Aprylla Hall - Bad Guy

[Aprylla]

Why would it "possibly" take 14 days to refund him if she had his money? See how there are still some unanswered questions? Perhaps YOU should take your own advice and go back and re-read all the posts, seems you may be confused on a few points as well........

Yes, on July 14th, there was only a few dollars in my PayPal account at the time I made that statement. Within a few days after that, yes, I sold MANY items, on Ebay and elsewhere, to bring my PayPal account to a positive balance of $612.00.

The Buyer had stated over and over to me that he "wanted the snakes not the money". The Buyer NEVER asked me for a refund or ever stated he wanted on, prior to him filing a PayPal complaint. Had the Buyer e-mailed me on the 17th and said "hey look I don't want the snakes anymore, just send me back my money" I could and would have done so at that point. INSTEAD of doing that, the buyer asked me twice for the info about the person I was buying from. When I refused, and told him I would be out of town the next day just so that he would know why he wasn't getting an immediate response to his e-mails if he were to send one during that time (basically within 24 hours) he apparently got upset and filed a PayPal complaint without ever having asked me anything else or saying anything else to me at all. Also, during this whole time, the Buyer DID have my telephone number. Had any issues arose that he needed to discuss with me he could have done that. He even could have called me during the 24 hours I was out of town, as I did give him my cell #. If I were going to file a PayPal complaint on someone and wanted a refund, I certainly would pick up the phone and call them to see if they wanted to work something else out without having to get PayPal involved (being that everyone knows how slow they are).

The Buyer insisted up through just last night (or was it the night before?) that he wanted the snakes and not the money, still.

I think the Buyer "jumped the gun" (so to speak) and I had a bad set of circumstances to work with. I can TOTALLY understand why the Buyer would have been nervous in this situation. I have been in similar situations, but as a general rule I will pick up the phone and call someone which usually sets my mind at ease a little more (in most cases).

All in all, I am still hoping that Mr. Gilbert and I can still work this out as amicably as is possible after all of this.

 

[Gecko_Den]

A few questions

1- You spent his money before you shipped his snakes?

2- You offered him a refund, but only if he waited 2-3 weeks to receive the refund?

3- You sent pay Pal a tracking number instead of just refunding when the complaint was just filed?

4- You don't trust him to not cancel the dispute after receiving the snakes, sometime in the near future because it isn't convenient for you to get them from your supplier sooner, but you have had his money for almost three weeks now and expect him to trust you to send his snakes or a refund after he surrenders his only protection by cancelling the dispute?

I just wan't to be sure of the answer to these questions before I determine who i think is getting screwed here.

Don't take it personal, I know you have a good rep, but there is about 175 pages of another thread that shows people aren't always what they seem.

Aprylla, since you are here, could you answer my questions from my previous post? Thanks,

 

[Karen Hulvey]

See if people would just let her answer my questions, instead of injecting their interpretation of what the answer is, then I wouldn't have to keep typing so much....

You questions have been answered. Why does she have to rehash it over & over? This will all be resolved when Paypal sends the buyer his money so why keep asking questions?

 

[Aprylla]

My responses are in red again here.

A few questions

1- You spent his money before you shipped his snakes?

I believe that I have stated several times thought this thread that YES I did spend $400 of the $450 the buyer sent me. No, I had no other choice, When it was all I had and was faced with hurricance evacuation, I did what I had to do, and what I believe anyone else here would do to protect themselves and thier aniamls from possible harm. No I don't generally make it a rule to spend funds until someone has thier reptiles in hand, but in this situation, I did and I fully admit so.

2- You offered him a refund, but only if he waited 2-3 weeks to receive the refund?

I told him that it would POSSIBLY be July 29th (sorry, yes, "June" was a typo on my part) due to the fact that the 29th was the first possible date that I knew for CERTAIN that I would have $450.00 to send him. I had several items for sale on Ebay and elsewhere, but did not know when/if they would sell and/or how quickly I would get those funds luckily things sold relatively quickly and funds got sent sooner than I thought. I knew there was a possibility that I would have $450.99 to send him prior to the 29th, but didn't want to absolutely committ to it since, like I said, I didn't know for certain I would have it prior to that time. Please also see my otehr post. The Buyer never asked me for a refund anyway.

3- You sent pay Pal a tracking number instead of just refunding when the complaint was just filed?

No, I sent PayPal a copy of the Merchandise Credit Certificate that I had sent the Buyer. I sent it to him thinking it may put his mind at ease a little if he had something, a hard copy, in writing, showing that he was entitled to the reptiles he'd paid for. I did send it via USPS Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation as I do with everything I send out Priority. PayPal was only told that the Credit Certificate was sent to him and that there was a trackable method to show he had received it. I never claimed to PayPal or anyone else that the snakes had been sent. I never had a chance to refund anything because my account was FROZEN at this point (see previous posts, I think everyone here is clear that I couldn't do anything with the PayPal account other than view history and respond to PayPal's inquiries).

4- You don't trust him to not cancel the dispute after receiving the snakes, sometime in the near future because it isn't convenient for you to get them from your supplier sooner, but you have had his money for almost three weeks now and expect him to trust you to send his snakes or a refund after he surrenders his only protection by cancelling the dispute?

It's not that it "isn't convenient for me" to pick the snakes up sooner. I DO NOT HAVE the funds to make the trip to make my trade with the supplier until I have my final check form my ex-job, which will be tomorrow afternoon, the 29th. It is about an 8 hour trip. Gas is expensive and I had no other way to get there any sooner other than to put gas in the truck and go there. As I have previously stated, I am trading large household items for the snakes, which require me to drive there in a truck.

I just wan't to be sure of the answer to these questions before I determine who i think is getting screwed here.

Don't take it personal, I know you have a good rep, but there is about 175 pages of another thread that shows people aren't always what they seem.

I totally understand, but PLEASE do not compare me to the person involved with that other thread. These are most definitely two TOTALLY different situations.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Thank you Aprylla for answering.

Thank you Karen, for once again posting something that wasn't accurate, until Apryllas last post my specific questions were not answered. I guess that's why I asked Aprylla and not you.

 

[Aprylla]

Thank you Aprylla for answering.

Thank you Karen, for once again posting something that wasn't accurate, until Apryllas last post my specific questions were not answered. I guess that's why I asked Aprylla and not you.

Hey, please don't jump on Karen, she is just trying to help. No I don't know her personally, and I don't think she and I have done business before, but I think she was trying to help relieve some of the stress off of me. A few of the people around here know (she may be one of them) that I have also had some health issues that have recurred during/after the hurricane situation and are a little worried about me, but I will be fine. Just hate to incur another bill if I have to go to the doctor or ER. I haven't posted anything in this thread about it becuase it is totally unrealted to my business transactions. That is off topic, but I wanted to defend Karen since I know she was just trying to help me out.

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

I think you both got screwed but I don't think it's anyone's fault. I don't think Aprylla planned the hurricanes or her car breaking down or any of the other rash of bad events that took place. It was a lot to go through. The buyer also didn't likely plan on any of this and while I would think he would have been more understanding, some people just aren't when it comes to their money. Sometimes things happen that we have absolutely no control over and deals get messed up. I don't see where calling her a "bad guy" is warranted. Is she stalling? Maybe, she probably has no choice. She's selling her couch and jeans for christ sake...give the girl some time to get it together. She got caught up in a natural disaster. It's not like she went out and bought a bag of weed with your money. It sounds like she's doing all she can do to make good. I don't know either party here. Just what I have read but sheesh... I don't think anyone could possibly make all that crap up. I'm impressed that she has held together as well as she has. I'd trust this girl with my life just based on her will to survive. THink about...what if this was your sister...or daughter...or mother (not sure of the age thing here) That's pretty freaking heartless if you can't work with someone a little that just went through all this. Cut her some slack, cancel the complaint...You will get your money back.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

Thank you Karen, for once again posting something that wasn't accurate, until Apryllas last post my specific questions were not answered. I guess that's why I asked Aprylla and not you.

Yes your questions were answered but since you're having trouble comprehending what you're reading here are the post numbers and what she wrote. Now were your questions answered or not?

Post #90 is the answer to your question #1 (You spent his money before you shipped his snakes?)Again, I have explained this to you several times. I drained all the funds I had while evacuating for the hurricane. I also lost my job earlier in the month. I told you I would refund you on the morning fo the 29th if you wanted a refund. I also offered you replacement snakes and left it up to you to decide which option you wanted. You told me again and again that you wanted the snakes, not the money.

Post #62 is the answer to your question #2 (You offered him a refund, but only if he waited 2-3 weeks to receive the refund?)I would have gladly provided a refund if replacement snakes were not acceptable. I would have also issued a refund if he had asked. This was never the case. Mr. Gilbert stated many times over that he wanted the snakes and not a refund. Yes, I too feel he tried to add new stipulations to our deal afte the fact. I don't go around handing out the phone number for my supplier(s) or everyone could buy from them and I would make no money at all becuase other people would buy from them instead of from me.

Post #35 has the answer to your question #3 (You sent pay Pal a tracking number instead of just refunding when the complaint was just filed?)
I sent the buyer an e-mail stating that I had mailed out a Merchandise Credit Certificate good for 20 female ball pythons and reflecting the $450.00 he had paid for the,. The Credit Certificate stated that his snakes could be sent on or after August 1, 2005. I figured this might help him put his mind at ease, having something in writing from me. I submitted to PayPal that I had sent him this Credit Certificate, I even sent them a copy of it showing that I understood he was entitled to the 20 female ball pythons.

Posts #84 and #35 Have multiple answers to your question #4 (You don't trust him to not cancel the dispute after receiving the snakes, sometime in the near future because it isn't convenient for you to get them from your supplier sooner, but you have had his money for almost three weeks now and expect him to trust you to send his snakes or a refund after he surrenders his only protection by cancelling the dispute?)
Post #84Obviously I am not trusting enough to send him the snakes and then "hope" that he cancels his complaint, especially since PayPal has already been notified that it is ok to refund him ASAP. PayPal could take that money from my account and give it to him at any point now. I just can't risk sending Mr. Gilbert 25 snakes and then also be out my $450.00, I am already in too much of a financial bind right now to take a risk like that.
Post #35I also explained to him that I was making a trade with the guy I was getting the snakes form that involved me trading some larger household items that couldn’t be shipped (a couch, a huge table and things like that). I told him again that the snakes would be ready to be shipped on August 1st and assured him, again, that they would be shipped that day if someone would be there to sign for them.

 

[jojo1969]

I just wanted to say that I purchased a Beardie from Aprylla during all of this hurricane mess. I sent the money through paypal, and I dId not receive my beardie for approximately two weeks. I did not sign a complaint against her. I understood that circumstances happened out of her control. No one can predict a hurricane so I waited. I did receive the mass e-mails sent out. I was very happy with the transaction. She came through with the deal she said. Joanna

 

[Aprylla]

I just wanted to say that I purchased a Beardie from Aprylla during all of this hurricane mess. I sent the money through paypal, and I dId not receive my beardie for approximately two weeks. I did not sign a complaint against her. I understood that circumstances happened out of her control. No one can predict a hurricane so I waited. I did receive the mass e-mails sent out. I was very happy with the transaction. She came through with the deal she said. Joanna

I just wanted to say thanks for understanding that there were circumstances which delayed your dragon from arriving more quickly. I am glad that you are happy with your purchase from me and hope that we can do business again in the future (after I get back on my feet in a few months or so and am financially able to get back into reptiles).

Ok guys, I have a big day of 3 job interviews tomorrow and big days of traveling Saturday and Sunday, so I am having to go to bed early. Just wanted to let everyone know there will be no further posts from me tonight, LOL.

 

[ms_terese]

What if...?

Theoretical:

What if Shawn, after not having the snakes ship when they were scheduled to due to the situations outlined here, had to repair a broken down car in order to get to work and keep his job? Would his emergency have been less valid than Aprylla's? Would he still have been expected to be sympathetic to the hurricane situation above and beyond his own need to have his money returned? Would he have been expected to be the unwilling source of income to fund the necessary evacuation?

Yes, Aprylla was between a rock and a hard place. As I mentioned in my earlier post, many MANY people suffer through the hurricane seasons every year. Yet, what if Shawn's need for either the snakes (maybe he already had buyers?) or the refund were for an urgent need in HIS life? Would he still be the bad guy here? Would the requested 2 weeks of patience for either the replacement snakes or the refund still be considered absolutely acceptable?

 

[Gecko_Den]

Thanks Karen, I guess I was having comprehension problems, probably confused by all the extra fluff that was added to the answers in the previous posts, or by the way that some posts contradicted others. Like in post #62 when she says she would have gladly refunded his money, assuming he was willing to wait 2 weeks until she could raise the money. She accuses him of trying to add new stipulations to their deal when she basically said, the original snakes are gone, wait until I can pay you or wait until I can get more snakes. When she was first made aware of the PayPal dispute she could have ended it right then and there and hit the refund button. No need to talk to the buyer first, if he still wanted the snakes he wouldn't have disputed the charge, instead she chose to send them additional info, prompting the investigation to go forward and getting her account frozen
See until I asked her specifics it was a bit confusing because all of her previous answers were buried in too much extra explanation of her interpretation of events.
I feel bad that she went through such a string of problems, but at the same time I feel bad for the seller, since her problems became his problems when all he wanted was to buy some snakes. Fact of the matter is that he sent money in good faith, he expected to get snakes, instead he got tales of Hurricane evacuations, car problems, evictions, jobs being lost. he doesn't know her never did business with her before, yet he is supposed to trust that she is telling the truth and that she will make it all right. I don't blame him for getting worried and excercising his right to contact Pay Pal and file a dispute, from his perspective it looked like he may be getting screwed. I disagree that he came her and posted a bad guy post, he had turned it over to pay pal, he should have let them handled the situation and been done with it, but he did what he felt he needed to do, one of several bad moves by both parties.

So, regardless of whether or not you felt the questions had been previously answered, i felt there was still some grey areas and asked her specific questions. Why you felt the need to continue to respond to my posts, long after I made you aware that I was not interested in your interpretation of the facts, is beyond me.

 

[Junkyard]

Shawn I appreciate the e-mail post, you came through for me, she did give you the option to have your money refunded through PayPal. By the way I really do not remember reading that e-mail as was posted on page 11. Also she did spend your money. So all my questions are answered. I would probably do the same thing as her if I needed to get me out of a hurricane, I am sure most people would. You did as you thought was necessary I do not hold anything against you for that. Good luck. Keep us updated.

Aprylla, I do hope that things will get into order for you soon, I have been close to losing my place through wild fires here in San Diego, when you got to go, you got to go. Good luck to you too.

 

[loteer]

I never said shawn was the bad guy here. He was in his right to file a complaint if he fealt he was being scammed. Just in my opinion from what was posted that he acted a little too quickly.

Maby we are looking at this the wrong way. Aprylla did spend Shawns money before he recieved the animals. Whitch is a bad practice. But what if she didn't spend the money and left the animals in the house and the hurricane hit and they all died. Maby we should look at this as she was protecting his investment.

In any case i would have done the same exact thing. A hurricane may or may not be coming. What would you do? Spend the money to ensure the safety of the animals that had been purchased and myself for that matter. Or stay put and hope the hurricane doesn't come through and possibly lose all your animals and risk injury at the same time?

It is also not a good busuiness practice to operate without a financial cushion just in case of a problem. But she stated her lease was not going to be renewed and did not have the funds to relocate. Witch is the reason she decided to sell the animals. This was just an unfortunate chain of events that sucks big donkey doo doo.

IMO niether Shawn nor Aprylla are bad guys/gals.

 

[The BoidSmith]

In my opinion there have been excellent points brought up to explain both sides actions and responsibilities. In contracts that involve the possibility of a natural disaster interfering with the outcome there is usually a clause that states that the person/institution in charge of fulfilling a contract cannot be held responsible under that instance. They are labeled as “acts of God” and include natural disasters, specifically storms. Although there was no such a contract signed here one, could see how easily it could fall under that category.

act of God, Legal Terms And Concepts

An unforeseen and uncontrollable natural event, such as a hurricane, fire, or flood. For example, The publisher shall publish the work within twelve months except in case of delay caused by acts of God such as fires or floods or other circumstances beyond its control. It most often appears in legal contracts, where it is used to indemnify one party against a disaster that prevents it from carrying out the contract's terms. [Mid-1800s]

Regards.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Terese, you raise a valid hypothetical:

What if Shawn, after not having the snakes ship when they were scheduled to due to the situations outlined here, had to repair a broken down car in order to get to work and keep his job? Would his emergency have been less valid than Aprylla's?

From post 106, one possible answer:

however it shows irresponsibility on her (now his) part to not have some kind of bank account to dip into in case of an emergency.

I have already taken mild issue with this part of post #106, as have others in this thread. I think that many who have come to Aprylla's defense in this thread would be sympathetic to any emergency situation. If people were due refunds from Shawn at the time, and there was going to be a two week delay because of his own emergency situation, many of us would have lived with it, and perhaps not further compounded his misery by freezing what little assests he had. While I may not have taken the steps Shawn did when he did, I understand his reasons for doing so.

Jim Flaherty
The Chameleon Company. LLC

 

[Dennis1]

Bull

I dont beleive Mr. Gilbert set out to freeze Ms. Hall's paypal funds,He was just protecting himself from a possible scam!
In my oppinion He did the right thing(he didnt know if she was B.S'ing him or not)
If i send someone my money for Reptiles (Or anything for that matter) I expect my reptiles or a TIMELY refund
I Definetly wont buy anything from anyone that thinks they can tie up my money without my permission NO MATTER THE CONSEQUENCES PERIOD
(or the legal mumbo jumbo) Or their Good Guy Status
Basicaly I would like the CHOICE to loan someone $400+
No one should tell me i have to

 

[The BoidSmith]

Dennis,

I dont beleive Mr. Gilbert set out to freeze Ms. Hall's paypal funds,He was just protecting himself from a possible scam!

And I don’t disagree with you. Had I been in a similar situation I would’ve probably acted similarly.

In my oppinion He did the right thing(he didnt know if she was B.S'ing him or not)

We agree 100%.

If i send someone my money for Reptiles (Or anything for that matter) I expect my reptiles or a TIMELY refund

Absolutely! In countless occasions we have stated that the money should not be spent until the goods are delivered. Regrettably this is a situation that was completely out of the sender’s control. It is very likely that sending live animals under those circumstances could’ve resulted in carrier delays and risk the animals lives. We recently had to cancel a deal with Ed Clark due to the unusually high temperatures. He had already paid $200 for the animal and I returned his money as we both agreed it was risky to ship. That speaks volumes about him understanding that the animal’s safety came first rather than he need to have it delivered. Had the animals motive of this thread been shipped, delivery delayed because of the weather, and death in transit occurred, we would be discussing a whole different issue and responsibilities. It’s the shipper the one that has to make the ultimate decision on what’s best for the animals. In this case it was further complicated by the fact that the shipper had to decide fast what would cause the least damage.

I Definetly wont buy anything from anyone that thinks they can tie up my money without my permission NO MATTER THE CONSEQUENCES PERIOD
(or the legal mumbo jumbo)

Regrettably we live in a society where the “legal mumbo jumbo” (as you chose to label it) protects every side of a transaction. The choice that was made here was between making sure the living creature’s well being was not jeopardized (both human and animal) or to fulfill the demands of a person to receive “merchandise” on a timely fashion. What would have been your choice?

 

[critical bill]

I dont beleive Mr. Gilbert set out to freeze Ms. Hall's paypal funds,He was just protecting himself from a possible scam!

No, he didnt set out to freeze her account. But when Aprylla made it clear that in order for her to process the refund he had to lift the freeze what should have been done? This isnt rocket science. He wants his money back and Aprylla wants to send it back. Ther is only one way Aprylla could do that voluntarily, and that is with no freeze on her account.

In my oppinion He did the right thing(he didnt know if she was B.S'ing him or not)

That is why we look so heavily to feedback and reputation. I dont believe he considered either and unforutnately that is quite neccessary to guage the appropriate level of action. Looking at Aprylla's it would be hard to imagine she is anything but decent and honest and that his actions were appropriate for this situation.

If i send someone my money for Reptiles (Or anything for that matter) I expect my reptiles or a TIMELY refund

Most sellers reserve the right to hold off on shipping when weather conditions do not permitt the safe travel of the animals. Most sellers would not offer a refund, timely or not, when weather (an act of god) adversly affects the anticipated date of delivery. This was the intial problem.

I Definetly wont buy anything from anyone that thinks they can tie up my money without my permission NO MATTER THE CONSEQUENCES PERIOD (or the legal mumbo jumbo) Or their Good Guy Status

Heh heh......I'd say you might find it tougher to now find a seller who will sell to you given what you wrote. Cooperation and consideration are key elements to a positive transaction. Your hard nose stance might have more than a few sellers shying away. Most sellers I think would prefer an aggravation free transaction with little to no unnecessary ass kissing over flipping a small profit......any day of the week.

I really have to say that your remarks don't make you seem hard, but rather dumb and uncooperative. The affects of such comments might have you banned by quite a few sellers in anticipation that any unforeseeable situation would have you running to the BOI while giving no consideartion to their hard earned reputation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is....with your no nonsense attitude, it might be best for you to consider cash and carry sales at your local petshop.

BTW- is this the same name you use on reptibid?

 

[Jim O]

This thread has lived way past its usefulness. The transaction should be ended once PayPal unfreezes Aprylla's account.

One thing many are harping on is that Aprylla spent "Shawn's money". She did not. Aprylla spent Aprylla's money. Shawn had paid for merchandise that Aprylla had every intention of providing and I believe would have provided had not for a series of disasters. How Aprylla manages her cash flow can be debated ad nauseam but the plain fact is that it's no one's business but Aprylla's. She did just lose a job, a house, multiple reptiles, and had her car break down in a short span. That qualifies as "unusual" circumstances. She has made an honest effort to "make this right" as best she can.

The real question is "Did Aprylla set out to screw Shawn?". Most here agree that the answer is "No, she did not.". That stuff happened beyond her control is tragic. That the PayPal account was frozen is also unfortunate.

Does Aprylla not having sufficient capitalization to run a reptile "business" make her a bad gal? I don't think so. The vast majority of Americans have similar cash flow situations. Most don't have a big cushion in their bank accounts and many have credit card debt in excess of their total assets, making them technically bankrupt. As Jim Flaherty pointed out, Aprylla may indeed meet the criteria for bankruptcy protection and guess what would happen? Shawn would be entitled to neither snakes nor a refund. That may be so much "legal mumbo jumbo" but it is also a fact.

On the other hand, if you believe that Aprylla took the money without any intention of providing the snakes, then she is a scam artist.

So which is it folks? Scam artist, or also a victim of circumstances?

As for Shawn, I don't see that he did a whole lot wrong here either. He was worried about his hard earned $450 and thought he was being jerked around. He has shown good faith by withdrawing his complaint. Let's hope that he is proved to have acted in his best interest.

So...the moral is there is no bad guy here, just two victims. Could either or both of them have handled this better? The argument can be made any of several ways, but they each did what they thought was best.