all done

[lepgex14]

here is my site with the pics im gana just post my tanks though

http://hometown.aol.com/pitbull50/page1.html

 

[Tom Chambers]

Uhhhhh.....do you charge extra for Gex WITH toes and fat tails?

Really wouldn't show those pics EVER on a website.....you will only scare folks away with stuff like that. Is the little one without a tail still alive for a new pic?

Tom Chambers
TC Reptile

 

[HerpUtopia]

Randy,

It looks like those leo's need a better shedbox - see how most of them have old skin stuck to them? Eventually that dry and dead skin cuts off the circulation in the skin underneath it and it can lead to major health problems, not to mention the loss of digits.

So, for curiosity, how many leo's have you bread?

^Curtis Brown

 

[Neil Gubitz]

You should also have someone, with half a brain in their head, read through your website and correct ALL the spelling and grammatical errors you have....and there are LOADS OF THEM!! How you can put something like that out to the public is simply amazing....Neil

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

First off, Like I am and many have said to you, PLEASE get some help from your parents on spelling and grammar. Your web site looks like a 3 year old did it. My 10 year old daughter spells and types better then you and you say your 14 years old? I would suggest you remove the pics on your web page.  There is only one pic that shows a half decent animal (the Viper tail) all the rest still look like they will not be around much longer. If you do not remove the shed from their toes you will lose toes and probably some feet. No matter how much you try to say your doing good with your animals and they are getting healthier and fat, the pics still show skinny, emaciated, unhealthy looking animals. Please by all means continue to read up on Leopard geckos and try to get as much information on them before you try to do anything else with them. You are a BEGINNER!! and not a breeder.  You are no where near ready to take on the responsibility of being a breeder or care giver of large numbers of any animal. I would also suggest you spend more time studying your school work and then you can possibly become more intelligent and in the future will be able to pursue your desire of being a Leopard Gecko breeder.

 

[HerpVenue]

I can't delete this...
and I am probably contributing to the problem by even replying.

BUT

lepgex14 you NEED to READ the rules of the BOI
First you go and post all your questions on the classifieds.
Now you are posting you website announcement on the BOI.

Go to kingsnake.com
or Redtailboa.net

they have different forums over there where you can talk about and learn about leopard geckos.
You can even make announcements about your site over there.

by the way..I am still looking for the pictures of the tanks.

 

[WebSlave]

Randy - thanks for the link to your site showing photographs of your animals.  Certainly this is about the best example I have recently seen proving the statement 'a picture is worth a thousand words'.

For some reason, the phrase 'concentration camp for lizards' popped into my mind when I looked at your site.  You approached me about buying leopard geckos a short while ago, and you will never know how glad I am that you were looking for much cheaper prices.  When you budget your expenses for these animals, please allocate some money for FOOD for them as well as a book or two on the proper care and maintenance of them.

The truly scary thing about all this is that you are so completely clueless about how badly you are doing with these animals that you actually posted photographs of them for people to look at.  YOU DON'T EVEN REALIZE THE BAD SHAPE THEY ARE IN!!  If I were to show these photos to my wife, she would probably fly out to where ever you are located and major kick your ass for you.

Do those animals a favor:  Give them to someone whom knows what they are doing so they can save their lives and then you go play with army men or something else inanimate. You are not cut out for this kind of work.

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Well, I know this wont be a popular post but here it goes anyway.  

Setting aside the animal health issues, poor grammar, and lack of experience, you really got to give this 14 year old some credit.  Now dont pass out yet, hear me out first.   How many 14 year olds do you know that are trying to break into the herp industry?  Let alone starting his own website which obviously he designed and built.  He!!, I dont even know how to do web design and I'm twice his age.  Perhaps we should try to help him out and give some great advice to him on care of gexs instead of beating his spirit to a pulp with insults.  Take the opportunity to educate him the way YOU would want to educated.  

I  am not taking up for him on health issues, so dont even try to insunuate that I am.  That is NOT the purpose of this post.  I am only commenting on his young entrepreneurial spirit.

 

[WebSlave]

Ritchie - yes, you are right.  This topic, on the surface, is not appropriate for the Board of Inquiry.  But this is a perfect example of why I have to be flexible sometimes about my own rules.

If someone else had posted the link to that site and used it as a perfect example of why someone shouldn't do business with this guy, that would be acceptable.  With all things considered, I believe it is in everyone's best interests that I let them see the self inflicted wounds this person has caused by firing shots at his own feet.  The interesting thing to note is that he is not even aware that he has blown off his own toes.

 

[EMERALDGUY33]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Perhaps we should try to help him out and give some great advice to him on care of gexs instead of beating his spirit to a pulp with insults.  Take the opportunity to educate him the way YOU would want to educated.  
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Tim, I have to vehemently disagree with you on this one. You bring up an excellent point. But both myself and others have tried. Numerous times. And he has misinterpreted our help and advice. Taken it as attacks on him. He knows it all and refuses to listen. So I'm all done with him.

Randy, pardon my French, but you are a sad @ss excuse for a lizard keeper. I do not like lizards but they do not deserve that kind of substandard care. You, young man, should go work for Petco. You will fit right in.

Tyler, Yes I am ridiculing a 14 year old kid. Someone needs to. He is hurting those poor animals and doesn't appear to care. Maybe if you make him feel bad enough, he will start to care and give those lizards the care they deserve.

 

[HerpVenue]

Webslave
yet again you have proven yourself to be the wiser man.


Lepgex14
as aforementioned I admire your enthusiasm and your entreprenurialship (spelling?).  but please take the time to learn more about the animals.  Take care of them as pets first.
Do it for at least a year.  Read lots of books.  As many books as you can.  Frequent forums where you can get some assistance and learn about these wonderful animals.  You took the time to learn how to do a website.  Please take the time to learn how to take care of these animals.

 

[Wen]

First off,
LepGex14, Honey you really need to close your site until your animals are in better shape to offer for sale. Its going to take more then just a few days to get them nursed back to health. Please read up on what steps you need to take to help them shed properly and what diet they need in order to regain optimal health. And as far as your spelling goes. It always helps to maybe open a file and type what you want to say first, then do a spell check to make sure everything is spelled correctly then copy and paste from that to what ever your posting. Im 36 years old and still have problems spelling some of the simplest words.
Second off..to post a reply to the response on here.  I am disapointed at the way he is being dealt with here
I went to the sight and agree that these animals are in dire need of better care, and it seems to me that he is a kid trying to make money, and not understanding that it takes alittle more time, care and research invested to get started.
I can understand the aggravation that you have with his attempts to sell these animals in the conditions they are in. But I do not agree with the negative remarks to him about his education. Making the derogatory remark of "I have a ten year old spelling better then you do and you say your 14??" and that "he needs to study so he can become more intelligent." or  "You need to have someone with half a brain in their head to read through and correct your web site" or  the one of  " let them see the self inflicted wounds this person has caused by firing shots at his own feet.The interesting thing to note is that he is not even aware that he has blown off his own toes."
No he's not aware of it,, hes a kid. the fact that he gave it a few days and posted a few more pics to try to show the people on here that he is undoubtly making an effort to get them gain weight shows me he is looking for you (the experts) approval. And all you are doing is bashing him.   Do you think thats really going to help his self esteem?? The one that really ticked me was "Do those animals a favor:  Give them to someone whom knows what they are doing so they can save their lives and then you go play with army men or something else inanimate. You are not cut out for this kind of work"   Lets just kill his desire for working with and dealing with reptiles.. Is that what you want to do?? I agree they need to be better cared for, but why not tell him the steps he needs to take to do so, rather then say something like that. You might as well tell him hes worthless..  I have a twelve year son, that is passionate about reptiles, But he has the luxery of my boyfriend being an experienced herper and he keeps him grounded and only allow him simple types.box turtles, couple of garder snakes, some water turtles and just recently he purchased him a beared dragon, and we hold him responisble for taking care of the ones we have allowed him to have. As he proves to us that he is taking the effort to understand the responsibitly and up keep with them,  we allow him more. But if he didnt have my boyfriend there to educate him on the care and monitor him on how he is doing with them, and me to monitor him on how much he is allowed to do with them,  I would be livid if I knew so called experts would say things like this to him, if he was trying to make an effort to be invovled.
   I am not condoning Lepgex for tring to become a breeder at this point in his life, I think its something he should definitly put on a back burner for a few more years until he old enough to support being a breeder,, but Im in no way going to degrade him for trying to participate in something that he loves. God better he be here trying to become invovled in something positive then out on the streets doing drugs and shooting people.
How would you feel if someone was saying these things to your kid? You have no idea what his situation is. Or what disadvatages he has againest him. Maybe his parents are not as devoted as you are to yours. Im thinking obviously not, because it seems they are not monitoring his actitivities. and he's here, looking for an adult to go in with him, and giving out information that could put him in a very dangerous situation.  You all need to have your hands popped for these remarks with the exception of "Arboreals of the Rainforest" and "Ritiche Luna".
You cannot blame this kid for his parents lack of interest or their ignorance in allowing this to go on, and for not attempting to nuture him and his desires. Yeah he maybe 14 but that doesn't mean that he knows right from wrong, if his parents neglected to educate him from his child hood up. You need to blame his parents and maybe one of you should attempt to contact them to let them know what is going on, before ruining his desire with your degrading remarks to him.. And maybe educate them on taking a more responsible approach at being a part of their sons life.

Wen

 

[dwedeking]

Wen,

This post had carried over from other forums where people were trying to help him. Then with the typical teenager attitude (I have an 18 year old step daughter that has everything about life figured out to a TEE <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  so I am experienced in the "teenager attitude" [note: also why lizards are taking the kids rooms as they move out, keep em from coming back, except for short non-refrigerator related visits  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> ]) he took it all as an attack on his "vast" bank of knowledge.

Second, he is selling (not just keeping) this takes him into the adult world of responsibility. His poor husbandry as a business can have effects for all of us.

Hopefully he will learn from these posts and re-evaluate his position as a herper and still keep the love of the hobby.

 

[Mike and Erica @ MotherGecko]

I think in each case everyone is correct.  I understand how people whom love reptiles can get upset in seeing animals in that kind of state.  I wrote Randy a response in one of his posts that I would be happy to lend a hand in offering any help I could.  It seems he only wants to make deals and not take care of the issues at hand.  I know your reading this now Randy and I would still like to extend a helping hand if you will accept.  This time though no trying to make deals, not even a single mention of dollar signs but only of health care and proper husbandry.  I promise all questions you have I will do my best to answer with no judgement to you what so ever. I would also be happy to send you a copy of the Leopard Gecko manual for free just send me your address and a promise that you will read it from cover to cover.  Before I send the manual though as an act of good faith on your part please go to my site and read my caresheet front to end with an exception of the breeding part, as that will come much later.  By looking at your pics and the condition of some of you Leopards I would positively guarentee that you have coccidia in your colonies.  This can be treated and I would be happy to send you the proper medications to treat your animals free of charge as well, if you make the effort to care for the animals. As for now it would be important that you go through your facility and isolate all the geckos individually, and most importantly disinfect everything that the geckos have come in contact with not once, not twice, but three times, as well as everyday.  Use a proper disinfectant like Virosan or Nolvasan which can be purchased at sites like www.beanfarm.com they sell these products as well as medications, if you dont have either of these disinfectants even a mild bleach solution with an antibacterial soap will help, but make sure you rinse off all the residue as to not leave it for the Leopards to get. Take your site down for a while, concentrate on the issues at hand, and start to learn more of proper husbandry and show everyone that you care about the animals, even though it doesnt look good its not to late to make a difference and take a step in the right direction.  You know how to reach me so feel free...Mike

 

[EMERALDGUY33]

Wen,

You are entitled to your opinion. As are we all. What I want to know is who is going to hold this boy accountable? If bleeding hearts like yourself keep giving this kid a pass due to his age, what is to stop him from doing some real damage and ripping a lot of people off when he is of age? By supporting and defending him, you are condoning his actions. At 14, this kid is old enough to be responsible for his own actions. What, it appears, you are failing to notice is that people (myself included) have been trying to help this kid for sometime. But he keeps spitting that help right back in our faces. He knows it all. He doesn't need our help. So be it then. IMO, he can sink or swim on his own.

As for his grammatical shortcomings. He is attempting to establish himself as both a breeder and a dealer of reptiles. Which holds him accountable to the same standards as every other reptile breeder and dealer. And as such, he needs to portray his business in the best possible light. Which he is miserably failing to do. A potential customer is going to base their opinion on all facets presented. If he is going to attempt to make money by selling animals, he needs to take the initiative and learn how to spell. Plain and simple.

Thank you and have a nice day.  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[cnjreptiles]

These guys are right.  I offered to help him on the website side of things for free.  He emailed back said he was thankful of mine and MotherGecko's attempts to help and that was it.  Never heard from him again.  I offered him help for free when the first string started and I visited his site.  I'm not going to attack him, but after reading some of his responses to other peoples advice I can understand why others are.  From the beginning he has been offered help, advice, and now free supplies to care for his animals.  The help was there, he refused to take it and refuses to acknowledge he is doing something wrong with these animals.  The one gecko on his site that looks good doesn't even belong to him, he put that next to the picture on the site so I give him some credit there.  At 14 this needs to be a pet, maybe a hobby, definitely not a business.  I do it as a hobby, I am a bit older than him, and I don't even sell my own stuff.  If he refuses the help there is no other choice than to put it bluntly for him, it may save some animals lives.

 

[cnjreptiles]

Well heres the response I received by e-mail and my e-mail back to him.  




I offered advice on your website, as well as help if you needed it.  You response said thank you and that was it.  I didn't say you were rude, I thought the response was rather nice.  But you didn't take mine or MotherGecko's help or any of the other people who have offered.  Those of us that go to the board love our animals, and all reptiles. It's hard for most of us to see animals that are not taken care of especially in a business atmosphere.  This business has enough problems as it is with laws, shipping, con artists and more.  The few that do the bad things make it that much harder for the majority that are trying to do it right.  Take everyone's advice, it's there, it's free and it will only help you in the long run.  No one is out to get you, but to people you may do business with you represent the herp community and their opinion of you carries over to everyone else as well.  Just think about it for a minute and see that everyone is only trying to help.  This is the only business where people you compete with will try to help you with yours, that's why it's a "community".  Keeping and breeding reptiles is a big responsibility, I'm not sure at 14 you are ready for it.  I'm just getting into the breeding myself and that's after 10 years in a management career, a marriage and 3 kids.  So I've had a bit of responsibility, and I still find it difficult responsibility wise, that's because it is, and that makes it that much more enjoyable.







Jeff Nester
CNJ Reptiles
http://www.geocities.com/cnjreptiles
>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: for one thing
>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:23:24 -0400
>
>Email Generated by Ikonboardcnjreptiles,
>
>This email has been sent from lepgex14 via Ikonboard.
>
>(http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi)
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>i recived help from u an then i asked a question an never heard from u
>the other thing is when did any one offer me any thing for free?
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>Please note, Ikonboard cannot be held responsible for the content of this email

 

[cnjreptiles]

Sorry, my response is the first one and his e-mail is at the bottom.

 

[Justyn]

After following this thread for several days I have come to the conclusion that "Lepgex14" does not understand that the animals in question are not receiving proper husbandry care.  Due to his unknown and devastating neglect his animals are suffering deeply for his interest in geckos and his entrepreneurial spirit.  The character of this individual is greatly flawed and needs to be adjusted so he can see the error of his ways.  All of us have offered a helping hand to this 14 year old, and he has yet to take a stand and accept the vast knowledge of this board.  He has made many mistakes and if he wants to grasp any creditability within the herpetoculture industry he needs understand that the hobby will not accept or does it deserve animals that are not properly managed, so that is creates health concerns for the animals being offered.  The goal of herpetoculture in the modern day (with leopard geckos as a perfect example) is to offer high quality and adaptive animals that are far superior in regards to wild caught imports.  Unless this juvenile understands and accepts that his husbandry techniques are flawed and they can be corrected, I feel that he is only adding to the negative publicity surrounding the industry and he along with others like him to lead to the ultimate collapse of the hobby with help from outside organizations (HSUS).
Thanks
Justyn

 

[BrianB]

You know, if I treated animals like this, nevertheless tried to sell them, at the age of 14, the animals would have been taken off of me and I'd have very  likely been taken out behind the barn for a thrashing.  Heck, at 33, that's probably still the case.

For LepGex14:  You should not be offering those animals for sale, they are in very poor condition; you've been told this many times.  Do you see living animals when you look at your lizards or a fast profit?  Try respecting them, first.  Those who succeed are those who love their animals first, the money last.

The condition your leos are in shows nothing more than simple ignorance.  Keeping leos isn't by any means rocket science, but it does require the responsibility to go get the basic information which is readily availble on their care, and to learn basic husbandry before you even think about breeding or selling.  Remaining ignorant in the care of your animals with such readily available information is criminally neglegent.   I'm going to share a bit of info with you, here, and if you ever want to become involved in a positive way with the reptile hobby and trade, I suggest you follow it:

First, you learn basic husbandry.  I suggest you see if there is a reptile rescue in your area who can care for your sick and injured animals and nurse them back to health.  Get rid of every gecko you currently own.  Period.  They are suffering both for lack of knowledge on your part and you are in no way equipped to rehab one gecko let alone several.  I suggest you find caring, knowledgable homes for ALL of your reptiles.  This takes care of the first problem, which is your neglegent abuse of your animals.  It is also a step toward responsible behavior.

Next, get rid of all of your cages and other equipment.  Simply throw the stuff away.  There's no way of knowing what your animals may have in the way of parasites or other diseases, and you are not knowledgeable enough to be trusted with sanitizing used equipment and enclosures.  After you clear out all of your current collection and gear, clean your repitle area thoroughly.

Then, you sit down and thing long and hard about whether you're ready to keep reptiles.  If you decide you are, get a few good books on the care of the species you want to keep, and read them all twice.  Go online and do a google search for the species you're interested in with both the common and scientific name.  If ANYTHING, no matter how simple, involving the keeping of this animal is not crystal clear in your mind, then go to forums and ask SPECIFIC questions to clarify.

After all of this research, go do some field research.  Try to locate a RESPONSIBLE herper who keeps the species you're interested in, and see if you can take a first hand look at a good setup.  You might try looking for a herp society in your area and joining it.

Now that you've done all of this, you need to go get a new setup for the animal you've chosen.  THEN, buy ONE and only ONE example of this species.  Raise it from a youngster to adulthood.  THEN, when you've got a year or two of VALID herp keeping experience, consider getting a mate for your animal, and raising IT to adulthood.  By this point, you've got two animals you've raised to adulthood, and 2 to 4 years of solid experience, and are perhaps more mature.  Or maybe by the time you're 16 or 18, you'll have decided that you have other interests, and will decide to keep the two animals as pets.  Either way, at this point, if you've done everything correctly, have learned husbandry, have learned to judge the condition and health of your animals, then you may be ready to breed.

There's your formula for success.  It takes TIME, and there are no shortcuts.  You've aptly demonstrated the results of a rush job to us with your pics.  Don't continue on your current path.