any one ever delt with 88reps (canyonreptiles)

[nicolai]

Lucille..

I understand what you are saying but you have to look at one thing. Pete came on here and admitted to everything that he did and also apologized for his wrong doing and where has that gotten him. There are still people on here that haven't and will never accept his apology and will keep hounding him forever.
You say that Adam has ruined his reputation in the reptile world forever... I think there are a few people on here that are going to make sure Petes reputation in the reptile world is ruined forever...
So I ask you..What is the benefit of coming onto this forum and admitting any wrong doing or apologizing for a wrong doing if it will continue to haunt you forever.
If We and I use the term We loosely, as a herp society fail to forgive those that are sincere in their apologies than what good are we. Should we be up on a pedestal above everybody else and be the judge and jury, and if we feel it justified sentence the person to " life outside the reptile trade" which forums like this have the power to do by ruining people reputations and future sales.
But low and behold if any of the "BIG" dealers or breeders screws up all we hear is "he will make it right" AND WHEN THEY DO ITS FORGOTTEN AND PEOPLE SAY "YOU SEE..... DON'T BLAME HIM, HE MADE IT RIGHT IN THE END SO HE'S A GOOD GUY", BUT TRY THAT WITH SOMEONE JUST STARTING OUT IN THE BUSINESS AND SEE WHAT THEY GET.(sorry for the caps).
This is only my opinion but if you think about it I think you'll see where I am coming from.What Adam did and his Racist views are almost unforgivable but what Pete did was make a mistake and is willing to suffer the consequences and after he has paid the piper I guarantee there will still be people hounding him on here over this issue.

I will probably take a killing on my reputation points again for speaking my mind and telling the truth, but hey..my heart feels like it has a burden lifted off it now that I said what needed to be said.

 

[ms_terese]

Nicholas,

I understand your concern for Pete. I'm here to tell you that while some in this community withhold absolution until they're sure that the wrongs are permanently righted, they do indeed provide that opportunity. I've seen it. People who have turned their behaviors from derogatory to the hobby into a credit to the hobby have been forgiven, supported, and accepted into this community.

Don't worry about Pete. If he's straightened out, it will all work out in the end. Just be patient.

 

[nicolai]

Nicholas,
Don't worry about Pete. If he's straightened out, it will all work out in the end. Just be patient.

I really hope you are right because I think that pete is a good guy that made a mistake and deserves a second chance like a lot of other people.. If I am wrong that everyone can give me the old "I told you so".
Everyone keeps telling me I am too forgiving of people and am to willing to overlook things...Well I know that I sleep good at night knowing that I did no one wrong and that i tried to help another.



P.S. Someone posted a link to that skin head page in this thread and I spent a long time reading though it and I found it very disturbing that there are still people out there with veiws towards others like they have. Just from reading that page and the linked pages I can tell you a few things about them.
1) they are skinheads due to fear of others
2) they are taught that hate at a very young age by their family, I dont think they learn it from the world around them
3) A lot of them do it out of peer pressure
4) they dont even understand their own veiws
5) they hate just for the sake of hating, no just reason for the hate.
6) they think they are better then others - why i dont know because they are the minority in thier veiws
7) they think they are christians but i can show you atleast 50 passages condemning what they do and believe.
8) they are a group of people that wouldnt have anything left if they didn't have thier skinhead beliefs because thats all they know.
9)they choose to hate what they dont understand or know.
10) Luckily it seems to be a declining society with more and more people educating themselves and understanding the world around them, and a lot of them finding true religion and understanding we are all one in the same.

Just my observations.

 

[cthulhu77]

Nicholas,
I was the one the posted the skinhead bit...I have had many friends who got into the whole movement, are probably still are. If you think it is a dying culture, you are really, really mistaken...the numbers continue to rise at an alarming rate.
Most of them can't figure out why I am not one of them...I really like a lot of the same music, I am blonde, blue eyed of germanic/danish origins...I just can't dislike someone because of a different religious belief, or skin colour.
Most of the skinheads are frustrated, poorly educated (a quick look at past posts should reveal this), and extremely dangerous. They are much more at home with an AK or MP5 than a book, and the overtures of "forgiveness" are considered by most that I know to be a sign of weakness.
I will never forgive Adam for his stances or his threats. The illegal activities that both Pete and Adam contributed to have been brought to light, and no, will never be condoned. Pete has a lot of uphill struggle to go through to remove the tarnish from his name, perhaps he will, perhaps he won't...
Adam, however, could give a rat's rear end of what all of you think of him, trust me on this one...I can see the incredible arrogance almost smoking from his posts...he thinks he is better than all of us, and will never, ever, be sorry for causing anyone any pain, or suffering...his world revolves around him and his cause.
I don't know how the reptile trade is going to deal with Adam and Pete...but last time I checked, they were both adult enough to know that what they did was wrong...and perhaps forgiving without any reservation is a little much for any of us...
greg

 

[cthulhu77]

Just out of the blue, and to show that not all counter culture movements are racially nuts, here is a rather fun video from a band called Laibach...
"Fear the Kittens"
http://www.rathergood.com/laibach/

 

[nicolai]

he's now selling on reptibid...

look what i found..
Starting bid: US $ 300.00

Time left: 9 Days 19 Hrs+

Started: Thu Dec 23, 07:36 AM
Ends: Thu Jan 06, 07:36 AM
Bids: 0 (bid history)

High bidder: No bids yet
US $325.00


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Location: peoria, az 85345




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88reptiles (feedback 1 ) )
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still in business...

 

[DAND]

I understand what you are saying but you have to look at one thing. Pete came on here and admitted to everything that he did and also apologized for his wrong doing and where has that gotten him. There are still people on here that haven't and will never accept his apology and will keep hounding him forever.
You say that Adam has ruined his reputation in the reptile world forever... I think there are a few people on here that are going to make sure Petes reputation in the reptile world is ruined forever...

Hey Nick,

Pete made his apology but it seems that he was not completely truthful when doing so. He claimed to have "only ONE sidewinder". Check the post about Pete and you will see where I pulled some quotes from another thread he started stating he has some others brumating. Pete was reading this thread when I started answering here and has been on the one about him since I have posted the question of his "only ONE sidewinder comment". He has not replied to my question. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but when in one post he is claiming to have some brumating and in another claiming to have had only one, sounds to me like there is some deception going on. If you also look back in this post I complemented Pete for admitting his mistake and making an apology and suggested he stay. Then he makes the "only one sidewinder" claim and I called him on it.

 

[DAND]

look what i found..
Starting bid: US $ 300.00

Time left: 9 Days 19 Hrs+

Started: Thu Dec 23, 07:36 AM
Ends: Thu Jan 06, 07:36 AM
Bids: 0 (bid history)

High bidder: No bids yet
US $325.00


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once a bid is placed.
Location: peoria, az 85345




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88reptiles (feedback 1 ) )
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still in business...

Actually he has a few items for sale.

1200 GRAMS OF MIGHT Item number: #11050170939 Days 19 Hrs+
Haitian ground boas for sale Item number: #1104484672 3 Days 15 Hrs+
the big green Item number: #1104917861 8 Days 16 Hrs+
Everglades rat Item number: #1104451533 3 Days 6 Hrs+
Baby wamena green tree Item number: #1105015009 9 Days 19 Hrs+
NICE ATBS Item number: #1105015543 9 Days 19 Hrs+

 

[cthulhu77]

Well, what a suprise. Do you mean that Adam is just going to try to circumvent all the normal channels of selling reptiles? Gosh! I wonder what else he has for sale???
Maybe some bruminating sidewinders????
greg

 

[DAND]

Well, what a suprise. Do you mean that Adam is just going to try to circumvent all the normal channels of selling reptiles? Gosh! I wonder what else he has for sale???
Maybe some bruminating sidewinders????
greg

Greg,

Pete is the one with the Brumating sidewinders. Adam only has the one Pete shipped him via other means than Delta.

 

[cthulhu77]

Oh, sorry...I thought that Pete had gotten rid of all of his venomous stuff...my mistake. Must have misread something on the line...
greg

 

[tenneseejed]

I had no problems doing buisness with Adam at Canyon State Reptile

I recieved a shipment from adam a few days before christmas,and the whole transaction went fine.I recieved a Blood python,and a pair of Red Tails and they were everything i had expected and was supposed to recieve.

Adam shipped first in a trade and was very polite and honest throughout the whole transaction.Hes emailed me making sure i am pleased with the snakes and inquiring on how there doing and making sure everything is ok.

I dont know what is going on with all you people on here and Adam,but as far as my buisness dealings with him it was a pleasure.No problems what so ever with him or the way he did buisness.And would and will be more than happy to do buisness with him anytime.

I have had alot of bad deals in my life but this wasnt one of them,You all need to just let it be!! Hes an alright guy. Thanks Jed

 

[tenneseejed]

I have never bought anything from or sold anything to Adam but I find myself compelled to write this.

I did a search on the names adam posted to check and found the following:

"RobRoy" - Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms

Tenessee_jed - Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms

[email protected] - Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms

If these are the login names for someone they aren't for this site. also it is never a good idea to give out people email addresses on open forum because that leaves them open to Spam and spyware and such. The better business practice is "please contact me for references". or " check my trader rating" or "check my site for customer feedback" or " tell me how I can make you comfortable making this transaction". maybe using a escrow account. there are a lot of ways to build up your reputation without throwing past customers at perspective customers. After you are establioshed people won't ask you to go out of your way to prove yourself, so its well worth the trouble in the begining.

Just trying to help you out Adam because maybe I will want to buy something from you or sell you something in the future. You seem to be off to a good start with your honesty so keep it up because everyones watching.

Nick Bonn

Hey there nicolai just to let you know i do exist and adam is not a liar he just typed my name down wrong im just tenneseejed [email protected]

 

[tenneseejed]

My gosh what a thread

Well i have finally got done reading all the post in this thread! While alot of things in this thread about adam i had no knowledge of .But from what i know of adam from doing buisness with him once, is the fact that hes a racist never came up,i dont really understand why it would have to and if it did why it should matter if theres no disrespect or harm being caused.Like i said in earlier post my one time was a good transaction.Perfectly legitimate

But this thread is has to much content and different topics,they need to just start a forum about adams issues.But im staying out of the rest of whatever this thread is going to turn into. Thanks Jed

 

[ravensgait]

I read it all and want to know what my prize is!!!

pant pant pant,, I can't see straight and my eyes hurt but I read it all. Man this has turned into a witch hunt! Yep the guy did wrong and can't be defended for who and what he has represented himself to be. Now it's my understanding that one of the people who got involved with Adam on this thread is some kind of law enforcement officer. If so this officer had plenty of information that a crime had been commited by page 10 so why is it that the problem wasn't dealt with buy Fish and Game(or what ever they are called in Az) and or the police long before it got to say page 25 ? Instead this has gone on and on and people are hounding this guy across the internet which to me seems very petty and well going beyound reason.(besides showing that some have way to much empty time on their hands) Sure some are worried that if the state or police get involved ie they bust the guy that it will look bad for all of us. I don't think we'll look so bad it will show that we police ourselves.

If for some reason the officer involved (or anyone else invloved) hasn't taken any action or they have tried to but no agency found cause to look into this. Then that should be posted here as well but instead we just have this ongoing witch hunt that seems headed for some kind of internet wide thread length record as its only real goal.

My own opinion of what I read is that yes laws were broken (from what I read here of said laws) yes the actions taken by these two could have caused harm and possible death and Adam showed himself to be hateful, I think most here can agree with that statement. Yet what was said was said here not on the Az site or on any other site that I know of. So why is it that if all these things they are accused of are true which they appear to be, the law in some form hasn't descended on them???

If the people who are involved in this feel that action should be taken then why haven't you taken it yet or if you have and things are not as they seem in this thread then post what you know as fact and inform us all of these facts . Or let it go if the guy is as bad as he apears then he'll hang himself. Just my thoughts on this very very long drawn out thread.

Randy Mackey

 

[nicolai]

sorry about that jed...

Hey there nicolai just to let you know i do exist and adam is not a liar he just typed my name down wrong im just tenneseejed [email protected]

sorry about not finding you on here.
I am glad to see you do exist.
I was only going with the info that Adam has supplied. I am also glad that your deal with adam went well, but now that you have read the entire thread would you still take the chance doing business with him again. just curious.

 

[cthulhu77]

"from what i know of adam from doing buisness with him once, is the fact that hes a racist never came up,i dont really understand why it would have to and if it did why it should matter if theres no disrespect or harm being caused.Like i said in earlier post my one time was a good transaction.Perfectly legitimate"

Wow. That is all I can say. Wow. No harm being caused? Perfectly legitimate???? Wow.

greg

 

[ms_terese]

some kind of law enforcement officer. If so this officer had plenty of information that a crime had been commited by page 10 so why is it that the problem wasn't dealt with buy Fish and Game(or what ever they are called in Az)

It was reported. For future reference, also keep in mind that various agencies that deal with CITES animals or laws that relate to native species frequent this and every other forum with similar content.

Instead this has gone on and on and people are hounding this guy across the internet which to me seems very petty and well going beyound reason.

Sure some are worried that if the state or police get involved ie they bust the guy that it will look bad for all of us. I don't think we'll look so bad it will show that we police ourselves.

Hounding this guy across the internet is HOW we police ourselves. Face it, if you point out to someone that they are acting both irresponsibly toward the hobby and illegally, and they respond with "Go **** your mother", it's a safe bet that they're not going to be very responsive to helpful suggestions.

Now, on to Jed's response:

But from what i know of adam from doing buisness with him once, is the fact that hes a racist never came up,i dont really understand why it would have to and if it did why it should matter if theres no disrespect or harm being caused.

It matters because some people would not want to be a party to the success of a person that holds views which may be immoral to the other person. I don't want to do business with someone who is a racist. I don't want to do business with someone who sells drugs. I don't want to do business with a smuggler or poacher.

How you can reason that there is no disrespect or harm being caused by someone who holds racist views is beyond my comprehension.

 

[oldherper]

Unbelievable.

Jed,
The whole IDEA and PREMISE of racism is wrapped around harm and disrespect. Racists are, by nature, disrespectful and harmful. It's what they do and what they live for. I know this by personal experience. My uncle was a security guard for the Grand Dragon of the Invisible Knights of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1960's. I grew up with the venom and hate that these people preached. I was dragged along to rallies a time or two (an effort to educate the Youth of the South, you know?). I saw how they hid behind masks and tried their best to terrorize anyone who was different from them or held different beliefs. I didn't understand it as a kid and I don't tolerate it as an adult. I've seen cross burnings and my uncle was involved in a murder trial in 1963 in Mississippi as a result of his involvement in this madness. Don't tell me there's no disrespect or harm...there most certainly is. These people are mentally ill and I have no desire whatsoever to do business with any of them. If we find that someone is openly a racist or skinhead or whatever in this business, hounding them to the end of the earth, if that's what's required to purge our community of it, is perfectly justified. We should be their worst nightmare. We should make them regret their very existence. Stalking? You ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[Ophis]

Doc1488

Let me throw a little light on Adams E-mail address meaning. DOC1488@etc...
DOC= Disiples of Christ. A racist skinhead gang in the movie American History X. This movie is a skinhead cult classic and some skinheads tatoo DOC on their bodies. 14= represents the phrase "14 words" the 14 words are "We must secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children". 88= Heil Hitler. Anyone who uses DOC1488 as his or her E-mail address is most likely a hardcore racist skinhead or neo nazi.