BRANDON AT REPTIRUS- REALLY BAD GUY.

[John E Dove]

Perhaps if there is someone in Ca that is close to the San Jose area who Brandon can trust, and is willing, they could pick up these geckos and hold them until shipping would be advisable. Then Brandon could refund the money and be done with this ....
On a personal note; if Brandon were selling Texas Banded Geckos I would buy from him without worry.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Marcia even did note that the swelling was most likely brought on even more by shipping.

Just to clear things up, I did not say it was most likely... I said it is possible. Extreme stress can cause the parathyroid gland (controls calcium metabolism) to become over-stimulated and leach the calcium from the blood and bones. This could be, and I repeat COULD be, a possible explanation for the hypocalcemia and loss of bone density. I made a recommendaton to Brittney yesterday to get the gecko on a NeoCalglucon (liquid calcium) protocol.

It's a shame that this situation has escalated to an emotional catharsis for both the seller and the buyer. We all have our own theories of how WE might have handled the situation if we were in their shoes, but the truth of the matter is that the people involved are human, and both love their geckos.

I am concerned that the geckos were sold as a "breeding pair", yet the female has never been bred. I am adamant that this female should NOT be bred under any circumstances if she is prone to hypocalcemia. Egg production demands high levels of calcium, and if there is a congenital pelvic deformity as it appears, there will always be the risk of dystocia, or egg-binding, because they cannot pass through the pelvic cavity.

I would like to strongly recommend that BOTH geckos be returned for a FULL refund... including shipping. Since she lives within about an hour of me, I will be happy to assist Brittney with whatever is necessary to care for the geckos and their return shipment after the Holiday.

I also would like to remind both parties that the way their behavior is conducted here on this public forum is being scrutinized by the reptile community, which is not very forgiving and has a l-o-n-g memory. If either of you value your reputation as 'breeders', you will need to take a good look at how this situation has been dealt with.

Like Kelli said in a previous post:

I am just making the point that sometimes it's better to just do what needs to be done to make the customer "happy" and then move the heck on.

 

[lizardsister2]

Just a thought

I know I'm a newcomer at the end of this situation and I certainly don't want to take sides with either party. I agree with many of you that the seller has been more than reasonable about refunding etc. I also agree that from the beginning when the buyer didn't give the seller enough time to correct the situation to now when she's making it difficult for him to provide a refund, she has certainly drawn out the matter.

But in general I would really like to see us all have a higher standard of expectations. Yes he's offering to make it right. That's great. And it should keep him off the bad guy list. But come on now. Y'all are looking at pictures where you can see the deformity. I'm out of the hobby now, but i used to have a pretty large colony of leos I was breeding. And if you take care of them every day, watch them, handle them, etc. You notice if they look different, act different, eat different, move different etc. There's no way a lump like that would have gone unnoticed in my collection. Now there's no way for me to say that this happened in this particular situation. But I had a seller send me an animal once that had an obvious deformity that certainly did not develop over night in a box. He refunded me, and that's great, but if I hadn't been smart or experienced enough to catch what it was or bold enough to demand a refund he was perfectly fine sending me an imperfect animal even though it was dishonest and he put the animal at risk shipping it. His hope was that I wouldn't catch it until the time had elapsed on his terms and he'd get good money for a bad animal. Can we really say this is good honest business just because someone offers a refund when they're caught doing it?

Again it's possible that the seller in this matter truly did not realize the problem beforehand and that he didn't notice because of some circumstance other than neglect. I certainly don't have enough info to accuse him of this. My only real question is why are we all okay with whatever someone does as long as they offer a refund once they're caught doing it?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Again it's possible that the seller in this matter truly did not realize the problem beforehand and that he didn't notice because of some circumstance other than neglect. I certainly don't have enough info to accuse him of this. My only real question is why are we all okay with whatever someone does as long as they offer a refund once they're caught doing it?

Good point. Brandon, did you know this gecko had the defect? If not, how come?

 

[Wilomn]

Again it's possible that the seller in this matter truly did not realize the problem beforehand and that he didn't notice because of some circumstance other than neglect. I certainly don't have enough info to accuse him of this. My only real question is why are we all okay with whatever someone does as long as they offer a refund once they're caught doing it?

I don't think you have your apples lined up with your oranges proplerly.

So far as I know there are no other bad guy dealings that Brandon has been involved with. Since there are NONE, why should he NOT recieve the benifit of the doubt in this case?

Now had there been other times he had sold substandard animals as standard, then I could see not believing him.

The basic answer to your question is because he isn't known for doing this and HE went out of his way to make his buyer happy. His buyer has lied and exaggerated and been a royal pain in the butt and he's still trying to make it right.

I'd have a tough time refunding for both geckos if it had been me treated as she treated him. I'm not as nice as Kelli. I would have tried to be for a while, but eventually I'd put my foot down, TELL her my terms and then let the chips fall where they may.

She's lucky Brandon is STILL willing to work this out. SHE made a mess of this from the initial post.

You'll be OK Brandon, so long as you don't lose your cool. I'd seriously commit to refunding her, including shipping costs and just write her off as a bad experience. Your reputation will gain more than the 40-50 dollars you'll be out on shipping and you can still get good money for the male.

Donate the female to a classroom or educational program and you're even better.

Don't let her get you mad, don't say anything rash, and don't let it bother you. We all get one of these buyers from time to time.

 

[doyle033]

Brandon, she's a trainwreck.

Take them BOTH back and refund her everything.

You'll come out smelling like roses and she'll be left in the dirt, where she seems to want to be.

have to disagree with you a bit there Wes. remember way back in post #128:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: concerning the geckos- i have a plan.
Date: November 20, 2007 8:51:16 PM PST
To: [email protected]

Since you have chosen to take a matter to the BOI that clearly did not even
belong there, the BOI is where it shall stay. I will not discuss any
matters threw any means but the BOI. You try to make me out to be a bad guy
when I obviously was trying to solve the matter at hand. I had very open
communication with you, and offered to refund for the female. I am clearly
not the bad guy in all of this. I am trying to work with you the best
possible, mistakes do sometimes happen. I really don't see how this
happened, or how it was not seen before but as I said if your claims are
true, then mistakes do happen. Truth of the matter is you took this to the
BOI when it did not belong there, If anyone deserves a bad guy thread, its
you for the way you have acted about everything.

seems brandon wants to be a bit of a drama queen here too. refunding both geckos for full price plus shipping is a no brainer. she bought them as a pair, she should return them as a pair.
i also have some faint questions as to why brandon sold this "hold back, breeding project" and yet came down very dramatically on the price. i could be off base but PERHAPS (just a hypothetical situation) he was trying to dump the bump-backed female and got pinched a little?
anywho, both parties could have handled this better BUT i don't think its fair to put the TS on the "do not sell to" list without putting Brandon on the "do not buy from list". they both were VERY eager to show everyone a not too flattering side of themselves.
AND
i for one would not buy from or sell to anyone who places all the emphasis on the money, as both of these two have, without much regard to the animals. speaks volumes on both.
my .02 cents

 

[deborahbroadus]

have to disagree with you a bit there Wes. remember way back in post #128:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: concerning the geckos- i have a plan.
Date: November 20, 2007 8:51:16 PM PST
To: [email protected]

Since you have chosen to take a matter to the BOI that clearly did not even
belong there, the BOI is where it shall stay. I will not discuss any
matters threw any means but the BOI. You try to make me out to be a bad guy
when I obviously was trying to solve the matter at hand. I had very open
communication with you, and offered to refund for the female. I am clearly
not the bad guy in all of this. I am trying to work with you the best
possible, mistakes do sometimes happen. I really don't see how this
happened, or how it was not seen before but as I said if your claims are
true, then mistakes do happen. Truth of the matter is you took this to the
BOI when it did not belong there, If anyone deserves a bad guy thread, its
you for the way you have acted about everything.

seems brandon wants to be a bit of a drama queen here too. refunding both geckos for full price plus shipping is a no brainer. she bought them as a pair, she should return them as a pair.
i also have some faint questions as to why brandon sold this "hold back, breeding project" and yet came down very dramatically on the price. i could be off base but PERHAPS (just a hypothetical situation) he was trying to dump the bump-backed female and got pinched a little?
anywho, both parties could have handled this better BUT i don't think its fair to put the TS on the "do not sell to" list without putting Brandon on the "do not buy from list". they both were VERY eager to show everyone a not too flattering side of themselves.
AND
i for one would not buy from or sell to anyone who places all the emphasis on the money, as both of these two have, without much regard to the animals. speaks volumes on both.
my .02 cents

 

[GDReptile]

What I learned while reading through this tread.

I would like to provide a review and conclusion for those just joining us.


Cliff notes for this thread:
Blah Blah Blah. I'm an unreasonable crazy lady. Blah blah blah.


What I learned from this thread:
Do not do business with brittney.

 

[Wilomn]

have to disagree with you a bit there Wes. remember way back in post #128:
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: concerning the geckos- i have a plan.
Date: November 20, 2007 8:51:16 PM PST
To: [email protected]

Since you have chosen to take a matter to the BOI that clearly did not even
belong there, the BOI is where it shall stay. I will not discuss any
matters threw any means but the BOI. You try to make me out to be a bad guy
when I obviously was trying to solve the matter at hand. I had very open
communication with you, and offered to refund for the female. I am clearly
not the bad guy in all of this. I am trying to work with you the best
possible, mistakes do sometimes happen. I really don't see how this
happened, or how it was not seen before but as I said if your claims are
true, then mistakes do happen. Truth of the matter is you took this to the
BOI when it did not belong there, If anyone deserves a bad guy thread, its
you for the way you have acted about everything.

seems brandon wants to be a bit of a drama queen here too. refunding both geckos for full price plus shipping is a no brainer. she bought them as a pair, she should return them as a pair.
i also have some faint questions as to why brandon sold this "hold back, breeding project" and yet came down very dramatically on the price. i could be off base but PERHAPS (just a hypothetical situation) he was trying to dump the bump-backed female and got pinched a little?
anywho, both parties could have handled this better BUT i don't think its fair to put the TS on the "do not sell to" list without putting Brandon on the "do not buy from list". they both were VERY eager to show everyone a not too flattering side of themselves.
AND
i for one would not buy from or sell to anyone who places all the emphasis on the money, as both of these two have, without much regard to the animals. speaks volumes on both.
my .02 cents

I don't think you have your apples lined up with your oranges proplerly.



I'd have a tough time refunding for both geckos if it had been me treated as she treated him. I'm not as nice as Kelli. I would have tried to be for a while, but eventually I'd put my foot down, TELL her my terms and then let the chips fall where they may.

She's lucky Brandon is STILL willing to work this out. SHE made a mess of this from the initial post.

I wrote exactly what I meant to.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

i for one would not buy from or sell to anyone who places all the emphasis on the money, as both of these two have, without much regard to the animals. speaks volumes on both.

I don't think the situation started out that way... after all, the buyer DID take the gecko to the vet because she was concerned for it's health and well-being.

I certainly seems like it's all about money at this point, though...

My offer still stands to keep the geckos and administer calcium to the female until they can be safely shipped back to the seller after the Holiday. Hopefully both parties would trust me to do this.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Wilomn,

I do not think that anger/emotion should enter into it. He sold them as a pair and therefore, she is entitled to the refund on the pair.

Whether he likes the way she treated him or not is immaterial in doing business.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

My offer still stands to keep the geckos and administer calcium to the female until they can be safely shipped back to the seller after the Holiday. Hopefully both parties would trust me to do this.

Marcia, that is very kind of you to offer that and I would think both parties would appreciate it. Perhaps face to face with the gecko you might also be able to get a better idea of this hip thing that's going on and provide Brandon with options for her continued care?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

He sold them as a pair and therefore, she is entitled to the refund on the pair.

They were sold as a breeding pair.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Marcia, that is very kind of you to offer that and I would think both parties would appreciate it. Perhaps face to face with the gecko you might also be able to get a better idea of this hip thing that's going on and provide Brandon with options for her continued care?

Absolutely!

 

[Wilomn]

Wilomn,

I do not think that anger/emotion should enter into it. He sold them as a pair and therefore, she is entitled to the refund on the pair.

Whether he likes the way she treated him or not is immaterial in doing business.

There's an old say about catching more bees with honey than vinegar.

Treat me like crap and I'll show you the door. That's just the way it works.

And it wasn't HIM that started off not wanting to take the male back it was HER only wanting to return the female.

I think he should take them both back at full price.

I think if he doesn't he'll suffer for it.

I think she's a pain in the butt with the patience of a gnat.

Somewhere in the first 30 or 40 posts, I think, somewhere in the first few HOURS of this thread, I recommended that both parties take a couple of days off and think about what they really wanted since NOTHING could be done until next week.

SHE couldn't let it go. At this point, since Brandon does not have a history of scumbaggitry, I'm going to give him the benifit of the doubt, figure he made a boo boo and missed the lump, and let HIM take care of HIS customer.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Wilomn,

I do not think that anger/emotion should enter into it. He sold them as a pair and therefore, she is entitled to the refund on the pair.

Whether he likes the way she treated him or not is immaterial in doing business.

Wilomn,

I do not think that anger/emotion should enter into it. He sold them as a pair and therefore, she is entitled to the refund on the pair.

Whether he likes the way she treated him or not is immaterial in doing business.

Of course, I mean in THIS instances. One can always chose not to do business with someone that does not treat them right. The best time to make this decision is before the transaction. If; however, one does make a transaction and is unhappy with the behavor (buyer or seller) then they have the recourse to finalize that transaction and never deal with each other again, or nulify the transaction.

Hurt feelings is not a good reason to try and hold on to as much money as one can (imo).

 

[kmurphy]

Marcia-FYI

I am concerned that the geckos were sold as a "breeding pair", yet the female has never been bred.

Post no - 124

THis specific gecko was bred here last season and was just a awsome colored codom(2006 season). And i can also say with 100% confidence the gecko was perfect when sold, but of course that was a very long time ago. We have a very strict suppliment program here, as well as genetics from around the nation( defect free and the colony is tested monthly for parasites/crypto). I know brandon personally and beleive he will do everything in his power to make this right.

Kevin

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

THis specific gecko was bred here last season and was just a awsome colored codom(2006 season). And i can also say with 100% confidence the gecko was perfect when sold, but of course that was a very long time ago. We have a very strict suppliment program here, as well as genetics from around the nation( defect free and the colony is tested monthly for parasites/crypto). I know brandon personally and beleive he will do everything in his power to make this right.

Who posted this? Pat Cline? Hmmmm... I thought Brandon stated that he had the gecko since it was 14 grams. I guess I'm gonna have to wade through this mess again to find that post.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

OK, here it is. It's from this post:

give them a call and chat with them about what could have caused this,
> > > because this gecko has been in my care since it was 15 grams and I
> > > actually
> > > supply a separate bowl of calcium for all my geckos, to make sure
> > > that they
> > > have enough calcium, plus I lightly sprinkle their food (meal worms,
> > > crickets, roaches) so I don't understand how she could have gotten
> > > MBD.
> > > The gecko has never broken any bones in my care, and considering
> > > the person
> > > who bred her is a friend of mine, im sure he would have told me
> > > about this
> > > before I ever purchased her.

So somebody is lying.

 

[Wilomn]

Good catch Marcia.

I'm taking a time out for a while.

Hopefully when I come back it'll all be over.

Given the rate of maturity this thread has, it may well be dead buried and forgotten by then.

I'll hope so.