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Bad Guy Al Brown-Browns Boas-Nightmare Transaction

Drew Zaun said:
They weren't injured, nobody got hurt so there is no need for an attorney to be involved. Since the plates weren't grounded properly there was a buildup charge of static electricity, the same as if you touch metal in a very dry environment. You get a little shock, not electrocuted. Kind of silly for someone to lose their livlihood over nothing.
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Drew,

If I got shocked every time I touched something I would consider that an injury. That should not happen. That you should be so cavalier about what happened here, says something to me about you. I guess you consider products are fine unless you actually get blackened smoking flesh from touching them, huh?
 
lucille said:
Drew,

If I got shocked every time I touched something I would consider that an injury. That should not happen. That you should be so cavalier about what happened here, says something to me about you. I guess you consider products are fine unless you actually get blackened smoking flesh from touching them, huh?
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That you could claim an "injury" even though there is nothing physically wrong with you and hire a lawyer to attack someone who did not actually cause you any physical harm tells me a lot about you.

Yes, it was not wired correctly and needed to be repaired. For that you get some consideration on repair costs, not a windfall jury settlement.

For the record I work with electricity every single day. A little shock is NOT an injury.
 
Drew Zaun said:
They weren't injured, nobody got hurt so there is no need for an attorney to be involved. Since the plates weren't grounded properly there was a buildup charge of static electricity, the same as if you touch metal in a very dry environment. You get a little shock, not electrocuted. Kind of silly for someone to lose their livlihood over nothing.
Click to expand...

Actually static electricity had nothing to do with it. If the system is not grounded the electricity can arch and thus electrical shock occurs. Plus considering i wear boots with rubber bottoms and a cement floor, this was not a simple shock. Also is sure as heck didnt feel like and static i have ever felt, much stronger.
Im not looking for any court charges or anything of that nature i really just want a refund for this 400 pound paper weight. At this point im sure nothing will come of it since Al doesnt care to even come here and state his side (guess he knows is screwed me out of alot of money) This is a great business man if you ask me.
 
Drew Zaun said:
For the record I work with electricity every single day. A little shock is NOT an injury.
Click to expand...

You obviously are defending some shoddy work because of your livelihood. Other electricians might be able to see the point of view of someone who not once, but every time this new item was touched, got a shock. You do not know what another deems an injury, you are trying to minimize the effect of this shoddy work. Sad.
 
bryanlucas said:
Al has also told me he suffers from bi polar disorder.
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And? So do a lot of us. What does that have to do with all this?

Drew Zaun said:
I am not going to comment on your dispute with Al Brown, I don't know him or you nor do I know what is a fair resolution to your problem as far as money is concerned. What I will do is offer you some advice on how to use the product you have, especially as you sold your old rack?

Steel likes to rust, no doubt about it. If it was not treated correctly it would begin rusting almost immediatly in the average herp room, especially if there was electricity involved, which there is.

The good news is that this is almost certainly just surface rust (any chance on those pics?). Rather than spend an additional $400 that you have to try and recover from Al or whoever made the rack (as sending the product to the manufaturer for warranty work is not unheard of) you might want to try fixing it yourself.

A protable grinder with a wire wheel will get the surface rust off easily enough, you can then prime and paint it. It sucks that you should have to do this after spending $1200 on a rack but at least if you do it now you can salvage the piece and get some use out of it. I am pretty sure no judge will refund you the entire amount since it does still work like it is supposed to, just looks like crap and is slowly deteriorating.

This is a cheap but fast and permanent fix and you can then at least have piece of mind that your animals are fine while you figure out the finer points of the deal at your leisure.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Saves me having to type all that out. Thanks! :thumbsup:



Drew Zaun said:
That you could claim an "injury" even though there is nothing physically wrong with you and hire a lawyer to attack someone who did not actually cause you any physical harm tells me a lot about you.
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Ditto.
 
snared99 said:
Actually static electricity had nothing to do with it. If the system is not grounded the electricity can arch and thus electrical shock occurs. Plus considering i wear boots with rubber bottoms and a cement floor, this was not a simple shock. Also is sure as heck didnt feel like and static i have ever felt, much stronger.
Im not looking for any court charges or anything of that nature i really just want a refund for this 400 pound paper weight. At this point im sure nothing will come of it since Al doesnt care to even come here and state his side (guess he knows is screwed me out of alot of money) This is a great business man if you ask me.
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I hate to pick nits but static electricity does arc, in fact that is what lightning is technically. But at any rate the type of rubber in your shoes is not insulating, it is not pure enough, and beyond that the shock occurred because of the difference in potential between you and the rack. I really only say this because I would hate to see someone really get hurt thinking they are insulated with any boots or shoes they wear. Insulating gloves and mats are completely different altogether. For the record as well it is not the tires that protect you in a car, but rather a phenomenon known as "Faraday's Cage", where the electricity stays around the outside of the vehicle and does not penetrate all throughout.

lucille said:
You obviously are defending some shoddy work because of your livelihood. Other electricians might be able to see the point of view of someone who not once, but every time this new item was touched, got a shock. You do not know what another deems an injury, you are trying to minimize the effect of this shoddy work. Sad.
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Oh please I am not nor have I ever defended the rack. I simply pointed out that nobody was hurt or the OP would have stated as much, that getting a shock is not the same thing as being injured, and how getting a lawyer and trying to sue for someone's business because of no injury is absurd. As for what someone deems an injury? It is not up for debate, no physical damage is no injury. And for that matter how do you propose to sue for an injury you can't point to and can not even prove ever happened?

Personally I am getting sick of having to pay so much more for everything because everyone has to have insurance to cover frivolous lawsuits. Thankfully the OP is not taking your advice.
 
I do realize that Mr. Brown is not man enough, or ethical enough to provide a refund. Heck he will not even come on here and state his case, even though he has been made aware of the thread. At this point i really want other to realize to work this man creates, and the major lack of pride he has in it.
 
If Mr. Brown is not trying to come to a resolution with you (not sure a refund is in order unless you are sending it back?), and he claims he did not build it, maybe try the person who did? You already have the electrical problem fixed, you just need the rust removed and the metal finished properly to have the rack you ordered, maybe you can reach suitable compensation with them?

As for Mr. Brown, he sold you a defective product for a lot of money and won't stand by his product. That is not good by any means. The side bar between Lucille and I notwithstanding, this is not good business practice and perhaps you should go after him for the cost of repairs if the manufacturer won't help you.
 
The whole point is that the OP bought a rack that isnt even up to par as far as electrically working correctly. Whether there is a warranty or not the actual rack itself isnt even working properly. He bought an item that isnt functioning, let alone gets shocked by it. It needs to either be fixed by the person who made the rack or the OP gets it fixed and gets reimbursed for the cost.

You dont have to be hurt in order to sue and win. You fall in a grocery store because of a spill you can sue whether your injured or not. Lets say you own a business (a store) and 2 young kids get into a fight in your store. YOU (the store owner) GETS SUED.

If you sue, you will win. I'm sorry but if I bought a product and it shocked/electrocuted me anytime I touched it, I would want a full refund. If the refund wasnt given, I'd sue. I have a 4 year old daughter and if she were to touch that, it wouldnt have been the same as if I touched it. Also it is a fire hazard. Heat tape in general is a fire hazard and it even labels it everywhere that the company isnt responsible for anything. You wire heat tape wrong and you have a fire. The OP has heat PANELS that isnt wired properly and the rack is shocking him when he touches it. He can easily sue and win. $1200 is a large amount and any claim with that kind of money will be taken seriously. If you want to go about it, threaten to sure him and see if he takes you more seriously.
 
Wanted to correct a spelling error above. The last sentence I put 'sure' it was supposed to be 'sue'.
 
Just to clarify for everyone. We live in pA. You are NOT aloud to sue for court/attorney fees. That's neither here nor there. The fact is Mr brown cost pat A LOT of money time and frustration (that again I have whitnessed). Mr brown should not begoing along with what ever pat wants. He gave him fair warning that he would bring it here for everyone to see. And yet brown still doesn't care. Pat can prove everything he has said including the rust. With that said I don't care if he is bi poler if he he is not sound mind enough to keep his costomers happy (because he screwed up) than he should not be runing a Business. My mom has has an extreme case of boarder line personality disorder and does just fine with her company.

As far as him finding the guy that made it and skipping brown, well he shouldn't have to. If I am. Building a house for a couple and hire a plumber and they get leaky pipes I would expect them to call me to call the plumber (because I'm the one tbat hired him). I would never say well sorry you on Ur own but ill give u a hint as to who i hired and maybe you can find him..... but ill just keep all your money anyway.

This man owes pat big time and that's all there is to it.....
 
moyers monsters said:
As far as him finding the guy that made it and skipping brown, well he shouldn't have to. If I am. Building a house for a couple and hire a plumber and they get leaky pipes I would expect them to call me to call the plumber (because I'm the one tbat hired him). I would never say well sorry you on Ur own but ill give u a hint as to who i hired and maybe you can find him..... but ill just keep all your money anyway.

This man owes pat big time and that's all there is to it.....
Click to expand...

You're right, he *shouldn't* have to. He also should not have to ground the rack or refinish it either for what he paid for it. But Brown has not given him satisfaction and apparently is not about to. Court is not a guaranteed deal, not too mention it costs money and time and it can really be frustrating.
According to the number on Brown's site he is from Tennessee, getting some money back from him could be more trouble than it is worth.

All I am suggesting here is to exhaust all possibilities at an easier settlement before going to court, which should always be a last option.
 
Drew Zaun said:
If Mr. Brown is not trying to come to a resolution with you (not sure a refund is in order unless you are sending it back?), and he claims he did not build it, maybe try the person who did? You already have the electrical problem fixed, you just need the rust removed and the metal finished properly to have the rack you ordered, maybe you can reach suitable compensation with them?

As for Mr. Brown, he sold you a defective product for a lot of money and won't stand by his product. That is not good by any means. The side bar between Lucille and I notwithstanding, this is not good business practice and perhaps you should go after him for the cost of repairs if the manufacturer won't help you.
Click to expand...

Go after Brown. Take him for EVERYTHING. I am so sick and tired of crappy builders and their excuses. Who cares who actually built the thing! Brown sold it. It's HIS responsibilty. Nail him to a wall. If he will not give you a 100% refund, go after him thru any legal means neccesary.
There is no excuse for getting shocked by the crappy electrical workmanship or having it rust after you pay someone else to fix the wiring.
This guy needs to make this up to you RIGHT NOW!
 
SPJ said:
Go after Brown. Take him for EVERYTHING. I am so sick and tired of crappy builders and their excuses. Who cares who actually built the thing! Brown sold it. It's HIS responsibilty. Nail him to a wall. If he will not give you a 100% refund, go after him thru any legal means neccesary.
There is no excuse for getting shocked by the crappy electrical workmanship or having it rust after you pay someone else to fix the wiring.
This guy needs to make this up to you RIGHT NOW!
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:iagree::iagree::yesnod:
 
Mister Internet said:
I just walked across my carpet and got a stunning shock when I touched the fridge... do I sue Stainmaster or Whirlpool? Maybe both? Evidently I've got a boatload of money coming my way for being mildly discomforted... booyeah.
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Don't make idiotic statements. :rolleyes:
The wiring was a hazard on the rack. He used subpar material (old flex watt) and cut corners (no insulation, no soldering the connections) and cut into the live part of the flex watt that carries the current.
He is liable. It's just pure luck that it was only a shock and not something even worse.
I can't see how anyone can justify this shoddy workmanship and excuses as to why it's not Browns fault.
Anyone who makes jokes about this situation or defends the seller needs to re-examine themselves.
 
Perhaps if the rack had been properly wired and had shocked the OP every time he touched it (which I think is unlikely), nothing would have been thought of it.
But the fact that the rack WAS assembled poorly, AND it shocked the OP every time he touched it, is a little suspicious, and makes me point my finger more in the direction of "it was caused by a poorly constructed rack".
Honestly, Mister Internet, if you got a shock walking across the floor, and you can prove it was because the fridge was installed or built poorly, you could sue--and win. How minor the injuries are doesn't matter as much in court as the proof that you were injured at all. As said before, he's lucky he didn't get more than a shock.
Why do you think people can sue for emotional damage in court, or someone can receive money from the defendant as a punishment to the defendant? I forget what they call that--something like "punitive charges" or along those lines.
:shrug01:
 
Drew and Mr internet. You guys keep saying its no sort than getting a static shock. I'm telling you guys right now I have never had a static shock that made my entire arm throb with pain and have tingling and numbness going up to my shoulder. Yes it was that bad every time we touched the damn thing. and while I don't agree that he should be sued because we were only hurt and no one was injured, the fact is everyone is saying he should sue because of his lack of workmenship. If I got a shock EVERY SINGLE time I touched my fridge I would call the builder and get someone out there to check it and if it was because faulty wiring and they refused to fix it you can be danm sure I'm would take legal actions.
 
Drew Zaun said:
I am not going to comment on your dispute with Al Brown, I don't know him or you nor do I know what is a fair resolution to your problem as far as money is concerned. What I will do is offer you some advice on how to use the product you have, especially as you sold your old rack?

Steel likes to rust, no doubt about it. If it was not treated correctly it would begin rusting almost immediatly in the average herp room, especially if there was electricity involved, which there is.

The good news is that this is almost certainly just surface rust (any chance on those pics?). Rather than spend an additional $400 that you have to try and recover from Al or whoever made the rack (as sending the product to the manufaturer for warranty work is not unheard of) you might want to try fixing it yourself.

A protable grinder with a wire wheel will get the surface rust off easily enough, you can then prime and paint it. It sucks that you should have to do this after spending $1200 on a rack but at least if you do it now you can salvage the piece and get some use out of it. I am pretty sure no judge will refund you the entire amount since it does still work like it is supposed to, just looks like crap and is slowly deteriorating.

This is a cheap but fast and permanent fix and you can then at least have piece of mind that your animals are fine while you figure out the finer points of the deal at your leisure.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

That post right there... I think responses to BOIs should take in the form of that more often. It doesn't add fuel to the fire nor "dilute" the point of the thread to where it spins off into another topic such as the best tactics of how to prove you were injured; stick a fork in an outlet and/or why birds are able to perch on power lines w/out getting electrocuted while it rains :shrug01:

As for the OP, continue on what you originally had planned on doing. You'll get further with small claims than an injury case (Unless you really want to dish out the funds to pay for a lawyer to win your case against someone who most likely doesn't even have the money).

Make do with what you can and try to fix the problem with the rack (even though you really shouldn't have to but it needs to get done for the time being) and stop touching the rack :thumbsup: (I know it's been rewired and rust is the issue now)
 
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