animal planet

[R. Eventide]

You might want to rethink that statement. I saw a couple things from Nat Geo that just turned my stomach last night. On the other forum that I am an Admin on I asked for "your fav herp related youtube videos." After watching one that was posted a video from Nat Geo was in the related section. Guess what it was about. Killing snakes. They were clubbing a RTB in what looks like native habitat then beheaded it... and they had another clip where they beat and beheaded a viper that was in a sandy habitat. I had to turn off the computer after that. Nat Geo was just sensationalizing the clubbing and killing of snakes.

Ugh. Makes me sad to see National Geographic going downhill like that.

I was with them all the way until they put out a quick article about he Florida Burms that was completely one-sided (PETA's side), stating false information as fact and such. They realized their mistake fairly quickly (but only after getting lots of negative feedback) and put out another article from the reptile keepers' perspective, but to me, the damage had already been done. If they can't publish thought out, well-balanced articles about something I actually know a little about, then how can I trust their other articles about stuff I know nothing about?

 

[gsrept]

there in lies the problem no one can publish a nuetral opinion on a problem you are always swayed one way or another. and these so called animal activists or tree huggers have bigger agendas this is just away to back door there way in. and as usual the average joe enjoying his or her hobby gets the shaft.

 

[Reptileman81]

I only read the first couple post to this and decided to reply. The problem is not the couple of people here and there that let a snake go or gets out. How many have even been down to south FL. I have!! Lived in FL my whole life. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY NONE NATIVE ANIMALS ARE LOOSE DOWN THERE. I bet it is over 1000 and around 100 that are breeding and making habitat here. Its not from owners though oh no. The AIR PORT is where most of these animals congregate. Why is this from all of the illegal exporting of animals. Then they get here with them and if they get any idea they might be checked they just let the animals loose to avoid fines and jail. That is where are biggest problem is. It doesnt happen in other states cause most animals cant handle the weather in other states. But things are perfect for almost anything imported to the US in FL to thrive and breed and spread.

Some of you may know about these and some may not. Not sure how far they have gone. But Love Bugs!!! Or as some call them F*&% Bugs. That is all they do and then die. They come in the billions every year and destroy paint on cars and homes. Where did these come from you may ask. Florida University!!! Thats right the Gators. They made them in a lab to eat the mosquitos. Well they dont do that. So did they get in trouble for it no.

My point here is its the big companies and organizations and importers fault for all this. But they will put blame on the little guy and then tell him/her that you can no longer enjoy what you love in life cause someone else messed it up for you. It was not your neighbor either. No it was the big corporations, universities, importers, air ports, Department of Fish and Game them selfs.

So what is the plan of action send anyone and there uncle down there for open season on pythons. So the one or 2 they find out of the 100,000 they estimate is down there they kill. So they are making a big impact there not. Then you look at the amount of wild life and plant life that will be destroyed in the process.

You all should look at the article in playboy. It tell all about the scam. Dont remember what issue it is but it was around the middle of last year though.

 

[R. Eventide]

Actually, a lot of invasive species--both here and abroad--are not from importers. The critters are stowaways. That's how the brown tree snake got to Guam; they crawl into recesses in planes and leave when the planes land.

Also, I have yet to see a credible source estimate there are 100k Burms in the 'Glades. Given how hard it's been for even hunters to find them, I think this 100k number that the animal rights people throw around was just plucked out of the air.

 

[Reptileman81]

Also, I have yet to see a credible source estimate there are 100k Burms in the 'Glades. Given how hard it's been for even hunters to find them, I think this 100k number that the animal rights people throw around was just plucked out of the air.

Yes you are right. The number is more like 10K maybe. The reason they are having such a hard time finding them is they are not looking. What I mean is all they are doing is driving up and down roads and paths at night to find them. No one is going into the swamp to look.

Like I said read the article in Playboy from the middle of last year. It is a really good one on how the whole thing is a government scam to get money to fix the everglades. Not to kill snakes.

 

[gsrept]

i read an article the other day it came from some paper in southern florida, it said in a nut shell that more than 60% of the burms died in the cold spell that they had down there so the climate on whole is good for them but the way the weather is going there is no way that they would be able to survive outside of the keys it is obviosly that the us fish and game has taken there surveys and extremly exagerated them. i think we just keep fighting and hopefully everything will come to light and we can continue to enjoy the animals we love

 

[R. Eventide]

The fraction is probably a lot higher. There was a recent meeting/discussion in D.C. about the USGS' nine constrictor snakes and the Lacey Act. I don't recall who the group was, but some people were tracking the Burms, and 9 out of 10 snakes with radio tags died in the cold snap. With such small-number statistics, we can't say that 90% of all Burms in the Everglades died, but it does mean that 60% is probably a lower limit, at best.

 

[gsrept]

yes you are corect that was the article 8 of the 9 that died were females hate to see that happen to any snake but that is what we needed to keep up the fight and have a chance.

 

[falco]

Some of you may know about these and some may not. Not sure how far they have gone. But Love Bugs!!! Or as some call them F*&% Bugs. That is all they do and then die. They come in the billions every year and destroy paint on cars and homes. Where did these come from you may ask. Florida University!!! Thats right the Gators. They made them in a lab to eat the mosquitos. Well they dont do that. So did they get in trouble for it no.

Urban legend:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/lurkers/lovebugs.asp

 

[Reptileman81]

Urban legend:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/lurkers/lovebugs.asp

I dout it is a urban legend or a rumor. It is all a cover up. I am a big believer in conspericy theory. These bugs have not been here as long as I can remember. They were not here one day and the next here they are. It could not of been much more the 25 years ago they came around. If even that long.

So I guess that the fact that gators made gatorade is a urban legend too.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

So I guess that the fact that gators made gatorade is a urban legend too.

I am pretty sure that the University of Florida (Gators) in fact made Gatorade. If those are the gators you are speaking of, you are correct.

 

[gsrept]

the only thing i know is that there are a lot of people trying to hurt the reptile industry. i do not know how every one here keepr thier herps but all my snakes are in a locked room and no one is allowed in there unless i am present. its not because of the high end snakes but because i do not want any one to be bitten should they try to handle any of the snakes i am the only one that knows there individual personalitys and therefore i insist on being there.as for the bugs and gatorade i do not know but there are definatly things released or escaped from science labs all the time and no one ever hears about it.

 

[Reptileman81]

the only thing i know is that there are a lot of people trying to hurt the reptile industry. i do not know how every one here keepr thier herps but all my snakes are in a locked room and no one is allowed in there unless i am present. its not because of the high end snakes but because i do not want any one to be bitten should they try to handle any of the snakes i am the only one that knows there individual personalitys and therefore i insist on being there.as for the bugs and gatorade i do not know but there are definatly things released or escaped from science labs all the time and no one ever hears about it.

Hell yeah. All the time. But because our hobby and passion is disgusted by some we are to blame and be punished for it. If it was a cuddly pink kangaroo rabbit cross or something that was destroying the everglades people would be like its cutie we should keep it lol. Even if that creation was killing little kids. Dogs kill or seriously injure kids and adults everyday. But there is no band on all dogs why not???

 

[Fireside3]

I wouldnt be surprised if Animal Planet is just another front for all of the anti-animal groups in the world. Its propaganda in a nutshell. I know there are tons of Steve Irwin fans out so I hold all statements regarding him but, he was probably the most irresponsible reptile enthusiast out there. If I want to watch animals shows, I will watch National Geographic, and the old 70s shows at that. Those REALLY taught us what animals were like in their natural habitat.

You can call it propaganda, but the problem is a real FACT. If there weren't irresponsible reptile keepers in the hobby, there wouldn't be this problem then would there?

I know the problem exists, and that it is not understated. I know too many people in FL.

As a rescuer and wildlife rehabber, I'd say the answer is that you should do a better job of policing your hobby, and a BIG item on my list with sellers...is INDISCRIMINATE sales!

I have been involved with herps for over 25 years, and I was even a wild collector in a past life before being reformed as a rescuer and wildlife rehabber. It's my opinion that most sellers simply make a sale to whomever has the money, and a lot of times this is long distance, and don't know the buyer at all.

I, on the other hand, don't put an animal in anyone's hands who hasn't filled out and passed an application process where their knowledge is tested.

True most people aren't going to turn a high dollar value animal loose, but not everyone here and on other sites is selling high dollar value animals either. That doesn't represent the majority of herp keepers. Most aren't keeping high value animals.

Second, the problem species aren't often high dollar animals to begin with. I get contacted frequently about taking in big dangerous species that the people can't GIVE away! Whether its a "hot", or a Burmese or Retic, or a big male Iguana with a bad attitude. Those kinds of animals end up getting dumped by irresponsible buyers. This hobby is all too full of those kind.

I see a lot of denial and putting heads in the sand when it comes to these issues in the herp community. I was part of taking in animals from the SPCA Arlington,Tx. / USGE seizure. As an SPCA Placement Partner, my rescue org took in more than 2,100 of the 26,000+ animals confiscated from USGE. During and after this event, I saw a lot of people in the herp community with their fingers in their ears about the situation...claiming that it was all "animal rights" activists fabricating evidence. I saw a complete knee jerk dismissal from many in the herp community, who did not look objectively at evidence at all, simply because PETA or SPCA were involved.

As someone who was involved and took in more than TWO THOUSAND animals...I can tell you the charges against USGE were not made up, and this sort of situation gives the commercial aspect of the herp community a fairly well deserved black eye.

The problem of encroachment by non-native species in the southeast is not all at the feet of irresponsible individual keepers who let them loose. Some of the blame is on importers of wild caught animals too, which pass through ports like Miami. This community is still rife with that kind of trade too, and USGE and Jasen Shaw exemplified that. Shaw is now wanted by the feds for smuggling in case anyone hadn't heard.

 

[Fireside3]

I do have to agree about Steve Irwin, at least a little bit. I do think he did a ton of good, but it doesn't excuse his poor practices (tailing venomous reptiles, for instance).

Steve Irwin did do a ton of good, and in my opinion it far outweighs any aspect you feel might have been "poor practice".

I regard your opinion as a matter of relativity and experience. I have been tailing Crotalids for about 25 years, and never been fang bitten. Only nicked once by a rear tooth. Steve Irwin also did this all his life, and to my knowledge was never bitten by a hot. It wasn't even a snake that got him. Granted it wasn't responsible of the producers of his show to air such footage to the would be imitating public, but that is part of what got him killed...pressure from his producers to take more chances, and with animals with which he had no comparable experience, as he did with snakes and crocs.

Personally, I would opt against tailing any Elapid, and in my older age I mainly confine my tailing activities these days to impromptu rescue attempts from a road...but the fact remains that with certain venomous snakes and certain situations, I personally feel comfortable "tailing" if need be, and I don't see it as necessarily reckless. It might be reckless for someone of lesser skill and experience.

Mike
Wichita Falls Reptile Rescue
National Wildlife Rehabilitators Assoc.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

Whats the REAL fact Mick? Do you believe evrything your govt tells you? There are many so called facts out there so which ones are true? 10,000 Burmese Pythons in Fl let loose by irresponsible reptile owners? You quote me when I call Animal Planet propaganda simply because it is. It DOES have an agenda and it only covers one side of the story. The defnition of the word propoganda is...

"Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda."

Tell me now how they are telling my side of the story or the many stories of the people just like me.

 

[tex_herp]

I miss Wild America.........

 

[tex_herp]

I seldom watch animal planet anymore, shows like fatal attraction and the other one about burms and nile monitors seem like propaganda to me. It seems like they are more into creating mass hysteria and not actually trying to fix the problem. I get it from all sides with animal planet, i love reptiles and i love pit bulls........lol

 

[Fireside3]

Whats the REAL fact Mick? Do you believe evrything your govt tells you? There are many so called facts out there so which ones are true? 10,000 Burmese Pythons in Fl let loose by irresponsible reptile owners? You quote me when I call Animal Planet propaganda simply because it is. It DOES have an agenda and it only covers one side of the story. The defnition of the word propoganda is...

"Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda."

Tell me now how they are telling my side of the story or the many stories of the people just like me.

I don't necessarily see that they are obligated to tell your side of the story, or that "your side" is relevant to the issue they showcased. They are not bound to give you equal time, because as far as I can tell the "fairness doctrine" has not been passed yet.

The fact that many herp keepers are responsible does not negate the truth that far too many are not, and that there is a SERIOUS non-native invasive species problem in FL. and the rest of the southeast, and this has been caused in LARGE part by reptile importers and irresponsible reptile keepers. I recently talked to a friend in Ft Lauderdale, and was shocked that it is worse than even I thought.

I don't have the particulars of this broadcast by animal planet, but I do happen to know the problem is real, and it is a big one. I also happen to know that many people in this community label anything and everything that they don't agree with as "animal rights propaganda".

I am a long time herp keeper, and a keeper of "hots"...but I have the intellectual honesty to admit a problem I see, and one that has become ever more apparent since I became a rescuer and wildlife rehabber where I deal with this crap all the time.

And by the way...don't try the "do you believe everything you gov tells you" line with me...I've been a field trainer and Constitutionalist patriot since 1994 when I left the US Army....long before anyone ever thought of a "Tea Party" movement...and long before most of you ever heard of Ron Paul...so save it.

 

[Reptileman81]

Ok I really cant think of the big name reptile breeder down south that I know of. But he was interviewed for the playboy mag middle of last year. It states from mostly his words as well as many other well known and respected people in the rep industry. The government is blowing the whole thing out of proportion to get money. Money they plan on using to fund all kinds of stuff. One thing being to fix up the everglades from what we man kind have done to it. Yes there is a infestation of a animal not from this part of the world. But they are trying to say that at the time of the playboy issue that the government estimated over a 100,000 burms loose down there. When the number is less then 10,000. Yes we do have a problem in FL with these animals and yes there are people out there that just let stuff loose. But its not as big as you put it off to be. When the 6 trackers they had down there (before they declared open season on burms in a national protected I might add wet land) were only coming across a snake a month the number is not as big as the government wants you to believe. The one snake that was found by the daycare center was planted by one of the trackers to a get the grants and laws going and to be get him a job to do nothing but drive up and down some dirt back roads hoping to come across a snake. Yes it is a propaganda made up by the government and implemented by out sourcing people like animal plant to make the world worry that they will be eaten my a 100 foot snake. (I know I way over exaggerated the 100 feet lol).