Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

[A_Kendergirl]

There are a few people who can verify this...as we chat with Bryon on a regular basis.

This is NOT out of the blue, nor vindictive action. For weeks I have heard Bryon complaining about the conditions. He constantly stated his frustration over WANTING to help the animals, but not being able to due to the Boss having him do other things. The entire time he was sharing his frustrations, he never stated who his boss was out of discression.

By the start of this week, it was very clear that he COULD NOT take it anymore. After seeing the photos, I do not blame him one bit!! Those conditions are DISGUSTING!!! Yet setting up party jumpers and laying pipes was more important to his boss.

I don't think any person with 1/2 a conscience could idly sit by KNOWING animals were sick and dying, and KNOWING that people were getting ripped off. Bryon didn't do what was easy....he did what was right! He knew it was likely that people would say "So why didn't you clean...it was you're job"....you can't do your job if your boss is filling up your day with miscellaneous side jobs. Despite knowing it was likely he would catch a little guff, he came here to warn others about the awful conditions, and horrible business practices of his employer...TO HELP OTHERS. The only thing he gets out of this situation is the thanks from people he has saved from buying a sick animal, or 100% normal het.

THANK YOU for doing what is right, and not what is easy.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

discression = discretion I can't believe the spell checker didn't get that one! LOL

 

[Chameleon Company]

Thanks Shanti ! Where were you around noon ..... LOL ? I have difficulty recalling where the starter of a "bad guy" thread here didn't face some scrutiny. The "messenger" in this thread took a little bit of heat, but was any of it out of the ordinary? Posts like yours Shanti, which bring not only a second opinion as to the character of Bryon, but also specific knowledge of this situation which predates the thread, are what bolster credibility. I thank you.

 

[Junkyard]

Yes, I am from Alabama but that doesn't mean anything, I have dealt with and seen Allen at several of the Reptile Shows and his animals all appear very healthy. If his animals were not taken care of they wouldn't be in good condition at the reptile shows.

Animals always look better at the shows, youcannot see their real cages and the containers they are in are usually filled with new substrate. It is eye candy at the show, but not at home as evident by the pictures Bryon took.

I am not defending Allen because we are friends, Its not like that at all. I have never been to Allens house or shop but have only seen the quality of his animals at the shows and I have seen nothing wrong,

You are defending him, you tell us Bryon is out to get back at Allen, but you are not defending Allen. You sound like a friend to me. Make up your mind!

It just seems to me that Bryons picture taking was pre-planned and if he was supposed to be cleaning reptile cages then why wasn't the cleaning being done by Bryon after all he did work for Allen, TRUE or FALSE?

It is hard to clean cages when you are being told that other things need to be done.

Plus if you look at most of the photo's taken by Bryon they are blurry and most of the bedding looks WET(as if someone spilt water), instead of running and getting my camera I would have CLEANED the damn cage..DUH..

Spilt water? Look closer dude!! The substrate is moldy, can you not see that? The shavings are brown/black. Not just dark from water.

but NO I want to get back at my boss for something he said or did...That is what this is all about. I know that and he does to.

Lets remember you are not standing up for Allen as a friend, you only think Bryon set all this up to get back at Allen. Are you capable of reading minds, are you psyhic, do you use mental telepathy? Tell us exactly how you "know".

Oh and lets talk about the photo with the ball morphs... I see like one pile of FRESH CRAP where the paper is still wet for 6 snakes, and the picture with the mouse what is that, he could have been trying to feed. Couldn't he have? I didn't see any poor cnditioned snakes in any of the photo's,

Fresh crap, dead frog, wet newspaper, feces pilled, crap dried on the warehouse floor. Yea, this looks like a set up to me. Why did Allen not take care of things when Bryon was not there running all the errands that Allen sent him on? Oh wait, Bryon was hired to do the job so Allen did not have to(enter sarcasm here) Bryon, how long was that mouse running around the cage? It did not look like the snake was eating to me.

I did see crap in the pictures but the guy(bryon) taking the photo should have cleaned them if that was HIS JOB.

Hard to do your job when the boss does not allow you to.

But all that is his story and pictures. We all know we deal with LIVE animals that USE the BATHROOM REGULAR, YES we clean the cages as much as we can but at any point we COULD walk into any Reptile Room and find at least one crappy cage if you are dealing with several different types of reptiles. I am not saying it is OK to find Crap in cages I am just saying Reptiles use the bathroom and you might clean the cage and leave the room and come back 20 minutes later to find WET paper and instead of taking photo's to slam someone that I worked for I would have cleaned.

Yes, crap happens with animals. Did you not read Bryon was on his way out when he took the pictures. Of course it was pre-planned, Bryon was tired of fight with Allen about how bad the animals were being kept. He was done with it and now wants all of us aware of the way Allen really runs his business.

I see other motives in this case....After all he was an employee of Allens, Why would he go through the trouble to hold a dated news paper up in all of his pictures, Damn Bryon clean them cages and let your boss know what you found...But you would rather take pictures and post them on the BOI. Just clean the crap up...LOL.

Bryon did talk to Allen about the way the animals were being kept, read his post. He only had enough time to spot clean the cages before he had to go set up party jumpers, lay pipe, run errands, make deliveries. Allen should have let Bryon do the job he was hired to do FIRST, then send him out to do the other things.

As I stated before I have not talked to Allen about this post and he did not ask me to write this. I only see Allen at the Local Reptile shows about once a month and I have never been to his place of buiness. I have sold/gotten animals from him and they were all fine and in good health, all of the ball morphs were in great condition and if I would have had the extra cash I would have purchased some of them.

Again, the snakes at a show are not brought along with the crap to be shown off. Allen purposely hid the crap so you would not know about it.

I just feel that this is a attemp to screw allen and one of his business'. Allen may not have the cleanest business cages but none of us know the true condition of the cages or if he might have added the spilt water to make them look worse then they really are. That is just my opinion. So I hope Bill and Amy don't accuse me of being anything else than living in the same state. Like they stated in another post about it not being just a coincident. I'am outta here
See ya David

I think you nailed it on the head with the "might", but knowing Bryon, this was not easy to do after trying so hard to improve what he saw as a big loss of priorities.

Truly, these pictures speak louder than words.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Thanks Shanti ! Where were you around noon ..... LOL ? I have difficulty recalling where the starter of a "bad guy" thread here didn't face some scrutiny. The "messenger" in this thread took a little bit of heat, but was any of it out of the ordinary? Posts like yours Shanti, which bring not only a second opinion as to the character of Bryon, but also specific knowledge of this situation which predates the thread, are what bolster credibility. I thank you.

I was working...lol. Yes, he has taken some heat, and he fully expected to...this is the BOI after all. Should the others choose to, they can come verify what I've said. Bryon is a good guy with good intentions...he's looking out for the animals, and for the buyers.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Dave

If this was personal then why haven't I brought any of the personal drama into it? Anything personal between me and Allen stays in e-mail. I left this as a professional experience as much as I possibly could. I had other duties as well than just cleaning animals . How long do you think it takes to grab a few pics?

For the first 4 weeks I worked from 9 am to 7 - 8 pm and still couldn't keep up. I did 90% or more of all the work by myself. I'm only one guy , can only do so much and can only be in one place at a time. It is not my company to call the shots or work the schedule I want to work. As an employee the boss sets my schedule for me. Considering the3 of the 4 buildings are in his backyard Allen knew first hand the condition everything was in . If Allen didn't find it a priority to schedule me to clean animals then I guess he was OK with it. Only Allen can make a decision as to what happens in his company . If I was such a terrible employee then why did he ask me to come back?

This was not an easy decision to make . Allen has let me take pics before wether he was present or not . I can only bring issues to someones attention for so long. After awhile it becomes evident that someone is not listening. I have been in contact in with Allen since before this post . I'm answering any questions he asks me . Anything of a personal nature will not be posted unless it contains something pertinent to this thread. Allen can come here and speak for himself , I can only tell you of my experiences and my conversations.

 

[snakebstr]

Micheal Shelton, You are just assuming that everything that is said on the BOI is TRUE. Sometimes things are NOT what they seem. YES by the PHOTO's shown on the BOI by BRYON seem to be the way he keeps his cages but I heard that they were OUT OF TOWN for 4 days as we all know in 4 days alot of snakes/reptiles can CRAP and make a cage look messy, I also heard through another person that cages are CLEANED once a week at Big Daddy Wholesale, and that could explain why the cages were a little dirty, Do any of you here take care of more than 50 snakes/reptiles at one time? I know if I go out of town for a weekend I come back to messy cages, so I know for sure that 4 days you would have plenty to clean up. ALSO MICHEAL I couldn't tell much about the photo's because they were NOT GOOD QUALITY photo's at all...VERY BLURRY..maybe you have bad vision and can see more than me. And Micheal if you were not so STUPID you would have read where I stated that I am NOT A FRIEND OF ALLEN's. I know him from the SHOWS where I see him and where I have bought and sold snakes to him. But as far as being a friend I don't consider myself a personal friend of Allens, Yes I have known him for several years through the shows in Alabama and his Animals always look good. I would BUY from him anytime and I have 50,000's worth of ball pythons in my collection. My gut tells me that Bryon no matter what he says had a SCORE to settle and he did it on the BOI, MY point is if BRYON was so Worried about the ANIMALS in the PHOTO's he took, and I did SAY HE TOOK, then he would have CLEANED THEM....BOTTOM line...No matter what ALL of you on here think only 2 people know the TRUTH and that is Allen and Bryon. And if what I heard about them being gone for 4 days is true of course you would have dirty cages and spilt water dishes, That is what snakes do. And MICHEAL my mind was made up when I saw this SET-UP of a POST for REVENGE if you cannot see the OTHER MOTIVES then you need GLASSES. Why would someone that worked with his Boss the day before and for 6 weeks all of the sudden take photos with dated news papers and post them on the BOI. A friend of mine talked to Allen and Allen says he has NO CLUE why Bryon is doing THIS TO HIM and that they had been gone for a few days. I am not sure if this is true but it is the word out now. But I guess the BOI always has people on here that have NOTHING better to do than slam someone for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. People on here are too quick to believe ANY poster when the post hits and then you all start bashing, If you think I am BSing just read MOST of the Responces they all believe BRYON, First Bryon wants to put Big Daddy Wholesale out of Business for good then I read he just wants to make him clean his act up... Well guess what Big Daddy wholesale sales alot of animals and if they were kept so poor then he wouldn't be selling as many now would He? IF your cages were kept dirty and nasty wouldn't your animals show it....YES they would....I see NO sick animals maybe a dead frog, but amphibians die fast without fresh moisture, that is the main reason I don't do them, I don't even sell frogs, and other amphibians nor will I ever. But anyway you do gooders on here have made up your mind that Allen is a BAD GUY and are gonna do everything on here to slam his business without getting the facts. But anyway maybe Bryon and Allen will Kiss and make up and Bryon will say that he acted childish by posting all of this non-sense. :scatter: Outta here, David

 

[snakebstr]

Bryon,
If I may ask then why did you start your bitching with all of the things you were hired to do but you had to do other stuff? YOU STATED that you were not hired for all of the other stuff that kept getting added. If you worked 9-11 hours a day for 6 weeks it seems to me that you didn't do YOUR job very well. But yet you found time to take the pictures you did. You should have been cleaning cages rather than taking pictures is my POINT. I am not saying Allen's cages were the cleanest in the business because that is something I don't know...Like I said before I have NEVER been to his HOUSE or STORE so I just don't know for sure. But by reading YOUR first few Posts it seems to me like YOU are MAD at HIM for Something other that the way he kept his snakes/reptiles. I don't agree with everything Allen does but I do know at the SHOWs I have seen him at his snake looked good. If he was neglecting them it would show at the shows. I just don't understand why you would work for someone for 6 weeks until last night(saturday) and then slam him on Sunday. Sounds Odd to me. To tell you the Truth I really don't like Allen that much and he is hard as hell to deal with for me but I do not believe that is cause to slam him. But I do respect him when we do get together to make a deal even if it don't go my way. All in all I believe him to be honest and stand behind what he sales. But anyway I hope you and Allen can work your problems out, you just shouldn't have tried to hurt his business in the way you did. See ya David

 

[BryonsBoas]

Doubt I'll be posting anything about being childish. As far as Allen goes , I've let Allen know I want no association with him any longer. He goes his way , I go mine. Dave , you seem to trouble reading a few things.

1- Nothing personal has been brought into this .

2 - I had more to do than just clean tubs.

Since you have just an outstanding reputation I'll just mosey over to the corner and cry a bit now since you said I was bad. LMAO

Try posting in a more professional manner and maybe , just maybe , you might be taken seriously at least once. So far I just can't take your posts seriously for some reason. I have nothing to hide nor gain by this thread.

Do I hope Allen shuts down ? If he changes his priorities and the way he treats people and animals, no .He'll have a very long rough road ahead of him , but it will be solely up to him to make things better.

If he doesn't change anything , then yes. You cannot look at everyone as a potential payday , you cannot treat animals in such a way that the conditions resemble a sewer.

Is this a personal attack ? No , it wasn't to begin with and it still isn't. This is merely a warning with photo evidence and a description of my experiences.

 

[psyhodad]

At this point I think the animals well being should be first and foremost. Has animal control been notified of these conditions? Secondly, is it safe to assume that the mice are kept in these same deplorable conditons? Do they lack basic care such as adequate food, water, ventilation and protection from extremes in temperature and/or climate? If the answer was no to any of those then that is a violation of the Animal Welfare Act. You can notify your local USDA office since warm blooded animals are involved, and they will investigate.

 

[psyhodad]

My bad. It should have read "if the answer was yes to any of those"....

 

[shrap]

Bryon,

It is very obvious that Mr. Evans is VERY close with Allen Belcher otherwise he would not be so hostile and insulting. If he was just a common acquaintance that just had a business deal or two with him then his approach to this matter would be very different.

It is plain to see he is not being exactly truthful in regards to his relationship with Mr. Belcher, so I find it hard to believe he is being exactly truthful in anything else he is saying.

And last but not least it is very obvious the vast majority of this board, with the notable exception on Mr. Evans, strongly agrees with what you did. You did the community a great favor by bringing this here.

 

[WebSlave]

I STRONGLY suggest that everyone keep their emotions in check while posting on this thread. I had to fine and suspend five (5) people for derogatory name calling. And I seriously thought things were getting better here after the crackdown on enforcing the rules.....

 

[Lucille]

I agree that posts can be made without anyone calling names and being derogatory. That being said, today was the first day I read this thread and I am glad the BOI is here so that people with concerns about business practices and animals can express them (without name calling).
I do not think that wholesalers need to necessarily have cute display cages with decorative branches and so on. I do think that animals in captivity are entitled to food, water, warmth, and basic cleanliness. I do not think situations other that life threatening natural disasters excuse this obligation, and I think if one is going out of town one can hire help so that animals are not left in squalor.
Those who have many animals are not entitled to have below standard care just on account of the number of animals they have. I think that if one's operation has grown to that extent, one should hire additional help so that one's animals live in basicly hygienic conditions.
If this is not possible because of the expenses involved, then clearly it is time to either streamline and make the daily upkeep more effective in order to achieve basic standards, or retreat a bit and have fewer animals so that their care is more manageable.
There are pictures here on Fauna of the reptile rooms of some of the people here who have or sell reptiles, and I have in mind one particular pic of a gecko vendor whose gecko room is immaculate and inviting.
These animals depend on us, all animals in captivity depend on us, we should not let them down.

 

[screamdreams]

I'm still too pi$$ed off about the pathetic officiating job in last nights game to really comment on this thread while keeping my emotions in check but I guarantee you that my list of people who not to buy from just got a little longer, and for anyone defending keeping animals in these conditions, anoles or not, you're on that list to. Thanks Byron, and thanks BOI.

 

[norsmis]

I agree that posts can be made without anyone calling names and being derogatory. That being said, today was the first day I read this thread and I am glad the BOI is here so that people with concerns about business practices and animals can express them (without name calling).
I do not think that wholesalers need to necessarily have cute display cages with decorative branches and so on. I do think that animals in captivity are entitled to food, water, warmth, and basic cleanliness. I do not think situations other that life threatening natural disasters excuse this obligation, and I think if one is going out of town one can hire help so that animals are not left in squalor.
Those who have many animals are not entitled to have below standard care just on account of the number of animals they have. I think that if one's operation has grown to that extent, one should hire additional help so that one's animals live in basicly hygienic conditions.
If this is not possible because of the expenses involved, then clearly it is time to either streamline and make the daily upkeep more effective in order to achieve basic standards, or retreat a bit and have fewer animals so that their care is more manageable.
There are pictures here on Fauna of the reptile rooms of some of the people here who have or sell reptiles, and I have in mind one particular pic of a gecko vendor whose gecko room is immaculate and inviting.
These animals depend on us, all animals in captivity depend on us, we should not let them down.

Lucille you are so right! I hear so many people use this excuse as to why there is poop in there cages. Yes I know taking care of a large collection is hard work. I only have 20 or so rat snakes and they keep me busy almost everyday. But to use this excuse for the condition those pics show is inexcusable. A snakes cage does not get that bad in 4 days. That is obviously weeks if not months of neglect. And to expect one person to rectify this (Bryon) between doing all the other things is ridiculous.
Bryon my friend, I thank you for bringing this to light. I hope your actions do something positive for those animals. Allen, if you read this, please change your ways and get those animals in clean conditions. They didn't ask for you to put them in a plastic box where they cant get away from their own feces.

 

[Cat_72]

After seeing those pictures of animals in such horrific conditions, I can't believe ANYONE could defend Allen, friend or not. If someone doesn't see a problem with that, they perhaps should take a long, hard look at why they are in this business as well.

Bryon, you've done not only potential buyers a favor, but hopefully these animals as well. You've done the right thing bringing this here.....don't let ANYONE make you second-guess what you've done.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bryon, you say its "not personal"...

I think that you have made it quite clear that you brought this here to both warn people about Allen's animals, and in the hopes that Allen would improve his husbandry and that the animals conditions would then improve. I agree completely that the warnings were needed, as the conditions were deplorable.

At the end of your very first post, you add this:

On a side note Allen is currently setting up a show promotion company . If you decide to be a vendor there , good luck . Allen told me of his plans in which he sells the tables for the show then slash his prices on his animals well below the vendors so they can't outsell him.

Is not price-point a competitive tool availalable to all? I am puzzled at why you included this additional information.

 

[The BoidSmith]

The moment Bryon got involved because he didn’t like what he saw it became a personal issue. There’s nothing wrong with that. Now, if Allen sells tables to vendors at a show it’s because they (the vendors) have the expectation of doing well with their sales. Allen makes his cut pre-show (selling tables) so there’s no harm if he sells his animals at cost. If he does well selling “tables” he can even slash the price of his animals below cost and still be ahead economically. Is this a good business practice? Not in my opinion. He is streamlining buyers towards his own business by dropping his prices. He is not making money on the animals? It doesn’t matter to him, as he already made it with the tables. Of course Allen will also learn this in time, as vendors who suffer this strategy will more than likely will not be repeat customers of his the following year. As a vendor, would this kind of competition upset me…?

Regards

 

[Griz]

You start it I will finish it!!!!!!

It does not appear that you have finished anything other than going down in a big ball of flames right along with Allen.

I don't care how long you are gone, there is absolutely no justification in allowing your animals to live in that squalor.

Bryon, if you truly do believe in what you are doing then I would highly suggest making a few phone calls letting the proper authorities know.

Griz