Beware!!of Billy Rivers From Copperas Cove, Tx

[ms_terese]

What a train wreck this has turned into

Ritchie, stop beating yourself up. Even if this turns out to be the same boa, you aren't psychic and you can't be responsible for what happened. Even as this deal comes to light (and the previous one that hinged on the garbage collection times), there are people who are swearing by the quality of the Rivers' animals, so I'm sure it wouldn't have been hard for you to get a ton of references. There's only so much you can do. I feel for you, but don't blame yourself.

 

[gmherps]

Its been fun for the night Ritchie!!! "My words have fallen on deaf ears."

 

[gmherps]

Ritchie it's not your fault Bill is a tick turd. We all learn the hard way. I lost about $200 in the deal + medication! Take care all!!
PEACE I"M OUT!!!!

 

[HerpVenue]

It seems like someone wants this to be a different snake.
I said I packaged it up and shipped it.
But he still wanted to know when I did this.
All of a sudden the local trade came up.
If you knew it was local.....and you knew I packaged it up and shipped it.....why would you even bother asking when I sent it?

ms terese.... I should have sent the animal to you.
It would probably still be alive if it was indeed the same snake. Which I think it is.


gee Greg.
I see you refuse to answer my question.
You expressed concern over her puffiness.
I say she was a little puffy.
You say "The "puffy" was pretty big."
So if it was pretty big......Why did the vet not say anything about it?

You had an hour and a half to ponder over whether you wanted the snake or not. Whether it ws healthy or not. But I guess the prospect of taking home a possibly gravid snake and possibly having 50 babies to sell just got to you. But then your greed backfired on you. And now you want retribution for something that is partially your fault.


What I learned.
1. YOu got greedy
2. You are chastising me for not checking out the story on the proven boa........when you yourself did not check out the story on a "local trade"
3. You refuse to answer my questions.
4. When this thing started to turn around on you.......all of a sudden it was a different snake.
5. You logged on under a different name to drag the guys name in the mud.
6. You did not think you would get caught.......but you did.
7. You do not know the meaning of the word details. Or you purposely omit them so you can change them at a later time.
8. You supposedly had a "bad deal" but instead of writing about the bad deal.....your post was instead about some letter writing campaign which you were wrong about anyway.
9. You can't provide or refuse to provide vet reports.
10. You do not have pictures of the dead snake.
11. You complain that they sent you an unhealthy boa........which you picked up yourself and examined yourself for at least an hour and a half.
12. Your vet could not see the "puffiness" on the ditsl third of the snake....which you say was rather large.

Got it.
You are right.......I learned a lot

 

[HerpVenue]

See what I mean by details.

He administered Gentimicin( spelling?) And said she would need it 3 more times once every 72 hours. Well the boa never made it that far, she / he died the 2 days after.

When I got the snake on July 1st he said she had gotten over a respitory infection, and she could possibly be gravid. Well I got her home and she sounded like she had asthma. It was bad, so I got meds, adminstered 1 shot, and the next day she was dead

one say you administered the meds
the other says the vet administered it

One says she died the next day after the shots.
the other say she died two days later.


DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS
DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS
DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS

 

[NEWReptiles]

I still dont get it.

The snake had a SERIOUS respitory infection and died 2 days after I recieved her.

I went to his house.

If you went to get this animal in question, then why and the hell did you still do the trade when it should have been easy to see/hear she had RI?

 

[Stardust]

Just my opinion of what I am getting.
I think greg did try to take care of the snake once he got it, but perhaps lied about the sex thing to add to the story.
I see two people arguing back and forth when the party in the middle should be here answering a lot of questions. greg only had the animal a very short time, it should fall on the rivers.
Where are they? And I hope Ritchie you are doing some heavy duty checking into them.
If the Rivers did indeed make a profit/or attempt to off a adopted animal that is horrible!
As I see it, Ritchie was only giving an animal to what he thought was a good home, gregh tried to care for it after he got it. NO harm in either (except the sexing thing, which perhaps was to just get noticed about the rivers)
Two people arguing, I wonder if the middle party is reading and laughing.

 

[HerpVenue]

I think greg did try to take care of the snake once he got it, but perhaps lied about the sex thing to add to the story.

You and I are of the same OPINIon

but lets not forget.....
Greg also posted on the other classifieds and pretended to be another disatisfied customer.

1. The animal dieing......which is it? one or two days later?
2. The sexing thing.......which is it?
3. The posteing as another person to try and lend credence to your story.

While the River's might be kinda stinky on the threads........
Greg ain't smelling to good in my book.

 

[Wilomn]

Ritchie, I truly think that you did no wrong in this snakes death if it is even the one you sent the rivers. You did your best to get a home for an animal that you didn't feel you could properly keep. You did the right thing.

gregh, you not only saw this snake, had a chance to see, hear, feel, and watch it's behavior, you had the option to decline the trade. If it did indeed die within two days of your getting it then it must have been in advanced stages of RI. If you can't tell that then perhaps you should move into rock collecting. Or, perhaps as has been suggested, you saw those dollar signs for all the potential babies and just made a bad call. Either way, you ain't the sharpest too in the shed if you took her with ANY doubt as to her being 100% healthy.

The rivers have already been proven to be unwholesome keepers at best and most definately best avoided at all costs. They seem to have a large problem telling the truth as well, hmmmm, gregh you seem to have some similarities to them, very interesting.

Try it one more time- what happened, from start to finish in as few words as possible. Don't go all smarta$$ on me here, I'm serious about wanting to know ALL the details. Why did you take her if the rivers' place was such a pigsty and the told you she had an RI recently? You just don't seem real credible at the moment. I figure it's your last chance now to make more sense than you have previously.

This whole thread is...... what's the word- foolish, rediculous, idiotic, unreliable, doubtless there are others as well but you, gregh, have not presented yourself at all well.

My last thought and some advise to you, when in doubt pass.


Wes Pollock

 

[gmherps]

The one thing I'm not doing is explaining the entire story again. Page 2 of this thread and other pages will tell the story, just go back and read it. The bottom Line regarless if you did give Bill Rivers that snake Ritchie is this: I ended up with a snake that died. Did I take him to the vet after he died , no. That I should have done. But after spending an already $48 for medication, I saw no point in spending more cash for that. It was obvious he did have a respitory infection. Why did I go through the trade? He showed a VERY mild sign of wheezing when I was at Bill's house, but I didn't think it was anything to alarmed at. Bill did say she (he was still she at this point) had, had a slight infection but was now getting over it. I saw no harm at that point. Phone calls, emails; this guy responds to none. I don't want any $$ or my ball pythons back from him, but what I am getting is exposure on him. I should have checked the board of inquiry before I ever did a deal with him, this would've saved ALOT of time. But you know what, I've already chalked it up as a loss!! My payment has already come, in the fact that people who have done deals with him are coming here to say so, that's my payment. If people look bad upon me for whatever reason, I can't do anything about that, that's your opinion, maybe one of these days we can meet at a show and you can see face to face what kind of person I am. This guy has done this to way too many people, and they have posted here already. Heck we even have people from a local petshop that says Mr. Rivers can NOT be trusted. To take away from that would be like over looking everyone he has screwed on deals and saying "it's o.k. Bill." Well its not o.k. Other than that I have nothing to say until Bill Rivers pokes his head up and says something.

 

[ms_terese]

Greg,

I see your point, that you want to expose this guy and get the word out. Agreed. Some of what you've said seems to be coming back to bite you in the butt, and you're willing to accept that for now and just let it all die. Understood. I'm glad you're not asking for money back, because even I would say that if you had access to the snake for an hour and a half and then agreed to the deal, you own it, period.

However, there's another issue here, and it's a serious one. Whether or not the Rivers' involved an adopted animal in a trade. That has to either be proven or disproven at this point, because it's too huge an issue to let drop.

I know you're tired of this, but please take some time, think back *carefully* to that full hour and a half you spent at their house and talked about animals. If it was a local trade and she was possibly gravid, did you ask if they knew what the breeder male looked like, or if you could contact the previous owner? Did they mention if it was someone they knew from somewhere particular? What they traded for it? Did you see another boa that they might have mentioned they adopted? Did they have more than the one other adult boa that you tried to get but they were keeping?

Is there anyone else in that area that would volunteer to go see if the adopted boa is indeed still living there?

Finally, have the Rivers' been advised of this thread?

 

[HerpVenue]

See what I mean by details.

He administered Gentimicin( spelling?) And said she would need it 3 more times once every 72 hours. Well the boa never made it that far, she / he died the 2 days after.

When I got the snake on July 1st he said she had gotten over a respitory infection, and she could possibly be gravid. Well I got her home and she sounded like she had asthma. It was bad, so I got meds, adminstered 1 shot, and the next day she was dead

one say you administered the meds
the other says the vet administered it

One says she died the next day after the shots.
the other say she died two days later.


DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS
DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS
DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS

There are no details on page two that state what really happened from begginning to end.

de·tail ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-tl, dtl)
n.
An individual part or item; a particular. See Synonyms at item.
Particulars considered individually and in relation to a whole: careful attention to detail.
A minor or an inconsequential item or aspect; a minutia: skipped the details to get to the main point.
A minute or thorough treatment or account: went into detail about his travels.

A discrete part or portion of a work, such as a painting, building, or decorative object, especially when considered in isolation.
A representation of such a part or portion: a detail of a Rembrandt portrait illustrating the technique of chiaroscuro.

A small elaborated element of a work of art, craft, or design.
Such elements considered together: the intricate detail of a rococo altarpiece.
The rendering of artistic detail: the fine detail of the painter's brushwork.

The selection of one or more troops for a particular duty, usually a fatigue duty.
The personnel so selected.
The duty assigned: garbage detail.

tr.v. de·tailed, de·tail·ing, de·tails (d-tl)
To report or relate minutely or in particulars.
To name or state explicitly: detailed the charges against the defendant.
To provide with artistic or decorative detail: detailed the quilt with colorful appliqué.
To select and dispatch for a particular duty.

Idiom:
in detail
With attention to particulars; thoroughly or meticulously: explained her proposal in detail.

 

[HerpVenue]

EVERYBODY!!! WATCH OUT FOR BILL RIVERS FROM COPPERAS COVE, TEXAS!!! APPARENTLY HE WILL USE OTHER PEOPLES EMAIL ADDESSES AND EMAIL NASTY GRAMS UNDER DIFFERENT PEOPLES NAMES! BUT HE DOESN'T COVER HIS TRACKS; HE FORGETS ABOUT IP ADDRESSES BEING LIKE FINGERPRINTS. BUSTED!!!! HE EMAILED THE OWNER OF CHAMELEON COUNTERS IN COPPERAS COVE, TEXAS SLAMMING THEM ABOUT SOME GREEN BURMS. I'VE NEVER OWNED A BURM IN MY LIFE NOR WILL I!! THERE'S MORE THAN 1 WAY TO SKIN A CAT, AND NOW I GOT IT...........EMAIL FRAUD! SO TO EVERYONE OUT THERE....STAY AWAY FROM THIS GUY IF YOU VALUE YOUR MONEY AND YOUR ANIMALS!!

I still do not get it.
Bill Rivers complains to a store about their green burms.

This guy greg comes here to complain about never owning a green burm.

Basically I could have come here and written the same thing.
Gee Bill rivers is bashinga store about a green burm.
By the way I never owned a green burm.
bad bad people.

Does not make too much sense to me.

So you never owned a green burm and he is bashing a store about a green burm. What does one have to do with the other?

 

[HerpVenue]

It was a clear and sunny morning in Texas when I saw Bill Rivers ad on the angelfire site about a 7 foot female boa. I emailed him, he responded with his phone #.

maybe I am blind.
but I know the classifieds you are talking about........
But I see no ads about that 7 foot boa over there.

 

[Clay Davenport]

There are two issues in this whole drama that really stand out to me.
1. The trade was done in person locally
2. The snake died two days after the trade, death being blamed on a respiratory infection

First of all, if a respiratory infection has progressed to the point a snake is two days away from death, the signs will be unmistakable. It wouldn't just be labored breathing, the snake would be blowing some serious bubbles. I've seen RI so bad if you held the snake with the head lower than the body mucous ran out the nostrils. If indeed a RI is what killed the snake two days later, there's absolutely no reason the snake should ever been brought home.

As to the second point, if the two parties live a mere 25 miles apart why on Earth is Greg complaining about Mr. Rivers not returning calls or emails? Go see him! Knock on the guy's door and get this straightened out.
If you prefer to remain behind a keyboard when the person is so easily accessible, then that's your problem.

I feel there's a couple of possibilities here.
1. For whatever reason this is a completely contrived tale designed to simply ruin a reputation for reasons unknown. After all, there's no vet bill, no pics of a dead snake, no substantial proof at all that any of this is factual. Conveniently there's no scanner to post the bill and the old faithful reason of "I threw out the body" for not having pics of a corpse.

2. Assuming the snake is actually dead, I would be quicker to think that an improper method of medicating it killed it. The only alternative is Greg took home a boa with such a severe care of RI that it was two days from death. Given the severity of the symptoms at that stage it would amaze me if anyone voluntarily accepted a snake in such condition after taking 90 minutes to look it over.
It would have taken me about 45 second to decline the trade, if the snake was that bad off.

 

[Stardust]

Greg,
I understand, as you have admitted that you lied on other sites, I even understand why you did, to get the Rivers to come out in the open. I also believe that you like Ritchie trusted the word of these people, he in thinking they would take good care of an adopted snake and you that it had a problem but was clearing up. However, no matter the reasons, the lying was not right and has hurt your credibility.
If there is any way you can get that vet bill downloaded and on here it would really help. Show something.

 

[spcfitch]

Hi,
I recieved some turtles from him about a month ago. 2 have shell damage and 1 is blind. He never mentioned any of these problems to me before the trade occured. I'm not one to cause any problems that's why I didn't post this before. I didn't say anything to him about the turtles after the trade. He had already made me mad before I got the turtles. I sent him 2.2 adult mali uromastxy and 3 adult female leopard geckos. My wife shipped them usps, I told her not to but she did anyway. Anyway it took them 2 days to get there. I was worried that they would end up dead and I would be labeled as the bad guy. My wife shipped them on thursday the post office said the package would be there on friday. When he didn't get them on friday that's when I got worried. The following day I recieve an e-mail around 2pm saying that he had not recieved the lizards yet. I checked the tracking number at usps.com and this is what it said "Your item was delivered at 10:55 am on June 21, 2003 in COPPERAS COVE, TX 76522. The item was signed for by K RIVERS." Now I don't know if he was trying to scam me or not but I don't like to be lied to and that was a straight up lie. Telling me that the lizards wern't there yet when in fact his wife already signed for them.
He also doesn't have the best packaging skills either. He sent me 7 adult box turtles in a box that measures 14" long x 10" wide x 6"high. I still have the box the exact way that I recieved it. Plus he had the turtles in direct contact with the styrafoam(spelling?) liner which looked like they were scratching holes in. I don't know what happens if they would eat it but I don't think it would be good. Well I don't know what else to say. So I'm outta here for now. Thanks for listining Jake


Jake Fitch

 

[Darin Chappell]

Given the later revelations concerning his posting with a fake name on another site, I found this initial statement of Greg's more than mildly amusing . . .

"BUT HE DOESN'T COVER HIS TRACKS; HE FORGETS ABOUT IP ADDRESSES BEING LIKE FINGERPRINTS. BUSTED!!!!"

Apparently, Greg forgot about that too!

Also, for anyone to come here and say that they traded an animal, in person (with 90 minutes to examine it before hand), and that it died of a resp infection 2 days later is just rediculous! That snake would have hed to have been blowing bubbles at the very least, if it were to be so near death's doorstep. However, Greg's own words say that he knew the animal was sick! Granted, he says that he was told she was getting better, but that is irrelavent to the issue. Illnesses take a turn for the worse all the time, and no one knows for certain why (maybe driving in a car with the A/C on too high?!?!?

Regardless, Greg knowingly took a sick snake in trade and it died two days later. Even if I assume that everything Greg has said about this is true (which I do not, given his blatant inconsistancies), I still cannot see how he is owed one blessed thing out of this!

As for the issue that Terese addressed concerning the possibility of trading an adoptee for profit, I agree that this is a serious issue. However, I don't see how Greg can add anything of substance to the question. After all, either he was lied to (thereby making whatever information he might give us false), or he is actually lying (in which case the same is true). No, it seems to me that the Rivers need to come clean with their own proof against this possible accusation. If they do have that female that they got from Ritchie, and she has not been traded away, post a current picture of her here! Just lay her out on a current newspaper, and snap a quick picture! That will serve as bonafide proof for all to see.

 

[HerpVenue]

"Posted by Greg on 7/17/2003, 11:29 am
208.189.118.201

THIS GUY HAS A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH SELLING SICK REPTILES. ALL OF HIS REPTILES HAVE RESPITORY INFECTIONS AND WILL TELL YOU THEY ARE FINE. BEWARE OF HIM!! "

The above is Greg's post on a classifieds. found at this link http://members2.boardhost.com/SnakeClassified/msg/5041.html


"Posted by roger on 7/18/2003, 6:17 am, in reply to "BEWARE!! BILL FROM COPPERAS COVE, TX"
208.189.118.201

I got burned from this guy too. I guess he likes to take advantage of kids. I sent him some snakes and he says he didn't get them! I checked and found on another website he's done the same thing. What a bum! "

The above is "Rogers" post found on the same site. http://members2.boardhost.com/SnakeClassified/msg/5049.html


"Posted by Ritchie on 7/20/2003, 6:56 pm, in reply to "Re: BEWARE!! BILL FROM COPPERAS COVE, TX"
68.67.199.90

Greg and Roger are the same person.
Look at the little blue numbers under the name.
the numbers are identical.
Which means Greg and roger are the same person "
the above is my answer to both of them. And I called them out in public. http://members2.boardhost.com/SnakeClassified/msg/5068.html


And what did Greg have to say about all this?


"Posted by greg on 7/20/2003, 7:01 pm, in reply to "Little info on greg and Roger."
208.189.119.192

The reason I did that is to catch someone sending false emails under my email address, and it worked. I had an email this morning from Chameleon Counters in C.C. Tx slamming me about a supposed email I sent. I found out the person is someone from Herndon, VA. "

http://members2.boardhost.com/SnakeClassified/msg/5069.html



It is weird. He complains about Bill and Kim Rivers.
But out of the Blue Chameleon Counters e-mails him to tell him about an e-mail they received? It does not add up. What does Bill and Kim's animals have to do with e-mails that someone from a TOTALLY DIFFERENT state have to do with anything?

Anyone else see something wrong? He wants to catch someone sending fake e-mails......so he drags someones name through the mud NICE

I say Gregy boy got all too caught up in his lies.

Sorta like this thread.
He has a bad deal will Bill Rivers "Supposedly"
But what did he complain about in his first post?
Some e-mail coming from someone else from a TOTALLY DIFFERENT state.

Something does not add up.
And I do not think we can get an explanation from old Gregy boy...The lying boy wonder.

 

[John Apple]

????

After reading this entire thread I find I know nothing but the fact that a trade happened.
When did the snake die?
Who gave it meds?
Are the other snakes alive?
Why all the tomfoolery and deceit Greg???

What I did find out.....
Greg and Roger are the same people Fact
Greg Lied about his identity on another board Fact
Greg started this thread with an attack with no facts Fact
Greg can't get his story straight on when the snake died Fact
Greg 'Knowingly' took a sick snake...cmon this is a..... Fact
This thread is a one sided wind tunnel Fact
Ritchie is NOT at fault here Fact
No pictures of this snake to substantuate anything Fact
No vet bill shown Fact
One question though...would any vet in their right mind give anyone some meds to administer to an animal by way of a needle???

That being said I don't think I'll ever do any kind of deal with Greg, too many facts here against Greg then for him.
I am sure a lot of you feel the same way in this respect.
I would like to here the 'other side' of this mess