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Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

Chrisw said:
I guess you missed the card with the code on the back?
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Oh I get it now, thanks for cleaing that up. You just show them the card and they have the same exact card with no other info in their folder at the facility. My point is, there has to be some type of other document you can produce. Get it? Unless the lab just has a bunch of file folders with cards in them.
 
He wouldnt have been SOL. I told him I'd give him a damn refund (which we didnt even get a chance to talk about) BEFORE the necropsy was done. He said he wanted to do it. The fine, do it. He named prices to me and gave me deadlines. I could care less about deadlines because I am in question how my damn snake died. I am allowed to be concerned and questionable about my healthy animal (as far as I knew physically) and had for 2 years, was in perfect shape when shipped out and then DIED days after he received it. THAT is not something that people should be asking me about. Anyone would wonder the same thing.

We are not in a fairy land where everyone says the truth and everyone is happy. I shipped a healthy animal (to my knowledge) that I had for 2 damn years to a complete stranger and it arrived fine. Didnt hear anything concerning any problems with the snake for 2 1/2 days. Then I get a call saying he has lots of mucus and then dies the following day. I HAVE THE DAMN RIGHT TO WONDER WHAT HAPPENED. I would have given a refund whether the necropsy was done or not. He CHOSE TO DO IT, so fine.
 
Wow, Yaz....you're looking like a bad guy all around to me.

I have no problem with you requiring a vet report and/or necropsy report. Personally, if I sent an animal out, and it died within 72 hours, and the vet stated pneumonia, that buyer is going to receive the full amount paid as a refund....period. Yeah, I would want to see a copy of the report, and possibly a necropsy report.....your buyer is willing to provide both.

Shipping/paypal fees are the costs incurred from doing business. If you are so inefficient in your dealings that you only manage to clear $227 of a $390 transaction, that is something you need to deal with, not your buyer.

If you loved this animal so much, why did you sell it?

Lastly, to try and claim that it may not be the same animal is laughable. I've seen similar labial patterns before, but those are identical. It's time to man up.

David, thank you for posting this thread. Kinda makes me feel relieved that I declined Yaz's trade offer. However, we would still like to see some type of report posted.
 
john_ said:
I certainly don't get it. Why are people taking the OPs word and not Yaz's? The seller was promised refunds 2 different times, I can think thats a start? Is it because people have a tendency to be more sympathetic to the buyer? In my opinion if I sold an animal I thought to be in good health and it died suddenly I'd expect the buyer to have some good reason as to why, otherwise I'd think he was trying to get the snake and the money. I agree with you, but Yaz is the one that said NOT to get the necropsy done. It only makes sense to expect some type of proof - and that being said, if I was the buyer I'd get every bit of proof I possibly could to ensure I got my money back. As Yaz has stated, he WONT give a full refund even if it comes back in David's favor. Knowing he had the necropsy done (and cheaply) why not just wait for the proof prior to making the demands? Sit back, wait for the data and then proceed. I could understand this if Yaz didnt say he would refund the money and never did.
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Comments in bold, maybe we will get some sort of documents from the vets soon.
 
I sold him because I needed room for babies. I have/had 2 boas that were gravid and a carpet python that laid eggs. I needed racks and more room so I chose to let him go to make room. I have another big male that Ive had much longer than this one so I wanted to keep the one I had longer because Im more attached to him than this one.

The vet STATED pneumonia to David. I have yet to see any evidence of the vets even saying that. I have NOT received any calls with the DVMs either. There is simply NO PROOF about pnuemonia even existing except David saying they told him that. Anyone could make up anything and say "this person told me this" then all of a sudden everything will be better and be given a refund? Thats not how this works. This is not a defective electronic that can be simply said its not working and I want my money back. This is an animal that died from an UNKNOWN cause right now. That said, why should a refund be given at all? I'm someone who will not screw another person over, this sucks for the both of us. I told him he will get a refund EITHER WAY, but he wanted to get the necropsy done regardless. So now that its down to this, I want proof. I'm not going to throw a refund out there just for the hell of it anymore.
 
I NEVER SAID I would give him the money he was requesting and giving me deadlines for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told him we can talk about a refund of something more fair or wait for the proof to see what happens. He thought it was fair to get almost all of the money back. I dont think so considering he was a healthy boa when he arrived and it died and now we're unsure of the cause. I was fine with working something out. He got the necropsy done wanting to claim his rights to it all and thats his choice.
 
David, post emails from the vet of the information you received. Also please call the vet and lets have a conference call Im interested to see what she has to say as of right now.
 
I don't think I have ever seen a seller waffle so much and try so hard to pass blame. I have little doubt the necropsy will come back with the cause of death being something from prior to the buyer receiving the animal and no doubt the seller will continue to try and pass the blame.

To me the seller advising against a necropsy while saying in this thread that he would have issued a partial refund without it tells me the seller didn't want it proven that the snake was ill in his care.

I find "live arrival" guarantees ridiculous. If you cannot guarantee the health of your animal from pre existing conditions then maybe you shouldn't be selling your animals.

I'll never understand how someone would be willing to ruin their reputation for a few hundred dollars when I firmly believe deep down he knows the animal, while maybe not outwardly, was ill in his care.
 
Yaz23 said:
I wasnt planning on giving him the full $390 back whether he did the necropsy or not. This wasnt my fault nor possibly his. So if I do send the full amount back, then he gets all his money back and I'm on a snake and this WAS NOT MY FAULT so we both should take a hit. I didnt decide upon how much the refund was before he decided to do the necropsy because he decided to do it and then from speculation from the DVMs (as I was told at least, no proof) David told me it was pnuemonia.
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Ok, you are sadly lacking in basic business knowledge if you truly believe the bolded lines above, that's just plain ridiculous. Name me a legitimate business that a customer can walk into, pay a price for an item/service, NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, and be told by the seller "we'll both have to take a hit here"???? That seller would be SHUT DOWN!

It is ALWAYS the buyer that gets the benefit of the situation, you should KNOW this as a "businessman". When a customer PAYS a price, and DOES NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, they are entitled to a REFUND OF WHAT THEY PAID. Not fair? Tough. You are running a business, this is YOUR COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Do you think the grocery store gets to pull "both take a hit" on their fruit suppliers when stuff goes bad before they sell it? No, it is EXPECTED that some fruit will go bad, and they factor it into their balance sheet as a COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Like anything else that is a required expense to run a business... office supplies, *coughpackingmaterialscough*, credit card fees, rent, utilities, blah blah blah.

Your customer did not get what he paid $390 for. Whether or not you are "out a boa" COULD NOT BE MORE IRRELEVANT to your customer's satisfaction. If the necropsy report confirms death by something it had before you shipped, the ONLY course if action is a full refund of $390. That is what the customer gave you, and that is what you should refund. The customer did not get what he paid for, and if it is shown to be your "fault", then a full refund is the only acceptable outcome. Your customer does not need to know about your "expenses", nor should they have to care. It is not their concern what your costs of doing business are... they are paying for a product. Period. The only number your customer needs to concern themselves with is the price tag. That price they paid is what they are due if they did not receive what they paid for through no fault of their own.

I don't understand how someone stays in "business" when they treat BUSINESS transactions like some type of loosely-negotiable social contract...?
 
Sorry, but just as a few others have stated quite a few times now, (And this is in no reference to immediately just throwing a cash refund at the OP, but in reference to sending one after the results are in) I personally just do not like the idea that Yaz has stated that even if it is proven that the snake died to an illness it had prior to it leaving his hands, the OP will not be getting back a FULL refund for the $390 he paid and(as I feel it should also be covered as it is being REQUIRED for any refund at all now) the cost of the necropsy.
 
Mister Internet said:
Ok, you are sadly lacking in basic business knowledge if you truly believe the bolded lines above, that's just plain ridiculous. Name me a legitimate business that a customer can walk into, pay a price for an item/service, NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, and be told by the seller "we'll both have to take a hit here"???? That seller would be SHUT DOWN!

It is ALWAYS the buyer that gets the benefit of the situation, you should KNOW this as a "businessman". When a customer PAYS a price, and DOES NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, they are entitled to a REFUND OF WHAT THEY PAID. Not fair? Tough. You are running a business, this is YOUR COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Do you think the grocery store gets to pull "both take a hit" on their fruit suppliers when stuff goes bad before they sell it? No, it is EXPECTED that some fruit will go bad, and they factor it into their balance sheet as a COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Like anything else that is a required expense to run a business... office supplies, *coughpackingmaterialscough*, credit card fees, rent, utilities, blah blah blah.

Your customer did not get what he paid $390 for. Whether or not you are "out a boa" COULD NOT BE MORE IRRELEVANT to your customer's satisfaction. If the necropsy report confirms death by something it had before you shipped, the ONLY course if action is a full refund of $390. That is what the customer gave you, and that is what you should refund. The customer did not get what he paid for, and if it is shown to be your "fault", then a full refund is the only acceptable outcome. Your customer does not need to know about your "expenses", nor should they have to care. It is not their concern what your costs of doing business are... they are paying for a product. Period. The only number your customer needs to concern themselves with is the price tag. That price they paid is what they are due if they did not receive what they paid for through no fault of their own.

I don't understand how someone stays in "business" when they treat BUSINESS transactions like some type of loosely-negotiable social contract...?
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You're assuming it is a business and not just a hobby. I think there is a clear distinction between a private buyer and seller and business/customer practices...especially over the internet. Putting myself in Yaz's shoes, being confident I sent out what I thought to be a healthy snake, I'd expect some type of proof and maybe negotiate from there. Putting myself in the OPs shoes, Id ask for a refund and provide every shred of evidence that a sick snake was sent. Either way, data is needed. Why speculate or take the word of a stranger when it comes to money?
 
If I dont know how my boa died in the first place why the hell should I even give a full refund thats my question to you. What if something happened and that boa died from something that didnt involve me at all? I'm giving a refund for no damn reason. So I can sit and wait to see what happened.
 
Tom, I find this statement you made rediculous: "It is ALWAYS the buyer that gets the benefit of the situation, you should KNOW this as a "businessman". When a customer PAYS a price, and DOES NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, they are entitled to a REFUND OF WHAT THEY PAID. Not fair? Tough."

This is not a damn retail store where you can say "This isnt what I want give me my money back" This is AN ANIMAL THAT DIED. From what your stating above I can simply buy a snake off the net, receieve the snake and then tell the seller "This isnt animal isnt as nice as the picture, I want my money back" We are dealing with an animals death not some return/exchange policy at a dollar store buddy.
 
Spelling error, it was suppose to say! "This animal isnt as nice as the picture, I want my money back"
 
John...it doesn't matter if it is just a hobby to Yaz....he decided to get involved in a business transactions with another person...therefore he is a business man in all accounts during that situation, and should treat everything like a good business man would
 
john_ said:
You're assuming it is a business and not just a hobby. I think there is a clear distinction between a private buyer and seller and business/customer practices...especially over the internet.
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I disagree... WHENEVER you take someone's money in exchange for an item, you have engaged IN A BUSINESS TRANSACTION. You might not be an "official" business, but when you put yourself in a position of taking someone's money in exchange for something YOU ARE TO PROVIDE to them, you are a businessman, like it or not. And in business, all mishaps that occur OUTSIDE THE BUYER'S CONTROL are the SOLE responsibility of the seller to rectify.

Why should there be a clear distinction between "Joe Bob" taking "Jimmy's" money for a snake and not delivering, and a 'reputable seller' taking "Jimmy's" money for a snake and not delivering? This is one reason that we HAVE so many of these threads... people think "Oh, I'm not a business, it's no big deal". When you accept someone's money in exchange for a good or service you will provide, "fair" goes out the window. You MUST provide your customer (yes, customer) exactly what they paid for, and if you can't, or things happen to negate the transaction that were outside the buyer's control, then you give that customer their money back, as you were unable to provide a satisfactory good or service in exchange for that money.

Look at it this way... maybe this Yaz guy is planning on being a "legit" business someday. His signature talks about an upcoming website, it would appear he is at least trying to make more money than he spends at this. That means he's attempting to make a profit, which makes him a businessman. If he wants to GET to the 'reputable dealer' or 'I do this full time' point, why should how he handles a situation like this change? If he handles it correctly now, then he will handle it correctly in the 'big time'. If he cannot handle it correctly now, how does he expect people to take him seriously in the future, when he might in fact be doing a decent volume of sales?
 
I am treating it good, I am simply wanting evidence that it had a prior deathly illness before I shipped him if he wants that big of a refund. I said he didnt need to get a necropsy done to get a refund, he wanted a lot more than what I was going to give him so he got the necropsy done in hopes of getting all his money back. Thats fine no problem, but considering he didnt want a refund and wanted almost his whole amount of money back then we can wait for the report and see what it says and then issue the correct refund.

I am still waiting for a phone call from the DVMs stating information they told David. Didnt receive a call yet from anyone.
 
Yaz23 said:
Tom, I find this statement you made rediculous: "It is ALWAYS the buyer that gets the benefit of the situation, you should KNOW this as a "businessman". When a customer PAYS a price, and DOES NOT GET WHAT THEY PAID FOR, they are entitled to a REFUND OF WHAT THEY PAID. Not fair? Tough."

This is not a damn retail store where you can say "This isnt what I want give me my money back" This is AN ANIMAL THAT DIED. From what your stating above I can simply buy a snake off the net, receieve the snake and then tell the seller "This isnt animal isnt as nice as the picture, I want my money back" We are dealing with an animals death not some return/exchange policy at a dollar store buddy.
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You took someone's money and promised them a snake. You are, in fact, a retail businessman.

In your hypothetical, yes, you are entitled to a refund. You'd have to return the snake of course. How is this idea in dispute?

You can try deflecting by playing on people's emotions... yes, an animal died, and that is very unfortunate. However, that does not absolve either party of their roles or responsibilities in a business transaction.

Are you actually suggesting that when an animal dies, the seller should just sit around and moan about how horrible it was that an animal died and the buyer should commiserate by accepting less than the refund they are entitled to? I'm confused and really trying to understand this mentality.
 
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