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Adenovirus questions

willows chelle

willows chelle

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Hello!

I am just curious how many breeders are actually testing their stock before selling now since this virus wiped out so many beardies.

I know it is old news to most, however, as an owner of just one beardie, I am reluctant to even think of getting another dragon due to the virus running so rampant.

Is there anyone out there that would recommend a bearded dragon breeder who is careful about screening his stock? I am not worried about a guarantee, I am terrified to get my fat old man dragon sick!

I see plenty of dragon breeders out there flashing their gorgeous lizards all over, but very few even mention the virus, and the ones that do mention it are either not selling b/c of it, OR they are just stating that they do not test for it, so tough luck if the new dragon they send you ends up making your other lizards sick.

BTW, I would quarrentine, but I have heard enough horror stories to know its better to just avoid it all together!.

Thanks! :thumbsup:
 
That link just makes me more concerned. The three breeders listed either have positive dragons in their breeding stock or they are not testing.

Is there not even one breeder who does test and sell adeno negative dragons this year?
 
From what i have gathered so far from my readings here, and other places, there are a good number of people with the opinion that its not a big deal. I feel that its an important issue, and people should know the information, and be able to see both sides of the story.

Not Everyone is like that, and there are a bunch here who feel strongly about the subject as i do. Hopefully they will respond and help you out some more!!
 
willows chelle said:
That link just makes me more concerned. The three breeders listed either have positive dragons in their breeding stock or they are not testing.

Is there not even one breeder who does test and sell adeno negative dragons this year?
Click to expand...

Michelle-

Yes, there are very few breeders who are testing and being public about the results. There are, however, people who are testing prior to breeding, but are NOT being public, for understandable reasons. Whether or not they are being public about their breeding/testing activities, Tracey would know who they are.

If Tracey can't help you find someone who is testing and is currently breeding, and you are still interesting in purchasing a new beardie, my best advice is to go with someone who has had a closed colony for many years, but may not necessarily be testing, and even then, follow very strict quarantine once the new beardie arrives. The one individual that I know of who's had a closed colony for a long time is Bert of Agama International.

Good luck!
 
Hi Tere,

It is good to see you. I don't know if you remember me or not, I had the big male frillie we emailed back and forth about last year.

I was sad to hear of how the virus attacked your beardies, but I am encouraged by your honesty and appropriate handling of the situation.

I think I would rather wait and purchase one from you all once your back up and running. Your character under pressure spoke volumes. :)
 
Of course I remember you, Michelle! It's great to see you, too! I've pretty much decided not to get into Adenovirus discussions any more (as I'm sure everyone will understand), but when I saw who was asking...well, you know.

I appreciate your kind words more than you will ever know.

Unfortunately, barring some major miracle, we won't be breeding anymore, whatsoever. This virus has been just devastating to us. To me, it's still like this all happened yesterday, and it's been over a year since we got our test results back.

I have faith that if you talk to Tracey, you'll be able to find yourself an Adeno negative dragon to bring into your family. Just remember, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine.
 
Hi Tere,

I did email Tracey, so we will see what she has to say.

I am disappointed to hear that you are done. I cannot pretend to know how hard all of this has been on you as well as other reputable breeders.

I think its time to start climbing out of your "personal hell" and greet the world again.

xxoo
m
 
willows chelle said:
Hi Tere,

I did email Tracey, so we will see what she has to say.

I am disappointed to hear that you are done. I cannot pretend to know how hard all of this has been on you as well as other reputable breeders.

I think its time to start climbing out of your "personal hell" and greet the world again.

xxoo
m
Click to expand...

Now, that sounds like a plan! I'm sure Tracey will be able to help you find exactly what you're looking for.
 
Try offering to pay for it if you're that concerned. That or follow proper quarantine procedures and get the test run yourself after you get it.

I'll admit I really don't know much about the new tests, when I got out of beardies it was still a post mortem thing. Just from a business end though, if you're going to request certain tests be run then expect that it will be reflected in the final price. It's not the breeders responsibility to have a $50 (or whatever it costs) test run and then still sell you the dragon for $40 or whatever it was.
 
It should cost about 25 dollars from what I understand, and I would of course rather pay extra amount.

I would also rather know that the breeder does this already without having to be poked and proded to do so!
 
Tere,

I haven't seen any new info since that big "discussion" regarding adeno that happened, but do you know of any improvements in the testing to get more reliable results?
 
monkeywrench133 said:
Tere,

I haven't seen any new info since that big "discussion" regarding adeno that happened, but do you know of any improvements in the testing to get more reliable results?
Click to expand...

Erin-

I haven't heard a thing. I know the fecal testing is still available through Lou Ann Miller, and there are several different places that offer PCR testing. But as far as anything new, well...don't hold your breath!
 
willows chelle said:
It should cost about 25 dollars from what I understand, and I would of course rather pay extra amount.

I would also rather know that the breeder does this already without having to be poked and proded to do so!
Click to expand...

The main problem with that little $25 test, is that it needs to be performed several times to REALLY confirm that a dragon is negative. We don't know how the virus is shed. Is it shed constantly or off and on? Since we don't have the answer to that, multiple tests over long periods of time are required. To be completely frank, buyers would certainly not be willing to pay enough money to cover the costs of such testing, not to mention the cost of keeping and raising an animal for a long period of time. It just isn't going to happen. You can test your breeders, and ASSUME that the babies are going to be negative...but once again, many rounds of testing are needed to determine the status of the parent dragon. I've considered testing, but to be honest, until I have a reason to suspect that anything is wrong with my colony, I probably won't bother unless I just happen to have lots of extra cash sitting around. The evidence does not even really point to adenovirus being a killer in all cases...there may be varying degrees of lethality, different strains, or perhaps dragons are forming an immunity to it.

Jamie :)
 
To add another interesting little tid-bit of information, I own breeding stock from several of the "big breeders" who are known or suspected to have adeno-positive colonies. All new dragons that I get are kept in quarantine for 90 days, and then introduced into the colony. Interestingly, I have had no problems with any of the dragons, including the dragons that one might consider "suspect", nor have I had any of my other dragons, babies or adult, become sick. It is thought that adeno really attacks young babies, so I would assume that the 100's of hatchlings that I have produced over the last three years would have been exposed, and at least SOME of them should have shown adeno symptoms by now. So this either means that I do not have adeno-positive dragons by some stroke of luck or divine intervention, or it could mean that adeno is not that big a deal anymore, and that dragons are forming a natural resistance.

Jamie :)
 
I am considering testing

I am considering testing, but spoke with my vet about it...and it seems the reliability of the tests are not even 90%. Adenovirus can be detected in stool, but can be in the lungs, kidneys, liver, and not in the gastrointestinal system. He also stated that because I keep my hatchlings for 12 weeks before selling, that if the adenovirus was present, it would show before then. And he also stated it would affect the whole clutch-not just one or two. I may have to agree with Valley because if you have had hatchlings who are the most susceptible to demise, and they have all been healthy, then this should indicate a rather convincing argument for your breeder pairs. I am a hobbyist and feel that my dragons are healthy. I have had no issues except for the occasional positive pinworms. I have no loss of weight or any issue related to illness, except for Lucy who I have had for 5 years, and the vet has followed her for the past 2-3 months. None of them have ever stopped eating, or became inactive except for brumation. I have to agree with Sean also...if you feel a test should be run on a baby you are thinking about buying ask the breeder to do so. I have 55 eggs in the incubator and could never ever afford to test them all myself. Take care all, Beth
 
Hello

Hello,

The fecal test is very reliable, but as already stated needs to be done several times to be more confident in readings. Lou Ann has told me several times that they shed it normally at varying rates, which is usally dependent upon variables such as stress, breeding, etc.
There is the PCR that can be done to confirm a negative reading however, once a negative fecal has been done. There is a lab at Texas A & M that does the Elisa test which is accurate as well. The most accurate tests would be via DNA reading. If it gets into the DNA, they will be carriers for life, which I don't particularly like the idea of them carrying around a virus that could crop up & affect a colony out of the blue. To me, that doesn't seem very fair. That is just me though.
True, they could begin to get a type of immunity to it, such as we can to colds. However, keep in mind that virus' can & will mutate to affect the host. We see that quite often, so, if it did that, it would begin doing different things & taking on a different strain than was previously affecting them to begin with. I doubt though, that they would get immune to it. However, they could get build up resistance to the virus, which would possibly make it harder to get infected. Though once exposed, they would get it, but maybe not quite as bad as others might. Plus, it depends on genetics & how hearty the breed or particular dragon might be.
It is best to not take chances & just try to gradually weed the virus out.
Yes, babies do tend to show the virus because they don't have much of an immune system & they stress easily. Babies would be good to test.
You could grab a couple or a few & do a test on them to see what they come out as.
The whole point is that breeders start making an effort to ensure that the buyer is at least being sold as healthy of a dragon as possible. I get alot of emails asking questions about it. I do know people who have told me that they would be willing to pay several hundred dollars if they knew that the dragon had come from negative breeders. I am having trouble helping these people find dragons right now.
All of the people who have had so many problems with Adeno virus have had so many setbacks & even gotten out of breeding because of it. So, try asking those people if testing is worth it??
I know so many people who have had dragons with Adeno & have spent thousands of dollars trying to keep their dragons alive.

Tere, it is great to see you on the boards!

Tracie
 
Thanks, Tracie! It's great to see you, too. Seems like forever since we had a good long talk! We might just have to change that soon.

You posted some things that I was not aware of, such as the Elisa test being available. I would love to hear more about this.

I will answer your question about testing being worth it...ABSOLUTELY. Positive or negative, my dragons are still my babies, and anything that can help me know what may cause some of the strange things that go on with Adeno dragons is well worth it, in my opinion. That's just all I'm going to say about that because the last thing I need is to get in yet another argument with anyone about this issue.
 
Hello

Hello,

Thank you Tere. No, no need to get into more arguments on AV. You of all people know the worth of knowing or not knowing.
Yes, I do have new information, thanks to a person I have met around a year or so ago. I am looking into trying to get involved with them for future testing opportunities for those who may be interested in confirmation of negatives.
The U. of Florida was not real interested right now, & was not currently working on any research for the AV, either. Dr. Jacobson did not give me much time on the phone, as well.

Yeah we need to talk soon!

Tracie
 
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