about siklback and their husbandry

[walker75]

If not retiring from breeding, because i just don't see you doing that... you should Test ALL of your dragons POST those results, and STOP producing those infected animals that includes this years babies. You and all others LIKE you... should be working toward the BETTERMENT of the species as a whole


Your right she would never retire from breedring dragons, Yes I think she should have already tested, for herself anyway and maybe she has just doesn't want the information out.

It is now time for Vicki to be a leader and do the right thing remember in her sarcastic way she said it is not about money right? So test them all and give the results here on fauna and also to Denise and Jamie it would go along way. I also believe others would follow behind her if she truly is a women of her word and speaks truth and wants truth known.. Let her bring this information forward asap.

 

[Denisebme]

Okay, so please put this on a kindergarten level for me....did Denise's results get verified by someone of unbiased view (such as Dennis or Kelli) or not?

I really don't think this is picking on Denise...I think people just want facts and proof. If you are going to put yourself out there on a public forum and make a strong stand, then you have to have the balls to back up what you claim, imho. If it were me, I would have a hard-copy posted on my website where everyone could see the results and form their own opinion (sorry if this has already been done).

Jamie

You obviously missed something Jamie. I sent my results to someone back in April to hang onto, and I have already contacted him to find out if he would be willing to post what he has seen with his own eyes here.
Second, I have always maintained my own website, but I have only a basic knowledge to work with. I would love to have an automatic form on my website that would email the test results and verification information built into it, but didn't know how to make it work. Turns out, I didn't have to know because someone else just stepped forward to do it for me.
And lastly, as of this morning, we are also going to pursue this as a legal matter and will be acting on the advice of our attorney.

 

[Valley Dragons]

Test results are great - but they are meaningless unless we know the health status of each animal that tests positive. For example, if Vicky were to test and posts the results of her breeding colony - and her colony happens to be healthy, thriving adenovirus-positive dragons - then I think that this says one of two things. One - adenovirus is not a killer, or two - there are various strains, and the one that happens to be carried by Dachiu's stock is not one of the bad one. Now if Vicky has animals that die on a regular basis, that also happen to test positive for adenovirus, then we can start to consider that this virus is a potential problem.

Jamie

 

[Valley Dragons]

You obviously missed something Jamie. I sent my results to someone back in April to hang onto, and I have already contacted him to find out if he would be willing to post what he has seen with his own eyes here.
Second, I have always maintained my own website, but I have only a basic knowledge to work with. I would love to have an automatic form on my website that would email the test results and verification information built into it, but didn't know how to make it work. Turns out, I didn't have to know because someone else just stepped forward to do it for me.
And lastly, as of this morning, we are also going to pursue this as a legal matter and will be acting on the advice of our attorney.

Good for you. I hope that others here that have had to endure harsh slander and possible damage to their business will pursue legal action as well.

Jamie

 

[Tere Salazar]

or two - the one that happens to be carried by Dachiu's stock is not one of the bad one.

Jamie

My freezer and I can assure you this is NOT the case.

 

[Valley Dragons]

Second, I have always maintained my own website, but I have only a basic knowledge to work with. I would love to have an automatic form on my website that would email the test results and verification information built into it, but didn't know how to make it work. Turns out, I didn't have to know because someone else just stepped forward to do it for me.

Do you have a scanner on your computer? You could always just scan the results, save to a file, and simply publish it to your website. No need for fancy forms and automatic emails.

Jamie

 

[Valley Dragons]

My freezer and I can assure you this is NOT the case.

Okay, I miss things here and there, so be patient with me. So ALL of your stock came from Dachiu? Because if ALL of your dragons were not from Dachiu, and if they came into contact or indirect contact with ANY dragons from ANY other source, the you CANNOT assume that your dragons were infected with a virulent from of adenovirus from Dachiu.

Jamie

 

[whiskersmom]

Do you have a scanner on your computer? You could always just scan the results, save to a file, and simply publish it to your website. No need for fancy forms and automatic emails.

Jamie

It blows my mind that this is coming from someone who has never published her results.....oh wait, have you even tested your bearded dragons yet, Valley Dragons?

 

[Valley Dragons]

It blows my mind that this is coming from someone who has never published her results.....oh wait, have you even tested your bearded dragons yet, Valley Dragons?

If YOU kept up with the posts, you would have seen that I am in the process, and I plan to post the entire hard-copy on my website for everyone to see.

Jamie

 

[walker75]

two - there are various strains, and the one that happens to be carried by Dachiu's stock is not one of the bad one. Now if Vicky has animals that die on a regular basis, that also happen to test positive for adenovirus, then we can start to consider that this virus is a potential problem.
~~~~~~
I believe that there are various strains of this virus, maybe she does maybe she does not have the deadly virus. Thing is she and other breeders have known about this and the different strains for years and still hid this from the community and they also still sold the positive dragons. No information has ever been given about this virus to the reptile community only a select few breeder knew and they kept this amongst themselves. That is why Denise has been harassed..


Thing is it may be to late for Vicky to help as she has consistently lied and blew smoke screens that her word is useless....

Really what will happen to this silkback now and who will she give it to to breed as she said she would not BUT she did not say someone else would not take her place.

Oh and Jamie adenovirus is a problem not a potential one it is here and can be problematic

 

[mikey]

My freezer and I can assure you this is NOT the case.

In all fairness to Vickie, my original group of dragons are said to be from Dachiu, and I purchased them on Reptibid from a guy that said he bought wholesale from Vickie. Because they didn't come directly from Vickie, and because I didn't do any testing until the beginning of this year, I can't say that they were positive when they left the Dachiu facility. Anyway, that original group consists of Aphrodite, Fiera, Athena, Apollo, Angel and Ivory. Aphrodite, Fiera, and Athena are all living and Fiera and Athena test positive.

Apollo, Angel and Ivory all passed away late 2005/early 2006, and no necropsy was performed. I did not test any of them for Adenovirus. Of Apollo's offspring, and that I have been notified of, 1 currently tests negative, 2 test positive. Apollo's "widow", the mother to those offspring, tests negative.

Newer additions to our group who were acquired directly from Dachiu (but not necessarily by me) include Hercules, who tests positive, and Annie, who I no longer own, and has not been tested by her new owners, as they claim she is a pretty pet, nothing more.

Reptibid + 3rd party=Dachiu ?

 

[Tere Salazar]

If YOU kept up with the posts, you would have seen that I am in the process, and I plan to post the entire hard-copy on my website for everyone to see.

Jamie

Seeing that you're currently selling babies, don't you think maybe you should have started this process back when you first heard about this?

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Test results are great - but they are meaningless unless we know the health status of each animal that tests positive. For example, if Vicky were to test and posts the results of her breeding colony - and her colony happens to be healthy, thriving adenovirus-positive dragons - then I think that this says one of two things. One - adenovirus is not a killer, or two - there are various strains, and the one that happens to be carried by Dachiu's stock is not one of the bad one. Now if Vicky has animals that die on a regular basis, that also happen to test positive for adenovirus, then we can start to consider that this virus is a potential problem.

Jamie

I would not start on "different Strains" unless you know for 100% fact that there ARE different strains. If you do know, have you specifically done the testing and experiments to find out? if you dont know personally, where might you have found that information? or is it just something you Magically thought up to try to spin the thread in your favor?

Adeno is a killer, just not as direct as youre now making it sound to be, which i personally have not claimed it to do. it is not like IBD in boids, which is a fast killer once set in motion. ( faster in pythons, slower a little in boas)

Adenovirus is not OKAY no matter how hard you and others try to make it sound that way. These games will not fly. Dragons Die at birth because of it, Noone with the virus talks about those animals...., and dragons can get weaker because of it as well.

You tell me one GOOD thing thats come about in the dragons infected by this virus, and dragons continuing to be infected by it.... and ill give you a cookie.

I bet you cant....

 

[Denisebme]

I have a question; why does it have to be Dennis or kelli that verifies this document? Is there no other respected members on this forum that can be trusted....just Dennis and Kelli?
And....why is it that Vickie get's to make that decision anyways? Who died and left her God?
In my opinion, there are alot of other members that haven't been involved with this thread and are respected and are trustworthy that could do the job.

Valley Dragons, if you read the posts, Denise has already had them verified...it's just a matter of time....people have job's and lives other then this forum. Give it a minute, please.

My opinion hasn't changed. This isn't and has never been about the tests. Dennis told me months ago that just sending my test results to him wouldn't stop the criticism and bull on the BOI, he was right then, he is just as right now.
Back then, if you recall what happened, first it was about me, then it was about the tests, and once it appeared that I was telling the truth, it became about the reliability of the tests, then we were back to the tests don't matter. Its always going to be the same story.
There really is only one thing that will end up stopping this in the end, and that is turning it around and putting it into the legal arena. People have been telling me that for months, I just have a habit of stubbornly doing things my own way.

 

[Valley Dragons]

I would not start on "different Strains" unless you know for 100% fact that there ARE different strains. If you do know, have you specifically done the testing and experiments to find out? if you dont know personally, where might you have found that information? or is it just something you Magically thought up to try to spin the thread in your favor?

I'm pretty sure that I did not come up with that possible theory all on my own. It might have been something I read in that little paper that come out recently from the U of F. But if you want to credit me - I'll let you!

 

[Denisebme]

Test results are great - but they are meaningless unless we know the health status of each animal that tests positive. For example, if Vicky were to test and posts the results of her breeding colony - and her colony happens to be healthy, thriving adenovirus-positive dragons - then I think that this says one of two things. One - adenovirus is not a killer, or two - there are various strains, and the one that happens to be carried by Dachiu's stock is not one of the bad one. Now if Vicky has animals that die on a regular basis, that also happen to test positive for adenovirus, then we can start to consider that this virus is a potential problem.

Jamie

What drives me crazy here is that you really can't have it both ways. The tests are either great, or they are meaningless, they can't be both.
The huge problem with the research as done of the University of Florida is that they aren't publishing any statistical data on the animals that they test, and as far as I know, no one is, which is always going to leave a question as to how much stock you can place in the research.
For a lot of us, this isn't a "potential" problem. We've heard from breeders who have had die offs and from people caring for sick dragons, and that first hand information is enough for us to make a decision.

 

[Denisebme]

Do you have a scanner on your computer? You could always just scan the results, save to a file, and simply publish it to your website. No need for fancy forms and automatic emails.

Jamie

Why in the world would I do it that way Jamie?
In the end, I'm the one who paid for the testing, and believe it or not, I don't owe a single person on this discussion anything. I can publish my results or not publish them, take out a full page ad in the New York times of use them for toilet paper and its absolutely no ones business here but mine.
Here's the thing, no matter what I have chosen to do, its still legally actionable if someone else knowingly publishes slander in order to purposely do harm to your reputation.
I'm not a fool. This issue came up once again here to effectively kill the debate on the silkback. Its not about my results, its about ending an uncomfortable debate. It was a pretty effective diversion too.

 

[Valley Dragons]

Seeing that you're currently selling babies, don't you think maybe you should have started this process back when you first heard about this?

If I had sick babies or problems with my animals, then testing would have been more of a priority.

Jamie

 

[Dennis Hultman]

And lastly, as of this morning, we are also going to pursue this as a legal matter and will be acting on the advice of our attorney.

Honestly, from an outside perspective, I think there have been many statements made on many fronts that would appear to be problematic if a legal route were taken. That’s a dangerous area to venture and once it starts that direction you never know where it might lead you. Just an opinion.
Common sense and passions about what is right and wrong don't always fall inline with the legal system.

 

[Denisebme]

Good for you. I hope that others here that have had to endure harsh slander and possible damage to their business will pursue legal action as well.

Jamie

The ONLY other "harsh criticism" I have heard is from people who don't want to do business with someone who is not testing their animals, and while it has been pointed toward some of the breeders not testing, its actually well within the consumers right to take a stand on the issue.
What you can't do is publish information that is false and there is no exception for ignorance.