KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
BTW, the above post was not intended to stir things up nor was it directed at any one person.
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
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IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
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Posted 08/15/2025
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Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
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Addendum: 01/10/2026
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Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Creating an “elite members club” or whatever you want to name it.
- Thread starter The BoidSmith
- Start date
A plausible solution possibly, yet still with the same issue of the absentee landlord's unwillingness to burden himself with the thankless task of administering it.Chameleon Company said:
While initially I thought that Rich should be more vigilant in defending this fragment of space as an extension of himself, I now believe that that is not possible. Furthermore, if you cannot control how character is defined, why make the unflattering revelation of it a part of the representation of who you are?
Lamentable as the low points revealed here are, they represent a part of what the whole of this community is. I see this forum as a vessel on the ocean which is this community, not the boundaries which define that community (ocean). In some instances, I think their has been the unintentional, unrealistic expectation for Rich to move or define the boundaries of the community. As to whom the captain allows to remain in the boat - that is a different matter entirely, but consider this: If someone were to ask you to watch over them and their siblings in order to ensure that they all played fair, did not embarrass themselves, did not poke each other in the eye, taught the younger ones correctly, decide who was an idiot, a clown, a fraud, who was family and who was not, who was right, wrong or a fool, settle their petty and major disputes, and generally force them to behave properly (assuming you could define that to everyones satisfaction); would you, could you,.... anyone?
KelliH said:Jim made a most excellent point. Those that have no true business reputation in herpetoculture have nothing to lose. They have no certification (for lack of a better word!).
Making an ass of oneself is totally ok as long as you own your words and are not ashamed.
I still think an elite forum(s) is definitely not a good idea. I understand the concept Alvaro, and it is a good one. I just think a better idea is to set ground rules for Fauna and stick by them, equally. But I'm not sure if that can be accomplished at this late date.
Oh well, Happy 2007!
Just out of curiousity, Kelli: You are a site admin, how have you dealt with this issue on your site?
Chameleon Company
New member
Tom O.
Not in full disagreement by any means ...... but
I believe the time honored expression of being "the Captain of this ship" is just that. For economic, time, personal, etc reasons, all of which are fine as it is Rich's site, things in Fauna and the BOI have become more frustrating to many members than they had been before. Most of us believe that it is due to the relaxation of rules and enforcement. If that is the way it is to be, then we adjust, leave, etc. I do not believe anyone here expects Rich to police a perfect site, stop every eye poke, etc., although he probably has/had a list of the chronic complainers. Never-the-less, it is his boat, and at one time he collected a fee for us to ride on it, with a certain set of rules and level of enforcement in place. After we paid, those things changed midstream. Not a big deal, but still not baseless as cause for frustration and modest complaint. To at least wish for more civility is noble.
Since I have chosen to post, here's an example which is not the policing of every eye-poke while still being a rules concern. We now have the entity "Shrillomn". An admitted alias. Here's a little exchange that Rich and I had on it last night in the "Chameleon Counters" thread:
I can accept this, if it is the "new rule", etc. But at the same time, we have posts being deleted in other threads because there is no name, or no full name, or two people are posting under the same account (or one using an account registered to their boyfriend, etc), even if signing their name, etc., in the text. I agree, that Rich has not the time to prove real names, etc. A few of us have noted that Pez was an admitted alias, and was such an admission necessary anyway ...... were any of us truly born last night ? Name ownership has varying degrees of personal accountability. Maybe only a smidgen among the worst of us, and the creation of Pez was obviously to avoid such accountability. I am no fan of Wes Pollack, the primary target of Pez, but Pez is a bad precedent for this site. Where name ownership is clearly violated, seems we now have a double standard. OK. We ask for enforcement or an explanation, and then we adjust or leave. Just me personally, I have zero motivation to be a part of a discussion where one member has zilch accountability for their words.
Not in full disagreement by any means ...... but
I believe the time honored expression of being "the Captain of this ship" is just that. For economic, time, personal, etc reasons, all of which are fine as it is Rich's site, things in Fauna and the BOI have become more frustrating to many members than they had been before. Most of us believe that it is due to the relaxation of rules and enforcement. If that is the way it is to be, then we adjust, leave, etc. I do not believe anyone here expects Rich to police a perfect site, stop every eye poke, etc., although he probably has/had a list of the chronic complainers. Never-the-less, it is his boat, and at one time he collected a fee for us to ride on it, with a certain set of rules and level of enforcement in place. After we paid, those things changed midstream. Not a big deal, but still not baseless as cause for frustration and modest complaint. To at least wish for more civility is noble.
Since I have chosen to post, here's an example which is not the policing of every eye-poke while still being a rules concern. We now have the entity "Shrillomn". An admitted alias. Here's a little exchange that Rich and I had on it last night in the "Chameleon Counters" thread:
I can accept this, if it is the "new rule", etc. But at the same time, we have posts being deleted in other threads because there is no name, or no full name, or two people are posting under the same account (or one using an account registered to their boyfriend, etc), even if signing their name, etc., in the text. I agree, that Rich has not the time to prove real names, etc. A few of us have noted that Pez was an admitted alias, and was such an admission necessary anyway ...... were any of us truly born last night ? Name ownership has varying degrees of personal accountability. Maybe only a smidgen among the worst of us, and the creation of Pez was obviously to avoid such accountability. I am no fan of Wes Pollack, the primary target of Pez, but Pez is a bad precedent for this site. Where name ownership is clearly violated, seems we now have a double standard. OK. We ask for enforcement or an explanation, and then we adjust or leave. Just me personally, I have zero motivation to be a part of a discussion where one member has zilch accountability for their words.
TomO said:
I believe there is some sort of system in the works to help take care of those who are donkeys. Rich has been dropping intriguing hints here and there.
It just remains to be seen how. exactly, one lassos, throws and brands the donkeys and then makes them live in the back 40 until they are more civilized donkeys...
lucille said:
Yeeessss..... exactly. Delegation. MAJOR delegation of this onerous task.
Ah yes... But upon being released from the back 40, are they not still donkeys, only with now the brand? You can take the donkey out of the back 40, but can you take the back 40 out of the donkey?lucille said:
The only thing I would want to know is who is who and which are the motives behind the anonymous poster's behavior. Are they engaging others just for fun, or are they being antagonistic to discredit competition. Most members in this site at one point or another buy or sell items that directly or indirectly compete. Buyers compete with each other for that special snake or item. When one exposes another as a problem individual he is discrediting him/her in his favor. The same goes for sellers; are they being lured by “anonymous individuals” to expose their behavior under pressure? Because of past experience with some individuals most people have arrived to the conclusion that the way a person behaves could very well mirror his business approach. So again, is the ulterior motive of those that lure individuals to react aimed at protecting the consumer or to discredit competition?
Similarly, the concept of “giving them enough rope” works if maintain under certain control. There’s an ongoing thread in the BOI where the individual has so much rope in his hands that he is using it to drag competition down with him. Yes, he may be hanging himself, but in the process he is making sure that the past of several other respected fellow herpers is also exposed. Things that otherwise would have never come out to light have surfaced. Is that behavior damaging potential competitors? Maybe not, but I wouldn’t doubt it’s planting the seed of doubt in several heads. Don’t think that because one sells venomous snakes and the other flex-watt they are not competitors; they are both after the same pool of money.
Similarly, the concept of “giving them enough rope” works if maintain under certain control. There’s an ongoing thread in the BOI where the individual has so much rope in his hands that he is using it to drag competition down with him. Yes, he may be hanging himself, but in the process he is making sure that the past of several other respected fellow herpers is also exposed. Things that otherwise would have never come out to light have surfaced. Is that behavior damaging potential competitors? Maybe not, but I wouldn’t doubt it’s planting the seed of doubt in several heads. Don’t think that because one sells venomous snakes and the other flex-watt they are not competitors; they are both after the same pool of money.
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
If you are referring to setting rules and sticking by them, well, that is what we do, equally. When rules are broken (for instance, if profanity is used), pm's are sent notifying the member. If it happens again they are normally given a temporary ban of some sort. The only users that have been banned permanently are spammers.
Wilomn
New member
Here's what I think of those who post anonymously.
IF you can't say, taking myself as an example, "My name is Wes and I think....." then NO MATTER what you say it shouldn't be given any credence.
It's sort of like those who come on a thread claiming to "speak" for all these OTHER people who either can't or won't speak for themselves yet when pressed for names, can't bring up a single one. Big deal. ANYONE can claim to speak for the unnamed masses. If you can't own it, it ain't worth the effort it took squat and squirt it out.
At least as far as I'm concerned.
IF you can't say, taking myself as an example, "My name is Wes and I think....." then NO MATTER what you say it shouldn't be given any credence.
It's sort of like those who come on a thread claiming to "speak" for all these OTHER people who either can't or won't speak for themselves yet when pressed for names, can't bring up a single one. Big deal. ANYONE can claim to speak for the unnamed masses. If you can't own it, it ain't worth the effort it took squat and squirt it out.
At least as far as I'm concerned.
Stardust
human
Personally I got tired of coming here and never knowing what rules changed and when. I did live and breath fauna for a time but still did not look at all the forums, just the ones that interested me.
In a quest to take as much drama out of my life as possible I stopped living fauna and other sites and concentrated on my real life and making it more forfilling. Fauna is the internet life and it would not behoove it, IMO, to make this a nicey nicey place with no drama. For one, with as much traffic it is hard to see this ever being accomplished and for another, people would get bored with it and no longer come here. There is something to be said about letting people hang themselves.
This site has grown well past the "dirty dozen" (is my memory correct? lol) and is a breathing internet entity. My sugestion, make some reasonable rules, stick with them and let it go from there, just like the beginning. Let's face it, it didn't grow because of its niceness. It grew from the many personalities that make it up, from the nitty gritty truth to the way the truth was brought out.
On a side note, the BOI still has its purpose and many use it as a guide to buying and selling, so in that sense, in my mind, Richs' mission was accomplished. That is the raw view, taking away everything else.
In a quest to take as much drama out of my life as possible I stopped living fauna and other sites and concentrated on my real life and making it more forfilling. Fauna is the internet life and it would not behoove it, IMO, to make this a nicey nicey place with no drama. For one, with as much traffic it is hard to see this ever being accomplished and for another, people would get bored with it and no longer come here. There is something to be said about letting people hang themselves.
This site has grown well past the "dirty dozen" (is my memory correct? lol) and is a breathing internet entity. My sugestion, make some reasonable rules, stick with them and let it go from there, just like the beginning. Let's face it, it didn't grow because of its niceness. It grew from the many personalities that make it up, from the nitty gritty truth to the way the truth was brought out.
On a side note, the BOI still has its purpose and many use it as a guide to buying and selling, so in that sense, in my mind, Richs' mission was accomplished. That is the raw view, taking away everything else.
Stardust
human
oh gee forgot, lol. On the stance of anonymous. As long as people still can not do it on the BOI then I guess it really doesn't matter. The BOI is the crux of what fauna is all about.
Stardust said:
Well that would be one of the better examples of "damned if I do and damed if I don't" kind of scenarios. Yeah, I have been damned up one side and down another for making changes in the rules here. Because I did so in order to try to adapt this site to changing conditions as the numbers of members grew, and as the overall environment here changed as well.
Quite certainly had I not changed the rules as adaptive feedback, I would have been soundly damned as well for not trying to keep up with the changes in the makeup of this site and being responsive to the needs of the members requesting such changes.
So I guess being damned just doesn't bother me any longer. It just took a while for ME to adapt and evolve into that kind of person.....
Seriously people are coming and going here all of the time. And in many cases, even those that have gone will be back eventually..... Even if it may be anonymously.....
Seamus Haley
Big Game Hunter
Chameleon Company said:
Pollock... is the man's last name. "Pollack" is a racial slur.
Chameleon Company
New member
Seamus,
Its a "typo", and happens to be a common last name, a type of fish, etc. If I wanted to "bad mouth" Wes, all I need to do is call him "Wes". Didn't know he was Polish anyway.
Its a "typo", and happens to be a common last name, a type of fish, etc. If I wanted to "bad mouth" Wes, all I need to do is call him "Wes". Didn't know he was Polish anyway.
Chameleon Company
New member
BTW, I believe it would be an "ethnic" slur, not a "racial" slur ..... wordsmith .
Seamus Haley
Big Game Hunter
Chameleon Company said:
Really? How's your keyboard arranged? 'cause on mine, the O and A aren't all that close to one another. "Pollsck" or perhaps "PollCK" would seem like a mistake one would make as a result of hitting the wrong key where "Pollack" is really more of a transposition of vowels. If it was a legitimate error, and given the animosity and familiarity involved here that seems unlikely, it was a mental one, not a physical one.
Wilomn
New member
Just for those who may be curious, two things.
1) He ain't polish that he knows of
2)3 results for: polack
View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
Po•lack ˈpoʊ lɑk, -læk - Show Spelled Pronunciation[poh-lahk, -lak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a Pole or person of Polish descent.
________________________________________
[Origin: 1590–1600; < Pol polak a Pole ]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
Po•lack (pō'lŏk', -lāk') Pronunciation Key
n.
1. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a person of Polish birth or descent.
2. Obsolete A native of Poland; a Pole.
[Polish Polak; see pelə-2 in Indo-European roots.]
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source
polack
noun
a person of Polish descent
WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
results for: pollock
View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
pol•lock ˈpɒl ək - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pol-uh k] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -locks, (especially collectively ) -lock. Chiefly British.
1. Also called saithe. a North Atlantic food fish, Pollachius virens, of the cod family.
2. POLLACK.
________________________________________
[Origin: var. of POLLACK ]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
Pol•lock ˈpɒl ək - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pol-uh k] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Sir Frederick, 1845–1937, English legal scholar and author.
2. Jackson, 1912–56, U.S. painter.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pol•lack also pol•lock (pŏl'ək) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. pollack or pol•lacks also pollock or pol•locks
A marine food fish (Pollachius virens) of northern Atlantic waters, related to the cod.
[Alteration of Scots podlok.]
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pol•lock (pŏl'ək) Pronunciation Key
n. Variant of pollack.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
Pol•lock (pŏl'ək) Pronunciation Key
American artist. Using his drip technique of painting, he became a leader of abstract expressionism.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source
pollock
noun
1. United States artist famous for painting with a drip technique; a leader of abstract expressionism in America (1912-1956)
2. lean white flesh of North Atlantic fish; similar to codfish [syn: pollack]
3. important food and game fish of northern seas (especially the northern Atlantic); related to cod [syn: pollack]
There's this really cool free site that I've given to a few folks before. Some of them are OBVIOUSLY TOO STUPID to use it, as they continually misuse words that are quite easy to look up and not only spell properly, but use properly as well.
PollAck is also a Jewish derivitive of the name, as I have been assured by several people of Jewish decent, though as far as I know there are no Jews in my family history. I've dated a couple, but that's as much infusion as I know of from that quater in my family line.
Seamus, it's the same on my keyboard as it is on yours. Maybe some are simply uncoordinated as well as stupid. I'd have no problem believing that.
Enough for todays fishing and ethnic news.
1) He ain't polish that he knows of
2)3 results for: polack
View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
Po•lack ˈpoʊ lɑk, -læk - Show Spelled Pronunciation[poh-lahk, -lak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a Pole or person of Polish descent.
________________________________________
[Origin: 1590–1600; < Pol polak a Pole ]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
Po•lack (pō'lŏk', -lāk') Pronunciation Key
n.
1. Offensive Slang Used as a disparaging term for a person of Polish birth or descent.
2. Obsolete A native of Poland; a Pole.
[Polish Polak; see pelə-2 in Indo-European roots.]
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source
polack
noun
a person of Polish descent
WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
results for: pollock
View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
pol•lock ˈpɒl ək - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pol-uh k] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -locks, (especially collectively ) -lock. Chiefly British.
1. Also called saithe. a North Atlantic food fish, Pollachius virens, of the cod family.
2. POLLACK.
________________________________________
[Origin: var. of POLLACK ]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
Pol•lock ˈpɒl ək - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pol-uh k] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Sir Frederick, 1845–1937, English legal scholar and author.
2. Jackson, 1912–56, U.S. painter.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pol•lack also pol•lock (pŏl'ək) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. pollack or pol•lacks also pollock or pol•locks
A marine food fish (Pollachius virens) of northern Atlantic waters, related to the cod.
[Alteration of Scots podlok.]
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pol•lock (pŏl'ək) Pronunciation Key
n. Variant of pollack.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
Pol•lock (pŏl'ək) Pronunciation Key
American artist. Using his drip technique of painting, he became a leader of abstract expressionism.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source
pollock
noun
1. United States artist famous for painting with a drip technique; a leader of abstract expressionism in America (1912-1956)
2. lean white flesh of North Atlantic fish; similar to codfish [syn: pollack]
3. important food and game fish of northern seas (especially the northern Atlantic); related to cod [syn: pollack]
There's this really cool free site that I've given to a few folks before. Some of them are OBVIOUSLY TOO STUPID to use it, as they continually misuse words that are quite easy to look up and not only spell properly, but use properly as well.
PollAck is also a Jewish derivitive of the name, as I have been assured by several people of Jewish decent, though as far as I know there are no Jews in my family history. I've dated a couple, but that's as much infusion as I know of from that quater in my family line.
Seamus, it's the same on my keyboard as it is on yours. Maybe some are simply uncoordinated as well as stupid. I'd have no problem believing that.
Enough for todays fishing and ethnic news.
Give it a rest, fellas. If you had a last name like "Zuchowski" you wouldn't get all uptight about someone spelling your name incorrectly.