrong and now you feel the need to use this word as if you are a child in school learning a new word for the first time in his spelling bee. Childish Brian truly. The worst is you are both pointing fingers at us for the exact same thing you continue to do. That is truly Contradicting not to be mistaken with Brian's "Condescending" word which is apparently as far as his vocab has evolved in his life.

This discussion has gone this far because you both have nothing better to do than see the bad and not try what you can only benefit from...

 

[jallenfl]

Thank you both for trashing my thread as this was not intended to start this who is more intelligent war but you left your door open for this by challenging my abilities and intelligence. You both by far are no better at your people skills than I appear to be.

On the other hand I will note how you also tried to attack Deborah right off the bat so who is truly wrong in this matter. I assure you it is not me and I am glad it is in this thread for others to see. I mean really you are upset that someone may not have spoken with you? I cant imagine why.

 

[spyder79]

The difference is I have already stated and owned up to the fact that my posting was slightly brash.

I have re-read it and did not intend for it to come across that way. I will not apologize for the fact that you are both the same way. On the other hand you can not deny that people often post when they should not. (I probably left you a door to say that about me but at least I have owned up to my little mishap in the way I wrote my post.) With this said I have no problem with you Dragonluver but I could care less for Brian he has the least amount of skill in helping people and I am sure others have stated this, I believe the word was (Condescending.) Correct me if I'm wrong and now you feel the need to use this word as if you are a child in school learning a new word for the first time in his spelling bee. Childish Brian truly. The worst is you are both pointing fingers at us for the exact same thing you continue to do. That is truly Contradicting not to be mistaken with Brian's "Condescending" word which is apparently as far as his vocab has evolved in his life.

This discussion has gone this far because you both have nothing better to do than see the bad and not try what you can only benefit from...

I am just not going to stoop to your level on this. You can continue to attempt personal attacks towards me but at the end of the day you are making only one person look like a fool and that my friend is you.

 

[Payara]

I dont think they were attacking Deborah...Im pretty sure they were just joking with her

 

[jallenfl]

And again Dragonluver, I never read that post you made. My posting was separate from any info you may have posted. I did not read anything you posted. I stated this off of the 100 other post I have come across in which misleading information is given when there are apparently better ways.

We are responsible for the well-being of our dragons in a sense that if we hinder one thing and do not strive to try new things and better our abilities we are simply wasting time.

"Anything worth doing is worth doing right." I am not stating that my way is right, just that it is another step to help get people up to 100% of what they are capable of doing in captivity. Bryan argued the relativity of this on BD.ORG stating that there are way worse things in the wild that can harm these creatures. He is correct, however these specimens are captive and I want higher results than in nature. Especially considering that they have no choice in captivity except for the environment we create for them. That seems pretty archaic considering that our abilities have evolved in breeding for years and if we do not try new methods that can surpass past results we are failing our scaled friends in the worst way possible. We should be bettering the species in anyway possible not arguing the method in which I posted my info. Like I said a mature adult like Deborah could obviously read past my mis-wording and see the info for what it is worth unlike others...

 

[jallenfl]

I dont think they were attacking Deborah...Im pretty sure they were just joking with her

My apology as it seemed that way, after all the other post they have made it just seemed reasonable.

I dont see where they gain from bashing rather than trying something new.
I for one will try anything at least once that is the character of an open minded person. I am sorry for my misleading statement I posted if it was truly a joking manner as I can only take my opinion from what they have given me to judge them on as I have done the same.

 

[WebSlave]

Cut the crap NOW! I've just skimmed over this thread and see a bunch of postering and hot air based on OPINIONS, and nothing more. If this pissing match continues ALL involved will be getting three days in the dugout.

 

[jallenfl]

I am just not going to stoop to your level on this. You can continue to attempt personal attacks towards me but at the end of the day you are making only one person look like a fool and that my friend is you.

You continue to prove yourself.

I started a thread you made the first personal attack, go back and read your first post ass. I guess you are truly contradicting in nature unfortunate for you as you seem blinded by this. I believe my post is right and even some breeders should keep there mouths shut (I.E. YOU) I have no concern in posting personal attacks but you both attacked me first. If your only basis is that my post is a little brash in nature than I really am lowering myself to your level considering the personal bashing you started with and it is making me disgusted each time you post this not realizing your own wrong. I don't care Brian anyone can read your postings you are not helpful only negative sitting in your holy grail mind thinking you are better than the rest. Not a good outlook on things Brian.


You bashed 3 of my friends on BD.ORG and they were only trying to get help. What do you think your shit doesn't stink like everyone else s?

 

[red ink]

jallenfl,

Mate very intersting i can see that you are quite passionate in what youn are trying to convey. One thing though (and this is comming from a fellow man with a background in science), you have stated that there are both harmful and benificial micro-organisms in the soil (accepted). You have also stated that you do not own bearded dragons, which i would assume therefore have no first hand experience in their husbandry or breeding. So with your lack of experience you can understand how these guys would feel when you talk to them about their practices.

Now to my point that i want to make.

Is there any concrete evidence beyond hypothetical conclusions and statistical speculations that using soil as a lay medium affects the life spans of pagona vitticep hatchlings?
As a fellow man of science you would understand that if you can not provide me a direct reference to a paper on this exact subject that your points from a scientific point of view are just hypothesis and suppositions.

Pagona vitticeps as a species have been around for a very long time as most most people would now that eany current species of ecotherms on the planet have been in their evolutionary form for at least a million years. Therefore this would mean that there has been a symbiotic (or sometimes not) relationship between the micro-organisms found naturally in their environment as whats within them. This would lead me to beleive that most (not all) harmfull micro-organisms within the lay medium would be easily counteracted by the specimens immune system. Even as a hatching as these are past through from the parents.

In order for your points toi be accepted and solidified you would need to create a viral map of pagona vitticeps in captivity and cross reference that with bacterial mapping from the most common soils used in reptile husbandry (again without this it is just merely speculations).


Francis Lapuz
B.App.Sci Scientific Imaging, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Victoria, Australia.
Image Analyst Insurance Australia Group Melbourne Vic Australia

 

[red ink]

Just want to add jallenfl that I don't mean for my post to come accross as an attack on you, just merely looking at the issue from a scientific point of view