A little touchy over at Reptile Haven's site

[ReticEd]

Steve,
Bro,
Ya gotta know we don't take like to have to edit posts, but it does happen..
Anyone thats been there for any amount of time at all has had to have seen edits and understand what they were for...

Anyways,
what you said to mommapython was a little harsh, especially when and if you re-read her post, you would see that she didn't know there were bugs on it untill AFTER it had consticted etc and that since it is a baby BP, that she must have been a new member to the hobby.
A 'heck' would have fit nicely there instead of the other word..
(and you DID say that sometimes you post without thinking at times.. we ALL do..)
And she had probably read that BPs can be finiky at times and didn't want to turn a good feeder into a stubborn nellie....

So she asked.

I didn't post there, as it had been hit with many good answers etc. before I had found it, but if anyone is interested, it is HERE.

As for the misunderstanding, I missed that part.. you mean with Revmojo?
If so, he was picking on ya!

Now onto the Bergers!!!

Once to sell two boas - which were purchased by a moderator who took an ungodly amount of time to pay me. She even had the nerve to tell me that since I asked about payment in a public forum, she'd pay me 'When she got around to it".

Do everyone a favor and add this to the Lori Kehoe threads that are still active in this forum, ty.

As for the six mice for the feeding.. and then to tell everyone that if they know nothing about a species to basically shut up and don't ask??

Wow.. such experts you are..
You know it all about the snakes you sell yet do not even know enough to realize that 6 mice is way too much for a snakes digestive system to handle at one time...
Not to mention the amount of energy spent in swallowing every single one of them... or the excess hair etc etc etc etc....

And then to argue that it was NOT mentioned in a care sheet, so it must be OK...

I think i will start feeding all my snakes rocks.
Dirty rocks from my driveway, covered in oil, antifreeze and transmission fluid drippings..

It HAS to be OK since I never saw a care sheet that says NOT to feed snakes rocks.

I might just feed them all a hot rock, still plugged in of course.. just think of the savings on my power bill when I eliminate all the lights and UTHs etc..

Has to be OK, the caresheets say not to let snakes rest upon hotrocks else they can get burned.. but INSIDE a snakes body, it has to stay just perfect as the snakes digestive fluids surround the hotrock in an ever cool comfort.

It just has to be OK and I will argue till YOU are blue in the face on it just because the caresheets do NOT say I can't do it.

I might duct tape the snakes vents shut too.
Look at the savings on rocks I will have.. If they can't pass digested rocks, they stay full!

The above was all sarcasm, humor, intended to show why reptile forums are here..

Education for us so that we can take great care of our pets.


P.S.
dwedeking, well put.

And about the law requiring minors of a certain age must get parental consent...

Bah..
Just how hard IS it for any minor to make a fake birthyear up, type it in, bypass the age limits and get on the site anyway?
And a lot of sites have a check box, asking if you have parental consent..
How easy is it to just click it 'yes' and get active on a site?

I see it all the time.

Which is why we have rules and enforce them.

For everyone that acted as if they were going to avoid RH/RTB and call it a loser site..

Check it out first, then make up your mind.
Don't knock it till you try it.

Over and out.

 

[E2MacPets]

Ed, good answers all around. You know I respect you and do agree with what you and Daniel have said, I just like playing devil's advocate.

 

[ReticEd]

Playing that can be good for spurring thought
And for many great threads

Now I am wondering how many people are looking at rocks and thinking.. ''Hmmmmm...'

 

[Mark and Aimee]

something is better than nothing

OK, this is Mark's wife. I am sick of this bashing when you do not know the full story...

The scrub in question refused a rat the night before. So we offered her a mouse. She hit it without hesitation. So we fed her more. At least we got her to eat. Some food it always better than no food.

The ball also refused a rat the night before. Again, at least we got him to eat. He was a recent import and to get him to take pre-killed is better than a lot of people ever get.

Common knowledge would prevent you from feeding rocks, taping vents, etc. There is nowhere that we can find that has documented proof that feeding more prey items is harmful to the snake. If you know where some is (and I mean research, strong anticdotal evidence from a reputable source, not just one opinion) please e-mail us a link or where we can find the data. If we were incorrectly feeding, we will change. I still think that SOME food is better than NO food. We are not above admiting we are wrong if someone can PROVE it or provide significan evidence that would indicate so. We learn something new all the time. If we didn't, we wouldn't be doing right be the animals.

Thank you,

Aimee Berger

 

[ReticEd]

Common sense also applies in your case as well...

It would have been better for you to follow the first mouse up with a properly sized rat, just as the back end of the mouse (I see an argument coming here.. what if it ate the mouse backwards and I needed to say 'the front end'....) had gotten into the mouth and placing the rat inside the mouth while the snake was still swallowing the mouse in order to have it continue and swallow the rat.

I have done this in the past when needed and it is common knowledge that this technique works.


Common sense also applies to the energies spent on constricting each prey item and the energies spent in swallowing the items.
It is very possible, that with all the extra skin and hair, along with all the extra constrictions and follow up swallows, that the mice did nothing for the sake of the animal in the end. Especially considering that the animals metabolism shoots off the scale just to digest a normal appropriately sized item.
No telling how much extra energy was consumed in the digestion process in order to make it through the process of digesting extra bones, extra skin, extra hair etc..

Face it.
Someone disagreed with you in a post .
Big deal, it happens on a daily basis.
Most people get over it and forget it and or learn something and move on.

You decided to come here and speak ill of a site that although is not the biggest, or the kindest non offensive reptile site out there, is still a great place for education and enjoying the hobby.

Get over it and move on.
I'm sure you will find a site that people will agree with you on anything you say just so they can rack up there post count by saying 'Cool' 'Wow! It ate SIX?!?!' 'Nice picture' etc etc etc... without giving anything other than basic information and a lot of newbie awe.

But you're the expert here, so I guess you already knew all of this....

 

[ReticEd]

I also forgot to mention other details on a snakes digestive system...

Ever see a regurge?
I have a pic somewhere if it's needed.

Anyways, after looking at many pictures of AND reading about the retic? that was put into an MRI (possibly an ultra sound?) during the digestion process, it can be seen that snakes do NOT just digest the entire contents of its' stomach at the same exact time.

The retic? study AND the pics I and others have seen (i'm sure many people have seen pics of and possibly had a regurge etc) show that the food is digested form one end to the other.
Basically from the back of the stomach, forward, untill the process is done.
The process will be slower than normal with extra hair, skin etc to work through, giving the last few items time to become rancid (rotten for the experts) and create a gas pocket that further reduces the digestion process which leads to even more of the food to become rancid, leading to bigger gas pockets, that when expelled can induce quite a few effects.
One of the effects is a loss of the stomachs fluid.

Another is the digestive system attempts to get the digested/partially digested food out quicker, which can lead to blockages and incompletely digested stools.

And regurges. The dreaded regurge... Which on its' own is another big issue, one that in MANY cases can be avoided with good care and husbandry.

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

OK...I didn't have a problem with the posting of my photos without my permission because your attempt at whatever you were trying to pull just didn't strike a nerve. but both of the people who's images are plastered on that post aren't happy because of the intention that they were posted under. Neither Morti nor My fiance, Megan were any part of this discussion and have asked that these photos be removed at once either by berger boy or by an admin of this site if needed. I hereby revoke any previous granting of permission to use for any reason any photo off my website or my online photo album. I make my living in photography and I own the rights of every one of these photos and unless you have my permission to use them, you are in direct violation of copyright laws and I will prosecute to the full extent of the law. Remove them now and do not use them again without asking.

 

[Mark and Aimee]

Get over it and move on.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Mark and Aimee]

Neither Morti nor My fiance, Megan were any part of this discussion and have asked that these photos be removed at once either by berger boy or by an admin of this site if needed.

I believe "Morti" brought himself into this conversation, but that's besides the point.

It would be halfways appropriate for you to at least ask in a civil manner. Or you could change the file names on your web site. After all, the images are being pulled directly from your site!

But just for you Brett, I'll alter the URLs. I apologize for not asking permission to make fun of you.

 

[ReticEd]

It would be halfways appropriate for you to at least ask in a civil manner. Or you could change the file names on your web site.

Hmmm... you didn't give Brett the courtesy of asking (in a civil manner) for the use of the photos, which still counts for links from his site. (and were not used in a civil manner...)
And why should he have to do the work of changing his site when you are the one that used HIS pics without prior consent?

(edited by ReticEd to take out a cheap shot...)

 

[HerpVenue]

I believe this post was started because of a certain word that was edited on another site.

I would just like to add.

I moderate a couple other sites. There are more than one site that have the word edited.

 

[Mark and Aimee]

Hmmm... you didn't give Brett the courtesy of asking (in a civil manner) for the use of the photos,

I'll give you that one. I didn't.

 

[SPJ]

OK, this is getting out of control.

I originally started this thread because of a misunderstanding between myself and another member (CaptainMorgan) on Reptile Haven because he thought the edit was due to me being malicious to him and did not know the edit was to change one word to heck. My personal opinion is that the site is trying to be too politically correct. God forbid anyone get offended by "H E double L". But that is only my opinion.

So...... No more unnaproved words will be posted there by me.

Just stop bashing each other.

Mark had a disagreement with Brett. Fine. Don't have all the mods and admins gang up on him now.

This thread has gotten so far off track.

BTW, even though Mark feeds his animals contrary to how you do, I can tell you from personal experience that his animals are healthy.

 

[Donnie Smith]

Steve, any time you post something in a public forum... especially over here for some reason, you run the risk of it getting way out of hand and becoming something that you didn't intend.

A couple of well placed e-mails or IM's could have had this misunderstanding taken care of, but you chose to air this in public.

Personally, I am not bashing anyone. I stated a couple of facts and a couple of oppinions without getting into the arguement.

I would be perfectly pleased if everyone would stop shouting at everyone else. It is my humble oppinion that everyone involved in this thread would be perfectly amicable if they met in person and talked about this over a drink of their choice.

Feel the love.
-Donnie "Morti" Smith.

 

[RevMojo]

Hey Steve...I was the one that complained. But to be fair, it was about the use of it in the other post, where you asked "why the ----did you let it keeping eating it" or whatever it was you said. And it wasn't even so much the use of that particular word, (I didn't edit it when I quoted you, so I suppose I'm just as guilty) but the manner in which you used it toward a brand new member. But I pointed it out there as well, and you apologized to her, which I thought was big of you. Then it got noticed in your other posts.

I agree with RTB.net's very conservative policy on language. There are several younger members and while it's easy enough to say "but they're going to hear/read it anyway," why make RTB.net just one more place they can? As Brett has said, there are so many other words that are just as effective, and not offensive to anyone.

Rev. Scott "Mojo" Graham

 

[ReticEd]

Mark had a disagreement with Brett. Fine. Don't have all the mods and admins gang up on him now

Steve,
We were notified in mail by a member of this site and others.. ALL of the mods and admins were sent mail on it.

Of course we are going to come here and look.

As for The hamBerglers,
They came in AFTER you said your piece in the first post, adding things not related to your post at all.
Then they used pics without permission.

They are followers, not leaders in this, so they got toasted for their actions in their posts.
Here and RH/RTB.

But for the language, I can probably give at least 10 examples of better words for every curse word anyone can post.
There is no need for that kind of language.

Even worse that a misunderstanding happened due to the edit, but that is something that (as others stated) should have been taken to pm instead of here. (everyone has done this, even myself.)

It really bugs me when someone posts in the manner that you two did, then complain that we are bashing each other there and here. A simple thing taken way out of proportion by several parties, some on the admin side as well.

Steve, I sent you a pm here, ya get it?

 

[SPJ]

Rev, gotta agree with you. The context of what I am typing sometimes comes across as harsher than I ever meant it to be. My wife constantly tells me "it's not what you say but how you say it".

Ed, got your PM and replied. It should be in your PM folder. I never meant for any of you to not come here and post by what I said. It was just getting out of hand with the other posts that had nothing to do with the original topic.

 

[HerpVenue]

Bellow is a quote from Mario Stinso of www.geckonetwork.com about the lates happenings

Just like the other day, some loyal fauna member had brought up a other competing forum/site for ridicule. But what for? What horrible thing could have Reptile Haven did wrong? I’ll tell you, they moderated their forum by keeping it family friendly by editing profanity. The word H E double hockey sticks. I’m sure you can figure out the word. You know, I believe we even moderated that word in the past as well. It isn’t appropriate for a family style forum. But yet, members of fauna would like to ridicule them for moderating the forum and attempting to keep it family friendly. Even Fauna’s own Ken Harbart was quick to attack the competing forum for this by posting “I personally think the whole notion of being "inoffensive" has gone a bit too far. If someone's sensebilities are so delicate as to be offended by the words "h#ll" or "d#mn", then the internet is the last place they need to be. As for saying, "it's for the children," perhaps we should lock them in their rooms with no access whatsoever to the outside world- this is the only way possible to keep them from hearing or seeing these words.”

Mario a little suprise to you. member(S) of fauna is not attacking reptile haven. ONE (1) member voiced his opinion. which he has the right to do.

Let me clue you in mario. A lot of the members of reptile haven are also members here.

let me clue you in mario. A lot of the moderators and admin for reptile haven are also members of fauna.

Let me clue you in mario. Fauna is highly recommended by the members and admins and moderators of reptilehaven.

Let me clue you in mario these are the admins for Reptile haven

Admins Listing
captainmorgan
Constrictor_BO
eddie
faze
HerpinHippie
JuliusSqueezer
ldydrgn
morti
Ravnos
trinitywolf

these are the moderators for Reptile Haven

Moderators Listing
BadKarma
Boaguy
Bry
BWSmith
GizmO
herp_chick
herpkingdom
joerissa
MED04
Reptscue
Ritchie <----I wonder who that guy is? His name matches mine
savannah_babe
Stormyva
TheReverendMojo

p.s. mario unlike you. I will not be a moderator for my "competitors" site. I WILL be moderator for my firends sites.
I consider a MAJORITY of people at reptile haven to be my friends.
I consider the owner to be my friend. I have been with them since they started. I was one of the first few people to Join their site. I am PROUD member number 17. And I believe I still have my banners on their banner thing. And if it is no longer their.....it was just something that happened recently.

 

[WebSlave]

I guess I should be rather reluctant to throw gasoline onto this fire, but the latest email from Mr. Brett Gardin is rather interesting and perhaps reflective of the undercurrent in the beginning of this thread.

But, let's start at the beginning.

I received the following email from Megan Harris at 11:10pm on 9/01/03:

Hi Rich. My name is Megan Davis. Ritchie Luna gave me your email address in hopes that you would be able to help me. I am writing to you regarding the post mentioned in the subject line. Two of my pictures (the second and the fourth pictures) were posted by Mark Berger without my permission and I would like them removed from the thread. I understand you do not know me personally, however it takes a lot to make me angry and when I came across this thread I was furious! I went so far as to find Mark Berger's home phone number and if the pictures I requested to be removed are not removed by noon tomorrow (9/2) I have no problem calling Mr. Berger. It is only out of respect for any children he may have that I did not call this evening. I appreciate any assistance you are able to give in this matter. Please keep me updated regarding the status of my request at [email protected]

Thank you,
Megan Davis

OK. Since I had not been following that thread, I really had no idea what she was talking about, but a quick glance at the thread showed some photographs, sure enough, but with nothing I could see as any means for me to determine ownership at a glance.

So I sent her the following email at 11:56pm on 9/01/03:

At the very least you will need to post within that thread claiming your ownership of those photos. I just cannot go and delete something someone else posted without evidence that my actions were proper and warranted. You could be absolutely anyone sending this email to me. I hope you can see that there has to be some method of accountability for my actions in something like this.

Thanks.

Hmm, guess my answer wasn't good enough for her, as I received this following email at 9:37am on 9/02/03:

I do not belong to that site and I have no intention of joining just to post that I want my pictures removed. I will be calling Mr. Berger if they are not removed by noon. Thank you.

Megan Davis

So, is this some sort of ultimatum to me? Heck, I'm not sure, but definitely an attitude showing through between the lines.

As such, I sent her the following email on 11:35am on 9/02/03:

Interesting attitude from someone asking for my help in this situation.

Suit yourself.

But please don't bother me again, if that is the way you want it, as I will have nothing to do with your situation concerning Mr. Berger.

And I figured that was the end of it all.

But lo and behold, I get the following email from Mr. Gardin himself at 8:20pm on 9/02/03:

Hi Rich, this is JuliusSqueezer aka Brett Gardin.

I have been around a while and have always enjoyed the fauna classifieds and the BOI boards...We, the admins at Redtailboa.net, myself included, have always been very positive in promoting your site. I have heard from many many people over the past few years that you were a total asshole - piece of work. I blew it off as childish name calling...however today, I see a small taste of your true colors and tend to agree with them.

I am a professional photographer and I have a small website promoting my business. Some kid named Mark Berger whom I apparantly insulted by questioning his poor husbandry skills decided to flame me on your site after bailing from ours and posted several photographs my site with an insulting little dialog that only served to make him look foolish and didn't really bother me. My fiance, Megan Davis however was not thrilled to be thrown into the middle of the foolishness and emailed Richie for help, he told her to email you...I think she thought you were the same person...I really am not clear on that. She is not active on these boards lately and just wanted her photos removed. Mr Berger was in copyright violation and she was not out of line by asking. Your response however was out of line and very unprofessional. Just thought you should know how more than a few people feel in case noone else has the balls to point it out to you. Have a great day!

Brett Gardin

Gee, I am crushed.....

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

Rich, I don't know what grade you are in but when you get into grade school, you will learn to read the words and not just look at the pictures. Nothing you could see to determine ownership of the photos?
How about this?

Folks... I didn't come up with these pics from just anywhere. This is just a sampling of Brett's quality work.