I said I was not going to post any more regarding this. With that said, I will not add any "NEW" thoughts of mine, unless like I said before, I am called on directly.
I was asked by Damon late on the night of 12-29 to post all the emails between he and I. I did so, but of course it was all conveniently deleted (on the other site). I thought I should re-post them here as I know Webslave will leave them up.
It might also answer some of the questions you all have regarding different things that have come up recently.
After talking with someone last night for aquite a while about this, he and I felt this would be a good idea.
So here it is just as I copied and paosted it from my computer into an email that I sent someone else yesterday........
BELOW IS A COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT OF EVERY EMAIL THAT WENT BETWEEN DAMON AND I ON DEC. 29/30. I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THE COMPLETE JOKE HE MAKES OF HIMSELF. THEY ARE ONLY EDITED BY TAKING OUT THE NAME OF A BREEDER THAT DAMON REFERS TO! IT WOULD NOT BE MY PLACE TO DEVULGE THE NAME EVEN THOUGH THAT IS WHAT I THINK DAMON WAS HOPING I WOULD DO. THIS TOOK A LONG TIME TO COPY AND PASTE. THERE WERE ORIGINALLY 3 EMAILS HE SENT TO ME AND THERE WERE RESPONSES BETWEEN HE AND I FROM ALL THREE. IT WAS TOUGH TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING AND MAKE SURE I DID NOT MISS ANYTHING AND TO PUT THEM IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER FOR YOU ALL TO READ. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE IT IS ALL HERE. OF COURSE YOU WILL HAVE TO START AT THE BOTTOM AND READ UP. I DID NOT INCLUDE ANY INFO THAT HE SENT ME PERTAINING TO EMAIL TRANSCRIPTS BETWEEN DAMON AND A BREEDER HERE IN THE STATE NOR THE EMAILS BETWEEN DAMON AND A HERPER HERE IN THE STATES.
ENJOY!
Brian Oakley
Phx, AZ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**this is the last email I sent him, I waited for a response and even emailed him twice today (12/30) asking for one. I have heard nothing from him since the last email he sent that is below here**
Damon, if that is what you mean, and it is not a loaded comment, I would be more than happy to chat one day. I come over to the San Diego show once in a while.
I have always been a direct person when speaking. If that is your definition of rude, I am sorry. I just posted on the BOI and the Burm Forum that I am done. All I ask in return is not post something that would make me want to come and respond......in other words, something about me. I truly do look forward to seeing the truth. If it comes out in your favor I will be the first to email you.
Again, like I have said and I truly hope you can see this after you go through it all again, I have not taken sides. I was direct to Thomas, yes. I was direct to you, yes. I have not tried to make myself look good. The matters at hand are not about me so how could I?
I really think, even though you may feel differently now, that if you go back and re-read everything I was not such a bad guy. I personally feel you got mad at me because I would not join you. If it came across that I was "joining" everyone else, then fine. I have said this from email #1, I call things like I see them. I still say the best thing for you to do if you want people to believe anything you say is to post YOURSELF. Don't have someone else do it. It makes you look like you are a coward, Damon. I mean no disrespect by that. Hopefully you can see where I am coming from.
Lastly, I cannot control everyone else. I will though, do what I have to in order to make sure that I am not made out to be a liar regarding our emails. You know as well as I do that I have been truthful all day long with what you and I spoke about.....have I not?
I am not sure what else I can say, but hopefully you will understand my points.
I will look for your response to this and then I am going to bed. I am DEAD tired.
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 2:28 AM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: RE: The facts.... (kingsnake
)
Well,.. now that we are all friendly again,... I'll tell you what,.. I'll
take your advice. I'll go by the name Damon now. And when I meet you, which
I have every intention of doing one day, I will look you in the eye and say,
"Hi, it's me, Damon,... nice to finally meet you." Nice, huh? Does it work
for you? Works for me. I can see it perfectly in my mind's eye.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: The facts.... (kingsnake
)
>Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:18:16 -0700
>
>There you go. Please show me an example in any of this where I have spoke
>to you in the manner you have.
>Damon, I have yet to accuse you of anything. I DID ask a question about
>jail in an email, but that was it. I asked because that is what I heard
>prior to Ritchie getting involved. My policy is that I go back to the
>person and ask them. The only time my "tone" changed was when you decided
>to insult my intelligence. That you also apologized for and that is fine.
>I was not looking for that, but I respect it.
>I have no clue how it will all turn out.
>I cannot change anything that has happened today. I can learn from it
>though. I do not like to be in conflict like this and for that I am sorry.
>Like I have said many times, you can hate me. That is your right. I have
>done nothing other than tell a young man in N.C. (or was it S.C.?) to make
>sure he learns from this before he puts his kneck on the line. I never
>attacked him and like I said, I even commended him for it.
>I read over and over what you sent to me. I really wish I did not have it,
>but I can honestly say I understand why you sent it. I still believe
>(maybe
>I am being ignorant) that nowhere does it say that "*****" did something to
>you.
>The animals you got are quite a unfortunate thing. I would not wish it on
>anyone.
>I am not looking for a friend in you Damon. You would not give one the
>chance anyway unless they were to take your word as gospel. I do think
>that
>what Ritchie is digging up is interesting, but that is it. I have no
>opinion on the dealings between you and "****". I do not know enough about
>them to make one. All I said all day long is that you should go by your
>name. That if you wanted to make a name for yourself that it might be best
>if you used Damon at this point. More people know you as Brian and that
>may
>or may not hurt you. Who knows.
>I wish you and your snakes the best and like you said, hopefully it will
>all
>come to an end soon.
>Be good,
>Brian
>
>Brian Oakley
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 2:10 AM
>To:
[email protected]
>Subject: RE: The facts.... (kingsnake
)
>Go *uck yourself Brian. You've been a backstabbing son of a *itch all day
>long and now you will have to cope with things as they unfold. I don't care
>what you post when or where as every time you post you make even less sense
>and it thus helps to prove my point. Here's the deal, I don't like little
>schitzoid bastards like you that flip from one mood or opinion to the other
>with no rhyme or reason. Like I said, I will post cordially to you
>regarding
>reptiles and retile related issues, but the fact of the matter is,... I do
>not like you one bit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**I sent the below email to Damon after a post he made on the Burm Forum late last night. I do not have a copy of it to put in here, but this was my response.**
> >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> >Subject: RE: The facts.... (kingsnake
)
> >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:54:05 -0700
> >
> >Damon,
> >I will tell you what. I will not say another word on Kingsnake OR on the
> >BOI. I WILL read what it has to say as I am curious to the outcome of
>,all
> >this. I truly wish that all parties involved did not have to go through
> >this. I cannot be to blame as it all started ,you know as well, long
>ago
> >before I posted today. It came up on Bob Clarks Forums, Kingsnake, etc.
>I
> >will post this email for everyone to see so everyone knows what I said
>and
> >so I can be a man of my word.
> >I have not called you names, I have not insulted your intelligence. This
> >all came from you. You contacted me today and I was amazed as to why you
> >picked me. I understand that you want people on your side. I also wish
> >that you would believe I am not on ANY SIDE. I have NOTHING vested in
>any
> >of this. At this point I am sorry that I got involved as I did not want
>to
> >spend my day sitting here at my computer typing all day on forums,
>emails,
> >etc.
> >You can hate me if you want. You can call me a liar if you want. I have
> >told no lies and I have posted the emails as you and I both have record
>of
> >minus a particular name. Copies of emails taken right from the file I
>have
> >them saved in do not lie. I am not and never will be a liar. There is
>one
> >thing I stand by and that is my word.
> >Again, I will not post again on any forum. With that said, in order for
>me
> >to hold up to my end of the deal, I ask you not to post anything about me
> >that would make me respond. I will not go and let something be said
> >without
> >speaking to the topic if it should arise.
> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:46:30 -0700
>
go read the boi, i am done
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:43 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
Waiting for what exactly? Sorry about the wisecrack, but it gets very
frustrating trying over and over to explain why things are the way they are.
I'm not trying to cause an argument with you. Nor am I trying to con or
manipulate you. I just want the truth to be known. Isn't there some law
enforcement website where it can be looked up who ripped off Prehistoric? I
think if I can just squash that one lie that none of the other stuff will
matter. And by the way, I don't know Whitefeather, nor have I ever met him,
spoke with him, emailed or posted to him. I don't know why Richie said that.
He seems extremeity set on destroying me and my credibility there and he
doesn't even know me. Anyways,... take it easy. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:19:20 -0700
>
> thanks, I was waiting for that
>
>Brian Oakley
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:20 PM
>To:
[email protected]
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Hey Brian,
> As usual you are missing many points. Not the least of which is that I
>DON'T CARE EITHER. If I did I would maybe be taking lengths to figh it. But
>I really don't care other than that lies are being told about me. I could
>care less about the name thing. But even a guy like you has to see the
>pointlessness of me going on there and saying, "I didn't burguralize
>Prehistoric Pets". It would not be accepted by anyone. That is a biased MOB
>there my friend. So for that I simply wait for Jay Brewer to post the real
>name of the guy that stole his stuff.
> As for me, I never went to jail over any theft. That's absurd. When I
>sold my remaining sick snakes it was all to a couple of guys that knew they
>were sick and were buying them CHEAP. When I got out of the business, I
>literally dropped out for a little over a decade. When I saw all the new
>morphs a few years ago I decided to try to get back into the game. (Gods, I
>feel like I am trying to explain evolution to a mushroom). And something
>else you are not getting,.. I never said that I thought "****" tried to kill
>my
>snakes. Never said that. I only said that I bought a lot of snakes with
>problems and got some VERY expensive missexed males and wondered if the
>missexing was deliberate. How in the world can ANYONE missex a 3,500
>snake??
>Let alone THREE!! No,.. "****" had nothing to do with what happened to my
>colonies in the late 80's. I was told by confidants that Wes and Jay Brewer
>had orchestrated it. But I seriously doubt that Wes had anything to do with
>the "orchestrating" as he seems too dumb for that. But anyways,.. that's
>the
>past and the past remains the past.
> And I don't have a "sob story". I don't care what happens to the Brian
>or
>Damon names. I couldn't care less. But I DO care if my friends and
>associates think I'm a thief. Man dude,.. get a clue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:48:06 -0700
> >
> >Listen Damon, you emailed me first. I never got hold of you and asked
>for
> >all the emails you have. So your remark of saying "don't email me
>anymore"
> >is very silly.
> >Damon, I have some of this figured out about you. You want people to
> >believe you and that is fine. The only part that is not fine is if they
>do
> >not jump on your wagon they are suddenly "bad guys" so to speak. I have
> >asked plenty of people to read what I have said. Those people who KNOW
>me
> >and how I approach things. My views are FAR FROM biased. This is
>turning
> >into the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.
> >I am sorry I cannot be on your side 100% at this point. Like I said it
> >might come out that you are 100% correct, it might not. We will see.
>Why
> >don't you just post all the stuff you have like you said you were.
>Damon,
> >I
> >do not care. I think THAT is what bothers you most.....I DO NOT CARE. I
> >have NOTHING TO GAIN Damon. Are we speaking the same language here?
> >You know how the BOI works. If people come and tell their side and it
>all
> >sounds the same yet the other party says NOTHING, what is a human mind to
> >think? Why don't you grab a hold of your balls, get an account with
>Fauna
> >and go post all this stuff you have to say....AND DO IT YOURSELF!!!!!!
> >like
> >you said yourself, you have nothing to lose now..is this true or just a
>sob
> >story for Damon?
> >I appreciate the fact that you are trying to share what you have. This
> >does
> >not tell me that it is true though. Please tell me where Bob Clark said,
> >you are right Damon, I tried to kill off your stock. DIDN'T HAPPEN. Did
> >you really sell off your $hit or did you lose it/sell it to spend time in
> >jail? Are you going to tell the WHOLE story or just the part that makes
> >YOU
> >LOOK GOOD?
> >As far as you saying I am trying to make myself look good. I do not have
> >to. I am not the one that has been up on every forum in the reptile
>world.
> >I have NEVER had someone mad at me for ANYTHING in this industry. So I
>do
> >not have to say ANYTHING to make myself look good, I just do it for
>myself
> >with my ever day actions. My actions speak louder than any
>words....yours
> >would to if you gave it a try.
> >Funny thing is Damon, everything I have been told today is coming true.
> > I was told that you would/will be all cool until I do not agree/support you
> >100%.............GOD I LOVE THE TRUTH!
> >NOTHING TO GAIN, NOTHING TO LOSE,
> >Brian Oakley
> >
> >Brian Oakley
> >Phoenix, Arizona
> >
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
> >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 7:35 PM
> >To:
[email protected]
> >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> >You sure do post a lot in the thread concerning me and never post
>anything
> >in my favor that is revealed to you for a guy "just speaking his
>thoughts"
> >at random. Plus there is a hint of bias against me in nearly every post.
> >You
> >also egg Richie on even though he is just repeating unproven lies about
>me.
> >None of it is true. I'm not overly bothered by any of this, it can't get
> >any
> >worse than it already is and my business really won't be affected as I
> >don't
> >sell under Brian Smith. But I just can't stand it when I believe in
>someone
> >to be honest and I am misled. It has happened to me so many times in the
> >past two years that I am just distraught. And the reason why I had Thomas
> >post that statment was to try to point out to the forum that he doesn't
> >realize what he is getting himself into. I warned him days ago to stay
> >clear
> >of it. That he would be dragged down too by association. I never once
>asked
> >him to post anything on my behalf except the statement which was intended
> >to
> >clear him. The same with my friend Sybella. I advised her to not post
>too.
> >I
> >urge you to have them forward you my emails practically begging them to
>not
> >ruin their own names by defending me. They did it anyways. And when
>Thomas
> >kept posting and I saw what was happening,. what I knew was going to
> >happen,. I gave him the statement to post so that maybe he could be left
> >alone. Other than that I never intended to get involved with the thread.
>To
> >try to defend oneself against a lying mob is pointless and your
>statements
> >end up being disected and used against you. Just like Richie using what
> >happened to me 15 years ago with my present day colony. There is no
> >connection between the two. Yet folks that have a biased view will always
> >find a way to discredit you when their mind is set and unalterable.
> > And the reason why I urge you to email Jay Owens is because this way
> >you
> >can hear the TRUTH. Hello! Reality to Brian Oakley! The guy hates my
>guts,
> >but I think he will shoot straight with you and admit that all that has
> >been
> >done to me is only because of what I already told you. Please. Ask him.
> >Other than that Brian,. if you do not intend to seek out the truth from
>the
> >only ones that know it, please do not bother emailing me any more. I have
> >no
> >time for non-productive pursuits. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> > >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:03:36 -0700
> > >
> > >I am not up there making you look worse. I have not called out names
> > >towards you or anything. Damon, how hard is this. Something appeared
>on
> > >the BOI, I post my thoughts as I see it. I cannot beg you to believe
>me
> > >nor
> > >will I. You will think what you wish and that is fine too, I respect
> >that.
> > >What is wrong with me waiting to see what the "end result" is on this.
> > >Hell
> > >if I am wrong I am wrong. With that said, I cannot be wrong because I
> >have
> > >not come out and said ANYWHERE that you have done what people are
>saying
> > >you
> > >have.
> > >I have spoke to Thomas (only on the BOI) regarding him posting for you.
> >I
> > >said he was a heck of a guy for doing so. I DID say he should be
> >careful.
> > >Nothing wrong with that.
> > >I have said you should come out and speak for yourself rather than
>having
> > >someone else do it for you. Do you really think your curability is
> >gaining
> > >ground by not coming there and speaking your mind? You know as well as
>I
> > >do
> > >that it does not.
> > >Why should I email Dr. Owens? What is he going to tell me?
> > >
> > >Brian Oakley
> > >Phoenix, Arizona
> > >
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
> > >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 6:51 PM
> > >To:
[email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > >
> > >
> > >Take the time to email who I suggested you email. Hopefully they will
>be
> > >honest with you. If you hear it right from the horse's mouths then you
> >know
> > >it's true. This whole entire mess has all stemmed from a disagreement
> >with
> > >Owens nearly 2 years ago, that escalated to tremendous proportions. I
> >wish
> > >it never had. Now all this slander is happening to a good guy that has
> > >never
> > >done anything to anybody short of sending an email saying, "I'm gonna
> >kick
> > >your ass." for them harrassing me to begin with. If you go back to
>early
> > >2002 in the Bob Clark forums you'll see that I was never looking for
> > >trouble
> > >to begin with. But whatever guy. Believe what you want to believe. Then
> >you
> > >can post how you have never been in the BOI and make yourself look
>better
> > >by
> > >making me look worse. Good idea, huh? Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> > > >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> > > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > > >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:37:26 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Damon,
> > > >There are two sides to everything. I am hearing your side and
>reading
> > >the
> > > >other. I too want to know the truth about the deals now that I have
> >the
> > > >info I do. You can believe what you wish about me, I cannot change
> >that.
> > > >I
> > > >look at the whole picture, both sides, and make an opinion. At this
> > >point
> > > >all I can say to you that I dislike are the following.
> > > >1. You cannot speak for yourself on the BOI
> > > >2. You get someone across the darn country to speak for you
> > > >3. You need to use your own name if you want any chance of clearing
> >your
> > > >name.
> > > >Take it for what it is worth, I have told you numerous times that I
> >have
> > > >ZERO to gain and ZERO to lose.
> > > >That is that.
> > > >
> > > >Brian Oakley
> > > >Phoenix, Arizona
> > > >
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
> > > >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 6:35 PM
> > > >To:
[email protected]
> > > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >No Brian, you're one sided. It's in all of your most recent posts. I
> > >don't
> > > >believe you. But if I am wrong and you really are only interested in
> >the
> > > >truth email "****" (****@****.com) and ask him to tell you everything
> > >about
> > > >me and doing business with me from day one. There were times when I
> >sent
> > > >him
> > > >over 10 thousand dollars in the mail without ever seeing the snakes I
> >was
> > > >buying. I trusted blindly then because I believed in him and his
>name.
> >I
> > >am
> > > >only cautious now because all that has happened in the last two
>years.
> > > >Everyone I have truted have stabbed me in the back one way or
>another.
> > >The
> > > >bottom line is that I am a good damn person and I don't deserve any
>of
> > > >this.
> > > >I urge you to write Jay Owens too and ask him if I didn't only get
> >banned
> > > >from those other sites that Richie mentioned because Owens and his
> > >cronies
> > > >followed me everywhere I went and got me banned by slandering me and
>my
> > > >business. They were utterly ruthless. They even tried to do it on
> > >kingsnake
> > > >but thankfully Jeff Barringer doesn't tollerate things like that and
> >they
> > > >simply deleted it. After getting me kicked off and banned from
>Morelia
> > >and
> > > >SSnakes.com all these people emailed me and asked me how I liked my
>New
> > > >Years present. (It was Jan 1st of 2003 one year ago. Coincidence?
>Check
> > >the
> > > >dates) I don't know what else to say to you. I honestly believe in my
> > >heart
> > > >that you are biased and won't absorb any of this any more than you
> > >absorbed
> > > >anything else I wasted my time sending. And the reason, like I
>already
> > >told
> > > >you was because at first I actually thought you were a good person
>and
> > >were
> > > >impartial. I was wrong. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> > > > >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> > > > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > > > >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:21:02 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Damon,
> > > > >I call it like I see it and I told you that. ALL I said to Thomas
>is
> > > >that
> > > > >he should use this as a valuable tool and learn form it. Since you
> >are
> > > > >reading the BOI, you will also see that I commended him for being a
> > > >friend
> > > > >(more or less). I have nothing to gain nor do I have anything to
> >lose.
> > > >I
> > > > >do not know you, therefore I cannot have anything against you. I
> >spend
> > > > >time
> > > > >on the BOI and post things the way I see them.
> > > > >
> > > > >I question why you sent me everything you did. Why me? Why not
>one
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > >others?
> > > > >Anyway, Damon, the best thing you could do is start using YOUR
>name,
> > > >start
> > > > >posting YOURSELF and make some good things happen.
> > > > >At this point, I do not know the truth, but like I tell my son, the
> > >truth
> > > > >always comes out.
> > > > >Why would you have Thomas post the last thing he did , when you
>tell
> >me
> > > > >that
> > > > >you are going to let the Shot hit the fan in less than 24 hours.
> >Which
> > > >is
> > > > >it?
> > > > >You can believe what you wish, but I am just a guy in the snake
> > >industry
> > > > >just like many others.
> > > > >
> > > > >Brian Oakley
> > > > >Phoenix, Arizona
> > > > >
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
> >From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
> >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 6:16 PM
> >To:
[email protected]
> >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
Brian,
It seems I misjudged you in a very severe way. At first you seemed
impartial and unbiased but it is becoming abundantly clear that you are very
much against me and all of your posts are begining to demonstrate this.
You're all over Thomas telling him that he is making a mistake by speaking
on my behalf, yet you don't know me either. Just shoot straight with me
here. Why are you too in this campaign to make me look bad? Just be honest
with me. Is one of your friends one of the people I had a problem with in
the past? I'll tell you one last time, I have never wronged anyone. I have
never stolen anything from anyone. I am going to file suit against Richie
Luna and Al Guetzkow for stating that I ripped off Prehistoric pets. It is
slander and it's against the law. All they are doing is perpetuating a lie,
an evil false rumor. And because of what I sent to you you know why things
happened and the facts behind them yet all you post is damaging things
toward me. Just please tell me why. What have I done to you personally?
There must be something for you to be this way. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Oakley [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:45 PM
To: Brian Smith
Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
I will be watching.
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:45 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
That's fine Brian, I understand what you're saying. It's clear that you are
missing a point or two somewhere, but none of that really matters. Watch
what unfolds over the next 24 hours. I think it may amaze you. Take care and
try not to believe that I am a bad guy. I'm really not. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:30:35 -0700
>
>Brian, it is a small community. You know this as well as I do. You could
>blame me since I know someone who knows someone who knows "****" and "****".
>
>Brian Oakley
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
[email protected]
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:32 PM
>To:
[email protected]
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
I directly blame "****" (not "****") for this because these two guys are his
friends. He is aware of what they are doing here, opening old wounds, with
old issues. These things are in the past, they should not be brought up. I
am not a bad person. I only do good business. Why ruin my business now?
Isn't it obvious to you that this is a personal animosity? And shouldn't
this stuff just be forgotten if I am not only not like that, but was
provoked to begin with? Think about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:21:55 -0700
>
>I think it is fine you feel this way. I do ask you this though. How can
>you blame "****" or "****" for this latest thread about you. I just do not see
>it. I think the name thing has allot to do with it Damon, I really do.
>Your credibility is lost by that simple choice you made.
>I ask you again, are you reading the BOI? I have made some valid points
>that nobody cares to respond to.
>I think I said this, I call it like I see it. I may not always be right,
>but I think I am a pretty logical person.
>
>Brian Oakley
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:10 PM
>To:
[email protected]
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
That's fine Brian,
I can't twist your arm and make you believe me. But for the record, at
the time I cut that deal with Owens there were threads JUST like the one on
BOI right now and as soon as we arranged the deal Owens deleted them
immediately and until now has not allowed anyone to post badly about me.
And whether or not "****" did anything to me intentionally or not (I'm
leaning toward not) it still happened and I got a lot of sick and misexed
snakes. It just shouldn't have happened. And when it did he only fixed
things while I was spending big money. As soon as I stopped buying he
stopped fixing.
Incidently, I just emailed "****" and "****" this. I thought you might be
interested in seeing it as it all ties in:
You could have stopped it. You didn't. I even saw you in there following the
thread at the same time Brennan was in there, so don't deny that you are
full aware of what I am talking about. I have tried to leave this issue and
you and your bunch alone for over a year now and yet it still is
resurfacing. As far as I am concerned you did not hold up your end of the
bargain. But it's probably not too late.
Here's the deal: If I don't see you putting an end to this by noon
tomorrow (Tues 30th) I will post on the BOI not only all of our emails
concerning making the deal with you, which you clearly agreed to honor,
where you agreed to call off your people and no longer harrass me and spread
lies and I agreed to not post all my problems with Bob's snakes, including
several detailed necropcy reports and ALL of "****" and my own email
corrospondences concerning each sick or malformed or missexed snake, which I
have saved every word of. If I don't see any end to this new onslaught
against me by noon tomorrow I have a very nicely orchestrated post ready to
go that I have been working on for the last two days. I am sending a copy of
this email to "****" so that he can not only see our emails where we arranged
this deal but so that he knows it is in your hands as to whether or not I
unload this incredibly revealing post.
It's entirely up to you "****" where and when this bull<font color=red>[bleep]</font> ends. As for me,
I have nothing left to lose. My name is utterly destroyed and as far as I am
concerned it's virtually over. Damon
Happy herping to you Brian. I have nothing against you and I
realize you are virtually impartial and unbiased in your posts. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:51:35 -0700
>
>I am not sure that "it worked" or people just decided to leave you alone.
>Damon, I do not know what is true and what is not. I hate to have this
>selfish attitude, but it does not affect me.
>Like I stated on the BOI, I have to problems with the post regarding you.
>1. You go under a fake name in all your snake dealings on the net.
>2. Some little Thomas guy who does not even know you, by his own words,
>but
>basically types everything you apparently have said on different forums
>etc.
>Why does he have to speak for you. He has NOTHING to offer other than
>saying what you would probably say had you typed it yourself.
>As far as me. I have never lied, cheated, stole, etc. in my life. I will
>tell it like I see it and that is just me.
>I just do not see why people would do what you claim. Bob is BIG as far as
>breeding goes. Nothing against you, but I doubt you have the money to even
>make a dent in his sales. Why would he not do this to the Baldagos, NERD,
>Barkers, Ralph Davis, Dan and Colette Sutherland, and many more. Why would
>he pick you? There are so many people that produce huge numbers of snakes,
>and HIGH END ONES TOO, I just do not see it. You bought some JCP, Bloods,
>some high end retics, and whatever else. THat is not going to hurt him if
>you reproduced the same.
>Brian Oakley
>Phoenix, Arizona
>
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:38 PM
>To:
[email protected]
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>
>
>You seem like an intelligent guy. Can't you see how it all ties in? I am
>divulging this to you because Owens could have prevented these guys from
>slamming me in the BOI. He didn't. He didn't uphold his end of the bargain.
>Plus, people like you see what they are posting and have no evidence of any
>more of the complex story behind it all. Here is almost the entire story
>all
>wrapped up tightly in three emails. Plus,. I couldn't get them to leave me
>alone a year ago so I finally used the only leverage I had. What I knew
>about "**** ****" snakes. It worked until now, which is testiment to the
>truth behind it. And it's still somewhat working as Owens hasn't joined in.
>But I can see that he will join in the moment he hears I am spilling my
>guts
>about the truth. First he'll say I'm lying. Then he'll say I'm delusionary.
>So don't you see? I had to tell someone and you seemed like a reasonable
>enough person with credible influence. Maybe I misjudged. In any event it
>has to be known. I can't just sit idley by while all these one sided lies
>are told about me. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:23:30 -0700
> >
> >Damon,
> >I do not care what the final decision is. That has to be done by you. I
> >see your analogy with "Brian Smith" and a "screen name". I see the only
> >difference is that people do not live their lives by their "screen name".
> >Out of curioiusity, why did you send me all this? I ask because in the
> >emails you sent me between you and Jay you said something along the lines
> >that you would not devulge the info. Seems to me that you did so by
> >sending
> >it to me. Not that I care, that is a problem you and "****" or you and "****"
> >have to work out. Just seemed odd.
> >
> >Brian Oakley
> >Phoenix, Arizona
> >
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
> >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:19 PM
> >To:
[email protected]
> >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> >
> >
> >I understand what you're saying,. but honestly, what is the difference
> >between a fake name and say, a common screen name, like, BurmEmperor?
> >Especially since EVERYONE knows Brian Smith doesn't exist. But you know
> >what? If you really feel strongly about it, I'll tell you what,... I'll
>go
> >make a new screen name with my name in it. Is that what you want? I'm
> >telling you, I have nothing to hide and have done no one any wrong. Like
>I
> >explained to "****" early on when I was first buying new stock from him, I
> >just
> >didn't want my old competitors to know I was getting back into the
>business
> >as I was severely sabatoged and run out of business in 1989-91. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
> > >To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
> > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:07:08 -0700
> > >
> > >I would disagree Damon. Like I said, everyone knows who you are so it
> > >would
> > >not be starting over for you. I just think honesty is best and IN MY
> > >OPINION, going under a different name is not honest. With that said, I
> > >cannot speak of you personally as I do not know you. I just look at it
> > >from
> > >the outside in.
> > >
> > >Brian Oakley
> > >Phoenix, Arizona
> > >
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
> > >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 1:07 PM
> > >To:
[email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
> > >
> > >
> > >Simple, over the last two years Brian Smith has become a recognizable
> > >personality/entity. So rather than trying to create a new foundation
>for
> >an
> > >unknown name, I just keep it. I really didn't think it was a big deal.
> > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Re: kingsnake
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:01:00 -0700
I have no reason to share this with those people. I do ask one question Damon. If/Since everyone knows who you really are, why do you till go under "Brian Smith"? That DOES baffle me. I do not know the details of what I am reading other than hearing bits and pieces.
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:59 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Fw: Re: kingsnake
Brian, feel free to share this with anyone that you feel may need to better
understand this whole situation. I think it would be pointless to waste this
effort on slackass or realvenum as they are so severely biased. Again, read
from the bottom up. Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The below email was sent to me and I never responded on this thread so I do not have the wtitten version of the "from"/"to" that would be generated. it was sent at 12:56pm on 12-29
Brian,
Yes, I understand completely. You seem very reasonable and I know that
you are only going by what you see there now, but there is a LOT more to
this story and when it comes down to it I am in fact the victim. A lot of
these other people, like Realvenum and Slackass don't even know that they
were in effect merely used by "****" in his personal vendetta against me that
started over a year and a half ago. And furthermore I don't understand why
they are still mad about this. If you look at the date stamp of my email to
Slackass it was August of 2002. Why is he carrying such a serious grudge
after so long, I have to wonder. I never did anything to him. I never
contacted him after that date. I have tried to leave this mess behind and to
go on with my life and my business and to just help folks in other, more
friendly forums. Yet they are still following me around and digging up this
old dirt. A mess which they in fact started by initially ganging up on me so
intensely that I finally blew a gasket and told them all off. Owens is quite
good at what he does. I see him doing it to others quite frequently. He
needles and ridicules until the poor sap blows and threatens to kick his ass
and then lables them assclowns. I notice that he does this whenever someone
has a considerable collection or breeding stock. It's like as if it disturbs
him that anyone else is getting any attention for their animals. He has to
be top dog with top billing. Oh well, like I said, I'm done with this mess.
I'm not really following the topic, persay, but friends of mine keep
emailing me all the latest developments as they unfold.
Oh, and Thomas is really a good kid. I never asked him to defend me and I
really cringed when I heard that he was. I knew he would get ripped up for
doing so and now I regret that he ever took part. He's just one of the many
upstart breeders that I have been helping out over the last year plus with
hundreds of emails and posts with tips on cheap and efficient ways to be a
successful breeder. He really doesn't "know me". But he has known my
generous and kind side for over a year via email and post. He's young and
may not realize that someone can be nice but also be unliked by others and
unfortunately he is prone to posting without thinking. My only regret is
that he is being punished for something he genuinely believed based on a
year of positive interaction with me and knowing the whole story that you
are currently reading. He has known this from day one.
Take care, Damon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: "Brian Oakley" <
[email protected]>
>To: "Brian Smith" <
[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: The facts.... (kingsnake
)
>Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:35:25 -0700
I am reading the first email now. I would like to say that I got involved in the post on the BOI because I felt that "Thomas" was merely quoting everything you said on forums he has read VS. his own experience. Are you following the thread on the BOI?
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Smith [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:35 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: FW: The facts.... (kingsnake
)
Brian, this was a post I posted in reply to a post by Shawn DeBord after he
asked me if I had burguralized Prehistoric pets. This after Owens posted the
lie on Kingsnake. All this just hours or days before I finally told Owens,
hey, leave me alone or I post all necropcy results and stuff about Bob's
sick snakes. Again, feel free to post anything as I have nothing to hide and
I am basically done with this whole mess. Damon
>Posted by: BrianSmith at Mon Oct 27 15:32:54 2003 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email
>Message ]
>
>Hey, I don't blame you one bit. I would be the exact same way. But you see,
>this was part of the genius of the assassination campaign. To mix in a dose
>of truth to a pack of lies to lend the lies merrit. The only truth in the
>whole thing is that my real name is not Brian Smith. But this was never
>intended to decieve anyone, or to "hide behind a false name". (not from
>fellow herpers, anyway). In fact, it was never my intention to use the name
>for all this posting and whatnot. All that just got carried away. Here are
>the facts:
>
>When I first got back into this business a couple of years ago, it was
>after taking a decade long break from it. Prior to 1991 I was a fairly
>large breeder of pythons and boas and to a lesser extent, smaller species
>too. When I first began producing a great deal of offspring and selling
>them relatively cheap, it infurriated a lot of the pet store owners that
>were well known for reptiles. One of them was Slither City, owned by a
>slime ball named Wes. I'm sure that many of you reading this can guess one
>of the other reptile based pet shops here in So Cal that was involved in
>shutting me down. Concerted efforts were made to put me out of business at
>all costs since my inexpensive offspring were threatening their retail
>market. At first it was annoying things like the fish and game and animal
>control being called on me to try to legally shut me down. When this didn't
>work sick snakes were sold to me by annonymous third parties to infect my
>breeding colonies. This eventually took its toll and worked. My snakes got
>sick and died and I couldn't keep up with the vet bills and nothing was
>working anyway (antibiotics). I finally sold out and just gave up.
>
>So a couple of years ago, when I decided to get back into the game, I
>remembered all of this and decided to try to not let it be known that it
>was me that was getting back into this. All of the treachery and ruthless
>sabatoge I wanted to avoid. So I went to a breeder that I always felt I
>could trust. One that I had always felt was honorable, trustworthy and
>good. And I explained how I wanted to get back into this business big, but
>wanted to remain annonymous during the building years. I explained what the
>pet store guys did and wanted to avoid a repeat of that. He said he
>understood and had no problem with it. Little did I realize then that he
>was best friends with one of my mortal enemies (two now).
>
>A few months into buying morphs and building stock I lost a very big albino
>laby that I bought sick and tried to save. I spent over 700 at the vet and
>she died the night after I got her. So I put her skin on ebay to try to
>recoup my losses. One of the people in a certain reptile forum saw the skin
>auction and posted about it and criticized it and criticized the seller
>(me) as barbaric and all things bad. So I went to defend this. Try to keep
>in mind that I never intended to post in any forums. I was pulled into this
>one with the need to explain the situation and that I loved the snake, if
>even for a day and what had transpired to form the event.
>
>Things were bumpy at first, but I eventually smoothed it out and I found
>that I liked posting and sharing thoughts and info. But I had a tremendous
>personality conflict with one of the moderators of that site. We had
>serious words, it got very heated and ugly and I honestly thought that
>because I was spending untold thousands with the breeder that owned that
>site that he would back me up. I couldn't have been further from the truth.
>Not only did he not back me up, he told his friend (the moderator) all my
>real information (name, etc). So the moderator guy thought it would just be
>the most wonderful thing to post all my information to discredit me, and
>somewhere in the mix to implant a rumor that I was a theif and had ripped
>people off, including but not limited to a burguralry of Prehistoric Pets.
>To give him credit, this was quite a masterful stroke and it did damage me
>a bit. I lost a few sales and some close associates that I had built and
>known under the name that I never intended to post under in the first
>place. At first I couldn't believe all this and I was baffled by the sheer
>ruthlessness of it. But in retrospect it all makes perfect sense. This
>moderator guy is a breeder too. And I am future competition. It is the old
>days revisited. And so it bagan to make a LOT of sense. Then, I saw the
>same thing done repeatedly to anyone else that popped up that had/has a lot
>of snakes and had obvious intentions of doing some serious breeding or
>introducing something new (morph-wise). That's why I raised an eyebrow when
>I read the Whitefeather assassination. It made me wonder just how much lie
>was melded to little bits of truth in order to take down a potential
>competitor. If you are curious to see the lengths that this moderator guy
>goes to to make one look bad, just go read the thread on the BOI. It
>reminds me of an overly aggressive little poodle that won't let go of a
>pant leg.
>
>As for me,. I'm not too concerned about myself anymore. I know a lot of
>people already that know the story and are hip to these guy's undermining,
>discrediting ways. Sure, I'm still angry about what was done to me. And I
>do have every intention of setting things right. I have nothing but time.
>And I haven't lost, nor will I. You see, the only way I can lose is if
>someone comes through my window while I'm asleep and murders me. Otherwise
>I am very much alive and getting stronger and paybacks are way cool. In the
>meantime I am joining forces with others that have been wronged and are
>currently being done wrong the same way I was. I could have easily done it
>alone, but hey, more strength in numbers, right?
>
>The bottom line Shaun (and anyone else reading this) is that I promise you
>that the reptile world will be a much nicer place in a couple of short
>years.
>
>My real name is Damon.
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected]
