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Dawn Grassi

..

I think anybody reading this whole thread would consider the breeder a "good guy". I would very much like to know who it is because this is the kind of person most here would be happy to do business with.
 
We offered the same resolution that the breedeer did.So why are we still bad dealers?????
 
No you didn't, not til the breeder became aware of what was going on and offered to do the refund, unconditionally.

8 hours ago this is your statement
I offered a refund and she must arrive alive for the refund to be issued
Lisa will make ever attempt to ensure that, but the dragon is not in good shape and she could not do that and be out another shipping fee, if the dragon did not survive another shipping in a few days time. NOT the best of situations even for one in peak health.

This is fine, better than fine, the dragon is going back to the breeder that hatched and rasied her til you bought her. As fast as possible overnight... evening pick up and A.M. delivery. She should have the best chance with someone who raised her and cared for her, there is a bond there and she will remember it and be more comfortable too.

That is an AWESOME person!

Even AFTER Lisa was dealing with the breeder, you continue on harping on her. Sorry, you do not compare with how this was handled once the breeder was aware of it.
 
JOHN HIT IT RIGHT ON,,,

I THINK IF THE BREEDER IS WILLING TO DO THIS AFTER THIS AMOUNT OF TIME,, THEY ARE TO BE COMMENDED,,,
It just makes sense to name the breeder unless they DO have someting to hide....
the name will get out as these things always do,,, it is better to come out with the name of the breeder, than for it to come out in the "whispers" of the herp world as then it surely looks like the breeder has something to hide,,,,

As for Jeffy,,, I reread the thread,, and CheriS is correct you had stiplulations,,, and was willing to give a refund only from the pressure of the BOI and still it was an offer with a grudge,,,!
Mr Grassi... if there was a problem, you would have been better off to fix it before it got to be all these pages,,
Problems can always arise,, but it is how they are handled that are the true mark of the person,,,,
 
To Jeff Grassi:

Possible Scenario #1: You realized the beardie was sick, wanted to offload her before she died, you maliciously put her up for sale, posted pictures of her that did not show the outward signs of her illness, and accepted money happily. In other words, you really ARE a bad guy!

Possible Scenario #2: You knew about the droopy eye but unlike the toes and tail, did not feel this was an important fact to disclose before selling. You coincidentally did not post pictures that showed the droopy eye. You were shocked to learn that some people considered this a bad thing and even misrepresentation. In other words, you are a Good Guy, and it's all been a huge misunderstanding.

In either case above, you knew the beardie had droopy eyes. Which you have admitted. The situation was brought to the BOI. A PUBLIC forum where people who are concerned that BAD GUYS don't get to practice their bad-guy-ism on the unsuspecting public. Good guys and bad guys have been brought to the BOI as suspected bad guys. There always turns out to be a specific difference between the bad guys and the good guys. Occasionally there are a few people who remain in the gray areas, where some feel tey are bad guys, some feel they are good guys, and some don't know, but usually it becomes VERY clear after a short period of time. Please try to pay attention Jeff, as the following is very important to understand.

BAD GUYS always do some or all of the following: shout (using all caps), blame the victim, Threaten the WebSlave with lawsuits, act unprofessionally, often display a moral lacking... not even understanding WHY their actions are considered wrong, they tell everyone else to butt out, they tell everyone else that it isn't their business, they DON'T ANSWER QUESTIONS, and they get rude. I'm sure I forgot a few things, but those are some of the typical responses of bad guys.

GOOD GUYS are usually just as shocked as bad guys to find their names on the BOI. They will be read the accusations and instead of yelling, name calling, or other non-professional, non-adult mannerisms, they will answer each accusation with the truth, backed up with as much proof as is possible, with a calm demeanor. Other people who have dealt with them usually end up feeling compelled to stand up for the good guy so wrongly accused. They are usually never compelled by the BOI to do the right thing, as they have always done the right thing from the beginning.

Now a very important thing to notice: EVEN GOOD GUYS MAKE MISTAKES. Honest mistakes happen to all of us. Good guys try to make right without arguing how little they are to blame.

Jeff, in this thread you have demonstrated some of the traits of both types of sellers.... good guys and bad guys. Your claims that aren't backed up with proof (and YES, we KNOW this isn't a court of law, this is a court of PEERS), and that are often backed up with "it's none of your business" are those of a bad guy. This is why everyone on this thread is applauding the breeder and NOT applauding YOU.

Read the BOI, Learn what good guys do, BE A GOOD GUY, and you won't have many of these things come to light and put you in the "BAD GUY" label.
 
Cheri Smith

Cheri,Contact the breeder.I offered the unconditional refund before I contacted the breeder.Ask him. Also if I was trying to rip her off then why did I contact the breeder??Because I was in total shock of all of these accusations about this dragon.Cheri you know the breeder and know he has excellent animals.If I thought there was a problem with this dragon he would have been notified.I guess you did not understand this situation with the breeder.I told him what was going on and he feels bad to,so he is buying the dragon back from me.So I'm still the bad person?????? I also do know that you and Lisa are friends so just leave it be.I AM THE PERSON REFUNDING HER MONEY!! Why keep harrassing me?????Aren't I doing the right thing?? I did not have to give a refund and everybody know that! I am doing it because I honestly did not know the dragon was sick and the breeder of the dragon is buying her back from me because he didn't know either.It is starting to sound like the only one doing the wrong thing is YOU by continuing to complain!! You did not even buy the dragon.You put your 50 cents worth in already,people usually put thier 2 cents in but you went overboard. I AM HANDLING THIS SITUATION,PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY MORE LIES.I can have some of your lies verified by the breeder and you know that.I am not trying to put anyone down here.I am trying to end this problem,but you won't stop.
 
Since I started this thread.......

I think we should ALL take a break and wait and see what happens Tuesday when the breeder gets the dragon back and I get the remaining refund. The thread is here, people have posted their opinons and knowledge on the subjects that have been brought up.


Can we all just "cool it" for a couple days and lets see how things play out from here?
 
THANK YOU LISA!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU LISA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I AM SORRY FOR SENDING YOU A DRAGON THAT MAY HAVE A SEVERE ILLNESS,I HONESTLY DID NOT KNOW IT HAD A MEDICAL PROBLEM.THAT IS WHY I CONTACTED THE BREEDER TODAY.TOO FIND OUT IF HE KNEW WHAT IT WAS.YOU WILL GET YOUR MONEY BACK FOR SURE,FROM ME. CHERI S PLEASE STAY OUT OF THIS AND SEE IF I DO THE RIGHT THING HERE OR NOT.
 
My conversation with the original breeder,,,

I had a good 45 minute conversation with the original breeder,,, he was concerned about the well being of the animal,, but also wanted to make sure that Lisa was done right even if he had to pay for it out of his own pocket,, ( He did not even sell the dragon to Lisa,,) After our conversation i came away with three things,,,

First he is a stand up guy who will do the right thing even if he is not at "fault"....

Second,, he does care about his animals,, as we talked about how he houses, handles, suppliments, and feeds his animals,,,

Third He is just an all around "good guy" who , does not want to be caught up in a thread that does not have any direct reflection on anything he did or did not do,,, ( nor should he be caught up in the thread,, ) How can you hold a guy accountable for a sale from 2 or more months ago,, and then the second party sells the animal in question to a third party,,, ( simply you can't)......

The bottom line in my mind is that i hope Lisa gets her refund,, and The breeder does get to the bottom of what is going on with the dragon, as it could help us all if something like this were to happen again,,, I hope the breeder will release the findings to all of us so we can add to the collective knowledge of the bearded dragon world,,,
 
Does anybody realize that I am the one refunding the money??Also the breeder has been to my home and has seen my dragons.Those of you that know who he is can ask him of thier conditions.They are first and foremost kept as pets,they are fed very well and receive any and all necessary supplements and UVA/UVB lighting.Thier cages are very clean and they are handled regularly.I could have alot of people on here posting that they bought dragons from me and really like them,but what's the sense?CHERI and JOE,I know the breeder told you both about my animals and thier conditions,and that I had no knowledge of the dragon I sold to Lisa being sick.SO WHY DON'T YOU POST THAT STUFF????? I have some very beautiful dragons and many people will vouch for that.There is way to much hatred in this forum.The reptile community should work together and not fight.This dragon in question was just received on Friday,2 days ago and look at all of this negativity.Shouldn't you be allowed a few days to work problems out???Or do you have to do it immediately??? I have great bloodlines and dragons.If interested let me know.I'll show you pics of my dragons,cages etc. I AM NOT A BAD GUY!!HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE REALIZED ONCE THIS DEAL IS OVER.IT SURE WOULD BE NICE TO SEE SOMEONE POST THE POSITIVE COMMENTS THAT THE BREEDER HAS TOLD YOU ABOUT US AND OUR DRAGONS.
 
LAST POST

Lisa,we are very sorry about this matter with the dragon.Honestly it was not intentional.We hope you will be happy on tuesday when you receive the rest of your money.We already paypaled(the breeder)He will send it to you upon receipt of the dragon,and hopefully you will return to this forum and post that everything worked out and that you have no complaints with us anymore.Thanks,Jeff and Dawn
 
Wow what a mess

I think Jeff is trying to do the right thing as far as making things right. Whether his husbandry is poor and cause of the droopy eyes or there is nothing negative related to droopy eyes other than staying up all night, or dehydration, the seller is still trying to make things right. Although I do think he might've BSed about having a vet exam.


I also would like to bring up the fact that "CheriS", "Lisa", "Tracey" and "axe" are all friends. Actually I believe cheri and axe are related. I've seen them all get together & jointly attack anyone who goes against their beardie caretaking philosophies in the KS forum. Nothing against you guys, I just thought it'd be fair to let everyone know where the droopy eyes idea might possibly be coming from. Hopefully not.
 
Yes, Cheri is a friend.....Lisa is fairly new to me as someone I talk to though I've known of her for awhile now.....I don't really know Axe, though know of him.....

Lisa asked my opinion on the pictures before I even knew what was going on.....I gave it, and it hasn't changed regardless of what Cheri or anyone else would say.....

I don't agree with people because they are my friends, I agree because we have the same belief about something, and they are not my friends because we agree either.....I'm way to old to play that game

Actually, Lisa and I have different husbandry styles, but I felt she was wronged and so I got involved in the posts when asked to post my opinion.........
 
Re: Wow what a mess

BossReptiles said:

I've seen them all get together & jointly attack anyone who goes against their beardie caretaking philosophies in the KS forum.

I am sorry, but this particular statement is NOT true! I would like to know which threads on the KS beardie forum I have ever attacked anyone? Especially in combination with the other names you listed. If you actually read the KS board, you will see that more often than not, I either stay out of the "heated topics" or I dissagree with Cheri and others quite a lot.... I have NEVER attacked anyone over there on KS and have even made posts regarding the "atmosphere" over there at times.


As to Tracey, Cheri, Axe and I being friends.....

I have never met Tracey, only know her through KS. Cheri and Axe I met once last year at the Daytona reptile show and that was only for a couple hours. I also only really "know" them from the KS board.

I asked that this entire thread be left alone until Tuesday, so that we could all see how this ended. I am still asking that!
 
Nothing against you guys, I just thought it'd be fair to let everyone know where the droopy eyes idea might possibly be coming from.

Thats a pretty off base and pulled out of the air statement, we've making up diseases and medical problems now to come and pick on Jeffy? How about being fair about medical fact?

Eye problems in bearded dragons/renal
Another one on BD's and droopy eyes/renal
Hypothyroidism and Vitamin B
Neruological and droopy eyes

None of us hid the fact that we saw a post with a picture on another forum we use. If we see something and know about it, we're friends? We know her from the forum and saw a post there that shows a dragon with a condition that is recognized by most bearded dragon owners as a serious problem. It has nothing to do with being a friend or not.

I posted about it there (as did many others, said the same thing) and Lisa contacted me. I advised her to contact the seller and return the dragon. When that went nowhere and the seller made a claim of a medical checkup and clean bill of health (which we knew was a lie or a darn poor vet), I advised her to take it to BOI....... thats what it is for......right?

Axe and I are not related. And did you ever *think* along with the thinking he "might've BSed about having a vet exam" that we say the same thing on a forum because it's a fact, we have experience with it or work in a medical field with bearded dragons so we all know the same thing?

I agree with everything Tracey, who has some of the oldest and longest living bearded dragons in the US, said above and the reason why.

beardie caretaking philosophies: yes, I do disagree with people who don't keep their animals under UVB lights and stunt their growth, people who breed animals to young to make a quicker buck, advise new people the same thing and people who do not inform buyers of a problem with a dragon before they sell and ship it.

Shame on me and all that agree with that!
 
I talked to Jeff,,,,

Well About Midnight last night i talked to Jeff,,,
He seems like a pretty good guy... My gut feeling is that he really did not realize the dragon had droopy eyes,, and sold the animal as what he thought was a healthy animal,,, However he does seem to realize that lashing back out at Lisa and everyone else here was not the right move,,, From what i take from our convo,, he felt like he was being attacked for something he really did not "know" and understand was a problem,,, So of course he was defending himself,,, The bottom line is he got with the breeder,( to discuss the issue) forwarded the money via paypal to the breeder to send the remaining refund back to Lisa when the dragon arives back,,,,
I explained 2 or 3 times to put himself in Lisas shoes,,, how would you feel if you just spent 240.00 of your hard earned money,, and got a dragon that appeared in good condition,,, and on closer inspection there was a problem that you overlooked in the initial inspection out of the box,,,,, Then you contact the seller,, he gives you all kind of "flack" about not wanting to take the animal back,, not wanting to refund only part of the payment,, have all kinds of stipulations about the shipping back of the animal,,, etc,,, After hearing all of this from a third person and putting it all in perspective from the third person, i think Jeff may now understand why everyone was on his "case". I explained to him, everyone out there has been "taken" by another person in the herp world,, we all have had that sinking feeling in the pit of our stomachs when we realize somthing is not"right" but it is too late to fix it, or no way to get a refund, or a replacement,, so you have spent your hard earned money,, and end up very unhappy with the purchase or worse yet,, you send the money to someone and they run off with it,, and you get nothing,,, so i think he understands that we are all trying to "help" each other keep from being taken,,, In my humble opinion he was not trying to "take " anyone,, i don't think he realized the dragon had a problem at all,,,, i think in good faith he sold what was a "healthy" dragon ( to him) ... But i also think he handled this situation wrong, and should of refunded the money the minute there was a problem from Lisa,,, it could have saved a lot of grief,, and a lot of webspace,,,, Jeff said that Lisa posted a good feedback,, and that appears to be so,, but in only 24 more hours a problem developed or something was overlooked in the initial inspection,, that does not release someone from doing the right thing by the customer,,,,, If someone spends there hard earned money with me and they are unhappy in anyway, i will make it right no questions asked,,, and i think that in the competitive market we are in now with the internet,, it is the only way a business can survive,, Treat the customer with respect,, and give them more than they paid for,,, that is the way i try and be,, And remember the customer can spend their hard earned money anywhere be happy they chose you to spend it with,,, and treat them like you appreciate it,, As I know i sure do!
 
Geeze, I was obviously tired last night....didn't even notice the "attack" comment.

Lisa is correct, she usually stays out of the heated discussions, if she does give her opinion, she is often not in agreement with me, which is fine.

If giving ones opinion and not backing down is considered attacking someone, then I guess I'm guilty.....I never name call but because I won't agree, I often get called names and those who agree with me are often called names as well.....I don't compromise where my strong beliefs are concerned and I shouldn't have to and neither should anyone else. I most often try to "agree to disagree" but some people just can't handle that and come back at me again, so I guess really you've got the attack role reversed.

Why don't you reread the old KS posts before commenting that someone attacks others......just like on KS, give me facts to back up what you say or if I have a different opinion it will stay that way, words alone don't sway me.

Lisa....I appologize for continuing this thread but as you did, I need to defend myself as well.......had I been more observant last night I would've addressed this in my other post....
 
I defense of Lisa

BOSSREPTILES SAID:
"I also would like to bring up the fact that "CheriS", "Lisa", "Tracey" and "axe" are all friends. Actually I believe cheri and axe are related. I've seen them all get together & jointly attack anyone who goes against their beardie caretaking philosophies in the KS forum. "

Being the focus of many a "joint attack", I would like to point out in fairness that I have never been "attacked" by Lisa. I consider Lisa a good friend. Lisa knows my "beardie caretaking philosophies" and I know hers, and we both respect each others. In addition, I have never seen her involved in what you call a "joint attck" with any of the other you mention.
thank you,
Bill DiFabio
 
Please read

We are the ones that this whole thing was started over,and are doing our best to make things right.Please,everybody let's not attack anyone.We are obviously all into reptiles and the reptile community needs to stick together.We respect everyones opinions and wish we could have solved this immediately!!! It seems to have really gotten carried away and there is a resolution coming tomorrow to end the problem.Let's all get along and not point the finger at anyone unless the matter is not resolved.We are just wanting a peaceful resolution to this whole problem and do not want others arguing,even if our names aren't what you are arguing over,which has been the case with last few posts.WE ARE TOTALLY SORRY,Thanks once again,Jeff and Dawn
 
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