Info Craig Hughes (twohy4you)

[jdshscja]

Sent you a message on iHerp, but for the rest:

He's getting his 2 snakes (as I've said now many times). I get first pick, he gets 2nd.

Well actually what you were saying was this:

I already said I'll pick my 3 and you can have the other 2.

Those are two very different things. Then when asked if he would have any input into which he would get, you simply ignored that.

The constant back and forth about the "perceived" value of the morph and whether it is new morph or not is pointless, especially when both parties say it's not about the money. There was an agreement but then one party changed the agreement without mutual consent, it's really as simple as that. With those facts, wanting anything more than the original agreement by either party is just greed. Thankfully something close to the deal is happening now and hopefully the friendship can be salvaged.

 

[Abby]

As for me.... I would not pay $1500 for a morph that you can't distinguish from a normal. just sayin

That's fine, but they are easy to tell from a normal. At least the good quality ones. Like I said, since it is new who knows the natural variation. Just like there are low quality YBs, Hypos, (insert any morph here) it is to be expected there is also variation with this morph. Anyone who knows Ball Pythons should be able to tell an average to high quality Huffman from a normal (or a Black Pastel, for that matter) I wouldn't pay $100 for a YB I couldn't tell from a normal - that doesn't mean I wouldn't pay $300+ for a high quality YB. Likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to pay $1500 for a low-quality Huffman, especially when I haven't even declared that is what they are

Well actually what you were saying was this:

Those are two very different things. Then when asked if he would have any input into which he would get, you simply ignored that.

Well, if you didn't notice those two quotes were a couple days apart - therefore if he had just messaged me after I messaged him he would've found I was fine with giving him 2nd pick. communication is key!

 

[jdshscja]

What bearing does the time between quotes have in any way? You picking your 3 and him getting the others is the ONLY thing you've said until your post yesterday, finally agreeing to do what's right. Even just a day before, you said this to him:

she texted me and said i will pick three and you can have the two left over.

You are right that communication is key, hopefully it's used properly in the future.

 

[twohy4you]

she has sent me a message on iherp but still has avoided what second snake i am getting.
oh and like i said i work 12-14 hour shifts. i can't sit on here 24/7 to "respond".

and yeah hopefully it is over but we will see.

oh and communication is key????? try and call abby, it will never ever happen. has onyone here ever talked to her on the phone???

 

[Abby]

she has sent me a message on iherp but still has avoided what second snake i am getting.
oh and like i said i work 12-14 hour shifts. i can't sit on here 24/7 to "respond".

and yeah hopefully it is over but we will see.

oh and communication is key????? try and call abby, it will never ever happen. has onyone here ever talked to her on the phone???

I already said on this thread not the YB - I didn't realize I needed to continuously repeat that, lol. and not sure what talking on the phone has to do with this - I know I'm not the only person who prefers to do stuff through emails. This day and age the phone has become pretty much unnecessary with all the other means of communication.

 

[jdshscja]

she has sent me a message on iherp but still has avoided what second snake i am getting.
oh and like i said i work 12-14 hour shifts. i can't sit on here 24/7 to "respond".

and yeah hopefully it is over but we will see.

oh and communication is key????? try and call abby, it will never ever happen. has onyone here ever talked to her on the phone???

She stated that you would alternate picks from your shared Huffman clutch, with her getting first pick. While I believe it is the deal that should have occurred from the start, if I were in your shoes, I would be thankful that this has worked out in your favor. Dragging the situation on by asking questions that have been answered and then mentioning that she doesn't pick up the phone is pointless.

 

[Focal]

she has sent me a message on iherp but still has avoided what second snake i am getting.
oh and like i said i work 12-14 hour shifts. i can't sit on here 24/7 to "respond".

and yeah hopefully it is over but we will see.

oh and communication is key????? try and call abby, it will never ever happen. has onyone here ever talked to her on the phone???

Honestly, after your "this is what I want or I'm taking it to the BOI" attitude, you would ONLY hear from me through email again. You may have provided the female and are entitled to something, but don't forget who put all the hard work in. That's something that I haven't seen considered in this thread yet.

 

[Daequix]

Honestly, after your "this is what I want or I'm taking it to the BOI" attitude, you would ONLY hear from me through email again. You may have provided the female and are entitled to something, but don't forget who put all the hard work in. That's something that I haven't seen considered in this thread yet.

I have known Abby for several years now...I don't know Craig. What I have seen is a very sanctimonious attitude and very snide remarks directed at Craig. I have seen a few directed at Abby as well, but mostly at the Huffman. The snake is innocent, I swear! Craig is a relative unknown on here. Abby is very well known. Who do you think many will side with despite the objective details?

I think we're ignoring the fact when we comment that Craig threatened to take this to the BOI is: there was a dispute that was not getting resolved and quite honestly if I had someone I was working with on a deal who refused to work with me.. It wouldn't have ended up here....I would just figure they were on the DNB list (do not buy or deal with). Additionally it wasn't Craig who started this thread. So accusing him of that--- really should have had that muck splashed into Abby's courtyard.

Ball pythons are hard work......I guess? I personally don't find a lot of hard work but maybe I don't have two ton snakes to drag from one container to the next to 'introduce them' and hope they breed. I think...but maybe I'm wrong...snakes have bred in nature all by themselves for years. It doesn't really require mood lighting, Barry White music and pole dancers. Girls, if the hubby is telling you this is necessary--check who is breeding with who in that snake room. The ONLY one who did the hard work was the normal female. The breeder was the transport vehicle for snake and eggs. As said previously- Mr Huff and Puff the fabulous new morph merely was a sperm donor. That isn't discounting the "morph". But the risk was to the female...and if any one thinks...oh it was just a normal...well, a few towns are missing village idiots. Without the "normals" in ball pythons---none of us would even be here in the first place discussing this. The normal begat the morph.

From my own opinion- I think this is just stupid. I haven't liked the attitudes I've seen on this thread. I've commented a few times. I have noted (privately) who I won't do business with ever again. Not because of this thread itself but because of what it has revealed about maturity levels and just mean spirited behavior.

There are people on both sides of the fence. This has gone on for over 20 pages...because Fauna likes its drama--why not watch the news (or are TV's outdated now? I don't know...I still use both phones and TV..but I'm outdated). If the two of those involved in the first place had stuck to the original verbal agreement of splitting the clutch with one another, we wouldn't be here.

I really do think this is sad. While we all post our names here (some true some not)- many are still hiding behind the anonymity of the pixel and the internet. Grow up.

Get the split done and get out of the limelight and return to what this should have been--- a serious discussion between people who called themselves friends, if it could have been settled impartial mediators should have been utilized..its what real business do...or hire lawyers. It may feel great now folks but.... but I certainly am not impressed by the posturing or the behavior and think this should get out of the limelight. It's really just a contest in seeing how far we can pee (I can't say it the other way or I'll get smakked).

Anyways--- I have to get to work. You know---real work that doesn't involve moving snakes from bin to bin. I may even break a sweat and I may have some responsibilities in there! Wow! New concept! (and yes...yes that was a snide remark but trust me--it was directed at NO one...just a sarcastic joke---I'm originally from NY- we created sarcasm and guilt)

 

[Focal]

I have known Abby for several years now...I don't know Craig. What I have seen is a very sanctimonious attitude and very snide remarks directed at Craig. I have seen a few directed at Abby as well, but mostly at the Huffman. The snake is innocent, I swear! Craig is a relative unknown on here. Abby is very well known. Who do you think many will side with despite the objective details?

I think we're ignoring the fact when we comment that Craig threatened to take this to the BOI is: there was a dispute that was not getting resolved and quite honestly if I had someone I was working with on a deal who refused to work with me.. It wouldn't have ended up here....I would just figure they were on the DNB list (do not buy or deal with). Additionally it wasn't Craig who started this thread. So accusing him of that--- really should have had that muck splashed into Abby's courtyard.

Ball pythons are hard work......I guess? I personally don't find a lot of hard work but maybe I don't have two ton snakes to drag from one container to the next to 'introduce them' and hope they breed. I think...but maybe I'm wrong...snakes have bred in nature all by themselves for years. It doesn't really require mood lighting, Barry White music and pole dancers. Girls, if the hubby is telling you this is necessary--check who is breeding with who in that snake room. The ONLY one who did the hard work was the normal female. The breeder was the transport vehicle for snake and eggs. As said previously- Mr Huff and Puff the fabulous new morph merely was a sperm donor. That isn't discounting the "morph". But the risk was to the female...and if any one thinks...oh it was just a normal...well, a few towns are missing village idiots. Without the "normals" in ball pythons---none of us would even be here in the first place discussing this. The normal begat the morph.

From my own opinion- I think this is just stupid. I haven't liked the attitudes I've seen on this thread. I've commented a few times. I have noted (privately) who I won't do business with ever again. Not because of this thread itself but because of what it has revealed about maturity levels and just mean spirited behavior.

There are people on both sides of the fence. This has gone on for over 20 pages...because Fauna likes its drama--why not watch the news (or are TV's outdated now? I don't know...I still use both phones and TV..but I'm outdated). If the two of those involved in the first place had stuck to the original verbal agreement of splitting the clutch with one another, we wouldn't be here.

I really do think this is sad. While we all post our names here (some true some not)- many are still hiding behind the anonymity of the pixel and the internet. Grow up.

Get the split done and get out of the limelight and return to what this should have been--- a serious discussion between people who called themselves friends, if it could have been settled impartial mediators should have been utilized..its what real business do...or hire lawyers. It may feel great now folks but.... but I certainly am not impressed by the posturing or the behavior and think this should get out of the limelight. It's really just a contest in seeing how far we can pee (I can't say it the other way or I'll get smakked).

Anyways--- I have to get to work. You know---real work that doesn't involve moving snakes from bin to bin. I may even break a sweat and I may have some responsibilities in there! Wow! New concept! (and yes...yes that was a snide remark but trust me--it was directed at NO one...just a sarcastic joke---I'm originally from NY- we created sarcasm and guilt)

I'm not sure where most of that came from since it doesn't pertain to my post, but when I read those initial emails there was a dispute and they were discussing the issue (you can't say it wasn't going anywhere, christ the problem wasn't even discussed for a day yet) and Craig followed with "it's either 50/50 or it goes to the boi." That is a threat. You've been here longer than me and should know how the BOI works. If something starts here, it must all be documented and phone calls lead to he said she said. I would not discuss anything on the phone.

Who do you think many will side with despite the objective details?

Has nothing to do with my point. If I wanted to take sides I would have jumped in the begining.

I think we're ignoring the fact when we comment that Craig threatened to take this to the BOI is: there was a dispute that was not getting resolved and quite honestly if I had someone I was working with on a deal who refused to work with me.. It wouldn't have ended up here....

Where was she refusing to work with him before the threat?

Additionally it wasn't Craig who started this thread. So accusing him of that--- really should have had that muck splashed into Abby's courtyard.

Accusing him of what? Threatening to start a BOI? It did happen. I threw no "muck" at no one... again, has nothing to do with my post.

Ball pythons are hard work......I guess? I personally don't find a lot of hard work but maybe I don't have two ton snakes to drag from one container to the next to 'introduce them' and hope they breed. I think...but maybe I'm wrong...snakes have bred in nature all by themselves for years. It doesn't really require mood lighting, Barry White music and pole dancers. Girls, if the hubby is telling you this is necessary--check who is breeding with who in that snake room.

Are you serious? It may not be as hard as you are trying to make it sound, but quite shallow if you think this was just putting two snakes together for a year. Work was done to earn the money for the morph. Work was done to raise it. Work was done through several copulations. Work was done feeding. Work was watching for eggs everyday. Work was done incubating the eggs, cutting the eggs, feeding the snakes, housing them. Work was done to buy the incubator and probably a few other places. Does this entitle her to more over him? Not my point. My point was to appreciate what was done by her and that she is still working to give you what it takes to make you happy. Does that not count for something and shouldn't be considered here? If you want to assume bad guys out of a communication error, well that's your deal.

As said previously- Mr Huff and Puff the fabulous new morph merely was a sperm donor. That isn't discounting the "morph". But the risk was to the female...

Right. Because females haven't attacked males during breeding? Males haven't lost hemipenes? Yes the female did the hard part of the work. I never challenged that. But these snide remarks you spoke of, seem to continuing through you.

From my own opinion- I think this is just stupid. I haven't liked the attitudes I've seen on this thread. I've commented a few times. I have noted (privately) who I won't do business with ever again. Not because of this thread itself but because of what it has revealed about maturity levels and just mean spirited behavior.

I'm sure you're not the only one

There are people on both sides of the fence. This has gone on for over 20 pages...because Fauna likes its drama--why not watch the news (or are TV's outdated now? I don't know...I still use both phones and TV..but I'm outdated).

Didn't you just fuel the falmes? Maybe I don't know what snide remarks are, but your post was full of them. Disclaimer or not, it was pretty rude.


I have remained neutral in this thread because "snide comments" aren't going to help them. I stated "You may have provided the female and are entitled to something, but don't forget who put all the hard work in. That's something that I haven't seen considered in this thread yet." He's waited all this time, why get impatient now? Don't these animals need to shed and eat? He has showed no consideration for this process other than requesting what is due to him. She appears to be working with him... why not the same in return?

 

[reptilebaby]

I also still beleive that craig should be happy with a split of the huffman clutch, and not try to get a snake that was from a different clutch. Heck I only WISH I had the money to buy a Huffman! He has NO "dibs" on a yellow belly from a clutch that did not come from his female. Sure the original agreement was to breed a yellow belly. Stuff happens, the male wasn't interested. I would be HAPPY with the outcome and sure, I might be upset with what happened, I would graciously accept the beautiful snakes that were produced. If I wanted a yellow belly that I saw that she had I would ask her if she would sell it to me, and I would do the right thing and pay for it!!

 

[reptilebaby]

Not expect it to be given to me as "pick of the clutch" when it wasn't even part of the clutch produced.
He is now only entitled to a huffman and a normal!

 

[RobNJ]

Nick, the bearer of the workload was addressed far earlier in this thread...in fact, it was Abby who brought it into play herself, but only after the clutch was Huffs and not YB's, and she became of the opinion that the original deal should be changed.

At this point, Abby has conceded(thankfully), and now Craig needs to not make this any more difficult and just go through with making his picks, as per the original and final agreement.

 

[Daequix]

Nick,

I apologize for using your post to start that out-- I was not actually responding to your post other than a brief area. So if it appeared (and I'm sure it did) that I was aiming this at you, I apologize. I'm not going to reply to your reply to my post since it was in response to your perception I was aiming this at you.

My intention was a comment on the entire thread. My apologies once again, I should not have put your post at the beginning of my post.

Susan

 

[twohy4you]

the 2 out of the same clutch is fine with me. i thought i was being kinda nice letting her give me a 200 dollar yellow belly instead of a Huffman.

just so i get second pick i don't care about the fourth.

the end.

 

[Bob O'Brien]

I didnt read this entire thread but I think it is redicilous for Craig to to get more then one Huffman, you upgraded from getting a couple YB's to a $1000 snake. Like Abbey said she could have picked up a normal for $50 and you would have got nothing out of the clutch. Hopefully you two work it out and can remain friends, breeder loans go bad all too often.

 

[reptilebaby]

Ummm It's ALREADY been worked out. That's why you should read the entire thread.

 

[radera5]

I didnt read this entire thread but I think it is redicilous for Craig to to get more then one Huffman, you upgraded from getting a couple YB's to a $1000 snake. Like Abbey said she could have picked up a normal for $50 and you would have got nothing out of the clutch. Hopefully you two work it out and can remain friends, breeder loans go bad all too often.

Bob my friend, I couldn't agree more! Seems like common sense doesn't it?

 

[KelliH]

This is why most breeding loans between friends never seem to work out. One or both get greedy. My advice is that if you are foolish enough to ever do this again, draw up a contract spelling out every detail. Standard breeding loans that I have done over the years are always 50/50 split of viable offspring with the breeder getting first pick.