B.O.I. participants play favorites?

[Ophis]

Thank you Ma'am. That was the kind of intelligent post I was looking for. Not the Buffoonish drivel offered by those just looking for conflict. I wouldn't have been hounding if the gallery had offered some type of coherant response.
I would have to disagree with you that KS forums are not strong when referring to Herp care, Herp issues etc... as for being weak on drama, there I would agree. I would also agree that one reason they are weak on drama is that they don't want to upset the apple cart in regards to their advertisers.

As far as competition with KS for advertising goes, using Rich's number of 19,000 sets of eyes being members here as well as others who visit, but don't register, coupled with the ability to offer cheaper advertising than Kingsnake on this site, I would say the market was and still is ripe. Far from ridiculous.

It would have been a more difficult roe for Rich to hoe, but in the long run I believe it would have done less to diminished the power and integrity of this site.

 

[dwedeking]

I left the figure open so Dan could decide how much he was willing to donate two years from now.

It will be less than the money I mistakenly donated in the past.

Wes, I'm going to have to disagree on your post. You frequently stand up for the underdog (a fact which I respect you for). The one that is kept from posting on the BOI is the lone guy out there that buys one snake a year or maybe two that has a bad deal. The guy that reaps the reward is the one that screws over the no-name buyer and keeps it below a set amount. As we know thiefs are rarely motivated or ambitious their marks are not the larger, well known names in the industry.

This next question I ask in seriousness. Is there another site out there (outside of the reptile world) that charges for posting on a forum? I'm curious to study their system to see how it works.

 

[WebSlave]

It will be less than the money I mistakenly donated in the past.

Ah, interesting comment, Dan. Are you really that spiteful over this? So was the bet placed with your hopes that this site won't be here in two years? Are you really that upset that you would wish that? You act like I have taken something away from you in all this. What exactly was it that you expected from "the money mistakenly donated" that has now been taken away from you? It doesn't really sound much like "donations" at all to me, but instead investments with a future return you were expecting. The MILLIONS of impressions your banner ads got over the years count for nothing, I guess. Pity.....

Pretty hard line, isn't it Dan to tell a website owner to either run it your way or you hope it folds up and dies, now isn't it? Man, you sure had me fooled. You have to be one of the last people on earth I would expect that kind of attitude out of. But if there is one thing I have learned from running this site, it is that people will constantly surprise me.

But here's a tough one: What the heck are you doing here then? With that sort of attitude, I would expect this would be the last place on earth you would want to be. So tell me, just why are you still here then? What are you able to still get out of this site to make it worth your time and effort to be here? Obviously there is still something here you want.

Oh well. This does sadden me. I'm really sorry you feel that way, Dan. I think I have fully explained all my reasons about why this had to take place this way, as a business decision, as a practical solution to one of the most vexing problems on the BOI, and as a personal solution to what I need to get out of this site to make it worthwhile to ME to continue doing this sort of thing. I am sorry that none of those reasons were apparently good enough to meet the criteria of what you need to get back out of this site for your "donations".

But honestly, I seriously thought that people honestly interested in supporting THIS site would work to help it to survive, instead of pulling out all financial support at a time when it was much needed. Silly me. Fortunately it was a VERY rare event (matter of fact, Dan, I do believe YOU were the only one who did that), so it really didn't make any practical lasting effect except to just hurt my feelings.

Darn, this did turn out to be a rather instructive thread after all. Thanks Ophis!

 

[reptilebreeder]

It will be less than the money I mistakenly donated in the past.

Such a low blow. That is sad. Really, I don't understand the motivation of those who stay here, yet continually complain, deride, pout, whine, criticize, or whatever. As some know I stopped hanging out at KS, and I have mentioned in past threads why, but I don't go over there and constantly post about why "I'm right and all the posters are wrong". I don't like the policies over there, so I stay away. No drama, no trying to go over there and hammer my opinions on other KS participants, I just stay away. It just baffles me why people go through so much time and effort to do these things, like even starting this thread (BOI play favorites, how ironic that the OP asks that when KS is the most biased, preferential treatment site out there). Everybody knows how you feel, and it's obvious how people like ophis feel, opinions were stated over and over, so why not leave it at that. Then walk away.

This next question I ask in seriousness. Is there another site out there (outside of the reptile world) that charges for posting on a forum? I'm curious to study their system to see how it works.

Well, as is obvious by your posting, even here on FC many of the forums are free, some are not. I hang out at a couple others that charge. www.tattoodles.com basic posting is free. Paid membership $30 month $99 a year includes, sending PM's, online magazine, access to user galleries, and downloadable tattoo flash. www.bikeamericaonline.com is $5 month, $35 year to belong to the forums. There are many more, these are the only ones I pay for though.

 

[WebSlave]

As for paid access sites, the one I can recall offhand (and was a member of) was www.starbandusers.com. It was a site for Starband Satellite internet service users and cost $15 per year to even READ any messages on the site. The way the guy running it marketed it was that he said that even one tip you would get from the site would pay many times over that $15 compared to a service call. I agreed with him and paid it happily. And yes, I feel I definitely got my money's worth from it.

There are some sites I visit infrequently, but when I do, I normally need some info from them that I would certainly be willing to pay for if I had to. Heck, I don't know how many times I had to go to WebHostingTalk.com for help with server admin issues and would have paid in a heartbeat to get the help I needed.

Then I was actively into audio equipment a while back and was looking for a subwoofer. The information I gathered about the different units available at a couple of message board sites saved me an incredible amount of time, and likely from making a mistake in choosing a unit that I would not have been happy with, based on the reviews I looked over.

When I was looking for a truck for my wife, I found a service that cost me $25 for a month of being able to punch in VIN numbers and getting extensive histories of the used vehicles we were looking at. That sort of information was worth a LOT, considering some of the vehicles it steered us away from.

Information has always been a valuable commodity. When you NEED to pay for it, you either do it, or do without.

 

[cthulhu77]

Such a low blow. That is sad. Really, I don't understand the motivation of those who stay here, yet continually complain, deride, pout, whine, criticize, or whatever. As some know I stopped hanging out at KS, and I have mentioned in past threads why, but I don't go over there and constantly post about why "I'm right and all the posters are wrong". I don't like the policies over there, so I stay away. No drama, no trying to go over there and hammer my opinions on other KS participants, I just stay away. It just baffles me why people go through so much time and effort to do these things, like even starting this thread (BOI play favorites, how ironic that the OP asks that when KS is the most biased, preferential treatment site out there). Everybody knows how you feel, and it's obvious how people like ophis feel, opinions were stated over and over, so why not leave it at that. Then walk away.

Wow. that is one hell of a lot of right wing rhetoric, isn't it? Gosh...how dare I question anything? I am supposed to just be quiet, and be an obedient little servant?
Don't think so, RB...if I don't like something I see going on, I am going to spout off about it.
greg

 

[DAND]

Greg,

Why did you contribute?

Greg,

You must have missed my question earlier...

 

[dwedeking]

Ah, interesting comment, Dan. Are you really that spiteful over this?

Your correct Rich, that comment was out of line, and I apologize for letting that out. For me personally there are two sides to this debate. The business side and the personal side. On the business side, I felt that the BOI was a great tool to promote a "safer" environment for consumers. My opinion is that this is lost or at the least not nearly as effective as it was, and I find that a shame. No right or wrong that is just my opinion.

It just baffles me why people go through so much time and effort to do these things, like even starting this thread (BOI play favorites, how ironic that the OP asks that when KS is the most biased, preferential treatment site out there).

Because a large number of us liked fauna and the community that it was (and still is to some extent). You ask why I still come around and read. I came into this industry from the outside, keeping reptiles but not having any contacts inside the business. A lot of those contacts were developed at Fauna due to it's previous "business" oriented forums. So the political issues aside between Rich and I on our opinions, it is like walking into Cheers (the old TV show) to shoot the BS with friends. This is seperate from my opinion of what was right or wrong for the BOI.

Originally my posting on this thread was trying to stay neutral and just offer an alternative view point without pointing "right or wrong" fingers at anyone. I apologize for losing that perspective.

Everybody knows how you feel, and it's obvious how people like ophis feel, opinions were stated over and over, so why not leave it at that. Then walk away.

This is the personal side of this debate. Fauna used to be a site that encouraged debate and opposite view points. We used to argue back and forth, with some vigor, and then just shake hands and talk about something we had in common. I don't know if the new attitude of "go with the majority or don't let the door hit you" is the desired attitude of Fauna, but it seems to be out there.

Thanks to the links to pay sites. I'll research them.

 

[shrap]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. And in the words of our late Vice President, Hubert H. Humphrey, "The right to be heard does not include the right to be taken seriously."

Don't listen to the crap, Greg. If that is how you feel then that is how you feel. You have as much right to state how feel as anyone else. Just remember, that by stating your opinion about anything it is going to open the door to others stating theirs. So you need to be as willing to accept that. It is a two way street.

I remember when The Dixie Chicks and a few other celebs were stating their opinion about the war and terrorism. There was a lot of public outcry about their opinions. Then they cried that they were just expressing their opinion and should not be catching the hell that they were. Well the public that was giving them hell was just stating their opinions. Yet the Ditzie Chicks and other celebs need to realize that expressing opinions is a two way street.

I just don't see a major conspiracy here. I do see little clicks here and there on this site, but like I said elsewhere, it is not a large all encompassing click that covers the entire site. Just small groups here and there. And I would not even call them cliques. In some cases they are just like minded people, others it is friends, some business associates, others that are trying to work together to better their profits. So yeah there is some favoritism by small groups here, just like everywhere else in life.

 

[cthulhu77]

Greg,

You must have missed my question earlier...

Nope...just decided it wasn't worthy of a reply. According to your logic, since the guy I voted for did not become president, I should leave the country if I don't like the boss now? Hmmm.
Guess I am not such a good little nazi.
greg

 

[shrap]

Nazi...... was that really necessary? (shakes head)

 

[cthulhu77]

I was more in line thinking of the bit from "stalag 17" , where the allied prisoners spoof the guards...I should have been clearer in my post as to alluding to the ridiculousness of complete belief...sorry about that !
greg

 

[Ophis]

Ah, interesting comment, Dan. Are you really that spiteful over this? So was the bet placed with your hopes that this site won't be here in two years? Are you really that upset that you would wish that? You act like I have taken something away from you in all this. What exactly was it that you expected from "the money mistakenly donated" that has now been taken away from you? It doesn't really sound much like "donations" at all to me, but instead investments with a future return you were expecting. The MILLIONS of impressions your banner ads got over the years count for nothing, I guess. Pity.....

Pretty hard line, isn't it Dan to tell a website owner to either run it your way or you hope it folds up and dies, now isn't it? Man, you sure had me fooled. You have to be one of the last people on earth I would expect that kind of attitude out of. But if there is one thing I have learned from running this site, it is that people will constantly surprise me.

But here's a tough one: What the heck are you doing here then? With that sort of attitude, I would expect this would be the last place on earth you would want to be. So tell me, just why are you still here then? What are you able to still get out of this site to make it worth your time and effort to be here? Obviously there is still something here you want.

Oh well. This does sadden me. I'm really sorry you feel that way, Dan. I think I have fully explained all my reasons about why this had to take place this way, as a business decision, as a practical solution to one of the most vexing problems on the BOI, and as a personal solution to what I need to get out of this site to make it worthwhile to ME to continue doing this sort of thing. I am sorry that none of those reasons were apparently good enough to meet the criteria of what you need to get back out of this site for your "donations".

But honestly, I seriously thought that people honestly interested in supporting THIS site would work to help it to survive, instead of pulling out all financial support at a time when it was much needed. Silly me. Fortunately it was a VERY rare event (matter of fact, Dan, I do believe YOU were the only one who did that), so it really didn't make any practical lasting effect except to just hurt my feelings.

Darn, this did turn out to be a rather instructive thread after all. Thanks Ophis!

Of course it did Rich! In spite of the bashng crew trying to make me go away.

 

[DAND]

Nope...just decided it wasn't worthy of a reply. According to your logic, since the guy I voted for did not become president, I should leave the country if I don't like the boss now? Hmmm.
Guess I am not such a good little nazi.
greg

Where the hell did that come from? I asked you a valid question which I based on a comment you made prior to me asking it the first time.

 

[cthulhu77]

and I think that I gave you a valid reply.

Because I may not agree with you all the time, does not make me in any way, shape, or form "against" you and your views...hell, I disagree with Wes frequently, but respect his right to have his own terms, etc...and you also.
I took the question as being: "if you don't like it, why are you here"...which hit me as "shut up and play along, or go away"...
Sorry I am not a good little Marxist (is that better, shrap?)

greg

 

[Ophis]

Sorry I am not a good little Marxist (is that better, Shrap?)

Thats better Greg....That "Right Wing" thing was a little bit off the hook. I wouldn't want us to have to start flinging rhetoric at each other.

 

[cthulhu77]

Thats better Greg....That "Right Wing" thing was a little bit off the hook. I wouldn't want us to have to start flinging rhetoric at each other.

LOL...yeah, that would be terrible !

(stalag 17 was on the tele this morning...hence the reference...for those of you who haven't seen it, I heavily recommend it)

greg-anarchy-in-the-us

 

[Ophis]

Darn, this did turn out to be a rather instructive thread after all. Thanks Ophis!

Wait a second Rich! you know, It would be more instructive if you would address the issue of why gaining revenue through advertising would not work for this site. Please don't tell me that you covered this already and that I should go back through threads and find it. You should be able to sum it up in a paragraph at the modt.

 

[Wilomn]

You know, THIS thread has some very intelligent people posting on it and were it not for the fact that we are all known ONLY virtually, virtually, I suspect this would not have the dark undertones that keep welling up from the deeps.

There is no bad guy here. There are a few expressing opinions that are not the same.

Guys, and gals, chill a bit.

Rich has taken a bunch of crap from some lousy people. He has taken some critisism from some good people. The same holds true for Greg and Dan and even Opie/aphid/atlas or whatever the heck his name is.

I would REALLY like to see this be the kind of group where we could gang up on eachother in the "arm punching" manner and not in the "ripping out of throats" manner. A good debate with an intelligent person on the other side is good. Why be mean?

Greg's opinion is no less valuable because he disagrees than is Dan's or mine. None of us are on the exact same line of the exact same page on this issue BUT we are all good guys. Let's not forget that.

Were this Cheers it would be Rich's turn to buy a round and when it came time for the rest of us to buy a round I WANT to think that no one would have any problem with it.

We're not dealing with guys like scumito tornambe or lil' petey perez here.

I'm all for ripping out throats when the occasion merits such actions but I don't think this is one and it is coming dangerously close, HAS come dangerously close a few times already.

Like Dan said, we can disagree and NOT be enemies, not word for word of course but that was the gist of it I think.

Try to picture the guy you're WRITING to as if he, or she, were SITTING on the barstool next to you and NOT as if he, or she, were menacing you with said stool.

AND DON'T PUT ME IN THE POSITION OF PEACEMAKER. WHAT is WRONG with you people? Doing such a thing to a guy like me......

 

[Wilomn]

Wait a second Rich! you know, It would be more instructive if you would address the issue of why gaining revenue through advertising would not work for this site. Please don't tell me that you covered this already and that I should go back through threads and find it. You should be able to sum it up in a paragraph at the modt.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

It has been covered. In detail.

Were it me you were making this request of, one which were I Rich and had already answered many times, I too would simply say it's there. If you want to know so badly and don't recall/remember from when I was discussing it so many times, find it yourself; I'm tired of going over it.

Of course I'm not Rich and I haven't gone over it nearly as much as he has and while I can see why you would want to know I can also see why he has simply pointed out where it is.

And of course, Opie,aphid,atlas or whatever the heck your name is, the manner in which you ask is sooooooo very endearing.

Oh well, it'll be an interesting Sunday.