Although I hate the BOI and hope it goes away instead of just threatening to take it away to make a few bucks, Knowing David as I do, if the intent was to do a refund, partial or not, just do it already. He got a necropsy, not required, the snake is still dead, he has said that he doesnt think you are a scammer on several occasions. David is a world class guy, and the money isn't going to change his life, I am sure, but a refund is the right thing to do. Remember what this thread started out as before all the backbiting, name calling, speculation, tangents, he said, she said, and CSI photo analysis. Time is money. The time spend on this, from the stand point of money, is incalcuable. Don't judge breeders on something that happened, judge them on what they do about it.
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Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa
- Thread starter CarolinaClassicDragons
- Start date
crotalusadamanteus
Brother Infidel
The door is pretty easy to find if you hate it that much.
I'll say this now, if someone was implying that I lied about the weight that is rediculous. How would I lie about his weight when I had to ship him? The whole package weighed 43 pounds ON THE UPS SCALE IN THE BRANCH.
I personally weighed him in just a tub on an electonic scale in my house and him and the plastic tub weighed just under 40 pounds. Based on that I assumed the boa was probably around 37 pounds or so. I tried weighing just the tub on the electonic scale (so I could just subtract that weight with the weight from the boa and the tub to get the EXACT weight of the boa by himself) but it didnt read the weight of the empty tub because the tub was too light for the scale to turn on. (the scale turns on automatically once weight is applied). So I assumed he was around 37 pounds or so to be exact.
His age of 9-10 years seemed accurate to me, and as Chris stated it is accurate.
So his age and weight shouldnt be questioned to me.
Matthew, I am sorry that I missed your post and didnt answer it the first time. I have been trying to answer everyones questions and opinions. As far as me getting a vet report to know I sent out a 100% healthy boa. I dont have one simply because he has never been to the vet. When I first got him (he and the female), were quaratined like all new animals I get. The both checked out fine. (I do a 30 day quarantine even though some people say it should be longer but my wife hates that I have snakes outside the snake room so 30 days is what I do). He has been totally fine since I have had him. No problems eating, shedding, being aggressive, or anything. I havent had any health problems with him at all that is why I'm questioning David so much. Sure he may have had something internally that I didnt know about but from what I DO know and have seen, that boa has been a healthy and happy animal.
When you mentioned that I think 88F is too hot for a boa and thats what killed him, I NEVER SAID that. I said maybe the cage overheated and killed him, NOT that the 88F temp. killed him. My cages ambient temp is always around 86F and the hot spot ranges around 89F.
I do know correct husbandry on boas, carpets, and balls. I dont deal with other species so I cant say anythign about other species. BUT boas, carpets, and balls, I know quite well. If I didnt, I wouldnt have healthy animals am I right? All the animals I have sold previously before this deal have been healthy and never had any problems or calls back saying 'this happened or that happened'. This is the FIRST time anything like this happened. I dont think you should accuse me of imporper husbandry because of one animal that TO MY KNOWLEDGE and ANYONE ELSES KNOWLEDGE would have said that animal is fine. He didnt look sick, he never was sick, and never had a problem. David looked him over and had him for 2 1/2 days and never said anything was wrong. Based on that I AM TELLING THE TRUTH that he was healthy when he left. Now maybe something happened and caused an illness during shipping for some reason or stress caused something, or possibly brought out an illness that I nor david even saw.
Dont question my animals. You are more than welcome to come over and check every single damn pet in my house and I assure you NOT ONE OF THEM has a problem. If they do have a problem its something that CANT be seen and has to be internally like this boa possibly had that YOU NOR I could tell until something like this happens.
I personally weighed him in just a tub on an electonic scale in my house and him and the plastic tub weighed just under 40 pounds. Based on that I assumed the boa was probably around 37 pounds or so. I tried weighing just the tub on the electonic scale (so I could just subtract that weight with the weight from the boa and the tub to get the EXACT weight of the boa by himself) but it didnt read the weight of the empty tub because the tub was too light for the scale to turn on. (the scale turns on automatically once weight is applied). So I assumed he was around 37 pounds or so to be exact.
His age of 9-10 years seemed accurate to me, and as Chris stated it is accurate.
So his age and weight shouldnt be questioned to me.
Matthew, I am sorry that I missed your post and didnt answer it the first time. I have been trying to answer everyones questions and opinions. As far as me getting a vet report to know I sent out a 100% healthy boa. I dont have one simply because he has never been to the vet. When I first got him (he and the female), were quaratined like all new animals I get. The both checked out fine. (I do a 30 day quarantine even though some people say it should be longer but my wife hates that I have snakes outside the snake room so 30 days is what I do). He has been totally fine since I have had him. No problems eating, shedding, being aggressive, or anything. I havent had any health problems with him at all that is why I'm questioning David so much. Sure he may have had something internally that I didnt know about but from what I DO know and have seen, that boa has been a healthy and happy animal.
When you mentioned that I think 88F is too hot for a boa and thats what killed him, I NEVER SAID that. I said maybe the cage overheated and killed him, NOT that the 88F temp. killed him. My cages ambient temp is always around 86F and the hot spot ranges around 89F.
I do know correct husbandry on boas, carpets, and balls. I dont deal with other species so I cant say anythign about other species. BUT boas, carpets, and balls, I know quite well. If I didnt, I wouldnt have healthy animals am I right? All the animals I have sold previously before this deal have been healthy and never had any problems or calls back saying 'this happened or that happened'. This is the FIRST time anything like this happened. I dont think you should accuse me of imporper husbandry because of one animal that TO MY KNOWLEDGE and ANYONE ELSES KNOWLEDGE would have said that animal is fine. He didnt look sick, he never was sick, and never had a problem. David looked him over and had him for 2 1/2 days and never said anything was wrong. Based on that I AM TELLING THE TRUTH that he was healthy when he left. Now maybe something happened and caused an illness during shipping for some reason or stress caused something, or possibly brought out an illness that I nor david even saw.
Dont question my animals. You are more than welcome to come over and check every single damn pet in my house and I assure you NOT ONE OF THEM has a problem. If they do have a problem its something that CANT be seen and has to be internally like this boa possibly had that YOU NOR I could tell until something like this happens.
john_
New member
I stopped reading at that point. I'm sure your friend is happy you've represented him in such a way.
I know where the door is thanks. I just dont like to see honest people being jerked around. I am all about buyer beware. Not sure what you all will do if it goes away. You may have to go find a life of your own.
CarolinaClassicDragons
New member
lanceheads
Code Red Serpents
and of course,
CarolinaClassicDragons
New member
"Being put out" Mike?? I just picked up this report around 2:30 this afternoon in between meetings. I could go on and on. Sorry I dont spend so much time here. I really dont see much value in this without the tissue culture results but you guys wanted it so there it is.
Grab your dictionaries as I had to!
Willow
O.o
Hmmm....female?
Westcoastchondros
Member
The report says the snake was a female.
Westcoastchondros
Member
my bad it doesn't actually state it is a female, but it states, the reproductive organ consisted of multiple circular structures and is consistent with ovaries...hmmm?
citruslover
California Citrus Dragons
ovaries??? On a proven male??MAN... did this tread just take a turn?
Jeff Crider
It doesnt state that it was a female though. It says possibly female and the reproductive organ consisted of multiple circular structures and is consistent with ovaries, but that doesnt make sense... I'm extremely confused now.
During the initial exam they didnt probe it or can tell 100%? Simply stated "possibly female"?
During the initial exam they didnt probe it or can tell 100%? Simply stated "possibly female"?
ShadowAceD
Lagniappe Exotics
Okay, so ... been following this thread since the beginning and, at this point, yes, I do support a full refund of the animal.
The only reason I sat on the fence before was because it was a great deal of "hear say" in a way. However, now there are many more issues presented that clearly need answers to. I am not even bringing up the gender thing as I hate being captain obvious and it clearly speaks its own issues alone. Confirmed or not, I am sure the gender would have been readily known if it were male.
Now, seeing as how all this has gone and even with just a preliminary report, Yaz, regardless of how this animal died? You need to give a full refund even on just the grounds that you sold him the wrong gender animal. No amount of your technical TOS should default that. Because now what we are looking at is false advertisement and that is a whole 'nother can of worms on its own.
I am sorry it went down this way. I am more sorry for the boa, but it is certainly time to end this. Dragging it out any longer is officially pointless. We can all just learn from these mistakes and be thankful that David is as nice a man as he is for not making this a Bad Guy Thread.
Just my two cents.
I am sorry for the loss on both sides, but it is time to be gentlemen and settle it now.
The only reason I sat on the fence before was because it was a great deal of "hear say" in a way. However, now there are many more issues presented that clearly need answers to. I am not even bringing up the gender thing as I hate being captain obvious and it clearly speaks its own issues alone. Confirmed or not, I am sure the gender would have been readily known if it were male.
Now, seeing as how all this has gone and even with just a preliminary report, Yaz, regardless of how this animal died? You need to give a full refund even on just the grounds that you sold him the wrong gender animal. No amount of your technical TOS should default that. Because now what we are looking at is false advertisement and that is a whole 'nother can of worms on its own.
I am sorry it went down this way. I am more sorry for the boa, but it is certainly time to end this. Dragging it out any longer is officially pointless. We can all just learn from these mistakes and be thankful that David is as nice a man as he is for not making this a Bad Guy Thread.
Just my two cents.
I am sorry for the loss on both sides, but it is time to be gentlemen and settle it now.
Skiploder
New member
........and proven to boot.
Without going back and searching for the relevant post - Yaz, did you ever prove "him" out or was this based on the word of the previous owner?
garweft
Inventor of the Internets
Yaz23 said:
Sorry about jumping to conclusions on the hotspot. I was wrong on that part, it just sounded like that to me. Thank you for the clarification.
Wolfy-hound
New member
- Joined
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Why would a vet have to wait on additional tests to tell if it was definitively a male or female?
The preliminary tests sounds like the snake did indeed have lung infections, and I don't believe it would be that advanced in only 2.5 days. Thanks for posting the preliminary report.
The preliminary tests sounds like the snake did indeed have lung infections, and I don't believe it would be that advanced in only 2.5 days. Thanks for posting the preliminary report.
JCCS
Well-known member
Probing is not always an accurate way of sexing a boa. Visual sexing on adults and rub testing on babies are much more accurate methods.
As for the whole money situation, I don't know about everyone else here, but if I sent someone a snake, and it died in four days, their money would be on the way as soon as I got pictures that verified the illness and/or death.
Also, it should be a full refund. Even if it was unintentional, Yaz sent a sick snake, period. David didn't pay shipping for a sick snake, he paid shipping for a healthy one. I say a full refund of $390 is in order, and Yaz should be lucky David isn't sticking him for the necropsy that he said he wanted to see before sending a refund. If I was David and Yaz wants to continue being a pain in the ass, I would stick him for that too.
These things happen to the best of us, it sucks. I have had to refund someone for a snake that developed a resp before. I took care of it as quickly as possible and tried to make the customer as happy as possible. That person actually became a return customer. That is how these things are supposed to be solved.
Chris Canada-Smith
As for the whole money situation, I don't know about everyone else here, but if I sent someone a snake, and it died in four days, their money would be on the way as soon as I got pictures that verified the illness and/or death.
Also, it should be a full refund. Even if it was unintentional, Yaz sent a sick snake, period. David didn't pay shipping for a sick snake, he paid shipping for a healthy one. I say a full refund of $390 is in order, and Yaz should be lucky David isn't sticking him for the necropsy that he said he wanted to see before sending a refund. If I was David and Yaz wants to continue being a pain in the ass, I would stick him for that too.
These things happen to the best of us, it sucks. I have had to refund someone for a snake that developed a resp before. I took care of it as quickly as possible and tried to make the customer as happy as possible. That person actually became a return customer. That is how these things are supposed to be solved.
Chris Canada-Smith
chris allen
Well-known member
I agree.
Now this is the 2nd animal misrepresented. You caught an attitude when people were really pretty cool about you listing an albino as a sunglow because you said thats what you bought it as so thats what you sold it as. Now, you have a male proven breeder turned possible female that died within 2 days??
Save yourself and I would offer a full refund plus the necropsy costs.....That is doing right by your customer.