Bad Guy BEWARE! Ken, the owner of Exotic Pets LLC is not a reputable dealer!

[Brandon Roesler]

well said Ace.

 

[SirenSanJose]

I have never purchased from Ken, because he never had what I wanted at the same time I had the money for what I wanted. But I've talked to him on the phone a couple of times, called him up with questions about what I was in the market for and when he might have it. Even though I did not end up making a purchase, he was never anything but polite, took the time to answer my questions, and I'd happily buy from Ken when my finances and his inventory better align.

And after you learned to probe from your vet, what was the result, btw? Did they, in fact, end up being a male/female pair? So you did get what you paid for?

I don't see why Ken should eat the vet fee because *you* refused to trust *him* that he did, in fact, send you what you ordered. (Also, if we're talking about juvenile snakes, why were they probed, not popped, in the first place? It's easy, quick, and much safer for young snakes than probes.)

I've ordered snakes, I've ordered geckos, I've ordered all kinds of stuff. I've sold snakes and geckos. Depending on the animals, the package size and weight, and the animal size, I've sent animals one per cup or bag, animals two or more per cup and bag. I've received animals one per cup or bag, and multiples per cup or bag. There is no real "industry standard". 17 breeders out of thousands and thousands does not a majority make.

 

[KathyLove]

Although this has already been pointed out, I haven't seen the O.P. refute the logic of this point. That is, if you trust a dealer enough to take his word that the animals are correctly sexed, and don't plan to check for yourself until they are mature, then what is the difference which is the male and which is the female? You will be caring for them in the same way. OTOH, if you don't trust the dealer to sex them properly, then you or somebody you trust will have to check them whether they are separately labeled or not. So, although I always ship them in separate deli cups, I don't see what the actual difference is to you.

For myself, I NEVER buy a snake without checking it myself if gender is important to me. I don't care if it is the most experienced and best known breeder in the world - or my best friend. I have sexed zillions (it seems!) of baby snakes, and I make an occasional mistake. That is why I always check a 2nd time, either when I ship, or when I move the baby to a bigger cage. If your disability will not allow you to sex them yourself, you are going to have to find a trusted friend that you believe can accurately sex them for you. If you have other snakes in your collection that have not been re-sexed since you bought them, I would highly suggest doing it NOW, rather than waiting until they are mature and finding out that you suddenly need an adult female to replace a pair of males that you spent several years raising up.

As to the mites, that is not good. I can tell you that it is possible that a snake is shipped with just a couple of mites that go unnoticed, and that a very short time later there is a population explosion, and they are all over the place. It happened to me back in the early '90s. That still doesn't make it ok to ship with mites, but it explains how it can happen, especially in a shop that has a constant influx of new animals from various sources. If it is proven, then IMO, the shipper should offer SOMETHING to offset the cost and inconvenience of treating them. Good thing you quarantined them!

 

[TakinANapster]

Joe,

What you paid for was a "sexed" pair. Just a quick education but this means that you get a group of 1 male and 1 female or 1.1.

It's easy to intermingle the terms but that's what you bought with a sexed pair.
Have you already had them probed by the vet? If not, send me pics to my email [email protected] and I will see if I can give you an educated guess.... You will need the pics from the underside vent to tip of tail.

Thank you Snakemami VERY MUCH for the offer!!!
You are very kind!!!
I have, however, already had them probed.

I may send you pics anyway, for a 2nd opinion. The snakes were so much different in size, that the probing was weird. I mean, the probe went in about the same on both snakes....but one snake is about twice as long as the other too.

 

[TakinANapster]

I truly believe that everyone is entitled to post a thread about a transaction with a buyer or seller and if the believe the person they delt with is a bad guy, they reserve the right to post a bad guy thread wout ppl jumping down their throat. I for one learned that should I decide to do business with Ken, I must be very specific in how I want my animals shipped and have a bottle of p.a.m ready bc if Ken shipped animals with mites and didn't know they had mites, chances are a goo portion of his collection have mites.. IF they did come w mites bc I still have seen no proof of the mites.
I just see a very distinct pattern of behaivor in the BOI and it really has alot of bullying and immature badgering and prodding. I am not taking sides, but the poster did not get frustrated and arrogant until ppl started telling him he never should have posted this bc it's not "bad guy" worthy and that he should be able to probe and that he's on their "pntbfost" list and etc.. Let's try to take a step back from the insults and remember why the BOI is here - not to insult ppl or judge them, but to read about ppls experiences and to use the knowledge when entering into future transactions. I really think the side banter about whether this is a valid bad guy topic or whether certain ppl would buy or sell to other certain ppl is childish and ultimately is tarnishing the whole meaning and purpose of the BOI. I know I recently was ripped off very badly, but after reading thru many BOI threads, I chose not to start one bc of a pattern of what the threads turn in to .. And if I were to post my experience I wouldn't want a bunch of ppl standing up for the other person and demanding things that can't be produced or proven.. In this thread numerous ppl posted they had excellent transactions w Ken and he was a great breeder - well that's all well and good but start a good guy thread for Ken then - don't take away from this threads importance by voicing your experience on someone elses thread. This is how I feel and I hope that in the future the BOI can become a place where both sides can voice their story, and ppl can read and base their decisions to or not to deal with those ppl on their own privately and not in a vicious back and forth with the original poster.

DITTO - Thank you!

 

[TakinANapster]

Ken may have shipped the snakes in the same container to lower the buyer's shipping costs. Since shipping rates are primarily based on package size rather than weight, a smaller package can mean savings. That IS good customer service in my book.

The snakes came in a box large enough to hold 4 of the cups that were holding the snakes. This was Kens' 1st excuse, and a baddddd one.

 

[Ken Foose]

Hi. Oh boy, where to start? I guess we should start with the facts. I sent this gentleman a sexed pair of albino Rosy Boas. I sexed them myself. I packed them myself. I cupped them together. He received them in perfect condition. And then he asked me which was which. Oops. I had no clue he would not be able to sex them. If he'd asked, I would have shipped them in separate containers. I was just trying to save him some money on shipping by using the smallest box possible and still ensure the safe transport of the snakes. He asked me which one was which. I told him I honestly could not remember. He has not posted but one or two of the about 15 emails we have had going back and forth. I told him in one email, I could have lied to you and taken a guess, but that if I was wrong it would have just wasted a lot of his time raising up the wrong snakes, as he said he needed the male for other breeding projects besides breeding the pair. I suggested that he have a friend help him out. I'm on Kim's computer at home here now, and don't have access to the emails, but I can have them all in the morning. I normally don't save any emails, but after the first couple I received from him, I thought "oh boy, I better save these". I will state this though, and I don't do it lightly. He is a lier. Plain and simple. I have been nothing but polite and understanding to his situation, which my emails (that I don't have now) will show. I made many suggestions to him on how to resolve this in his favor. But mostly, here on the BOI, is the first time that mites have ever been mentioned. I have every email but the very first ones saved, and he has never mentioned mites to me. He is a lier. He says we talked about mites, and basically I told him tough luck. This is a lie. I challenge him to prove otherwise. Also, he says that he took the snakes to the vet. Had them probed I assume. And then says the vet told him how to look for mites, and insinuated that he went home and discovered them. Which was it? Did he find the mites, or did his expensive vet? My last email to him was late Saturday afternoon. I personal doubt that he took it to a vet at all on Saturday. I could be wrong, but that's what I suspect. In one of my last emails to him, I asked if he had a mental problem. I was getting a bit flustered by then, and saw that I was beating my head against a wall. It was not a nice thing to ask, but hey, I was getting a little flustered by then. I can supply that email to. All in all, I think I acted in a very profesional manner to him, as I try to do with all potential, current, and past customer.

Mites: there is no excuse. If I sent him snakes with mites, that is all on me. If he had said that they had mites to me, I would have made it right. Do the snakes I sent him have mites? I don't know. I did not notice any when I packed them. Could I have missed them? Sure, it's possible. If he'd told me this, I would have had him send them back if that's what he wanted to do, and I would have verified it. If they did, I would have refunded all his money, shipping and all. That's the way I operate. Hell, even if he just told me that over the phone or in an email, I would have more then likely offered to credit some of his money back for the hassle of getting rid of them. I have never lied to a customer, and I'm not about to start now. Mistakes, I make plenty. Out and out fraud, never. Just for the record, I will not take the snakes back in any way, shape or form now. Unless they are mis-sexed. I gave him the option days ago, and that door is now closed. He told me in one of his emails that he was going to tell everyone in every forum what an horrible man I am, unless I paid the $40 to have the snakes sexed. I told him that was blackmail, and no, I would not pay. I even told him to do what you feel you have to do. In one of his first emails (I doubt I have it saved) he asked me to discount the snakes. I said I can't. He then asked me to pay the shipping. I told him I can't pay his shipping for him. Later, he asked me to pay the vet bill. I said no. He asked me to refund him in full including shipping if he sent them back. I said no. I would only refund the money on he snakes. If this makes me a bad guy, so be it.

Anyway, that's all I have. I have all the emails, if anyone is interested. Or he can post them, since I assume he also saved them all. I doubt he will post them all though, since he's already lied on this thread, and I would not put it past him to cloud the issue more. To you sir, show me one email, to or from me that has the word mites in it. Just one. And, after you ordered and paid for the snakes, we spoke only one time on the phone. You all will have to trust me when I say that mites were never mentioned then either. As I told Kim and Vegas Billy as this was all going down, I should have just lied and dealt with the fall out a few years down the road. But that would have sucked. I would not want someone to do that to me. But then again, I verify the sexes of all the snakes I receive.

Ken

Oh, and for people on a budget. If you go to Popeyes Chicken on Tuesday, you can get two pieces of chicken for buck. Having very little time to cook or be cooked for, I buy 20 pieces every Tuesday. That comes to $10.70 with tax. It lasts me many days. In fact I still have a few pieces left in the fridge now. Sure, it gets tiring, but I can eat 3 meals a day for at least 5 days and it only costs me 10 bucks. $40 for food every week seems a bit extravagant if you ask me. That's what I call living large.

 

[TakinANapster]

Although this has already been pointed out, I haven't seen the O.P. refute the logic of this point. That is, if you trust a dealer enough to take his word that the animals are correctly sexed, and don't plan to check for yourself until they are mature, then what is the difference which is the male and which is the female? You will be caring for them in the same way. OTOH, if you don't trust the dealer to sex them properly, then you or somebody you trust will have to check them whether they are separately labeled or not. So, although I always ship them in separate deli cups, I don't see what the actual difference is to you.

For myself, I NEVER buy a snake without checking it myself if gender is important to me. I don't care if it is the most experienced and best known breeder in the world - or my best friend. I have sexed zillions (it seems!) of baby snakes, and I make an occasional mistake. That is why I always check a 2nd time, either when I ship, or when I move the baby to a bigger cage. If your disability will not allow you to sex them yourself, you are going to have to find a trusted friend that you believe can accurately sex them for you. If you have other snakes in your collection that have not been re-sexed since you bought them, I would highly suggest doing it NOW, rather than waiting until they are mature and finding out that you suddenly need an adult female to replace a pair of males that you spent several years raising up.

As to the mites, that is not good. I can tell you that it is possible that a snake is shipped with just a couple of mites that go unnoticed, and that a very short time later there is a population explosion, and they are all over the place. It happened to me back in the early '90s. That still doesn't make it ok to ship with mites, but it explains how it can happen, especially in a shop that has a constant influx of new animals from various sources. If it is proven, then IMO, the shipper should offer SOMETHING to offset the cost and inconvenience of treating them. Good thing you quarantined them!

Thank you for your insight Kathy.

Yes, you are correct! It is my standard to go monthly anyway to have any snakes sexed which I have purchased recently.

The point is, I paid a $10 sexing fee, per snake, and when I got them....I had no idea of the sex. Sure, he must have sexed them....but he should have labeled them. It's all moot now. I'm so tired....I just wanted to help people.

-Denny

 

[Ken Foose]

Denny, I can't believe you. Who did you pay a $10 sexing fee to? Not me. Please stop making things up. This is just silly now. Now I'm wondering if you gave mites to the snakes I sent you just to blame it on me. As far as I can tell, anything with you is possible. You don't like me, fine. You won't do business with me, your choice. You think I wronged you, I understand. But please don't lie to these people about our transaction. You've said what you wanted to say. Stop making things up to pad your argument. I have all the emails you sent me, and that I sent you. Shall we compare notes?

 

[TakinANapster]

By the way, I was finally able to get a pic of some mites with y phone...however I cannot figure out how to attach it to this post......

 

[TakinANapster]

Denny, I can't believe you. Who did you pay a $10 sexing fee to? Not me. Please stop making things up. This is just silly now. Now I'm wondering if you gave mites to the snakes I sent you just to blame it on me. As far as I can tell, anything with you is possible. You don't like me, fine. You won't do business with me, your choice. You think I wronged you, I understand. But please don't lie to these people about our transaction. You've said what you wanted to say. Stop making things up to pad your argument. I have all the emails you sent me, and that I sent you. Shall we compare notes?

Ken, I have all the emails too, including where you called me ignorant and mental. Compare notes anytime!!! And I did pay you to sex the snakes!

After trying for days to work with you by email and phone (and I wish I had recorded our phone conversations!!!).....I had no recourse left other than to warn others of your shoddy business practices.

It's one thing to ship snakes in a single container, another to ship with mites, and a totally other ballpark to treat a customer the way you have treated me. Your tone on the phone was completely uncalled for every time we spoke. YOu were always in a rush and too busy to give me your attention. You compared yourself to a New Car Salesman where if you get 10% of the traffic you are happy. Well, I was one of the unlucky 10%, and I'm trying my best to warn others not to be one of your future "statistics".

-Joe

 

[Lucille]

I'll put all the emails into 1 thread and post.

You promised to do this, have I overlooked them?

 

[TakinANapster]

You promised to do this, have I overlooked them?

This has been a great challenge since every time Ken replied he replied without history. I'm still compiling though....I will get it.

I will post the emails, and if I figure out how, attach the picture with the mites. After that, I will never post another Bad Guy post no matter how bad the experience. I will take the bad experience to my grave and let others get trapped by the same scammers.....I hate to do that, since that's what this forum is for....but it's just not worth my time and effort to "help" others when they evidentally don't appreciate it.

-Joe

 

[Gojira1986]

Harold - I was not likening my experience to that of receiving snakes in an unmarked bag.. At all. Believe me, I understand the feelings of "pettiness" .. I think the poster is newer to the hobby and hasn't gotten "taken" badly yet, or flat out scammed.. So in his mind, what happened to him is a travesty! However - while the rest of us that have deceived dead animals, dying animals, or nothing at all for our money are going "seriously" this might be the worst thing that happened to him. Harold - believe me, you are the voice of reason in countless threads and I in no way meant my post towards your nice, courteous posts.
And shadowace - why are you bringing another BOI into this one? If your still that upset about it, contact Robyn and ask him who I'm shipping with now. I WAS FLAT OUT LIED to by a company and that's why I adamantly defended mY position adamantly. That has nothing to do w this thread. And you accusations of me being rude and so on - you should looking the mirror.

 

[Gojira1986]

The last post has typos - I know, I'm using a touch screen wout a stylus and it's hard for me to type

 

[Lucille]

I have all the emails, if anyone is interested. .

Ken,

Would you please post them?

 

[Morelia4life]

First thing first.... by the way the OP is handling this situation, I would call him a bad guy.
The way Ken is handling this situation, I would call him a good guy. Starting a bad guy post against Ken for bagging two snakes together... really? I think we are still waiting for those pictures of the "mites". Where are they at? It sounds like Ken handled everything perfectly. Not everyone has the same shipping practices. Do I think it is wrong to put a pair of sexed snakes together and ship them? No. If you know how to sex snakes then it is no big deal and if you don't know then maybe you should have asked the seller to do that small favor for you. Btw, I don't know Ken and I have never done business with him but he does sound like a stand up guy. Just thought I would mention that before I am considered his best friend as well.

 

[TakinANapster]

Ken,

Would you please post them?

If he don't post them soon, I will have them posted. Each time he replied, it waas without history....so I have to cut/paste each email together to get all the threads. I'm at work, so I can only do this at break and Lunch.

He CLAIMS there was only "1" phone call when there were many. Most of my experience was on hold, getting only seconds at a time to talk to him only to be placed on hold again and again.

And I DID inform him of the mites Saturday afternoon after I visited the Vet. He has the nerve to call me a liar when he is apparantly an out an out liar. That was when he stopped accepting my calls and refused to take the snakes back with the mites. I followed-up with an email Saturday night.

And, I will post the pic of the mites if someone will explain to me how to attach the pic in this forum.

-Joe

 

[Lucille]

And I DID inform him of the mites Saturday afternoon after I visited the Vet. He has the nerve to call me a liar when he is apparantly an out an out liar. That was when he stopped accepting my calls and refused to take the snakes back with the mites. I followed-up with an email Saturday night.

I have every email but the very first ones saved, and he has never mentioned mites to me.

I want to see the follow up email mentioning mites. No backpedalling. Put it on the table now.

 

[TakinANapster]

I want to see the follow up email mentioning mites. No backpedalling. Put it on the table now.

Hello Ken,

Again, thanks for the QUOTE!

As per our conversation, I got the snakes sexed today. At least you didn’t screw up and give me 2 of the same sex.

You did, however, give me snakes infested with mites!!! After working with you, Ken, this comes as no surprise.

I want you to pay that $40 Vet bill AND the return shipping for the snakes. Mite infested snakes WAS NOT part of the deal, as was not getting them unsexed!!! I should not be out one penny on this transaction. If you are in the hole on the deal, it’s because you sell mite infested unsexed snakes.

You are not reputable, Ken. You keep saying you have never screwed over a customer, but now that I see the quality of your merchandise….I see this is common practice at Exotic Pets LLC.

Regards,

Joe