Beware of Sara & Michael Clark, BAD GUY

[critical bill]

Hey Pammy.

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[Kairo]

From: Michael Clark <[email protected]> Save Address | Headers
To : [email protected]
CC :
Date : Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject : Re: Your Retic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have started a case with the police. They will be contacting you or your police department, I'm not sure which!




----- Original Message ----
From: pamela <[email protected]>
To: Michael Clark <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:15:01 PM
Subject: Re: Your Retic.


UPS runs late, period, it's FAR too hot to run in a truck until 6:00pm for a reptile without cool packs. I never once said anyone was stupid, i don't like that word. I do want my money back, yes of course! I bought a dead snake. Sara and i agreed on this last night, the snake has arrived DOA.

Think about this. Please. You say you ship UPS before and never had a problem. I talked with UPS today, they are not going to kill an animal, every move made in the facilities is recorded via camera feed.

The box would have had a stamp UPS if they had to put anything on it to make it more sturdy. There is not one stamp from UPS. And they would have contacted the dealer if a problem came about, which it did not. Did you call them too?

This is not an argument. This is reality. I lived it. The horror of opening your animal and it's dead. Me, never living this nightmare before... i am shocked. I spent over $1,000 including the animal to have it set up when my AP cage arrives.

Sure i want a refund, or even another animal if you can't do a refund, i'm willing to work with this somehow, (but it has to be an animal that is worth the Retic. and fits in my collection) that would have cool packs and be shipped Fedex, with proper breathing.

To not become enemies but work this out is very important to me.

I'm not the kind of person to name call or slam a person due to an accident. I only know i had the arrival the way i explained.

If we can reach an agreement this would be fine. My money back is important. But i honestly think there was a mistake with the shipping of this animal. I don't nor can i play games. This is my money, my snake, my life. It happened to me, what would you have done? Honestly. You can't do anything but contact the seller and let them know what has happened.
This i have done. I followed protocal here.

My email to you says not UPS... i did not pay for UPS, you told me it was going to be okay UPS. It was horrid. Fedex comes at 10:30am.

This being said, i am still very sad for the animal and me, for not getting to know it, and own it.

Pamela Misson


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Michael Clark <[email protected] >
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:34:20 -0700 (PDT)

>Hi,
>If what you wanted was a refund why don't you ask for a refund instead of tellin me u need to do this and do that?
>I do not appreciate you blaming me saying Im stupid enough to ship a snake in a plastic bag....Think about your story for a minute...If I really wanted to kill a snake why would I go threw the trouble of shipping it to someone?.....C'mon I have tons of money invested into that retic and everything else. The only reason he was for sale is b/c I couldn't find a female to go with him. I do NOT appreciate all your comments on how UPS is perfect and I did that to an animal!! I emailed you personally b4 I shipped UPS and U never Once said DO NOT SHIP HIM!!!....Lets stop playin these games and just be straight forward. You know as well as I know I did not ship a snake in a plastic bag!! Anywho If you think UPS is so perfect and didn't tamper with the box why do you have a problem with them in the first place? If you thought they were good at shipping you wouldn't be throwing a fit about them now!
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: pamela <[email protected] >
>To: Michael Clark < [email protected]>
>Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:54:26 PM
>Subject: Re: Your Retic.
>
>
>I would like you to please read this email.
>
>First: I paid for Fedex delivery. Not UPS this happened after the transaction.
>Second: I had animal services out here taking pictures of everything. They will be in touch with me.
>Third: I called UPS, your package has not been tampered with, i.e. damaged or they would have contacted you ASAP! UPS ONLY ships fish and insects legally. I made it clear no not UPS! Only because they run late and we are in the 90's. Also the package was not tagged with perishable, rush delivery etc.
>
>I had my greatest faith in you people without knowing you. All i want is for you to please make this right, somehow, someway.
>I have read the testimony on Reptile Auctions. A person that ordered a "nasty snake" was taken care of by you.
>
>I bought a dead snake. I ask you to help me out. This is my hard earned money, with a $644.97 Animal Plastic cage coming for this dead snake.
>
>I have not heard from you.
>
>Again i ask you to please keep your customers satisfied.
>
>Our original deal did not work. I paid fedex, and shipping! This i made clear is how my animals are transfered to me.
>Your husband made it clear not to worry, he would be fine.
>
>Pamela Misson.
>
>
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Michael Clark <[email protected] >
>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:53:27 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Hi,
>>Alright then we are all set on an argreement..I will send you a paypal invoice and as long as its paid i will ship him out thursday afternoon for a fri delievery!!! thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>From: pamela < [email protected]>
>>To: Michael Clark <[email protected] >
>>Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 5:46:06 PM
>>Subject: Re: Your Retic.
>>
>>
>>Yes! I just ordered a T-65 Animal Plastics cage for him today.
>>
>>I would love to have him shipped for Friday morning, so i can stack a few Vision cages around and make room.
>>
>>Let me know what to do next.
>>
>>Thank you Pamela.
>>
>>Or if you would like to call about the sale... (321)952-9477
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: Michael Clark < [email protected]>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:01:22 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>Yes he is still available at the moment. I have another guy who wants him but he has given me no money! And technically you were interested b4 him...That cage is fine!! The cage I have him in at the momment is 4' x 2' x2' b/c we r rearranging the reptile room!! And he seems fine in that!!....You want him shipped to be there thursday or shipped thursday for friday?......
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----
>>>From: pamela <[email protected] >
>>>To: Michael Clark < [email protected]>
>>>Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:53:02 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Your Retic.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi and thanks for the pictures. Caging is a problem at this time.
>>>I have a few reptile tubs, but they may not be wide enough. I don't want to cramp him for a time.
>>>
>>>May i ask what size cage he is used to. I do have a 5'Lx3'x2'h for now. Everyone says this will hold him fine for a few weeks. But he will have to come out.
>>>
>>>If he is still up for sale can i get him for a Thursday morning ship to my home?
>>>
>>>I need to hit Home Depot etc. To look around for now. My Vision i thought would work is a tad too small for him my roomate and i decided.
>>>
>>>Thanks Pamela.
>>>
>>>
>>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>>From: Michael Clark < [email protected]>
>>>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:55:05 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>>>Hi Pamela,
>>>>I do not need to sell him on reptile auction I will sell him outright. I ship Fedex overnight...but if you have an account for shipping somewhere you can set up shipping if you would like. Otherwise I need your zipcode to tell you how much shipping would be. My husbands bottom price on the retic is $125+ shipping....He eats f/t jumbo rats... never misses a feeding. Let me know if you want him and I will take him off reptile auctions.....and we can do a mutual agreement through email....I do have paypal also.....let me know what you think...
>>>>PS. You seen pics on reptile auction or do u need some?
>>>>Thanks Again,
>>>>Sara and Michael Clark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----
>>>>From: pamela < [email protected]>
>>>>To: [email protected]
>>>>Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 4:25:39 PM
>>>>Subject: Your Retic.
>>>>
>>>>Hi. My name is Pamela. I do not have an account on Retile auctions, but a friend told me about a male dwarf Retic. you want to trade or sell.
>>>>
>>>>I keep 6 Retics. No femle to breed him with, but the love of the hobby has let me looking at him. I may get a Dwarf female down the line...
>>>>
>>>>He is beautiful. I have a 10' male dwarf, amoung others.
>>>>
>>>>I take very good care of all my snakes.
>>>>
>>>>I have no trades but hope you would offer me up a good price on him.
>>>>
>>>>I have a large female Ball Python left before i got only into Retics. Sold off a 6' male Dum.
>>>>
>>>>But i love the look of that snake, and i have the room.
>>>>
>>>>Let me know
>>>>
>>>>Thank you.
>>>>Pamela
>>>>

I am not sure if i posted this email... but it's important to me and the sale.
But for one... i paid fedex shipping. Almost $100 dollars for that alone. UPS was cheaper shipping. You charged me for 16lbs, and the actual weight was 14lbs, this makes a difference in shipping price as well.
There are alot of loopholes in your emails. DAMN anyway, if i pay Fedex, and ask for cool packs.....

Michael writes like serpentboy. b4 and
thanks,
Michael Clark

I notice this. But can't prove it. Just pointing it out. And AOL screen name... different, but the MO seems to be about the same.

 

[monitors007]

here we go...

so i just got reading this crazy post and still cant undrstand why the pics havent been posted yet since she went so far into detail with all those emails and details and such but still no pics of this misterious snake that arrived dead so to say double packed and everything. things just dont ad up and trust me in my line of work, investigation is number one priority. so post the pics and make sure that you can see the snake clearly with all markings and head shots because each snake has individual markings on and about the head and neck that only its owner{s} and former owners can recognize because not every snake is marked the same so hopefully this deliteful woman will post the pics of this terrible dilemna she is having to suffer through and all and making all kinds of call to everyone but her govenor and the big man in the white house. post the pics and let us decide if these people are really as bad as you say they are before you go ruining their name and all in this business/hobby that we all have come to love and enjoy...
take care and hope to see the good clear pics real soon...

 

[Kairo]

so i just got reading this crazy post and still cant undrstand why the pics havent been posted yet since she went so far into detail with all those emails and details and such but still no pics of this misterious snake that arrived dead so to say double packed and everything. things just dont ad up and trust me in my line of work, investigation is number one priority. so post the pics and make sure that you can see the snake clearly with all markings and head shots because each snake has individual markings on and about the head and neck that only its owner{s} and former owners can recognize because not every snake is marked the same so hopefully this deliteful woman will post the pics of this terrible dilemna she is having to suffer through and all and making all kinds of call to everyone but her govenor and the big man in the white house. post the pics and let us decide if these people are really as bad as you say they are before you go ruining their name and all in this business/hobby that we all have come to love and enjoy...
take care and hope to see the good clear pics real soon...

Well if this is your line of work, then start by reading ALL the emails and messages. The snake was picked up by Animal Services the next morning, i called them that evening. They as well have pictures i am sure. I posted their number for anyone who does not believe me.
My camera shows the snake fine. It's blurry sure. But it's the snake. I have more pictures of Mike Clark holding the snake, and it's it!!
Yea i did give ALOT of information didn't i. And what the heck did Sara or Mike give....NADA!

Contact my animal services for additional pictures, those are all i took. And if they are not good enough for you, too bad.

I have given enough info. The seller gave CRAP for proof.

Pics. are up.....use a computer program to make them more clear, i'msure you can being this is your line of work!

Don't turn this situation on me. I had enough of people in the reptile business who scam others out of money. Yea i will tell all about them, it's my right, it's all TRUE!

Go back... read before you type.

 

[Kairo]

Let me help you some more. That is her pillow case. She does not dispute that or actually the snake. And i have all my retics. micro chipped. It's the law in Fl. Ummm, if one died or i got rid of it i need to contact FFWGC to get it out of my name. So.... that snake is not one of mine. It's Michael Clarks snake.

But eh you wont hear from them (or her rather) on here anymore.

Still waiting for the police report from them that they claim they have made.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Is this the same Michael Clark from Texas that used to go by the name Serpentboy?

I have been trying to figure that out for awhile. I was leaning towards not until I read the emails and they were remarkably similar but I think it is highly unlikely they are the same.

Here is my reasoning.

A few things that point to him not being Serpentboy is that he has had a kingsnake account that predates serpentboy and has always stated he is from Michigan .

Also, he had a previous account here on Fauna. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=12996 at the time sboy was posting here. His old IPs on the old account also came out of Michigan while serpentboy was coming out of Texas.

His PayPal account information isn't tied to any serpentboy email accounts that I know he is still using. Currently, this Mike's paypal account has been suspended from receiving funds.

This Mike has a ebay account that originates out of Michigan at the same time that I know that the other Mike was/is still in Texas. I did find it a little coincidental that his only buyer was by someone with the username "clark" but whatever.

I don't believe this Mike to be the same.

 

[reagorfu]

so i have read this thread and the other she started and i seriously think this woman is crazy. really i do, because there is no other explanation for her behavior and the way she writes. she has some very serious problems, and i would not wish a customer like her for anyone.

does anyone really understand what the heck she is talking about in her posts? i have read this a few times, and every time i read her posts i feel like i am missing things. i think that she should get nothing from sara and mike. she has no proof. i also think that no one should ever do business with this woman. i think some one should start a warning thread on here about her.

 

[Kairo]

I have been trying to figure that out for awhile. I was leaning towards not until I read the emails and they were remarkably similar but I think it is highly unlikely they are the same.

Here is my reasoning.

A few things that point to him not being Serpentboy is that he has had a kingsnake account that predates serpentboy and has always stated he is from Michigan .

Also, he had a previous account here on Fauna. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=12996 at the time sboy was posting here. His old IPs on the old account also came out of Michigan while serpentboy was coming out of Texas.

His PayPal account information isn't tied to any serpentboy email accounts that I know he is still using. Currently, this Mike's paypal account has been suspended from receiving funds.

This Mike has a ebay account that originates out of Michigan at the same time that I know that the other Mike was/is still in Texas. I did find it a little coincidental that his only buyer was by someone with the username "clark" but whatever.

I don't believe this Mike to be the same.

While i sure hope you are right. I will always have my doubts after a phone conversation.

I have stuck with the well known names in the snake business, and made my mistake by falling out of that loop. In the future i will remain with the well known breeders who i never had a problem with.

As for Sara & Mike Clark. I only hope that people will stay away from them. Sara came on here taling about a police report etc. and backed up nothing with a phone number, case ID etc.
So i hope with all the emails and other info. i did my best at under the circumstances that these people will be outed one day.

It's too easy to spend more money and sue. Then they simply can open up another email and be booming in business.

To this day i have not gotten a refund from them. They refuse emails and phone calls. Asked me if i wanted a refund, i said yes! I asked if they wanted the contents and body shipped back, no reply after a few days, so that is when i came here. Only to let people who asked me for their name and proof so they can stay away from them.
I have signed on with Reptile Auctions, and will write them as well.

It's my right to warn others. As for the other people throwing harsh words around you always know they either know the seller, or have a field day at anothers loss. So they get ignored.

Rest assured i will NEVER go with just a name selling a snake again.

Beware of these people, this happened to me. And i don't want this to happen to those who care about the reptile business and an animals death, not to mention getting ripped off!

 

[Roy Munson]

I'd consider buying from Sara and Mike if they had something I wanted. I wouldn't want a psycho like Pamela to even have my email address, say nothing about selling to or purchasing from her.

 

[dprince]

OK, I am admittedly a gecko person, but why would someone have a dead snake picked up by animal control in the first place? Wouldn't you want to hold onto the "evidence" until you could clear things up with the seller? Also, why on earth would animal control take someone's pictures as well?

I am really trying to understand, and am at a loss.

 

[reagorfu]

OK, I am admittedly a gecko person, but why would someone have a dead snake picked up by animal control in the first place? Wouldn't you want to hold onto the "evidence" until you could clear things up with the seller? Also, why on earth would animal control take someone's pictures as well?

I am really trying to understand, and am at a loss.

It is really easy to understand the whole story if you know going into this thread that the OP is bat poop crazy.

the snake is most likely still alive or she killed it on accident when she first got it. she may not even know that she killed it or still has it, i really think this lady is THAT crazy. i feel very sorry for this lady, because she may not know how insane she is. i just hope that she gets help some day soon.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I asked if they wanted the contents and body shipped back, no reply after a few days, so that is when i came here.

So you offerred to ship back a snake that was not in your possession? If AC picked up the snake the morning after it arrived, how were you going to ship it back a few days later? Just curious.

 

[Kairo]

It is really easy to understand the whole story if you know going into this thread that the OP is bat poop crazy.

the snake is most likely still alive or she killed it on accident when she first got it. she may not even know that she killed it or still has it, i really think this lady is THAT crazy. i feel very sorry for this lady, because she may not know how insane she is. i just hope that she gets help some day soon.

Wow, kinda harsh.

First i own Retics. I can't keep the snake if i was a bad person and tried to. I have to micro, all my Retics. and send in info, i.e. chip # etc. to the FFWGC every time i ad on another Retic. to my permit! Blows that theory, doesn't it!

I killed the snake. You are an idiot! I will not comment to that crap.

 

[critical bill]

So you offerred to ship back a snake that was not in your possession? If AC picked up the snake the morning after it arrived, how were you going to ship it back a few days later? Just curious.

Precisely. She lies about so much that she cant even keep track of her own lies.

 

[critical bill]

I can't keep the snake if i was a bad person and tried to.

Is anyone fluent in crazy that would be so kind as to translate this for me?

 

[Kairo]

So you offerred to ship back a snake that was not in your possession? If AC picked up the snake the morning after it arrived, how were you going to ship it back a few days later? Just curious.

Yes. I offered the snake back in an email that evening to Sara and Mike!!!

No reply. Even the next morning, no reply. And they always emailed me through the whole transaction until i told them about the snake arrival DOA.

I called animal services that evening AFTER an email, pictures etc. to them because i was livid! A snake i bought came to my home in a plastic bag!!! I wanted Animal Services to take pictures and write up a report, be involved. Also.... disposal (when the seller never answered my emails) of a dead snake is something i had never done. Can you bury it in your yard etc. Heck i did not know if i could. Or in what or how deep for example.

SO... Seller was contacted FIRST to have the snake shipped back. NO reply. I then moved on after unanswered emails with what i thought was needed for evidence.

I went through every step through the whole process with this dead snake, as i would have a dead pup arrived at my home.

This may be a joke or fun for some of you writing this crap. But you are not here, you did not see what happened. I have never had a snake die at my home or during shipping EVER!

I am still LIVID with these scams. Until people start and keep fighting when something goes wrong, these people who do this to us will never be stopped.

Have you read her emails to me???? And i'm crazy. She has not proved any email she sent me. Police told her not to give me my money back until they have investigated... Okay! I called the police, they no nothing!

Sara and Michael are LIARS! Go buy from them...

Read the emails first with an open mind, so you don't become the next FOOL!

Also there was no marks to be seen on that snake (trauma) it was clean. The snake suffocated in a plastic bag, and sure.... i am going to buy an AP cage for it, (total bill snake included running close to $1,000) get the snake and toss it in a plastic bag when it arrives at my home all for $127 bucks....Okay, right!

 

[critical bill]

Yes. I offered the snake back in an email that evening to Sara and Mike!!! No reply. Even the next morning, no reply.

So what the psycho chick is actually saying folks is that....after hours of reporting the snake DOA and not hearing back from them IMMEDIATELY, she didn't think to freeze the snake in case they required it back or to discard the snake after taking some clear identifying photos to provide them by them if they requested it. NO. Psycho decided it would be better to launch a full scale war against them and involve her pals at animal control.

The snake is no longer available for positive identification. No clear photos exist to positively ID the snake. Partial paperwork has been provided that doesn't amount to anything. And the fruit cake still wants to know why no one believes her and continues fruitlessly to try and prove her case with absolutely no solid proof.

Pammy, you could call suicide hot-line and even they would place you on hold. You're on your own. No one cares. Go away.

 

[lanceheads]

Chuck,
That's enough!
The suicide Hotline thing is WRONG!

Randal

 

[LauraB]

Pamela ...

Yes. I offered the snake back in an email that evening to Sara and Mike!!! No reply. Even the next morning, no reply.

If you read back, you will see where I specifically asked you to post YOUR emails to THEM from Friday, the 20th following the delivery. Evidently, you chose to ignore me or you have none. You did, however post the following:

To : [email protected]
CC :
Date : Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:04:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject : Re: Your Retic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im going to call animal control in the morning....And tell them how I shipped it and where I shipped it from...Like I said thats not my box!!....So you are saying they have tapes you can see publicly?...Good because I want you to see that is not what I shipped him in...I have not recieved any calls from them at all and obviosly they tampered with my box because the one you got is not mine! Thanks for letting me know and for the pictures I will hand over to animal control tomorrow!

Now, that clearly is from Friday at 9:04 PM. A response to email/s from you earlier in the evening. Where is/are your INITIAL email/s to them? You claim to have asked them if they wanted you to return the dead snake, and claim they did not reply ... but yet they clearly DID respond on Friday AFTER the delivery. So where is the email where you asked them if they needed the carcass returned? Then you had Animal Control pick the carcass up Saturday. It just makes no sense.

Nothing about this whole transaction makes sense. It makes no sense that a snake would be shipped in a plastic bag. It makes no sense that the Clark's would contact their local PD in Michigan when the "evidence" is already in another state. (And I might add, there has been no response from them to my request that they provide a case number and which local PD they claim is doing an investigation).
It makes no sense that you, Pamela, would have Animal Control remove the snake's body so quickly. You are not a novice buyer or keeper, Pamela. You know the ropes, so to speak.

Post the emails, Pamela. Don't pick and choose which ones to post and then make claims you can't back up. I do see on the tracking information where UPS made note of a damage investigation on 6-23; who instigated that?

 

[MikeCurtin]

SO... Seller was contacted FIRST to have the snake shipped back. NO reply. I then moved on after unanswered emails with what i thought was needed for evidence.

Animal control was called the next morning? I thought you spent 3 hours w/ the snake in a cool bath before you e-mailed them, which brings us to around 9 or 10pm. Am I mistaken?

This may be a joke or fun for some of you writing this crap. But you are not here, you did not see what happened. I have never had a snake die at my home or during shipping EVER!

Not at all...your actions affect everyone here! Bad publicity involving the improper shipping of a 7' Reticulated Python which culminates in contacting animal control is not good. I didn't have to be there to know that! So, NO, this isn't a joke!

I am still LIVID with these scams. Until people start and keep fighting when something goes wrong, these people who do this to us will never be stopped.

Me too...you want to see the kind of scams I'm most LIVID with? Search this forum for "BRIZZY"!