Dan Scolaro bad guy.

[Uroboros]

And this is how you handle your screw ups.

You had a buyer with a snake die that was found to have "inclusions compatible with IBD" and all you have is personal attacks.

No concern what so ever.

That is what will count on the BOI. I have far more respect for people that are responsible here than don't. I did not buy a very nice emerald from another seller because she had a couple threads here that she did not respond to.

Keep on fighting, Dan, I'm sure you'll win someday. Probably the same day we pull out of Iraq.

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Herpinator:

What screw ups? What personal attacks? I never attacked anyone?

I sent a friend a healthy pair of boas and one died weeks later and I gave him his money back. Sue me for extending my guarantee.

A report a month later said some boa had IBD. I do not know if it was the boa he got from me, but if it was, I did not ram any IBD down the snake. I cared enough to ask the other buyer if his snakes were fine. What else do you want me to do? The boxes those snakes were in have long been stored elsewhere in a garage and washed beforehand, so burining down the house might piss off the wife.

This is not a thread about win or loose. It does not matter who wins what or who looses what because the other snake is great and AL said his boas are great.

So all is great.

When your emerald comes back with the diagnoses of rat pup inclusion disease (RPID), we can discuss that also.

Dan



And this is how you handle your screw ups.

You had a buyer with a snake die that was found to have "inclusions compatible with IBD" and all you have is personal attacks.

No concern what so ever.

That is what will count on the BOI. I have far more respect for people that are responsible here than don't. I did not buy a very nice emerald from another seller because she had a couple threads here that she did not respond to.

Keep on fighting, Dan, I'm sure you'll win someday. Probably the same day we pull out of Iraq

 

[MikeCurtin]

Probably the same day we pull out of Iraq.

Don't be a douche...this isn't the place

 

[Uroboros]

yeah, sorry, I was out of line with that.

 

[Cat_72]

Has anyone provided any smart information on how that bloat happen in the snake? I don't read anywhere where that a snake will bloat out like a blimp from IBD, so look at the picture of that snake and tell my it looks like IBD virus.

Since you asked....

Also noted in the path report was presence of the Klebsiella Oxytoca bacterium.

Some info on this particular bacterium:

Klebsiella are opportunistic pathogens that can cause pneumonia, urinary tract infections, and bacteremia. Originally called Aerobacter, it was later called Klebsiella pneumoniae but was recently re-classified as K. oxytoca. Klebsiella oxytoca have been isolated from healthy and ill captive reptiles, becoming invasive when conditions either change the resistance of the host or select for pathogenic organisms.

Enterobacter and Klebsiella: These organisms are often considered together, as most strains of these genera are distinguished easily by their ability to ferment lactose rapidly to acid and gas.

My theory would be that the IBD had already weakened the immune system of the animal, and this bacteria took over, causing the bloat. Simple enough.

I may have been inclined to believe that you simply missed seeing this, since you said:

No parasites were present nor bacteria as in the case with this snake.

And this:

Buyer sent it off for an exam and the exam said it had no parasites, no bacteria, and had bone cells present which obviously came from the snake being strangled by its mate in the bag.

And of course, you don't lie.

But.....when you say things like:

FACT is that the other boas are thriving and there was never any mention of IBD virus in the report

And this:

Gave the guy back more than half his money and the other snake is fine and no virus was indicated in the other snake.

When the path report specifically says:

Multiple eosinophilic inclusion bodies are observed in cells within the stomach, small intestine, liver, and kidney. The microscopic lesions are compatible with inclusion body disease of snakes. The etiology of inclusion body disease is considered to be a retrovirus.

I tend to believe that you are full of .

 

[Cat_72]

Cat: What lie. I never lie. What deception?

I said the report said IBD in the first page of this and never denied it said IBD.

FACT is that the other boas are thriving and there was never any mention of IBD virus in the report

And I find it odd, that this man you keep referring to as a friend of yours (of course, since he's a friend, you'd NEVER send him a sick animal), has these things to say about you Dan:

He won’t hesitate screwing someone once he figures out he can get away with it.

Extreme ego. Out of control. Scum bag all the way!!!

The trouble with Dan is he’s just so full of himself. Too smart for his own good. I call him “Little Bitch”.

If that's what your friends think of you, I think it's time to find some new friends, really.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Since you asked....

Also noted in the path report was presence of the Klebsiella Oxytoca bacterium.

Some info on this particular bacterium:

Klebsiella are opportunistic pathogens that can cause pneumonia, urinary tract infections, and bacteremia. Originally called Aerobacter, it was later called Klebsiella pneumoniae but was recently re-classified as K. oxytoca. Klebsiella oxytoca have been isolated from healthy and ill captive reptiles, becoming invasive when conditions either change the resistance of the host or select for pathogenic organisms.

Enterobacter and Klebsiella: These organisms are often considered together, as most strains of these genera are distinguished easily by their ability to ferment lactose rapidly to acid and gas.

My theory would be that the IBD had already weakened the immune system of the animal, and this bacteria took over, causing the bloat. Simple enough.

Very good Cathy.

 

[spawn]

Cathy has you by the balls, Dan. Just to add fuel to the fire [and because I was going to post it but she beat me to it], I will reiterate your blasphemous pledge to yourself that you yourself violated:

Originally Posted by Dan Scolaro
FACT is that the other boas are thriving and there was never any mention of IBD virus in the report

in response to:

Originally Posted by Dan Scolaro
Frank:

I said the report said IBD in the first page of this and never denied it said IBD.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Maybe we can turn all this negative into a positive...

In visiting with Dr. Jacobson (yes, the IBD expert) he agreed that the histopathology report is pretty straight forward, and it seems we are in the presence of IBD. He would further like to see a few images of the slides although I would think they would be very difficult to obtain right now.

At this point Dr. Jacobson's lab is working on developing a molecular diagnostic test to screen for IBD. Is there any chance we can get a few mites from where that boa was kept in? Once his research group develops this molecular diagnostics test, they will be able to screen snake mites to see if they are carriers or a transport host.

Erik,

Let's hope your snake comes negative, but if it does show inclusion bodies and you want a second opinion from Dr. Jacobson we can send the slides to Gainesville for him to take a look at them. Maybe (and for the sake of learning more about this disease) Dan can help us out by sending some mites that might have been around the area where this ETB was kept.

Regards.

 

[Craigh]

Dan G,
Think there is anyway possible to have the Dr. email you his professional opinion on the report. Something that solid might really detour anyone from buying from Dan and can possible stop any further spread of the virus.

Just a thought,
Craig

 

[The BoidSmith]

Craig,

I'd rather not at this point, as professional courtesy for his deference. Although he feels the results are straightforward, nevertheless he would still like to see the histopathology smears (or their pictures) for the kind of inclusion bodies present. Dr. Jacobson would be very appreciative if any of the parties involved could send him some mites that were associated with the problem. You can send them to me or to him directly at the University of FL.

Best regards,

Dan G.

 

[MikeCurtin]

At this point, I think the best thing to do is convince Dan to suspend his Boid sales.

Dan, I'm not saying not to sell ANYTHING, but since Boids aren't your main interest, as you've stated, what harm would it do to stick w/ venomous and colubrids right now? There's not a large enough volume of people here to eliminate any further spread IF this virus is in any of the animals you currently have.

There is too much proof to deny the fact that it has been found in a snake that your collection could have been exposed to. You have confused the snake(s) in question with other snakes you have had in your home earlier in this post, which shows an error in record keeping on your part. At this point, I don't believe you can say conclusively what has and has not been exposed to potentially infected snakes.

As of right now, the responsibility falls on your shoulders to take the steps necessary to honestly look at the potential here. You seem like a nice enough guy. Please step up and do the right thing here.

Mike

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Well an impartial buyer (AL) who examined the exact snake in question has provided verification that the snake was healthy. They were all bagged several times together, and the other snakes continue to thrive. So if indeed that snake had some type of virus, then why hasn't any other snakes shown with any issues/diseases? Would killing off the other snakes and completing an exam verify this as a virus or is this a simple case of inclusion cells which developed from the snake being strangled or having its intestine blocked since the report did not indicate a blockage.

I understand the report showed IBD, but since it was told to me that this buyer had issues with IBD before, are there any photos of the exact snake that was examined to provide concrete evidence/solid proof that it was indeed the same snake that was shipped healthy? Or are we all just speculating here that the snake that was examined is the same snake Al and myself examined as healthy? You guys are so willing to tie the noose and hang, but you do not have any solid evidence it was the same snake. Why was the buyer upset when someone else tried to contact the examiner? What is there to hide? Can the examiner come on here with proof and/or any evidence or a photo of the snake he examined so we can all be sure?

However the specimen in question remained alive for many days if not weeks after being strangled with that bloat, and apparently that bloat did not subside or go away. Could those other findings/cells developed/festered during this time and demised the snake eventually?

I contacted a vet for his opinion. He said if the snake suffered trauma and lived for several days, it is possible those inclusion cells could develop.

And again, if this was a virus, then how come the other snakes don't have it?

Boidsmith: There are no mites boidsmith and any reference to the such is just another idiotic statement from you - more delusions. If you are still pissed and upset that I did not accept your low ball offers on the central amerian boa and the baby emerald that sold a few days ago, then go and cry in another venue and quite trying to fool anyone with your nasty tactics as if you are some impartial interested party to all of this. I have checked your references boidsmith, and so far everyone said you are an idiot and a jerk. Since you are pissed at me for declining your low ball offers, why are you pursuing any interest in this matter at all? Secondly, we are competitors in the market, so by that mere fact, you cannot remain impartial. It is a conflict of interest for you to be anywhere involved in any fact finding and/or investigation work about this issue. Anything you say or find is immediately discredited, so go back and hide in your hole and do not think you can fool anyone. You are just a sore loser.

Regardless, what is it you loosers are trying to prove? The buyer received a refund and the snakes have been gone from here for months. All is fine here and should any buyer indicate any issues with the snakes, I am sure they will pursue medical attention and we will remedy the problem as necessary.

Of course its been several months, but I can extend my guarantee because that is just how nice I am.

Dan

 

[The BoidSmith]

I understand the report showed IBD, but since it was told to me that this buyer had issues with IBD before, are there any photos of the exact snake that was examined to provide concrete evidence/solid proof that it was indeed the same snake that was shipped healthy? Or are we all just speculating here that the snake that was examined is the same snake Al and myself examined as healthy? You guys are so willing to tie the noose and hang, but you do not have any solid evidence it was the same snake. Why was the buyer upset when someone else tried to contact the examiner? What is there to hide? Can the examiner come on here with proof and/or any evidence or a photo of the snake he examined so we can all be sure?

That’s a different spin of events and I can’t state it’s not possible.

I contacted a vet for his opinion. He said if the snake suffered trauma and lived for several days, it is possible those inclusion cells could develop.

You can go directly to the source that deals with this disease, contact Dr. Jacobson, he will be more than happy to help you understand the origin of the body inclusion cells. You mentioned he is a former client of your, he would have no problem in explaining everything to you.

And again, if this was a virus, then how come the other snakes don't have it?

Again to the nth time, any and all snakes can have it, they just don’t show the symptoms.

Boidsmith: There are no mites boidsmith and any reference to the such is just another idiotic statement from you - more delusions.

Again, I’m going by your statements and one of your client’s. You sent him a boa with a strip to combat mites.

If you are still pissed and upset that I did not accept your low ball offers on the central amerian boa and the baby emerald that sold a few days ago, then go and cry in another venue and quite trying to fool anyone with your nasty tactics as if you are some impartial interested party to all of this.

Central American boas are not my thing, not even emeralds! Show me the e-mail where I inquired about your CA boas and I’ll purchase all the boas you have for sale, mites included …The ETB that was offered by DTS Herps seemed like a good addition to my collection, when you replied offering it for $50 less and I noticed who was selling it I completely lost interest; the fact is that I didn’t even replied to you. Right?

I have checked your references boidsmith, and so far everyone said you are an idiot and a jerk.

Yes,you are right, there are several that are mad at me Tornambene, Gubitz, Eisenmann, Guida….and now Scolaro; you are in good company…

Since you are pissed at me for declining your low ball offers, why are you pursuing any interest in this matter at all?

Just because it’s “the right thing to do” if I want to have a sustainable hobby; you may look the meaning of that statement in the dictionary.
Since you are pissed at me for declining your low ball offers, why are you pursuing any interest in this matter at all?

Secondly, we are competitors in the market, so by that mere fact, you cannot remain impartial. It is a conflict of interest for you to be anywhere involved in any fact finding and/or investigation work about this issue. Anything you say or find is immediately discredited, so go back and hide in your hole and do not think you can fool anyone. You are just a sore loser.

Wrong again Dan, no competition here, we just breed and keep reptiles for fun, do we sell some every now and then? Yes.

Regardless, what is it you loosers are trying to prove? The buyer received a refund and the snakes have been gone from here for months. All is fine here and should any buyer indicate any issues with the snakes, I am sure they will pursue medical attention and we will remedy the problem as necessary.

Dan,

Don’t get all upset here. We are not trying to prove anything here, it has already been proven. You sent a snake with IBD. Does that mean your collection has it? We don’t know maybe you were lucky enough and the mites that you admitted your ETB had did not cross-infected sick and clean snakes.

Let’s keep the discussion civil and down to facts. Most of us here are just concerned hobbyists. Now I better go back to work!

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Mike:

It has been months since those snakes departed.

There is no evidence to suggest the bagged mates have any virus or diseases and they are all thriving. There is no evidence that suggests the snake had any IBD when it was here. That snake was healthy when packed and it arrived bloated and the inclusion cells developed at the buyers place.

But lets just say for a moment that I am wrong about where the disease developed?

It has been a few months since this so called virus could have been here.

How long would you think it would linger?

2 weeks, 30 days, 40 days, 60 days?

Well its been about that or longer, so I am not convinced there were or are any boa diseases here. I just bought 3 more last week and they are fine.

I have a very large collection of rare reptiles, and if I thought any risk was here, I would be very concerned of course.

Dan



At this point, I think the best thing to do is convince Dan to suspend his Boid sales.

Dan, I'm not saying not to sell ANYTHING, but since Boids aren't your main interest, as you've stated, what harm would it do to stick w/ venomous and colubrids right now? There's not a large enough volume of people here to eliminate any further spread IF this virus is in any of the animals you currently have.

There is too much proof to deny the fact that it has been found in a snake that your collection could have been exposed to. You have confused the snake(s) in question with other snakes you have had in your home earlier in this post, which shows an error in record keeping on your part. At this point, I don't believe you can say conclusively what has and has not been exposed to potentially infected snakes.

As of right now, the responsibility falls on your shoulders to take the steps necessary to honestly look at the potential here. You seem like a nice enough guy. Please step up and do the right thing here.

Mike

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Boidsmith:

You're not fooling anyone.

The disease died within that snake in Texas not here.

So if you are truly and deeply conerned, they why not telephone that lab that did the exam and warn them of the virus?

It is not here, so why are you even bothering me about it or mentioning my name?

Dan

 

[Dan Scolaro]

Yes, lets put some proof on the table.

Someone post a photo of that exact snake in the exam. The lab should have it frozen?

If that evidence cannot be provided, then the case is dismissed.

And everyone can go back to picking their behinds.

Dan

 

[Craigh]

Dan so call the lab saying your the importer/seller of the snakes in question and ask for
pictures for your record. Do your own dirty work. The guy you sold them to by what he posted in this thread seems to be a very unstable individual. You can also buy the snake that he still has and get it tested. Do something cause I have yet to see you do anything on this matter........

 

[Craigh]

Yes, lets put some proof on the table.

Someone post a photo of that exact snake in the exam. The lab should have it frozen?

If that evidence cannot be provided, then the case is dismissed.

And everyone can go back to picking their behinds.

Dan

And what evidence have you show Dan ? IMHO NONE

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Boidsmith:

You're not fooling anyone.

The disease died within that snake in Texas not here.

So if you are truly and deeply conerned, they why not telephone that lab that did the exam and warn them of the virus?

It is not here, so why are you even bothering me about it or mentioning my name?

Dan

I tried doing that, remember? But John decided it was more beneficial for him to tell them not to tell anyone about his case( which i wasnt going to ask for any personal information to begin with), and why would i bring more drama to them by harassing them for more information about this virus? It just wouldnt be right.

I got in contact with Dr. Fitzgerald ( the guy from Alameda East, emergency vets) because i knew he worked with reptiles. He told me some things about IBD and some new findings about it as well ( They seem to be finding it in other snakes as well now, He gave me kingsnakes as an example* though it very well could be something similar, and not the exact same thing*. He also referred me to Dr. Douglas Mader. so i sent an email to his practice in FL to speak with him about the subject. They wanted me to pay a 75.00 fee to get more information about it through my vet through a phone consultation, im choosing not to go that route because there are easier options, and more willing people whom i can talk to about this virus that dont charge me a fee. ( i understand this mans time is valuable, truly, but for something this serious i was hoping for some information that could prove useful)

Im glad to see Dan (The Boidsmith) is talking to Dr. Jacobson and hope that he can find out more information for all of us. Good luck on that!!