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In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
Bad business practices
- Thread starter veronica
- Start date
Stardust
human
Ok so she apoligized PUBLICLY for that, and everyone on this forum can read it. What about her legitimate claims, gecko half dead, not properly identifying what was in the box being shipped, the sellers pushiness? Does that get swept under the bed?
Rozann Lamont
Rozann Lamont
Stardust
human
I don't think you are being rude at all.
From my standpoint or as I see it, she has some kind of complaint, if she was fully happy she would not have posted on here at all. Granted, the phone thing seems a little odd to me but I still think there was something there, and she posted her apoligies after numerous calls at all hours of the night. That to me could be construed as intimidating among other things. She has posted on this forum before so I just find it hard to believe that this transaction went smoothly and she was happy with what she received hence the start of this thread.
This is just my opinion of course.
Rozann Lamont
From my standpoint or as I see it, she has some kind of complaint, if she was fully happy she would not have posted on here at all. Granted, the phone thing seems a little odd to me but I still think there was something there, and she posted her apoligies after numerous calls at all hours of the night. That to me could be construed as intimidating among other things. She has posted on this forum before so I just find it hard to believe that this transaction went smoothly and she was happy with what she received hence the start of this thread.
This is just my opinion of course.
Rozann Lamont
Stardust
human
One other thing, and I need to read thru it again, but from my memory this Alison person did not address the other problems that were called to this thread only about the drug thing, also the main guy has not addressed this forum as well.
Sometimes, in my opinion, the underlaying problem can be bogged down in other things and those point avoided.
Sometimes, in my opinion, the underlaying problem can be bogged down in other things and those point avoided.
What i would do if i were Jon
If i were Jon, and of course i am not, i would not address this thread either.I would go directly to my lawyer. If she lied about him being under investigation, and if that hurt his buisness in anyway, i would feel like i deserved some compinsation. The herp buisness is filled with people like veronica, out to put someone down. Even if he "forgot" to call, you had to at least know what day they were being shipped. You also have to understand that you are shipping cold-blooded animals during what season?............................... WINTER. Even with heat packs(which last about 4 hours), that animal will still be cold. Even your not prepared to rehabilitate a cold animal wait till &*^%ing Summer.
I am just glad that i am educated and have experience and have never had to deal with this crap. I feel sorry for you Jon.
People.....Don't have animals shipped to you in the winter via ground carriers if you aren't prepared to handle what might be in the box, i.e. an animal that is cold and in bad shape.
USE DELTA................SPEND THE EXTRA 50 BUCKS(which is by the way, besides airborne, the only TRULY legal way to ship live reptiles.) Sorry to the more intelligent people that had to read stuff they already knew.
If i were Jon, and of course i am not, i would not address this thread either.I would go directly to my lawyer. If she lied about him being under investigation, and if that hurt his buisness in anyway, i would feel like i deserved some compinsation. The herp buisness is filled with people like veronica, out to put someone down. Even if he "forgot" to call, you had to at least know what day they were being shipped. You also have to understand that you are shipping cold-blooded animals during what season?............................... WINTER. Even with heat packs(which last about 4 hours), that animal will still be cold. Even your not prepared to rehabilitate a cold animal wait till &*^%ing Summer.
I am just glad that i am educated and have experience and have never had to deal with this crap. I feel sorry for you Jon.
People.....Don't have animals shipped to you in the winter via ground carriers if you aren't prepared to handle what might be in the box, i.e. an animal that is cold and in bad shape.
USE DELTA................SPEND THE EXTRA 50 BUCKS(which is by the way, besides airborne, the only TRULY legal way to ship live reptiles.) Sorry to the more intelligent people that had to read stuff they already knew.
Stardust
human
Well Mr. Elwood it is nice to have someone so educated on this forum with such infinate wisdom on this particular thread. I would still like to hear from Jon himself. And are you saying that the seller should not be responsible enough to let the buyer know in advance which would be the best way to ship animals in the winter?
Rozann Lamont
Rozann Lamont
Thomas,
Maybe it was a "typo", but there are 40h heat packs in the market which, combined with heavily styro-insulated cardboard boxes make shipping during the winter reasonably safe.
Best regards.
Pennebaker
New member
Well, then "Venom"--who are you? You are supposed to put your full name at the end of posts. As I can see you are new, with only 5 posts (all on this thread???), so I thought I'd let you know.
As for heat packs "only lasting 4 hours"--well, only if you are buying foot warmers at walmart, yes. There are specially made heat packs that last 30-40-48 hours that you can purchase and that is what any reputable dealer uses to ship reptiles. I have even tested the 30 hour ones that if kept in insulation (foam lining), even with airholes, last over 48 hours.
I too wonder why Veronica is getting harassed so much. I think she had some real complaints and questions and came here as a heads up. And the shipper never came here to give his story anyways. We just get to hear about his attitude and what I believe were threatening phone calls--good point stardust with the photo being removed. Sounds like Rob says that he had a similar experience in the past--and I do trust Rob.
And as for Jon going to his lawyer first--you have to be kidding me--that is exactly what people should not do with this forum--hasnt that been proven in the past? The best thing to do would be to come on here and give an honest explanation and I'm sure reasonable people could come to a good solution and no one looks to be the bad guy. Veronica already apologized on here--I'm sure she is not that difficult to work with!
To Veronica: I'm sorry that you probably feel attacked and intimidated.
This is why so many people are nervous about posting here.
Dana
As for heat packs "only lasting 4 hours"--well, only if you are buying foot warmers at walmart, yes. There are specially made heat packs that last 30-40-48 hours that you can purchase and that is what any reputable dealer uses to ship reptiles. I have even tested the 30 hour ones that if kept in insulation (foam lining), even with airholes, last over 48 hours.
I too wonder why Veronica is getting harassed so much. I think she had some real complaints and questions and came here as a heads up. And the shipper never came here to give his story anyways. We just get to hear about his attitude and what I believe were threatening phone calls--good point stardust with the photo being removed. Sounds like Rob says that he had a similar experience in the past--and I do trust Rob.
And as for Jon going to his lawyer first--you have to be kidding me--that is exactly what people should not do with this forum--hasnt that been proven in the past? The best thing to do would be to come on here and give an honest explanation and I'm sure reasonable people could come to a good solution and no one looks to be the bad guy. Veronica already apologized on here--I'm sure she is not that difficult to work with!
To Veronica: I'm sorry that you probably feel attacked and intimidated.
This is why so many people are nervous about posting here.
Dana
Darin Chappell
Senior Hillbilly Member
- Joined
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- 1,838
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- Age
- 60
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- Rogersville, MO (Ozark Mts.)
Well Mr. Elwood,
Two things. First, there are definitely heat packs that can, and do, last longer than four hours. Someone with your great experience surely knows that this is the case. Perhaps you had another number in mind and simply misstated yourself? Second, there are other "legal" ways to ship snakes and other reptiles. FedEx and UPS are both "legal" ways to ship, but it is a violation of their company rules to use them in this manner. It is a company rules violation, but not a violation of the law, hence it is "legal." Again, I can only assume that this was some sort of a mistaken typing incident on your part, for I am certain that someone with as much education, experience, and intelligence as you profess to have would never make statements as if they were truly valid.
I was really willing to let this thread die the death. The original poster had appologized (though it may indeed be too little too late), and the Next World Exotics owner will either find it worth his while to sue or he will not. There is nothing else to be hashed out in this thread, as I see it.
However, I think it great fun to see someone pontificate about how uneducated others are and then, in the same paragraph, make statements of fact that are proveably false! Just wanted to pause a moment to point out the irony of one calling everyone else uneducated and ignorant while saying uneducated and ignorant things!
:laugh:
Two things. First, there are definitely heat packs that can, and do, last longer than four hours. Someone with your great experience surely knows that this is the case. Perhaps you had another number in mind and simply misstated yourself? Second, there are other "legal" ways to ship snakes and other reptiles. FedEx and UPS are both "legal" ways to ship, but it is a violation of their company rules to use them in this manner. It is a company rules violation, but not a violation of the law, hence it is "legal." Again, I can only assume that this was some sort of a mistaken typing incident on your part, for I am certain that someone with as much education, experience, and intelligence as you profess to have would never make statements as if they were truly valid.
I was really willing to let this thread die the death. The original poster had appologized (though it may indeed be too little too late), and the Next World Exotics owner will either find it worth his while to sue or he will not. There is nothing else to be hashed out in this thread, as I see it.
However, I think it great fun to see someone pontificate about how uneducated others are and then, in the same paragraph, make statements of fact that are proveably false! Just wanted to pause a moment to point out the irony of one calling everyone else uneducated and ignorant while saying uneducated and ignorant things!
:laugh:
Ken Harbart
New member
Thomas, I beliieve Steve's "educated" reply was in response to the outlandish staement that he quoted from your reply. If one represents gross misninformation as fact, it's a reasonable expectation that one would be taken to task for it.
Libel is not a felony. It's not even a misdemeanor. Heck, it can't even be classified as a criminal act. It is merely a civil tort.
That being said, there actually exists no legal ground to seek damages in this matter, unless it can be proven by a preponderence of evidence that Veronica's intent was malicious and not inadvertent. As it stands, the only damages that would be compensable are actual damages, which I highly doubt have been done (ie, it must be proven that business was lost due to the accusation of investigation).
The fact that the statements regarding the FBI, IRS, etc, were publicly retracted is a sound legal defense.
Has Jon been libeled? Most definitely.
Does he have grounds to seek damages? Not really.
Now then, it should not be forgotten, as others have posted, that there were other issues in Veronica's post that should be addressed. While she has damaged her own credibility, those issues should be looked at separately from the "investigation" fallacy.
Libel is not a felony. It's not even a misdemeanor. Heck, it can't even be classified as a criminal act. It is merely a civil tort.
That being said, there actually exists no legal ground to seek damages in this matter, unless it can be proven by a preponderence of evidence that Veronica's intent was malicious and not inadvertent. As it stands, the only damages that would be compensable are actual damages, which I highly doubt have been done (ie, it must be proven that business was lost due to the accusation of investigation).
The fact that the statements regarding the FBI, IRS, etc, were publicly retracted is a sound legal defense.
Has Jon been libeled? Most definitely.
Does he have grounds to seek damages? Not really.
Now then, it should not be forgotten, as others have posted, that there were other issues in Veronica's post that should be addressed. While she has damaged her own credibility, those issues should be looked at separately from the "investigation" fallacy.
ok
If Jon would have informed her of the best way to ship, and this lady thinks two fat-tails is alot of money, and started whining about having to pick them up at the airborne office. DO YOU REALLY THINK SHE WOULD HAVE PAYED 71 DOLLARS FOR DELTA DASH PLUS A BOX CHARGE, AND PICKED THEM UP AT HER LOCAL AIRPORT. PROBABLY NOT. I always tell everyone that buys non-venomous from me that Delta is far-and-away the best way to ship. BUT IT IS THIER CHOICE. Not everyone wants to pay for delta, so i send them airborne. However, I will NEVER be held responsible, nor do i give a live arrival gaurantee if i ship through airborne during the winter months.FURTHERMORE, not all herp dealers have accounts with delta, it takes work, and personal inspections of your facilites by delta officials. Sarcasim is always appreciated Rozann, but try to come up with something a little better next time. And in response to your earlier post, HER COMPLAINT WAS THAT THEY SHOWED UP HALF DEAD, BUT IT IS MY UNERSTANDING THAT THEY ARE PERFECTLY HEALTHY NOW. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ABOUT. THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T CALL, UM SORRY SHOOT HIM, THE FACT THAT SHE HAD TO GO PICK THEM UP AT THE AIRBORNE OFFICE. SHE PROBABLY WASN"T THERE TO RECIVE THEM. SO WHAT IF HE WAS PUSHY, YOU EVER BOUGHT A USED CAR???????????
HE IS A SALESMAN. AND IF SOME LADY POSTED FALSE THINGS ABOUT ME THAT COULD POSSIBLY HURT MY BUISNESS< YOU BETTER BELIEVE I WOULD BE CALLING HER AS% WHENEVER I FOUND OUT ABOUT IT, 12pm or 3:30 am. No i take that back, i would have my lawyer call.
If Jon would have informed her of the best way to ship, and this lady thinks two fat-tails is alot of money, and started whining about having to pick them up at the airborne office. DO YOU REALLY THINK SHE WOULD HAVE PAYED 71 DOLLARS FOR DELTA DASH PLUS A BOX CHARGE, AND PICKED THEM UP AT HER LOCAL AIRPORT. PROBABLY NOT. I always tell everyone that buys non-venomous from me that Delta is far-and-away the best way to ship. BUT IT IS THIER CHOICE. Not everyone wants to pay for delta, so i send them airborne. However, I will NEVER be held responsible, nor do i give a live arrival gaurantee if i ship through airborne during the winter months.FURTHERMORE, not all herp dealers have accounts with delta, it takes work, and personal inspections of your facilites by delta officials. Sarcasim is always appreciated Rozann, but try to come up with something a little better next time. And in response to your earlier post, HER COMPLAINT WAS THAT THEY SHOWED UP HALF DEAD, BUT IT IS MY UNERSTANDING THAT THEY ARE PERFECTLY HEALTHY NOW. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ABOUT. THE FACT THAT HE DIDN'T CALL, UM SORRY SHOOT HIM, THE FACT THAT SHE HAD TO GO PICK THEM UP AT THE AIRBORNE OFFICE. SHE PROBABLY WASN"T THERE TO RECIVE THEM. SO WHAT IF HE WAS PUSHY, YOU EVER BOUGHT A USED CAR???????????
HE IS A SALESMAN. AND IF SOME LADY POSTED FALSE THINGS ABOUT ME THAT COULD POSSIBLY HURT MY BUISNESS< YOU BETTER BELIEVE I WOULD BE CALLING HER AS% WHENEVER I FOUND OUT ABOUT IT, 12pm or 3:30 am. No i take that back, i would have my lawyer call.
l
I think it great fun. This is the first day that i have visited this site. Mainly cause this venomous forum sucks. I even had doubts about registering, and now i see why. I think there is one major problem with this forum. 99 percent of the time, its one persons word against another. And everyone seems to be trying to get a rise out of someone else. It is actually kind of childish, i have felt a noticeable drop in my i.q. in the last 4 hours. I am sure someone will have a comment about that last statement. How many law suit threads have you "regulars"lol lol lol, seen in the past year? Good to see there are still plenty of good sites,like kingsnake, that don't allow this sort of nonsense. Keep crusin' looking for a word fight, guys.
I think it great fun. This is the first day that i have visited this site. Mainly cause this venomous forum sucks. I even had doubts about registering, and now i see why. I think there is one major problem with this forum. 99 percent of the time, its one persons word against another. And everyone seems to be trying to get a rise out of someone else. It is actually kind of childish, i have felt a noticeable drop in my i.q. in the last 4 hours. I am sure someone will have a comment about that last statement. How many law suit threads have you "regulars"lol lol lol, seen in the past year? Good to see there are still plenty of good sites,like kingsnake, that don't allow this sort of nonsense. Keep crusin' looking for a word fight, guys.
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Seamus Haley
Big Game Hunter
Might I suggest the number 1-800-ABC-DEFG as the first call you make?
The fine folks over at Hooked on Phonics could do wonders for your ability to read and write, which you would need before you develop any credibility.
Am I the only one frightened by the fact that an illiterate claims to be keeping hots? When this fool gets himself bitten and I lose MY animals because of it, I'm not going to be a happy individual.
Stardust
human
I rather like my sarcasism thank you very much. I think I will keep it around for awhile.
Now back to the issue.
You say it is your understanding that the geckos are healthy now. Hmmmmm Where did you get this from? Is the same "Jon" in question that I have already gotten two emails from?
Or (which I doubt) is it from Veronica whom I have received private messages from? All of this in the matter of say the last hour or so.
I have told Veronica not to be afraid to come on here and post pics which I think she will (hopefully) so she can at least somewhat redeem herself.
I was pondering "Jon's" email and wondering if maybe this was just gross misunderstanding on both parts, then I read your post again, Venom, so now I guess I am really left with something to ponder again. Hmmmm
Rozann Lamont
Rozann Lamont
Now back to the issue.
You say it is your understanding that the geckos are healthy now. Hmmmmm Where did you get this from? Is the same "Jon" in question that I have already gotten two emails from?
Or (which I doubt) is it from Veronica whom I have received private messages from? All of this in the matter of say the last hour or so.
I have told Veronica not to be afraid to come on here and post pics which I think she will (hopefully) so she can at least somewhat redeem herself.
I was pondering "Jon's" email and wondering if maybe this was just gross misunderstanding on both parts, then I read your post again, Venom, so now I guess I am really left with something to ponder again. Hmmmm
Rozann Lamont
Rozann Lamont
dwedeking
Member
Veronica's first post should have been that they were poorly packed and no notification of sending the animals. These are a legitimate gripe and definitely a reason to consider not doing business with someone... if these claims are true. In my opinion Veronica's creditability took a serious blow bringing heresay and inuendo into the argument. If someone ships poorly and poor communication that is foul not on the scale of selling illegal drugs and laundering money as was the implication of the first post.
I think Jon should come on here and address these two issues in particular. Legally, I believe, Ken is correct in that there is little recourse about the unproven drug charges unless you can prove specific damages.
I think Jon should come on here and address these two issues in particular. Legally, I believe, Ken is correct in that there is little recourse about the unproven drug charges unless you can prove specific damages.
NEWReptiles
New member
Venom
1. If this site sucks, then leave ( I love it )
2. Learn to read a sites TOS and put your name on every post before signing up and talking nonsense about your 4 hour heatpacks and lawyers. Tell your lawyer I called you an idiot.
I would never consider dealing with you, as I try to shy away from people with no common sense. If my post hurts your non-existant business, are you gonna sue me?
To everyone else that reads this thread, you will find a pic of Mr. Elwood that I found...........
1. If this site sucks, then leave ( I love it )
2. Learn to read a sites TOS and put your name on every post before signing up and talking nonsense about your 4 hour heatpacks and lawyers. Tell your lawyer I called you an idiot.
I would never consider dealing with you, as I try to shy away from people with no common sense. If my post hurts your non-existant business, are you gonna sue me?
To everyone else that reads this thread, you will find a pic of Mr. Elwood that I found...........
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Darin Chappell
Senior Hillbilly Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2002
- Messages
- 1,838
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 60
- Location
- Rogersville, MO (Ozark Mts.)
"When this fool gets himself bitten and I lose MY animals because of it, I'm not going to be a happy individual."
Take solace in the fact that this guy will likely not have had enough brain power to have sought medical aid before the neurotoxins kicked in, Seamus!
Mr. Elwood,
You didn't answer either of the two points I brought to your attention, Sir. Is it because you consider them beneath you in some way? Do you not have actual answers based upon your VAST education, intelligence, and experience? Or has your I.Q. dropped sufficiently so as to render you incapable?
I must say that it really tickles me to see someone who has been on the BOI exactly one (1) day tell us all about how useless this site is to its users. [Heheheh] Maybe Mr. Elwood should peruse the various multi-page threads of other topics that have helped who knows how many people? Or, he could just disappear on the forums of KS. Either is acceptable to me.
Take solace in the fact that this guy will likely not have had enough brain power to have sought medical aid before the neurotoxins kicked in, Seamus!
Mr. Elwood,
You didn't answer either of the two points I brought to your attention, Sir. Is it because you consider them beneath you in some way? Do you not have actual answers based upon your VAST education, intelligence, and experience? Or has your I.Q. dropped sufficiently so as to render you incapable?
I must say that it really tickles me to see someone who has been on the BOI exactly one (1) day tell us all about how useless this site is to its users. [Heheheh] Maybe Mr. Elwood should peruse the various multi-page threads of other topics that have helped who knows how many people? Or, he could just disappear on the forums of KS. Either is acceptable to me.
Hues1
New member
POST YOUR FULL NAME WITH EVERY REPLY>>>PART OF THE RULES OF THE BOI
Because I do not feel like re-reading all of your post in order to gather your name, Mr. Elwood, Cobras111, Venom, Jon, Gumby, the teletubbie with a purse or whoever you are...you are a complete a$$.
I typically dont post in threads where people are bickering back and forth and usually dont read all of the posts in those threads, but you just come off as a person with no clue whatsoever.
From your very first post to your latest, you've posted absolutely nothing that even remotely sounds like something a intelligent and intellectual person would be able to comprehend.
It seems to me that you should've never joined this forum to begin with. And if your only reasoning for joining this forum was to be disruptive...then I think WEBSLAVE should ban you.
On the lighter side of things, your posts do bring some what of a smile to my face knowing that there's actually someone in this world who can be so dumb but yet trying to be so smart. There for ,maybe the WEBSLAVE should keep you around to amuse us all.
Anyways, whichever you are...smart or dumb, unless you actually have something relevant to post , please refrain from making yourself looker even worse and contribute something that would actually either be of relevance or helpful.
I by no means am the smartest person here or the most experienced, but I'm smart enough to know when I can contribute and when I cant !
Sorry all, this had nothing to do with the thread at hand but I just had to get it out.
Just my 2 cents
Because I do not feel like re-reading all of your post in order to gather your name, Mr. Elwood, Cobras111, Venom, Jon, Gumby, the teletubbie with a purse or whoever you are...you are a complete a$$.
I typically dont post in threads where people are bickering back and forth and usually dont read all of the posts in those threads, but you just come off as a person with no clue whatsoever.
From your very first post to your latest, you've posted absolutely nothing that even remotely sounds like something a intelligent and intellectual person would be able to comprehend.
It seems to me that you should've never joined this forum to begin with. And if your only reasoning for joining this forum was to be disruptive...then I think WEBSLAVE should ban you.
On the lighter side of things, your posts do bring some what of a smile to my face knowing that there's actually someone in this world who can be so dumb but yet trying to be so smart. There for ,maybe the WEBSLAVE should keep you around to amuse us all.
Anyways, whichever you are...smart or dumb, unless you actually have something relevant to post , please refrain from making yourself looker even worse and contribute something that would actually either be of relevance or helpful.
I by no means am the smartest person here or the most experienced, but I'm smart enough to know when I can contribute and when I cant !
Sorry all, this had nothing to do with the thread at hand but I just had to get it out.
Just my 2 cents