Info Craig Hughes (twohy4you)

[Abby]

Not agreeing with you is not the same as not getting it, Abby. I'm quite certain that the majority of us (if not ALL of us) understand your rationale....

I'm not going to argue with ya Harald, I respect you immensely but do not agree

 

[Abby]

I think you made a good choice to let him have two of the five.

Thanks.

 

[radera5]

The male is what made them be Huffmans. The female is what made them Huffmans be.

You're still making this about dollar signs, Abby. It doesn't seem that Craig had much interest in Huffmans, nor is he concerned/impressed about your perception of the value of them (and before you object to my characterization of things - take a look at which one of you has been referencing the price/value....heck, you even mentioned it with relation to the yellowbellies; saying that at $100 each, you didn't care if he got an extra one.) I think his offer of accepting your yellowbelly in place of another Huffman demonstrates that pretty clearly.

I'm sorry Harold, it just seemed like you didn't get it in this post. You were saying she kept making it into dollar signs, I was explaining why one would do that...even if he seems to not be interested in the Huffman's, dollar signs still play a HUGE part in something like this.

 

[radera5]

I'm not going to argue with ya Harald, I respect you immensely but do not agree

with you there. I fell the SAME way Harold!

 

[Abby]

I'm sorry Harold, it just seemed like you didn't get it in this post. You were saying she kept making it into dollar signs, I was explaining why one would do that...even if he seems to not be interested in the Huffman's, dollar signs still play a HUGE part in something like this.

and to elaborate, it truly was a combination of FAIRNESS and the value. My effort/contribution greatly exceeded his. If it was just one or the other it wouldn't have come to this - guaranteed

 

[radera5]

with you there. I fell the SAME way Harold!

Please excuse my triple post!! I did not mean to mis -spell your name Harald! I am sorry about that.....twice :/

 

[Bobby Douglass]

THANK YOU! Finally, someone gets it.

What if this was a deal where the male was worth 20,000$ and the female was a normal? I'm sure all of you saying I'm wrong here wouldn't be so quick to give 2 of those snakes over for a measly loan of a normal female. Yes, it was a favor. I could have bought as many normals as I wanted but knew he had no males so bred his for him. Give me a break already.

I've already said he can have two of them to cut the drama, so this is done in my book

Is he going to have any input at all in which ones he gets or will it just be the two that are left after you pick your three favorites? I do think he is getting a great deal either way.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

You didn't change the split when you announced you had changed the male. When you put the Huffman in with the female was your intent to have him only get 1 baby, no matter what was produced? If you intended that, why not mention it?

When you said "hey, I used a diff male" and didn't say "We should change the original agreement" then the prior agreement would be in effect, other than the change in sire. It doesn't matter if it was a Huffman or a pastel.

Yes, he's getting a lot more value than if it were a YB.

Let me ask you one thing... since you keep saying it's all about your male. Think about this. How many eggs can your male Huffman produce without any female? Zero. So his female was necasary to make this particular clutch. His female + your male = eggs.

If it were me, and it were a friend of mine, I would be estactic that I got to share such bounty with my friend. I would have been thinking "Geez, we're going to be patting each other on the back for ever over this clutch!" You guys are supposed to be friends, so is the value of a single snake worth the friendship? You can make more Huffmans. Obviously you've got a male that throws good babies.

Right now, you've said you'd give him 2 snakes. He's said he would be happy with the 1 Huffman and a much lower valued YB. Either way, I'm certain that the two of you will end up working this out between you and I hope that you can repair the friendship as well. A single misunderstanding/miscomminication shouldn't end up ruining two friends.

 

[Abby]

How many eggs can your male Huffman produce without any female? Zero.

and how many Huffmans can she produce without my male? Zero. It works both ways.

Like I said though, it's solved. He'll get his when they eat.

 

[Daequix]

i agree with this.

As do I

 

[Quiet Tempest]

You're missing the point, Utta. He never agreed to any deal, so that male should never have been paired with his female. Period.

Price of the morph is irrelevant.

I have to agree here. Regardless of the value or potential value of morph A versus morph B - the original agreement was for a 50/50 split of a YB clutch. Perhaps he doesn't have the same interest in working with or trying to market a relatively unknown morph? I don't see how the agreement can change so drastically without both parties' explicit acknowledgment of those changes.

I do hope that whatever new agreement the two of you come to, it's not going to tarnish your friendship. Friendships are worth far more than any ball morph.

 

[twohy4you]

please guys, check the tracking it clearly states that this is a strictly huffman breeding. i said ivory from the get go. i didn't sell the ivory or trade the ivory. you want me to put the rest of the truth up. here is a little tiny piece of it. next post.

 

[radera5]

please guys, check the tracking it clearly states that this is a strictly huffman breeding. i said ivory from the get go. i didn't sell the ivory or trade the ivory. you want me to put the rest of the truth up. here is a little tiny piece of it. next post.

So I am confused? It sounds to me like you are saying it was Huffman the whole time...and you knew this?? Right?

 

[bsharrah]

Friendships are worth far more than any ball morph.

Apparently not. To some, the perceived value of snake is worth more.

please guys, check the tracking it clearly states that this is a strictly huffman breeding. i said ivory from the get go. i didn't sell the ivory or trade the ivory. you want me to put the rest of the truth up. here is a little tiny piece of it. next post.

Abby already stated she deleted the tracking for the original pairing. Sorry it came to all this Craig. All I can say is take what she is offering and move on. In the future, pick your friends a bit more carefully. Believe it or not, there are people who value friendship over a snake(s). God help us all if there weren't.

.....and I wouldn't worry at all about your name being on this thread. As Harald stated, most understand what this was about. True colors came out here and you are walking away just fine.

 

[bsharrah]

So I am confused? It sounds to me like you are saying it was Huffman the whole time...and you knew this?? Right?

No. He is saying Abby intended to pair her Huffman from the start; however, she previously stated this was not the case and the tracking for the initial pairing was removed since it didn't take.

 

[bsharrah]

No. He is saying Abby intended to pair her Huffman from the start; however, she previously stated this was not the case and the tracking for the initial pairing was removed since it didn't take.

Sorry. Should have added Craig is suggesting Abby intended to pair the Huffman from the start without his knowledge.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

and how many Huffmans can she produce without my male? Zero. It works both ways.

Like I said though, it's solved. He'll get his when they eat.

Exactly, which is why splitting is proper. It took two to tango.

I'm glad it's solved. I hope the miscomminication is talked through by the two of you.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that when the Ivory didn't work, she changed the breeding info on the tracking. Otherwise it would show something that didn't happen, that a Ivory bred the female. I don't think it has a notation for "Tried to breed but male didn't lock".

Now if the dates show the Huffman was put in at the date breeding attempts started, that might "prove" that the Huffman was intended to be the stud in the first place.

 

[MrBig]

I must say that I entered the other thread Craig started, and was redirected here by Abby's post there. Once I saw it was Abby that was the breeder in question I thought "Oh no here we go." But I'm impressed by a number of regulars on here offering an unbiased opinion.I have to side with Craig on this one, the original deal stands unless you BOTH agreed to a change in the split when you agreed to a change in the sire. I understand your frustration once you saw how the clutch turned out, being all huffmans. Personally if I loaned you a snake to breed to your male and I had specific plans for the offspring, I wouldn't have allowed you to change it to a morph that personnally I don't beleive is worth half of what you are asking. The funny thing is that since you didn't change the split agreement when you changed sire's that in the court of law you'd be bound by the original agreement.

PS. Harald you impressed me in this thread. I've always seen your posts and attitude on here as proffesional, but you cut through all the BS here and never showed any bias.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Exactly, which is why splitting is proper. It took two to tango.

I'm glad it's solved. I hope the miscomminication is talked through by the two of you.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that when the Ivory didn't work, she changed the breeding info on the tracking. Otherwise it would show something that didn't happen, that a Ivory bred the female. I don't think it has a notation for "Tried to breed but male didn't lock".

Now if the dates show the Huffman was put in at the date breeding attempts started, that might "prove" that the Huffman was intended to be the stud in the first place.

I agree that if the dates show that the ""Huffy" was put in at the date..."

I disagree that records should be purged because one does not witness a lock. This could be one of the reasons that there are so many "junk" genes around for the next person to assume they have a "new" morph. I disagree, because unless one keeps an eye on them 24/7 and foregoes sleep, etc then it would be basically impossible to say for sure that there was never a lock just because one did not witness it (and it usually appears that there was no lock if both animals retreat to their corners when they are done instead of staying locked and being caught).

Therefore, all records should remain at all times, imo, and there should be no "creative" editing.

 

[Abby]

Sorry. Should have added Craig is suggesting Abby intended to pair the Huffman from the start without his knowledge.

Right, which is an attempt to make me look shady. He is lying about that. I paired the Ivory to the female several times and it didn't result in ANY breeding behavior whatsoever. I know he did not breed her or even try.

I agree that if the dates show that the ""Huffy" was put in at the date..."

I disagree that records should be purged because one does not witness a lock. This could be one of the reasons that there are so many "junk" genes around for the next person to assume they have a "new" morph. I disagree, because unless one keeps an eye on them 24/7 and foregoes sleep, etc then it would be basically impossible to say for sure that there was never a lock just because one did not witness it (and it usually appears that there was no lock if both animals retreat to their corners when they are done instead of staying locked and being caught).

Therefore, all records should remain at all times, imo, and there should be no "creative" editing.

I can edit my breeding projects as I see fit? There was no breeding behavior witnessed, and my snakes live in my bedroom, where I spend 90% of my time. I check on my snakes more than most people possibly can so I am confident in my ability to say NO locks happened with the Ivory. Once I asked him if pairing the Huffman was ok I deleted the Ivory tracking because at that point it became a Huffman x Normal pairing, not a double sire like that would've suggested if I left the Ivory tracking there.

I would have come to an agreement with him on this deal if he didn't get an attitude with me from the get go. I was being completely civil before he started going for threats and trying to dog on me for him "helping me so much" which has nothing to do with this, as I've done just as much for him if not more. Who is the one making this situation right? Me. That's not being greedy, and I was never being greedy in the first place. It's greedy to loan someone a beater car and expect them to buy you a brand new Honda later.