First, I'd like to say thanks to everyone who has posted their info on gout in this thread. It has been very informative.
Adam asks why some issues aren't being addressed. In the interest of doing so, I'll take a stab at a couple of thest. This is just an attempt to take an objective look at the questions, and provide feedback.
I think in regards to this claim, there is a lack of evidence. At the moment, it stands as hearsay. If you could produce a receipt for this 282 gram animal, and any other evidence, that'd probably be a good idea.
I think this has been addressed because earlier comments indicated that there was some blame assignment going on, and that doesn't seem to have abated much.
Adam has stated that he feels that a 65/35 split of liability is in order, which would be manifest in a replacement of a het albino animal. So, yes, there is an issue of assigning blame, here.
Here's the problem with assinging blame: The animal may have died due to someone's care. It may have died just from plain bad luck. A seller HAS to limit his or her liability at some point, and that's usually laid out as a health gaurantee in the terms of the sale. The buyer is responsible for knowing the sales terms and agreeing to them. If I read the timeline right, the animal was not reported to NERD until five months after the sale? Or was it two months? Whichever it was, the only question of liability should be: Did the snake develop problems, and were those problems reported, within the time limit set by the terms of the sale?
I have no doubt that Adam would do as he was requesting NERD do, and replace the albino with a het, were the situation reversed. It does seem like a reasonable, and kind thing to do. I do not, however, think that NERD is in any way obligated to take this course of action, nor that it reflects poorly on them. It seems that a discount was offered by NERD, so they did offer to make ammends beyond the basic terms of the sale. Although that may not meet Adam's personal standards in this case, it does show integrity on the part of the seller, IMHO.
This sounds like a personal issue. Nobody here has access to a reliable report of this phone conversation, so they cannot comment on it. The only commentary that's appropriate is how past conversations/transactions/problems were handled by Kevin or yourself, and they are largely irrelevant.
The identity of the person who posted with Kevin's signature is equally irrelevant. The fact is, whoever posted used NERD's login, and apparently had permission to act as Kevin's agent in making the post. Unless Kevin comes on here to refute that post, there's no reason to question the content.
Poor customer service is certainly noteworthy, but Adam has taken it so far beyond a siimple complaint of rudeness as to make any further comments in this area suspect. He's clearly been offended on a personal level. I'm not judging whether he's in the right or wrong in taking offense, only saying that this particular situation should not be held up as typical behavior for either party, since emotions seem to be running high.
On to the questions list. I know that quite a few of these were directed at Kevin/NERD, but I figured I'd take a crack at examining them.
1) Did Kevin write the post on the BOI?
It does not matter if the person posting did so as Kevin's agent in the matter. See above comments.
2) Why was your 2 year old snake only 282 Grams?
Hearsay. Show proof. See above comments.
3) Was this snake given water while on it's way to the show?
Was it given water on the way BACK from the show? This one goes two ways. Neither question can be answered conclusively here. As someone else pointed out, the likelihood that all parties cared for the animal to the best of their abilities seems very high.
4) You mention the great record keeping you maintain, would you be willing to tell us who else bought babies from that clutch?
Frankly, I'd be a might peeved if a dealer made my transactions with them public in such a manner. What's in his customers' collections is nobody's business except their own. It might be better to ask if he wouldn't mind having the customers who bought the rest of the clutch contact you or post here, though considering how confrontational and inflammatory your recent posts have been, I doubt he'd do so, and I wouldn't blame him.
5) How many meals was that baby fed before being sold?
I thought you already stated that he provided a feeding card, and that the feeding card showed just how few meals the animal had had in his care? Why don't YOU scan that bad boy in and post it here? Come to think of it, didn't your partner take a look at the feeding card before he laid down $2500 on the animal? If the feeding card shows a history of poor feeding, and if it was made available at the time of sale, then taking on a poor feeding animal was something the buyer could have avoided. Anyway, show us the card, and this question might be closer to getting answered.
6) We've established your excellent reputation, with that said, why did you choose to bring such a young baby to be sold at the show?
I did read the thread, but it was much earlier, and it is a long thread. I have one question: Are the two of you in agreement as to the age of the animal? If not, what proof of age does each side have? IIRC, it takes hatchling balls about three or four weeks before taking their first meal. You stated already (again, IIRC) that you had a feeding card showing the animal had been fed only once a month. So, how many feedings? Assuming the snake was a month or so old to get the first meal, and assuming that there was at least a second meal to establish the "once a month" trend, then the snake was at least two months old by that account, which isn't quite fresh out of the egg.
This last point, of the albino's age, seems to be the only major complaint of interest. The question of whether NERD sells well-established ball pythons or not is of interest.
Anyway, this has been an attempt to take a logical look at the situation, and offer up some ideas, so I hope you take it in the spirit intended, Adam, and I'm very sorry for the loss of the snake.
Adam asks why some issues aren't being addressed. In the interest of doing so, I'll take a stab at a couple of thest. This is just an attempt to take an objective look at the questions, and provide feedback.
I think in regards to this claim, there is a lack of evidence. At the moment, it stands as hearsay. If you could produce a receipt for this 282 gram animal, and any other evidence, that'd probably be a good idea.
I think this has been addressed because earlier comments indicated that there was some blame assignment going on, and that doesn't seem to have abated much.
Adam has stated that he feels that a 65/35 split of liability is in order, which would be manifest in a replacement of a het albino animal. So, yes, there is an issue of assigning blame, here.
Here's the problem with assinging blame: The animal may have died due to someone's care. It may have died just from plain bad luck. A seller HAS to limit his or her liability at some point, and that's usually laid out as a health gaurantee in the terms of the sale. The buyer is responsible for knowing the sales terms and agreeing to them. If I read the timeline right, the animal was not reported to NERD until five months after the sale? Or was it two months? Whichever it was, the only question of liability should be: Did the snake develop problems, and were those problems reported, within the time limit set by the terms of the sale?
I have no doubt that Adam would do as he was requesting NERD do, and replace the albino with a het, were the situation reversed. It does seem like a reasonable, and kind thing to do. I do not, however, think that NERD is in any way obligated to take this course of action, nor that it reflects poorly on them. It seems that a discount was offered by NERD, so they did offer to make ammends beyond the basic terms of the sale. Although that may not meet Adam's personal standards in this case, it does show integrity on the part of the seller, IMHO.
This sounds like a personal issue. Nobody here has access to a reliable report of this phone conversation, so they cannot comment on it. The only commentary that's appropriate is how past conversations/transactions/problems were handled by Kevin or yourself, and they are largely irrelevant.
The identity of the person who posted with Kevin's signature is equally irrelevant. The fact is, whoever posted used NERD's login, and apparently had permission to act as Kevin's agent in making the post. Unless Kevin comes on here to refute that post, there's no reason to question the content.
Poor customer service is certainly noteworthy, but Adam has taken it so far beyond a siimple complaint of rudeness as to make any further comments in this area suspect. He's clearly been offended on a personal level. I'm not judging whether he's in the right or wrong in taking offense, only saying that this particular situation should not be held up as typical behavior for either party, since emotions seem to be running high.
On to the questions list. I know that quite a few of these were directed at Kevin/NERD, but I figured I'd take a crack at examining them.
1) Did Kevin write the post on the BOI?
It does not matter if the person posting did so as Kevin's agent in the matter. See above comments.
2) Why was your 2 year old snake only 282 Grams?
Hearsay. Show proof. See above comments.
3) Was this snake given water while on it's way to the show?
Was it given water on the way BACK from the show? This one goes two ways. Neither question can be answered conclusively here. As someone else pointed out, the likelihood that all parties cared for the animal to the best of their abilities seems very high.
4) You mention the great record keeping you maintain, would you be willing to tell us who else bought babies from that clutch?
Frankly, I'd be a might peeved if a dealer made my transactions with them public in such a manner. What's in his customers' collections is nobody's business except their own. It might be better to ask if he wouldn't mind having the customers who bought the rest of the clutch contact you or post here, though considering how confrontational and inflammatory your recent posts have been, I doubt he'd do so, and I wouldn't blame him.
5) How many meals was that baby fed before being sold?
I thought you already stated that he provided a feeding card, and that the feeding card showed just how few meals the animal had had in his care? Why don't YOU scan that bad boy in and post it here? Come to think of it, didn't your partner take a look at the feeding card before he laid down $2500 on the animal? If the feeding card shows a history of poor feeding, and if it was made available at the time of sale, then taking on a poor feeding animal was something the buyer could have avoided. Anyway, show us the card, and this question might be closer to getting answered.
6) We've established your excellent reputation, with that said, why did you choose to bring such a young baby to be sold at the show?
I did read the thread, but it was much earlier, and it is a long thread. I have one question: Are the two of you in agreement as to the age of the animal? If not, what proof of age does each side have? IIRC, it takes hatchling balls about three or four weeks before taking their first meal. You stated already (again, IIRC) that you had a feeding card showing the animal had been fed only once a month. So, how many feedings? Assuming the snake was a month or so old to get the first meal, and assuming that there was at least a second meal to establish the "once a month" trend, then the snake was at least two months old by that account, which isn't quite fresh out of the egg.
This last point, of the albino's age, seems to be the only major complaint of interest. The question of whether NERD sells well-established ball pythons or not is of interest.
Anyway, this has been an attempt to take a logical look at the situation, and offer up some ideas, so I hope you take it in the spirit intended, Adam, and I'm very sorry for the loss of the snake.
shows a year, you tend to notice who, and who doesn't, take care of their animals. My opinion of NERD is they do a great job !