mckelish
New member
On November 11th 2012 myself, Maegan Kelish, and partner, Heather Emmons, listed our collection of ball pythons up for sale or trade in a few groups we belong to on Facebook. We started to purchase ball pythons a year ago and soon after became interested in breeding. At the time spending $500+ on a snake morph seemed crazy to us so we started with basic morphs with the intentions to breed them for the more expensive morphs we were interested in.
After a year we had several ball pythons all of different morphs. As we were researching the ball python community we became to be discouraged. We had realized we made mistakes buying to many males, too young, and everything being single gene. Now spending $500+ on a ball python didn’t seem so crazy. We decided to do a “practice” breeding so we purchased two normal female ball pythons one from a local reptile shop, and another from a person in the area. We thought that with breeding that would bring back the interest in ball pythons.
In purchasing ball pythons we picked up a few boas and realized we enjoyed keeping the boas more than we did the ball pythons. We preferred the interaction far more and the personalities of the boas. In November Heather and I decided that we would sell and trade the ball pythons we had for boas. I kept back a small handful of ball pythons for myself. Ones I felt attached to and watched grow from hatchlings.
Charles Looney contacted me on Novemeber 12th 2012 via Facebook message in regards to purchasing the two female breeder size ball pythons and a yellow belly hatching female. Charles and I have known each other for about five months through a Facebook herp page based in Pensacola Fl. We have been “friends” on Facebook for the same length of time.
My first personal interaction with Charles was about an Eastern Glass Lizard he had for sale. He sent me his Paypal information and I sent him the payment with the understanding that Heather Emmons would pick the Glass Lizard up on my behalf so I didn't have to pay to have it to be shipped to me. I contacted him on September 30th asking if Heather could pick up the Glass Lizard with no reply. Heather also tried texting him also with no reply.(There are no photos of this so now considered hearsay). I didn't concern myself with the lizard anymore. I wasn't sure when Heather would be coming to visit again and I thought spending $60 on
shipping a $15 lizard was silly. On October 21st Charles contacted me about a Mojave female. On the herp page we belong to I had posted that a Mojave we thought previously to be male popped female. I didn’t post it for sale or trade, just in excitement. Charles messaged me about a possible trade. He wanted to trade a pair of hog island boas. I declined the trade in the hopes to make BELs but inquired to see if he had a large male breeder size ball python that I could purchase. This was shortly after I had picked up the second female ball python on October 12th.
Novemeber 12th Charles messaged me about the two female breeders and the yellow belly female. He again offered the hog island pair for trade. He posted pictures to my page of the babies as well as the father and mother. In the messages back and forth I told him about the mistake on the Mojave. I also said I only interested in the female which he said wouldn’t be worth the shipping. I told him that Heather wanted some time to think about the deal, that she would be coming back into the area for the holidays (8 days later). He said he would want it ASAP. He asked about the weights of the snakes and the word for word reply was; “I cannot get them to stay on the scale for the life of me lol Part of the issue is the scale is too small. I will try again today and send you a pic. The one female I have weighed at 1500 grams before. She has been eating large/med rats every week without a miss. The other female (Heather just reminded me) has a calcium bump on her. That is what I was told when I bought her but looks like a live feeding scar to me. She was sold as a proven breeder, 8 egg clutch. She is a hefty girl. She has been eating every week large/small. I haven't tried to weigh her yet though.”
I told him that I was unsure about the weights, that I had weighed one female at 1500 grams however I felt my scale was too small to weigh the snakes properly. (Since this I have realized I could use a bigger bowl on the scale for larger snake weights.) I also told him about the OTHER female was purchased with a “calcium deposit” that in my opinion was a feed scar. I hadn’t tried to weigh her. After all this information he said he would ship the hog island pair the following day and I would ship my snakes after I received them. I told him I would speak to Heather and let him know what was going on. Spoke to Heather and we agreed shipping would be too complicated. I was only interested in the female hog island and we had never shipped before. I emailed him back saying Heather didn’t want to trade, that there had been an offer to buy the yellow belly outright. I thanked him for his offer and that his snakes were gorgeous looking. He replied the same night saying that okay he would take the het ghost female instead. I replied the following day explaining we were not comfortable shipping, that the person who bought the yellow belly had interest in the females and that if they were still available when Heather was in the area for Thanksgiving they could talk then.
He replied thanks, just let me know and he didn’t mind waiting. This is the last contact I had with Charles Looney about the deal. At this point I told Heather that if she wanted to take them out to Charles and do trades with him that was up to her. If she did I was only interested in the hog island female.
November 17 2012 Heather Facebook messaged Charles asking if he was still interested in trades. Heather told Charles that she was only interested in trading the hog island female and if he wanted to buy the other female for $100 she was willing to do that. Charles said no he was only interested in trading for both and that he had 300 animals and sure they could come to some sort of agreement.
November the 18th Heather asked Charles via Facebook if he had any het pied or sand boas. He replied that he did not have any sand boas. Heather did not reply.
November 19th Charles messaged via Facebook that he did have some het pied stuff. Heather did not respond.
Heather messaged Jessica Daniel via Facebook asking if she would be interested in the ball pythons we had. Jessica and Heather had a conversation about the snakes and Jessica asked Heather to text her pictures of the snakes. Jessica asked for a price all together and separate prices.
Heather sends Jessica pictures of all the snakes with a small description. With the two breeder females she says “Breeder female 1400 grams.” “Breeder female 1600 grams. Calcium deposit on her back. Doesn’t cause issues proven breeder.”) She says she wants the breeder females and inquires how big the het ghost is. Heather tells Jessica “The het ghost is 130 grams. I have two breeder females one weighs 1400 and the other weighs 1600.” Jessica says okay and says she can meet Friday (November 23rd), they agree to meet halfway.
Tuesday November 20th 2012 4:05 pm Charles Facebook messaged her again saying that he was expecting her that day for the trade of the hog island.
Charles text Heather asking what was going on. Heather explained to Charles that she wasn’t in town yet; she had gotten out of town late and was dealing with traffic. She said that she would text him Friday and let him know what was going on.
At 5:09 pm ,twenty minutes after Charles Looney messaged Heather on Facebook saying he was expecting her for the trade of the hog island, Jessica asks for the pictures to be resent to her because she deleted them.
At 5:24 pm Jessica text messages Heather asking for her to resend the pictures of the snakes. Heather resends the pictures. Jessica exclaims she can’t believe how big they are, asks what they eat. Heather says that they eat a med rat. Jessica comments that the female she received from Heather earlier in the year is getting big and calming down. She asks if they can meet up sooner than Friday Heather says she can but she would have to come down to where she is instead of meeting halfway. Jessica says she doesn’t have the money to pay $200 and Heather says she cannot go any lower. Heather makes sure they are still on for Friday and Jessica says they are just received the money early. She again asks for more pictures. Heather says she will tomorrow, she just got into town.
Wednesday November 21st 11:51am Jessica texts Heather for pictures of the snakes. Heather says yes give me a second.
1:49pm Jessica messages again asking for pictures of the snakes. Heather responds at 2:20pm apologizing for the delay and sends new pictures of all the snakes at 2:47pm including a picture of her finger against the snake for size reference. She says great. Heather says they are in a 41 qt tub for a size comparison and Jessica says nice size. Heather texts “Yeah there big for sure. If u have a male that’s ready they will lay eggs for you this year.” “The smaller one of the two though prolly needs another few meals.” Jessica says she can’t wait and makes sure they are meeting up still on Friday. They discuss a meeting spot for meeting up early on Friday because Jessica says she has work.
Thursday November 22nd Heather messaged Jessica asking if they were still meeting up on Friday. They talk about the meeting spot and Jessica says she will see her then.
Friday November 23rd
8:48 am Charles Looney texts Heather says "I really hope you are upfront and honest with john and jessica on the health and feeding records on the snakes. They are good people and friends of mine. I find it very likely at this point you will say what you need to just to make the sale. If there is anything wrong with them you need to be upfront with them so they can make a good decision with all the info. To many shady dealers out there. Do the right thing."
At this point in time Heather still has the snakes in her possession and she is on her way to meet with Jessica and John.
8:48 Heather asks Jessica if Charles is with her.
Jessica says no and asks if he is supposed to be.
9:00 am They meet up and Jessica and her boyfriend John purchase the snakes from Heather. Heather says both Jessica and John took out all of the snakes from their tubs to look them over. Heather says she explained the calcium deposit which we thought was a rat scar. Jessica pushed on it and said it didn’t seem to bother her. Heather pointed out a rub spot where the other snake had rubber her nose a bit. John said it was no big deal, they had snakes that had that too.
10:30 am Heather responds back “Oki Doki” to Charles.
10:46 Charles text messages Heather"Yeah nice lie about me to jessica that we were undecided about a trade. I have all the texts and Fb messages. You are a liar. If I wanted the snakes john and jessica would not have bought them. I told them they could go ahead because they needed them more. I really didn't care but you had to tell one more lie to cover your other lies. Now I am upset. You can lie all you want but now you are trying to twist your dirty deal on me. Trust me I did not need your normals. If I want to pay cash for them I can get quality animals. Trust me everyone will know you are a liar and can't be trusted."”
Heather replies “It honest doesn’t involve you. You didn’t go out of ur way or anything else. Not sure what your so butt hurt about.”
Charles Looney goes on “I have worked hard to build my honest reputation. They knew about every message you sent before they went. You just looked that much more dishonest with you ladt lie. I told you I didn’t care. Just took note you are a liar. But the last lie you told is the one that I am taking personal.”
Heather replies “Sorry you got your feelings hurt. No one lied to you or about you though. Cry to your mom or wife. I am neither of those people so take care.”
Charles Looney goes on a barrage of text messages. “If I cared you would not have been avle to sell them to john and Jessica. They told me 10 times they would not get them. I didn’t care. But you had to lie on me. Yes you lied. Tell the Boi you didn’t lie after I post all of our messages.”
“I’m not mad. What did I lose. Nothing. Its your rep that’s hurting not mine. Just another shady dealer going on the bad guy list.”
11:02 Charles says “I have been doing this for 15 years and I take pride in honesty. I word is good and when I tell the truth about you I will not be doubted.
Heather replies “Over something that doesn’t even involve you”
Charles Looney goes on; “Why don’t you just buck up and tell the truth. You made a deal with me on the female boa. John told me you were trying to sell them to him and he agreed to buy them so I texted you to see what you would say. You said our deal was still on. I said what day. You said ummmmmmm Friday. We got a good laugh out of you going ummm because john already told me you knew you were coming Friday and you tried to make it sound as if you just thought of it.”
“so I told you that I needed to know what day we were trading so I could be available. You told me Friday. Knowing you were going to sell them to someone else. You had me plan on being available Friday. Thankfully we were on to what a liar you are and I didn’t plan my day around it as you tried to have me do. I suppose just to keep me as a back up plan in case your money didn’t come through. All this shows that you will lie to profit off your snakes. “
11:13 am Heather messages Jessica Daniel “You know I’ve tired being nice to you making sure you get good deals and everything but this is to much drama for me. Insane. Hope you enjoy the snakes.”
Jessica replies “what??”
11:15 am Charles says – “You are not to be trusted, You got caught in your lies and now will either have to come clean or attempt to cover it up with countless more lies and end up looking even more of a douch than you already do.”
Heather responds. “I don’t consider snakes sold until money switches hands, You were informed that I would rather have cash, Once again this deal does not involve you any longer when I was on the way to drop them off and you called harassing me I told you that I wasn’t doing it. That I had a better offer. I never agreed to any trade with you.
11:35 Charles Looney says – “You such a douch. Everyone knew what was going on the whole time. Trying to cover lies with more lies. I will tell the truth about you to everyone. Start getting your lies in order.
11:39 am Heather replies to Jessica “I don’t appreciate being called a liar and everything else.”
Jessica replies “Haven’t said anything else to you.”
Heather replies “No but I’m getting harassed behind you and your boyfriend,”
Jessica says “how’s that my fault?”
Heather says “ Well because obviously y’all don’t like getting good deals. My rep is bein threatened for selling to y’all. It’s fine like I said just to much drama involved in all this.”
11:53 am – Charles messages Heather - “Listen you’re a real piece of work. The anorexic snake is on deaths door and the one that looks like it has a chance to survive is a male. You need to refund their money.”
He sends a picture of a male popped snake.
“Lie your way out of this. It’s a male. We have picture evidence. Now what are you going to do.”
“Yes that is a hemi pene.”
12:04 am (4 hours after the initial trade) Jessica sends Heather a picture of a popped male snake. “That somewhat goodlooking one is a male! Wtf we paid for three females that we was told was halthy!”
Heather replies “ Look I’m done dealing with you and with him. The snakes are healthy. I assure you that much. You looked, your boyfriend looked. I sent you tons of pictures. You had the chance to say no. You bought them. That’s it.”
At this point Heather is trying to explain to me what is going on. I call Jessica Daniel myself right after she messages Heather and have a 3:41 conversation with her. I ask her what the heck is going on. She tells me that she wasn’t happy with the snakes. That one is almost dead and the other is a male. That Heather didn’t let them touch the snakes and didn’t explain the bump at all. I tell her fine I know for a fact there is nothing wrong with the snakes and that the one that she is claiming to be a male was probed in front of me at a reptile shop in town. I tell her I will talk to Heather about refunding the snakes and I hang up the phone with her.
I call Heather back and speak to her about the situation. Heather tells me a completely different story about how they pressed on the bump and that they pulled the snakes out of the box to look them over. I tell Heather that I expected her to handle it in whatever way she saw fit.
12:20 pm Charles Looney starts posting pictures of the snakes on a herp page we all belong to with the title "Just posting these pics to establish a timeline for a case of fraud against one of our members." He posted a few pictures of the snake hanging by it’s tail and the snake popped.
12:22 pm Jessica sent Heather a messaged saying that she spoke to me and I told her that they are trading back and they will get their money back.
Heather tells her “That isn’t gonna work. I don’t know what has happened to the snakes since they have been in your care. I know the snakes aren’t skinny. You had the chance to look at them. You could have said something and you didn’t. I sent you multiple pictures and gave you the chance to see them before purchasing them, You agree they were fine when you gave me the money.”
1:51 pm Jessica says “So u aint gna make it right?”
Heather responses “I don’t feel I have anything to make right.”
“I seem pictures Charles posted. The snake appears dead? Did y’all kill it?”
Jessica replies “No she isn’t dead she is exactly how we got her.”
At this point Heather and I are still talking about how to fix the situation. We message a few different people who have more experience in the industry than we do about how to fix the situation. Our concern is the well being of the snakes. We also were concerned that by giving a full refund we were admitting that the snakes were sick. Seeing how We had ever reason to believe that Charles felt the need to fulfill some sort of personal vendetta. We were completely in over our heads in this situation. Charles is posting how awful and wrong we are on every site possible. We tried to ignore it as long as possible but eventually we both lose our tempers and start arguing online. Something we never should have done. We did ourselves a huge disservice by doing so because I became frustrated and was not able to clearly get my point across. We eventually hear back from the people we were talking to with advice on what to do. They said to offer a partial refund for the missexing of the snake if that wasn’t accepted do a full refund.
Heather messages Jessica at 12:57am (12 hours after the initial complaint from Jessica) “Look. This is what I am willing to do to fix the gender error. We honestly thought both were female. I will stop by and bring you forty back for the wrong sexing. However I know all three snakes were a hundred percent healthy when they left here. Had you been a little more tasteful in the way this was gone about the outcome would have been a ton easier.”
November 24th at 11:41 Jessica replied “40.00 would be for the differnce in sex from female to male. It would be dropped into our bank account and we keep all snakes male female sick and the smaller female. Other than that unless your giving the full refund then this is what's happening."
1:50 pm Heather messages Jessica “I want to come pick up the snakes and give you the two hundred back.”
Jessica replies “When”
2:01 Heather says she will get back to her with the details and a half hour later asks to meet up in two hours. Jessica agrees and picks the meeting spot.
Heather asks “Can you please describe to me the way the snakes have been kept since you got them yesterday. With temp and humidty.”
Jessica responses “I have kept in serperate rack boxes with individual heat pads set to 90 degress hot spots. Inside the box was a bedding of cypress wood commonly used to keep humidity levels withing the box. Water bowls as well. We also fed them. Each adult ate two medium rats. I feed frozen thawed so there is nor risk of injury.”
4:00 pm Heather meets up with Jessica Daniel, John Owens and another male and makes the refund. The transaction is recorded by both parties to prevent any issues.
07:06 Heather brings the snakes back to me which is a six hour drive.(There is a one hour time difference between Pensacola and where I live.) I immediately pull them out to weight them. The female weight 1290 grams and the male is 1842. Charles Looney claimed that the female weighed 1100 grams when he weighed her and was 49+ inches. We pulled her out and measured her at 41 inches. After saying this he says he weighed them before they were fed two breeder sized mice. Jessica said in posts online that she fed the male three mice and the female two mice. Then in her text messages she says each had two medium rats. Charles said they were both fed two breeder sized mice.
I have an appointment for the female that they claim is “anorexic close to death” for Friday at 4:00 pm EST. He is an actual herp vet, not taking her to my dog’s vet. The vet said he will give a full evaluation and sign document at the appointment. I will post the findings of this appointment with a photo validation of the vet’s findings.
The lies that have been told by Charles Looney and Jessica Daniels have been flabbergasting. Jessica stated that she never spoke to Charles in all her postings yet Charles texts and says they shared every piece of information. That he told them to go ahead and purchase the snakes. Jessica said that she didn’t touch or hold the snakes when purchasing them. Charles’ claims that the snake is 49+ inches. I have had the snakes in my possession for four days now (Monday Novemeber 27th 2012). He has posted 48 comments on the album I have posted. He is now claiming the female weighed 1180 grams before Jessica fed her, however before was citing that her weight was 1100 grams. Four days later he is saying she weighs more. Charles has threated me with the FWC, BOIs, even court. Telling me that my snakes will be removed, that they need to be rescued Charles is saying that I am trying to make a profit off my snakes. Yet I put up all my ball pythons in trades for boa constrictors a month before HR511 is scheduled to pass by 42%. How does that make any sense? Charles is saying that we took advantage of Jessica and John because they are new to the trade. However in the same breath tells them to go ahead and purchase them. Yes this deal was riddled with errors on our part, and we have done the best we can to fix them. However FOUR days later after the deal has been resolved with both involved parties happy with the outcome Charles still insists on trying to rehash out everything.
I do realize and have open and have admitted to the mistakes that were made on both Heather and my own behalf. We mixed up the weights on the female and male and was 110 grams more than what she actually was. There were no complaints about the het ghost however she was sold at 130 grams and was 140 grams, they did not feed her, although they did say she was popped female. I do apologize for the complications that arose from the mis sexing of the snake. I do apologize that it was inexcusable that Heather and I were not on the same page during parts of this transaction. I apologize that the refund was not done in a more timely manner and that there were complications on our part being stubborn and being defensive when attacked. We didn’t seek out to harm anyone or to lead anyone on in anyway. I have learned many lessons throughout this transaction. I have learned that every little detail needs to be in writing and even things of common sense need to be in writing. I have learned that the reptile community is a place where no mistakes can be made, even among friends. I do take it very personally that Charles feels the need to use slander as well as his established position in the reptile community to squash anyone who crosses him. I look forward to the vet visit and proving that there were mistakes made on our part however we are not mistreating the snakes and trying to sell them to unsuspecting people. We treat every snake to the best of our abilities and will continue to strive to do so. We are not a breeder, we are not a business, we are only hobbyist interested in the keeping of reptiles and the only breedings we have considered are those for personal satisfaction. There are many many photos of this whole transaction located at
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3918619249019.2140993.1385663455&type=3
This album does not contain every photo of every message but does have many of the transactions. The album contains 52 pictures and as this goes on it became harder to keep everything straight. On Friday it will be updated with the vet report as well as this posting. If there are other postings you would like to see please let me know and I will post it for you. Thanks for reading this long insane post. I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings there were from the FBI Facebook page. This postings intentions are of clearing my name for mistreatment of my snakes. I have no issues taking her to the vet to prove without a doubt that my snakes are in perfect condition. Charles puts his name and neck on the line for this saying numerous times that he wouldn’t go this far over lies however I have seen nothing but bullying, harassment and lies out of Charles and he wasn't even the person who purchased the snakes.
Honestly I am tired of being harassed. Charles took it personally that we didn't want to do dealings with him and is continuing to act out for it. Please be aware that if you do dealings with him that there are no limits to Charles. That he will pretty much say whatever he needs to in order to fulfill his personal vendetta. He has no respect for anyone and it's sad that he would cite all his years as a breeder to support his claims. I can pretty much promise you that come Friday he will try to discredit the vet or say we took the vet a different snake. Even just saying the snake was anorexic, which is the loss of appetite or refusal to eat and then turning around and saying they ate is beyond confusing to me. I do feel bad for Jessica and John.
"Charles Looney Mom always said if it walks like a douch talks like a douch and looks like a douch.......Its probably a douch.
07:00am · Like"
After a year we had several ball pythons all of different morphs. As we were researching the ball python community we became to be discouraged. We had realized we made mistakes buying to many males, too young, and everything being single gene. Now spending $500+ on a ball python didn’t seem so crazy. We decided to do a “practice” breeding so we purchased two normal female ball pythons one from a local reptile shop, and another from a person in the area. We thought that with breeding that would bring back the interest in ball pythons.
In purchasing ball pythons we picked up a few boas and realized we enjoyed keeping the boas more than we did the ball pythons. We preferred the interaction far more and the personalities of the boas. In November Heather and I decided that we would sell and trade the ball pythons we had for boas. I kept back a small handful of ball pythons for myself. Ones I felt attached to and watched grow from hatchlings.
Charles Looney contacted me on Novemeber 12th 2012 via Facebook message in regards to purchasing the two female breeder size ball pythons and a yellow belly hatching female. Charles and I have known each other for about five months through a Facebook herp page based in Pensacola Fl. We have been “friends” on Facebook for the same length of time.
My first personal interaction with Charles was about an Eastern Glass Lizard he had for sale. He sent me his Paypal information and I sent him the payment with the understanding that Heather Emmons would pick the Glass Lizard up on my behalf so I didn't have to pay to have it to be shipped to me. I contacted him on September 30th asking if Heather could pick up the Glass Lizard with no reply. Heather also tried texting him also with no reply.(There are no photos of this so now considered hearsay). I didn't concern myself with the lizard anymore. I wasn't sure when Heather would be coming to visit again and I thought spending $60 on
shipping a $15 lizard was silly. On October 21st Charles contacted me about a Mojave female. On the herp page we belong to I had posted that a Mojave we thought previously to be male popped female. I didn’t post it for sale or trade, just in excitement. Charles messaged me about a possible trade. He wanted to trade a pair of hog island boas. I declined the trade in the hopes to make BELs but inquired to see if he had a large male breeder size ball python that I could purchase. This was shortly after I had picked up the second female ball python on October 12th.
Novemeber 12th Charles messaged me about the two female breeders and the yellow belly female. He again offered the hog island pair for trade. He posted pictures to my page of the babies as well as the father and mother. In the messages back and forth I told him about the mistake on the Mojave. I also said I only interested in the female which he said wouldn’t be worth the shipping. I told him that Heather wanted some time to think about the deal, that she would be coming back into the area for the holidays (8 days later). He said he would want it ASAP. He asked about the weights of the snakes and the word for word reply was; “I cannot get them to stay on the scale for the life of me lol Part of the issue is the scale is too small. I will try again today and send you a pic. The one female I have weighed at 1500 grams before. She has been eating large/med rats every week without a miss. The other female (Heather just reminded me) has a calcium bump on her. That is what I was told when I bought her but looks like a live feeding scar to me. She was sold as a proven breeder, 8 egg clutch. She is a hefty girl. She has been eating every week large/small. I haven't tried to weigh her yet though.”
I told him that I was unsure about the weights, that I had weighed one female at 1500 grams however I felt my scale was too small to weigh the snakes properly. (Since this I have realized I could use a bigger bowl on the scale for larger snake weights.) I also told him about the OTHER female was purchased with a “calcium deposit” that in my opinion was a feed scar. I hadn’t tried to weigh her. After all this information he said he would ship the hog island pair the following day and I would ship my snakes after I received them. I told him I would speak to Heather and let him know what was going on. Spoke to Heather and we agreed shipping would be too complicated. I was only interested in the female hog island and we had never shipped before. I emailed him back saying Heather didn’t want to trade, that there had been an offer to buy the yellow belly outright. I thanked him for his offer and that his snakes were gorgeous looking. He replied the same night saying that okay he would take the het ghost female instead. I replied the following day explaining we were not comfortable shipping, that the person who bought the yellow belly had interest in the females and that if they were still available when Heather was in the area for Thanksgiving they could talk then.
He replied thanks, just let me know and he didn’t mind waiting. This is the last contact I had with Charles Looney about the deal. At this point I told Heather that if she wanted to take them out to Charles and do trades with him that was up to her. If she did I was only interested in the hog island female.
November 17 2012 Heather Facebook messaged Charles asking if he was still interested in trades. Heather told Charles that she was only interested in trading the hog island female and if he wanted to buy the other female for $100 she was willing to do that. Charles said no he was only interested in trading for both and that he had 300 animals and sure they could come to some sort of agreement.
November the 18th Heather asked Charles via Facebook if he had any het pied or sand boas. He replied that he did not have any sand boas. Heather did not reply.
November 19th Charles messaged via Facebook that he did have some het pied stuff. Heather did not respond.
Heather messaged Jessica Daniel via Facebook asking if she would be interested in the ball pythons we had. Jessica and Heather had a conversation about the snakes and Jessica asked Heather to text her pictures of the snakes. Jessica asked for a price all together and separate prices.
Heather sends Jessica pictures of all the snakes with a small description. With the two breeder females she says “Breeder female 1400 grams.” “Breeder female 1600 grams. Calcium deposit on her back. Doesn’t cause issues proven breeder.”) She says she wants the breeder females and inquires how big the het ghost is. Heather tells Jessica “The het ghost is 130 grams. I have two breeder females one weighs 1400 and the other weighs 1600.” Jessica says okay and says she can meet Friday (November 23rd), they agree to meet halfway.
Tuesday November 20th 2012 4:05 pm Charles Facebook messaged her again saying that he was expecting her that day for the trade of the hog island.
Charles text Heather asking what was going on. Heather explained to Charles that she wasn’t in town yet; she had gotten out of town late and was dealing with traffic. She said that she would text him Friday and let him know what was going on.
At 5:09 pm ,twenty minutes after Charles Looney messaged Heather on Facebook saying he was expecting her for the trade of the hog island, Jessica asks for the pictures to be resent to her because she deleted them.
At 5:24 pm Jessica text messages Heather asking for her to resend the pictures of the snakes. Heather resends the pictures. Jessica exclaims she can’t believe how big they are, asks what they eat. Heather says that they eat a med rat. Jessica comments that the female she received from Heather earlier in the year is getting big and calming down. She asks if they can meet up sooner than Friday Heather says she can but she would have to come down to where she is instead of meeting halfway. Jessica says she doesn’t have the money to pay $200 and Heather says she cannot go any lower. Heather makes sure they are still on for Friday and Jessica says they are just received the money early. She again asks for more pictures. Heather says she will tomorrow, she just got into town.
Wednesday November 21st 11:51am Jessica texts Heather for pictures of the snakes. Heather says yes give me a second.
1:49pm Jessica messages again asking for pictures of the snakes. Heather responds at 2:20pm apologizing for the delay and sends new pictures of all the snakes at 2:47pm including a picture of her finger against the snake for size reference. She says great. Heather says they are in a 41 qt tub for a size comparison and Jessica says nice size. Heather texts “Yeah there big for sure. If u have a male that’s ready they will lay eggs for you this year.” “The smaller one of the two though prolly needs another few meals.” Jessica says she can’t wait and makes sure they are meeting up still on Friday. They discuss a meeting spot for meeting up early on Friday because Jessica says she has work.
Thursday November 22nd Heather messaged Jessica asking if they were still meeting up on Friday. They talk about the meeting spot and Jessica says she will see her then.
Friday November 23rd
8:48 am Charles Looney texts Heather says "I really hope you are upfront and honest with john and jessica on the health and feeding records on the snakes. They are good people and friends of mine. I find it very likely at this point you will say what you need to just to make the sale. If there is anything wrong with them you need to be upfront with them so they can make a good decision with all the info. To many shady dealers out there. Do the right thing."
At this point in time Heather still has the snakes in her possession and she is on her way to meet with Jessica and John.
8:48 Heather asks Jessica if Charles is with her.
Jessica says no and asks if he is supposed to be.
9:00 am They meet up and Jessica and her boyfriend John purchase the snakes from Heather. Heather says both Jessica and John took out all of the snakes from their tubs to look them over. Heather says she explained the calcium deposit which we thought was a rat scar. Jessica pushed on it and said it didn’t seem to bother her. Heather pointed out a rub spot where the other snake had rubber her nose a bit. John said it was no big deal, they had snakes that had that too.
10:30 am Heather responds back “Oki Doki” to Charles.
10:46 Charles text messages Heather"Yeah nice lie about me to jessica that we were undecided about a trade. I have all the texts and Fb messages. You are a liar. If I wanted the snakes john and jessica would not have bought them. I told them they could go ahead because they needed them more. I really didn't care but you had to tell one more lie to cover your other lies. Now I am upset. You can lie all you want but now you are trying to twist your dirty deal on me. Trust me I did not need your normals. If I want to pay cash for them I can get quality animals. Trust me everyone will know you are a liar and can't be trusted."”
Heather replies “It honest doesn’t involve you. You didn’t go out of ur way or anything else. Not sure what your so butt hurt about.”
Charles Looney goes on “I have worked hard to build my honest reputation. They knew about every message you sent before they went. You just looked that much more dishonest with you ladt lie. I told you I didn’t care. Just took note you are a liar. But the last lie you told is the one that I am taking personal.”
Heather replies “Sorry you got your feelings hurt. No one lied to you or about you though. Cry to your mom or wife. I am neither of those people so take care.”
Charles Looney goes on a barrage of text messages. “If I cared you would not have been avle to sell them to john and Jessica. They told me 10 times they would not get them. I didn’t care. But you had to lie on me. Yes you lied. Tell the Boi you didn’t lie after I post all of our messages.”
“I’m not mad. What did I lose. Nothing. Its your rep that’s hurting not mine. Just another shady dealer going on the bad guy list.”
11:02 Charles says “I have been doing this for 15 years and I take pride in honesty. I word is good and when I tell the truth about you I will not be doubted.
Heather replies “Over something that doesn’t even involve you”
Charles Looney goes on; “Why don’t you just buck up and tell the truth. You made a deal with me on the female boa. John told me you were trying to sell them to him and he agreed to buy them so I texted you to see what you would say. You said our deal was still on. I said what day. You said ummmmmmm Friday. We got a good laugh out of you going ummm because john already told me you knew you were coming Friday and you tried to make it sound as if you just thought of it.”
“so I told you that I needed to know what day we were trading so I could be available. You told me Friday. Knowing you were going to sell them to someone else. You had me plan on being available Friday. Thankfully we were on to what a liar you are and I didn’t plan my day around it as you tried to have me do. I suppose just to keep me as a back up plan in case your money didn’t come through. All this shows that you will lie to profit off your snakes. “
11:13 am Heather messages Jessica Daniel “You know I’ve tired being nice to you making sure you get good deals and everything but this is to much drama for me. Insane. Hope you enjoy the snakes.”
Jessica replies “what??”
11:15 am Charles says – “You are not to be trusted, You got caught in your lies and now will either have to come clean or attempt to cover it up with countless more lies and end up looking even more of a douch than you already do.”
Heather responds. “I don’t consider snakes sold until money switches hands, You were informed that I would rather have cash, Once again this deal does not involve you any longer when I was on the way to drop them off and you called harassing me I told you that I wasn’t doing it. That I had a better offer. I never agreed to any trade with you.
11:35 Charles Looney says – “You such a douch. Everyone knew what was going on the whole time. Trying to cover lies with more lies. I will tell the truth about you to everyone. Start getting your lies in order.
11:39 am Heather replies to Jessica “I don’t appreciate being called a liar and everything else.”
Jessica replies “Haven’t said anything else to you.”
Heather replies “No but I’m getting harassed behind you and your boyfriend,”
Jessica says “how’s that my fault?”
Heather says “ Well because obviously y’all don’t like getting good deals. My rep is bein threatened for selling to y’all. It’s fine like I said just to much drama involved in all this.”
11:53 am – Charles messages Heather - “Listen you’re a real piece of work. The anorexic snake is on deaths door and the one that looks like it has a chance to survive is a male. You need to refund their money.”
He sends a picture of a male popped snake.
“Lie your way out of this. It’s a male. We have picture evidence. Now what are you going to do.”
“Yes that is a hemi pene.”
12:04 am (4 hours after the initial trade) Jessica sends Heather a picture of a popped male snake. “That somewhat goodlooking one is a male! Wtf we paid for three females that we was told was halthy!”
Heather replies “ Look I’m done dealing with you and with him. The snakes are healthy. I assure you that much. You looked, your boyfriend looked. I sent you tons of pictures. You had the chance to say no. You bought them. That’s it.”
At this point Heather is trying to explain to me what is going on. I call Jessica Daniel myself right after she messages Heather and have a 3:41 conversation with her. I ask her what the heck is going on. She tells me that she wasn’t happy with the snakes. That one is almost dead and the other is a male. That Heather didn’t let them touch the snakes and didn’t explain the bump at all. I tell her fine I know for a fact there is nothing wrong with the snakes and that the one that she is claiming to be a male was probed in front of me at a reptile shop in town. I tell her I will talk to Heather about refunding the snakes and I hang up the phone with her.
I call Heather back and speak to her about the situation. Heather tells me a completely different story about how they pressed on the bump and that they pulled the snakes out of the box to look them over. I tell Heather that I expected her to handle it in whatever way she saw fit.
12:20 pm Charles Looney starts posting pictures of the snakes on a herp page we all belong to with the title "Just posting these pics to establish a timeline for a case of fraud against one of our members." He posted a few pictures of the snake hanging by it’s tail and the snake popped.
12:22 pm Jessica sent Heather a messaged saying that she spoke to me and I told her that they are trading back and they will get their money back.
Heather tells her “That isn’t gonna work. I don’t know what has happened to the snakes since they have been in your care. I know the snakes aren’t skinny. You had the chance to look at them. You could have said something and you didn’t. I sent you multiple pictures and gave you the chance to see them before purchasing them, You agree they were fine when you gave me the money.”
1:51 pm Jessica says “So u aint gna make it right?”
Heather responses “I don’t feel I have anything to make right.”
“I seem pictures Charles posted. The snake appears dead? Did y’all kill it?”
Jessica replies “No she isn’t dead she is exactly how we got her.”
At this point Heather and I are still talking about how to fix the situation. We message a few different people who have more experience in the industry than we do about how to fix the situation. Our concern is the well being of the snakes. We also were concerned that by giving a full refund we were admitting that the snakes were sick. Seeing how We had ever reason to believe that Charles felt the need to fulfill some sort of personal vendetta. We were completely in over our heads in this situation. Charles is posting how awful and wrong we are on every site possible. We tried to ignore it as long as possible but eventually we both lose our tempers and start arguing online. Something we never should have done. We did ourselves a huge disservice by doing so because I became frustrated and was not able to clearly get my point across. We eventually hear back from the people we were talking to with advice on what to do. They said to offer a partial refund for the missexing of the snake if that wasn’t accepted do a full refund.
Heather messages Jessica at 12:57am (12 hours after the initial complaint from Jessica) “Look. This is what I am willing to do to fix the gender error. We honestly thought both were female. I will stop by and bring you forty back for the wrong sexing. However I know all three snakes were a hundred percent healthy when they left here. Had you been a little more tasteful in the way this was gone about the outcome would have been a ton easier.”
November 24th at 11:41 Jessica replied “40.00 would be for the differnce in sex from female to male. It would be dropped into our bank account and we keep all snakes male female sick and the smaller female. Other than that unless your giving the full refund then this is what's happening."
1:50 pm Heather messages Jessica “I want to come pick up the snakes and give you the two hundred back.”
Jessica replies “When”
2:01 Heather says she will get back to her with the details and a half hour later asks to meet up in two hours. Jessica agrees and picks the meeting spot.
Heather asks “Can you please describe to me the way the snakes have been kept since you got them yesterday. With temp and humidty.”
Jessica responses “I have kept in serperate rack boxes with individual heat pads set to 90 degress hot spots. Inside the box was a bedding of cypress wood commonly used to keep humidity levels withing the box. Water bowls as well. We also fed them. Each adult ate two medium rats. I feed frozen thawed so there is nor risk of injury.”
4:00 pm Heather meets up with Jessica Daniel, John Owens and another male and makes the refund. The transaction is recorded by both parties to prevent any issues.
07:06 Heather brings the snakes back to me which is a six hour drive.(There is a one hour time difference between Pensacola and where I live.) I immediately pull them out to weight them. The female weight 1290 grams and the male is 1842. Charles Looney claimed that the female weighed 1100 grams when he weighed her and was 49+ inches. We pulled her out and measured her at 41 inches. After saying this he says he weighed them before they were fed two breeder sized mice. Jessica said in posts online that she fed the male three mice and the female two mice. Then in her text messages she says each had two medium rats. Charles said they were both fed two breeder sized mice.
I have an appointment for the female that they claim is “anorexic close to death” for Friday at 4:00 pm EST. He is an actual herp vet, not taking her to my dog’s vet. The vet said he will give a full evaluation and sign document at the appointment. I will post the findings of this appointment with a photo validation of the vet’s findings.
The lies that have been told by Charles Looney and Jessica Daniels have been flabbergasting. Jessica stated that she never spoke to Charles in all her postings yet Charles texts and says they shared every piece of information. That he told them to go ahead and purchase the snakes. Jessica said that she didn’t touch or hold the snakes when purchasing them. Charles’ claims that the snake is 49+ inches. I have had the snakes in my possession for four days now (Monday Novemeber 27th 2012). He has posted 48 comments on the album I have posted. He is now claiming the female weighed 1180 grams before Jessica fed her, however before was citing that her weight was 1100 grams. Four days later he is saying she weighs more. Charles has threated me with the FWC, BOIs, even court. Telling me that my snakes will be removed, that they need to be rescued Charles is saying that I am trying to make a profit off my snakes. Yet I put up all my ball pythons in trades for boa constrictors a month before HR511 is scheduled to pass by 42%. How does that make any sense? Charles is saying that we took advantage of Jessica and John because they are new to the trade. However in the same breath tells them to go ahead and purchase them. Yes this deal was riddled with errors on our part, and we have done the best we can to fix them. However FOUR days later after the deal has been resolved with both involved parties happy with the outcome Charles still insists on trying to rehash out everything.
I do realize and have open and have admitted to the mistakes that were made on both Heather and my own behalf. We mixed up the weights on the female and male and was 110 grams more than what she actually was. There were no complaints about the het ghost however she was sold at 130 grams and was 140 grams, they did not feed her, although they did say she was popped female. I do apologize for the complications that arose from the mis sexing of the snake. I do apologize that it was inexcusable that Heather and I were not on the same page during parts of this transaction. I apologize that the refund was not done in a more timely manner and that there were complications on our part being stubborn and being defensive when attacked. We didn’t seek out to harm anyone or to lead anyone on in anyway. I have learned many lessons throughout this transaction. I have learned that every little detail needs to be in writing and even things of common sense need to be in writing. I have learned that the reptile community is a place where no mistakes can be made, even among friends. I do take it very personally that Charles feels the need to use slander as well as his established position in the reptile community to squash anyone who crosses him. I look forward to the vet visit and proving that there were mistakes made on our part however we are not mistreating the snakes and trying to sell them to unsuspecting people. We treat every snake to the best of our abilities and will continue to strive to do so. We are not a breeder, we are not a business, we are only hobbyist interested in the keeping of reptiles and the only breedings we have considered are those for personal satisfaction. There are many many photos of this whole transaction located at
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3918619249019.2140993.1385663455&type=3
This album does not contain every photo of every message but does have many of the transactions. The album contains 52 pictures and as this goes on it became harder to keep everything straight. On Friday it will be updated with the vet report as well as this posting. If there are other postings you would like to see please let me know and I will post it for you. Thanks for reading this long insane post. I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings there were from the FBI Facebook page. This postings intentions are of clearing my name for mistreatment of my snakes. I have no issues taking her to the vet to prove without a doubt that my snakes are in perfect condition. Charles puts his name and neck on the line for this saying numerous times that he wouldn’t go this far over lies however I have seen nothing but bullying, harassment and lies out of Charles and he wasn't even the person who purchased the snakes.
Honestly I am tired of being harassed. Charles took it personally that we didn't want to do dealings with him and is continuing to act out for it. Please be aware that if you do dealings with him that there are no limits to Charles. That he will pretty much say whatever he needs to in order to fulfill his personal vendetta. He has no respect for anyone and it's sad that he would cite all his years as a breeder to support his claims. I can pretty much promise you that come Friday he will try to discredit the vet or say we took the vet a different snake. Even just saying the snake was anorexic, which is the loss of appetite or refusal to eat and then turning around and saying they ate is beyond confusing to me. I do feel bad for Jessica and John.
"Charles Looney Mom always said if it walks like a douch talks like a douch and looks like a douch.......Its probably a douch.
07:00am · Like"
its very much appreaciated 
technique. Words are being tossed around, like "anarexic"[sic], "sick", "cruilty"[sic] and "emaciated". I'm not seeing any protruding spines or any other reason to consider the snake anorexic. Just because you say something, doesn't automatically make it true. I just get a very slimy used car salesman vibe from TripleJ and crowd, especially Charles. Dude seems to think he's a real smooth-talker and likely believes he's much more clever than he actually is. Again, just my gut feeling about them.