about siklback and their husbandry

[SteveHiss]

While this animal is causing an uproar in the beardie community, eyeless turtles are causing an uproar with turtle people. What's the difference between them? None that I see, both are mutants because of a serious genetic defect, and both are causing concern in their respective communities.

I see a difference between the two. To me, an eyeless turtle is not desirable because the animal is of course blind, and cannot behave like a "normal" turtle, therefore it's quality of life would be much less than a normal, seeing turtle. So far however, according to the originator of the Silkback, there is nothing to indicate that the Silkback has any less quality of life than a regular scaled beardie.

 

[KelliH]

I apologize; the above post was actually made by me. I didn't realize that my husband was still logged in. I'll pay closer attention to that from now on, sorry!

 

[whiskersmom]

I see a difference between the two. To me, an eyeless turtle is not desirable because the animal is of course blind, and cannot behave like a "normal" turtle, therefore it's quality of life would be much less than a normal, seeing turtle. So far however, according to the originator of the Silkback, there is nothing to indicate that the Silkback has any less quality of life than a regular scaled beardie.

I'm very glad that you feel you can trust a person that you don't even know but I don't see how it would be possible for this animal to maintain the same quality of life like their cousins....beardies with scales. I am not calling this person I liar, as I don't know him well enough to do so. But his account or Dachius accounts is not proof to me.
If their skin is like that of a pinkie how is it possible for them to mate without ripping the female up? How will it tolerate as high as temps needed to digest like normal dragons? I just can't see how they can have the same husbandry that they so desperately need to keep them healthy without scales. As they may look like a different animal, I'm assuming on the inside they are the same animal.
The scales are to bearded dragons like skin is to us....isn't it safe to say that this is akin to people being born without their skin?

 

[Tere Salazar]

I see a difference between the two. To me, an eyeless turtle is not desirable because the animal is of course blind, and cannot behave like a "normal" turtle, therefore it's quality of life would be much less than a normal, seeing turtle. So far however, according to the originator of the Silkback, there is nothing to indicate that the Silkback has any less quality of life than a regular scaled beardie.

The issue I have there, though, is that they may not have problems with them right this minute. I just hope nobody ever tries to breed a female silk. She would get torn up in more ways than one. No matter how well she supposedly heals, those scales are there for a reason.

There's also the issue that what we're seeing is what's going on on the outside. It's going to be a while before anyone knows what else has been affected that we can't see.

 

[Valley Dragons]

I'm very glad that you feel you can trust a person that you don't even know but I don't see how it would be possible for this animal to maintain the same quality of life like their cousins....beardies with scales. I am not calling this person I liar, as I don't know him well enough to do so. But his account or Dachius accounts is not proof to me.
If their skin is like that of a pinkie how is it possible for them to mate without ripping the female up? How will it tolerate as high as temps needed to digest like normal dragons? I just can't see how they can have the same husbandry that they so desperately need to keep them healthy without scales. As they may look like a different animal, I'm assuming on the inside they are the same animal.
The scales are to bearded dragons like skin is to us....isn't it safe to say that this is akin to people being born without their skin?

I believe the question about temperature and digestion has been throughly answered.


Jamie

 

[Ken Harbart]

The scales are to bearded dragons like skin is to us....isn't it safe to say that this is akin to people being born without their skin?

Actually, no. They are not anatomic homologues.

 

[whiskersmom]

Actually, no. They are not anatomic homologues.

I guess I'm not understanding your point. Since I wasn't familiar with the "homologues" I did a search and this is what I found.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homology_(biology)

And I still don't understand your point.

 

[whiskersmom]

Sorry, the link doesn't work.....but this is what it states.

In evolutionary biology, homology is any similarity between characters that is due to their shared ancestry. There are examples in different branches of biology. Anatomical structures that perform the same function in different biological species and evolved from the same structure in some ancestor species are homologous. In genetics, homology is measured by comparing protein or DNA sequences, and genes that share a high sequence identity or similarity support the hypothesis that they share a common ancestor and are therefore homologous. Sequence homology may also indicate common function. Homologous chromosomes are non-identical chromosomes that can pair (synapse) during meiosis, and are believed to share common ancestry.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Simply put.
Skin of humans and scales of dragons don't have the ancestry or perform the same function. It wouldn't be the same.

isn't it safe to say that this is akin to people being born without their skin

 

[whiskersmom]

I think you'll are missing my point. My point is we would probably face many disadvantages without our skin, why isn't it the sample principle for lizards.

Are we splitting hairs, here?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I think you'll are missing my point. My point is we would probably face many disadvantages without our skin, why isn't it the sample principle for lizards.

Are we splitting hairs, here?

I was just trying to help you with Ken's post.

 

[whiskersmom]

Thank you Dennis.

 

[Denisebme]

I see a difference between the two. To me, an eyeless turtle is not desirable because the animal is of course blind, and cannot behave like a "normal" turtle, therefore it's quality of life would be much less than a normal, seeing turtle. So far however, according to the originator of the Silkback, there is nothing to indicate that the Silkback has any less quality of life than a regular scaled beardie.

There is also nothing to indicate that they have the same quality of life. Beardies have scales for a reason, and that reason becomes readily apparent when they breed. Can you imagine something with skin similar to a leopard gecko put into a cage with a bearded dragon for breeding purposes?
Unless every person who gets one of these little mutants guarantees they aren't going to breed, its only a matter of time before one is seriously injured. Ask anyone who has ever had their adult beardies in their laps with shorts on what their claws are capable of in what is really a non-aggressive situation, and there is nothing wrong with OUR skin. My guess is most of us have been gouged at one time or another.

 

[Tere Salazar]

I was just trying to help you with Ken's post.

Dennis, I don't think Sherri was referring to you splitting hairs.

 

[Tere Salazar]

There is also nothing to indicate that they have the same quality of life. Beardies have scales for a reason, and that reason becomes readily apparent when they breed. Can you imagine something with skin similar to a leopard gecko put into a cage with a bearded dragon for breeding purposes?
Unless every person who gets one of these little mutants guarantees they aren't going to breed, its only a matter of time before one is seriously injured. Ask anyone who has ever had their adult beardies in their laps with shorts on what their claws are capable of in what is really a non-aggressive situation, and there is nothing wrong with OUR skin. My guess is most of us have been gouged at one time or another.

Well, aside from the fact that I haven't shaved my legs in a few days, I don't think anyone would want to see all the claw marks from holding dragons.

And let's not forget those teeth! I've been bit by a beardie hard enough to break the skin on my hand. I would hate to think how that would have been if the skin were more tender, say around the neck area, or eyelid, for example.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

IF the skin is as delicate as implied in the one description(like a pinkie's skin) then they would not be able to be bred. But according the the other, the skin is quite tough, and hasn't been an issue.
It's not the same to say that it's like a human without skin. The beardie HAS skin, has the same type of skin, just not as formed, so it didn't form the scales.
IF the skin is tough enough to withstand breeding without injury(or without more injury than normal breeding like happens with normal scaled beardies) then I don't particularly see the issue.
IF the skin is prone to being torn up and is easily injured, then there is your physical issue.
Allessandro said that the skin isn't an issue. The dragon doesn't need special handling to preserve the skin. If the silkback's skin can withstand NORMAL wear and tear, then it should be fine, if weird looking. AS LONG AS no other complications arise later on.
It's the same as other morphs though. There could be other genetic problems later on, but you won't know if they are perfect except for no scales until they've been bred.
They are still no more of a mutant than a pastel ball python.
I'd like to see more information about how tough that skin is. If it's really delicate and prone to injury, then I'd say that's not good at all for a beardie. If it LOOKS delicate, but is actually pretty tough, then I wouldn't have issue with it.

What exactly is it that you think the silkback CAN'T do that a normal beardie can? Other than breeding, I think everything else was covered in the information early on. They eat, they bask, they run around. They don't break open by brushing up against things accoding to the OP.
Perhaps the description on the other website(pinkie skin) is the misleading bit? Maybe they should have said skin that LOOKS like a pinkie mouse's? Because the OP says different and they are the originater.
Saying that we shouldn't trust the OP is rather silly, since the OP and ONE OTHER PERSON are the only holders of the silkback at this point. Since you don't trust the other holder, you are reduced to ONE person who owns and holds the silkback. Why should we listen to people who've never held one? The only information that I would consider crediable is information from people with direct experiance.
If there is OTHER sources of information on the silkback, then I'd love to see it. So far there's two people with them that have come forward. Both of them own some.

 

[puppytoes72]

IF the skin is as delicate as implied in the one description(like a pinkie's skin) then they would not be able to be bred. But according the the other, the skin is quite tough, and hasn't been an issue.
It's not the same to say that it's like a human without skin. The beardie HAS skin, has the same type of skin, just not as formed, so it didn't form the scales.
IF the skin is tough enough to withstand breeding without injury(or without more injury than normal breeding like happens with normal scaled beardies) then I don't particularly see the issue.
IF the skin is prone to being torn up and is easily injured, then there is your physical issue.
Allessandro said that the skin isn't an issue. The dragon doesn't need special handling to preserve the skin. If the silkback's skin can withstand NORMAL wear and tear, then it should be fine, if weird looking. AS LONG AS no other complications arise later on.
It's the same as other morphs though. There could be other genetic problems later on, but you won't know if they are perfect except for no scales until they've been bred.
They are still no more of a mutant than a pastel ball python.
I'd like to see more information about how tough that skin is. If it's really delicate and prone to injury, then I'd say that's not good at all for a beardie. If it LOOKS delicate, but is actually pretty tough, then I wouldn't have issue with it.

What exactly is it that you think the silkback CAN'T do that a normal beardie can? Other than breeding, I think everything else was covered in the information early on. They eat, they bask, they run around. They don't break open by brushing up against things accoding to the OP.
Perhaps the description on the other website(pinkie skin) is the misleading bit? Maybe they should have said skin that LOOKS like a pinkie mouse's? Because the OP says different and they are the originater.
Saying that we shouldn't trust the OP is rather silly, since the OP and ONE OTHER PERSON are the only holders of the silkback at this point. Since you don't trust the other holder, you are reduced to ONE person who owns and holds the silkback. Why should we listen to people who've never held one? The only information that I would consider crediable is information from people with direct experiance.
If there is OTHER sources of information on the silkback, then I'd love to see it. So far there's two people with them that have come forward. Both of them own some.

correct,there are 2 holders of the silkback and they EACH tell a different story.

 

[Tere Salazar]

correct,there are 2 holders of the silkback and they EACH tell a different story.

That is exactly right. One says the skin is like an eyelid or pinkie mouse. Would you want a beardie biting an eyelid? I sure wouldn't. And I've seen what they can do to a pinkie mouse with one bite.

Then shortly after concern was raised over this particular issue, the story was changed to, no, the skin is tough like a normal beardies, only no scales.

WHICH IS IT?

I'm not sure if maybe I'm reading something different than everyone else, but from what I understood, the mutants require a higher humidity and frequent mistings. I would consider that specialized care for a bearded dragon, particularly when increased humidity can cause other health issues.

 

[Denisebme]

IF the skin is as delicate as implied in the one description(like a pinkie's skin) then they would not be able to be bred. But according the the other, the skin is quite tough, and hasn't been an issue.
It's not the same to say that it's like a human without skin. The beardie HAS skin, has the same type of skin, just not as formed, so it didn't form the scales.
IF the skin is tough enough to withstand breeding without injury(or without more injury than normal breeding like happens with normal scaled beardies) then I don't particularly see the issue.
IF the skin is prone to being torn up and is easily injured, then there is your physical issue.
Allessandro said that the skin isn't an issue. The dragon doesn't need special handling to preserve the skin. If the silkback's skin can withstand NORMAL wear and tear, then it should be fine, if weird looking. AS LONG AS no other complications arise later on.
It's the same as other morphs though. There could be other genetic problems later on, but you won't know if they are perfect except for no scales until they've been bred.
They are still no more of a mutant than a pastel ball python.
I'd like to see more information about how tough that skin is. If it's really delicate and prone to injury, then I'd say that's not good at all for a beardie. If it LOOKS delicate, but is actually pretty tough, then I wouldn't have issue with it.

What exactly is it that you think the silkback CAN'T do that a normal beardie can? Other than breeding, I think everything else was covered in the information early on. They eat, they bask, they run around. They don't break open by brushing up against things accoding to the OP.
Perhaps the description on the other website(pinkie skin) is the misleading bit? Maybe they should have said skin that LOOKS like a pinkie mouse's? Because the OP says different and they are the originater.
Saying that we shouldn't trust the OP is rather silly, since the OP and ONE OTHER PERSON are the only holders of the silkback at this point. Since you don't trust the other holder, you are reduced to ONE person who owns and holds the silkback. Why should we listen to people who've never held one? The only information that I would consider crediable is information from people with direct experiance.
If there is OTHER sources of information on the silkback, then I'd love to see it. So far there's two people with them that have come forward. Both of them own some.

Since most of the people commenting on this thread actually OWN beardies and are familiar with their behavior, that qualifies us to comment.
Yes, the skin was described on ONE of the websites of ONE of the breeders that has this thing in their possession that the skin is similar to that of a pinky or eyelid. Since they have the thing, you would think they had held it, felt it and looked at it, right? Since they have experience with "normal" dragons and what would appear a motivation to make this mutation seem as harmless as possible, one would ask what would make them put a quote on their website that would make it look more vulnerable then absolutely necessary. My guess is that is not what happened and they were actually trying to accurately describe it, pinky skin and all.

 

[Otter_23]

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this post but is this kind of the same as the derma ball (without scales)?