East coast colubrids Peter Jolles

[Chameleon Company]

Ditto's

 

[homegrownherps]

If a potential buyer wants to insult the breeder by offering less then what he/she asks for his animals, then that person should be ready and willing to accept the answer no matter what it is. And if it’s not the answer he/she wants to hear, they shouldn't come running to a public forum and whine about it.

 

[kmurphy]

I disagree wholeheartedly. The original poster did not have a valid complaint for the BOI. No deal went bad, no animals died because of Peter's husbandry practices, and no one lost any money. What we had was a rude reply to an email. Plain and simple.....

I disagree with you Ron. While this thread was fun for a while and certainly got off track a bit this is a BOI concern and here's why I feel that way. The basic purpose of the BOI is to inform others of how buyers & sellers conduct business. We have had BOI threads concerning difficult buyers, why not one for difficult sellers? Someone coming here might say "I don't want to do business with Peter" or maybe they don't care. Either way the information is in the BOI where it should be.

Also, Kevin(the other one) possibly lost out on a purchase because he was never given a chance to accept the original price.

ps - Rich could you put BOI in your dictionary. Thanks

 

[ravensgait]

Good point Kevin!

I can remember a thread by Matt (MGReptiles) from a year ago , when I asked if a thread like that belonged on the BOI IE being a preemptive strike no one seemed to think it didn't belong Then and proceeded to tear the buyer apart.. This forum is to let us know who we may be dealing with. Peter has shown most here(by their responses) that they don't want to deal with an obnoxious seller. You may not think it belongs here but seems many disagree with you...

Better to find out what someone is like before you give them money,, gee that's one of the reasons for this forum isn't it... I believe JimO mentioned it earlier in this thread IE how someone deals with a problem!! This guy went off before there was a deal, and from Rich's post we saw how he deals with a problem of his own making IE Very Poorly!
The original poster must have been pretty interested to have bothered to start this thread....

Seems to me that if we don't want to bother with customers there is an easy answer don't offer anything for sale.
Randy

 

[JoeEllisReptiles]

Peter Jolles!!!

I have dealt with Peter Jolles in the past. He is a stand up guy who has the BEST animals. I met up with him once and he even bought me lunch. I would buy from Peter any day of the week. He has the best deals too. Keep it up Pete. You are doing a great job.

Joe Ellis
Norfolk, Va

 

[Chameleon Company]

I think that any comparison to MG Reptiles is a stretch. I think it safe to say that while no one wants to deal with an obnoxious seller , Pete is not obnoxious in the majority of his deals. As usual, to each his own. Some will evaluate Pete poorly for his response and participation here. Others not. Some will see the entire thread as being a huge exercise in chest thumping and petty squabbles, or 240+ posts of much-ado-about-nothing. It is certainly not all for naught, as it did provide a few examples of how not to put one's best foot forward, or how not to manage a complaint here. Last but not least, it does seem to have provided the Fauna drama for a day or two.

 

[thomas davis]

well

thats exactly how i feel...
Seems to me that if we don't want to bother with customers there is an easy answer don't offer anything for sale.
Randy...

why advertise at all?and nationally no less? ?
rich z's post sure brought to light alot about how peter handles problems just an fyi peter money does talk but it cant buy you a reputation and thats what the boi is all about, to let suspecting buyers and sellers see/read for themselves with whom they may or may not do business with. ,,,,,,,thomas davis

 

[Roy Munson]

Here's what I've learned from this thread:

If I want a good transaction for a quality animal at the listed price, Peter's an excellent choice. If I want to dicker for a bargain price below list on an animal, Peter is not a good choice.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I had stated several pages ago that i was done with this thread. However, given the last couple of pages, I feel the urge to say one more thing.

I tend to agree that this incident probably does not qualify as a BOI worthy topic. That is, if it happened to me. However, this is the description that Rich has seen fit to place under the BOI title in the Forum Index

This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

And that's it.

I agree that Peter has the right to conduct his business in any way he sees fit. I extend that right to the OP as well. He felt that he was treated badly by a breeder. He felt he was treated badly enough that he wanted to make the situation public and get opinions from others. Nased on the TOS here, he was well within parameters. Was this a dire situation on par with theft or scamming? Absolutely not. But it was mistreatment of a buyer by a vendor in the opinion of the vast majority of the posters on this thread. As I stated earlier, this thread would have run about three pages without Peter's continued input. He exacerbated the situation by his responses and, in turn, recieved more vehement responses. It was his over the top answers that made this a 20+ pager.

If you look at the vast number of good guy threads on this forum, I think you will find the points that are mentioned are

1.) Quality of the product

Followed closely by

2.) Customer service

Customer service does not just begin when money is received, it begins at first contact. Again was grevious harm done? No. However, internet sales are the lions share of the sales in the this industry. We all cultivate it and want it to be an easy outlet for our animals. An initial response like the OP got is not just rude, it is, in small part, a black eye to our industry in general. Suppose, for a moment, that this was a 20 year old kid making his first online purchase. After that response, how quickly do you think he would consider another online purchase? in addition, how quickly do you think his buddies whom he tells the story to will.

I know there will be an answer to this post that states that peter's answer will discourage haggling. I disagree but i want to point to a comment Peter made in one of his earlier posts

Other breeders --- Let me throw something out to you and tell me if I am right or not:

People that BUY almost never haggle.

I don't know about the rest of you but I would say that well over half of the sales i made included at least one request in some form for a better price. Quite often it is simply "What's the best you can do shipped?" Other times it includes an offer. At that point it is up to me to make a decision. To say that being offerred less than you are asking is insulting is idiotic. If you think it is an insult, you don't belong in retail. And if you want to reject an offer it can be done without insults and the use of terms like "pissant" and "peasant"

As I stated earlier, Peter is not a Bad Guy He just has the wrong temperament for this type of business.

I am really and truly now done with this thread

 

[Jim O]

...it does seem to have provided the Fauna drama for a day or two.

That it did.

Jim, do you not find jolles' reaction to his own mistake in the deal with Rich Z troubling in terms of how he would correct a mistake of his own doing? He says he realized later, was embarrassed, and apologized. Actually, Rich pointed it out to him immediately and he kept firing with both guns. It was only after he calmed down that he realized that his temper got the best of him. To me, that is more telling than the obnoxious emails that he sends, though those trouble me more than they do you, and on that we will disagree.



Paul Sage,

You know that I respect you and your opinions. I read you analogy about bullies in the school yard but I believe there is a difference. Peter is a bully himself, and in this case he attached the "Kick Me" sign to his own back and kept re-attaching so as to make sure that people gave him more. I don't believe likening the response to his own words is akin to actual unwanted and unwarranted physical violence. If you like a guy who brags about being rude, that's your choice. I understand his frustration with low-ballers. Heck I get them in my business too. I just say sorry, can't help you. Or I just stop returning their calls. Negotiation is part of business. If his ads and terms say "prices non-negotiable" or something similar, then surely the OP is out of line. If your "buying style" is never to offer a lower than asking price, I'd like to sell you your next new car and your next house. FWIW I think the OP's offer was way too low. I could accept jolles' response as a "bad day" type of thing. When that is his usual modus operandi and he openly brags about being rude that crosses the line, at least it does for me. Of course we all have opinions and you know how that goes...


For all those who keep asking why this is in the BOI, well it's really simple. That's where the person who started the thread put it. The site's owner has seen this thread, posted in it several times, and not seen fit to move it. I guess that he thinks it belongs here, and in the end, his is the opinion that counts. Myself, if I had posted it at all, I would have posted in the General Business forum. But eh, that's not what happened.

 

[East_Coast]

Jim_O and Randy (Ravensgait) - this is really getting personal for you guys now isn't it?

There are plenty of people that have not bought from me and have not been "flamed" by me via email - heck I have even talked people OUT of buying animals from me.

The original poster got the response he did from me because it was such a ridiculous and insulting offer.

My email to Rich was shameful - and I ask how many people in here have not jumped to conclusions in the past? As wrong as it was - I think it was more wrong for the original poster AND for Rich to post those emails in here. You know I don't think I have ever done that in a public forum without masking the person's identity.

Jim_O & Randy --- please keep harping on what I emailed to Rich in 2004 - and for which I profusely apologized - IN PRIVATE TO RICH WHEN NO ONE WAS LOOKING and then again publicly at MARS in 2005. Actually, Rich could have cared less about my tiny order especially after I acted like such a jerk. I felt a lot better after I apologized in person that's for sure.

My other comments all stand and I still say you are all a joke and so is this. Plenty of people are happy about dealing with me and no one has yet to come in here and complain about any business dealings with me. As is proven with my awful purchase from Rich (all my fault) I went out of my way to make it 100% right - though it did take me 1 year to give him the $10 I owed him for the extra FedEx surcharge.

Peter Jolles

 

[Chameleon Company]

Yo Jim O !

Since you asked, and it is not contributing to the squabble that is most of this thread:

Jim, do you not find jolles' reaction to his own mistake in the deal with Rich Z troubling in terms of how he would correct a mistake of his own doing? He says he realized later, was embarrassed, and apologized. Actually, Rich pointed it out to him immediately and he kept firing with both guns. It was only after he calmed down that he realized that his temper got the best of him. To me, that is more telling than the obnoxious emails that he sends, though those trouble me more than they do you, and on that we will disagree.

I don't know that "troubling" is a word that I would use, although I can't disagree with others who find trouble with any of Pete's reactions, as its their conclusions to draw. Were I Rich at the time, I would have been equally negatively impressed. Pete seems to be quicker on the trigger than many of us IMO, and as to any true evaluation, while his animals seem good at first try, I do not see an example yet where he had to fix a customer complaint. That is at least half-the-mix to many of us. While his reaction with Rich was wrong IMO, I did then get a favorable impression that he realized he was wrong, and made good on it.

I have to get back to my "I wanna be an astronaut" resume. I understand there may be an opening or two for those beyond the fatal attraction phase of their lives.

 

[AncientDNA]

This post is a riot...and the reference to Apocalypse Now is right on the mark.
But if there is a meaningful point emerging from this mess(250+ replies now)...it's that John Q. Public is, by definition, difficult to deal with. I know that I can be over-inquisitive when I'm trying find out the exact age, locality, breeder, etc. of a rosy that I want. But that's how Rosy Boa people are...
Do I wish that more than 5% of the people who emailed me about rosies would actually follow thru & get one. Sure I do. Just like I wish scammers disappear! It's not going to happen, but you can wish for it even though you have to deal with it.
Those people who tell me they don't have much money to spend are probably either looking for a handout or aren't going to have the money to properly house and care for it anyway.
And while I've brought up cheap, what about those people who offer to purchase whole litters, but only for 1/4 of what they're actually worth? I can see bulk pricing, but...damn!
-John Columbus

 

[Jim O]

I have to get back to my "I wanna be an astronaut" resume. I understand there may be an opening or two for those beyond the fatal attraction phase of their lives.

I was thinking the same thing Do you think a dislike of heights would disqualify me?



jolles, apologizing is nice. Learning not to pull the trigger is even better. Though I give you credit for it, apologizing in private is nothing to be put in capital letters. It takes more peter to apologize in public when others are there to see you. The fact that you don't get that doesn't surprise me in the least.

And no, this isn't personal for me. You are as irrelevant to me as a pimple. Like I said, you will never have anything I would ever want to buy from you. But then, I'm blackballed, and that evidently is personal for you. I'll take Mr. Green and cry my way over to the next penny ante vendor.

 

[A_Mc]

What I really think is sad about this is the fact that Peter has several 'Good Guy' posts here on the BOI from people that have actually done business with him...
Good Guy Post...1 reply, 2 happy customers....
Inquiry: 6 replies and 4 happy customers
Good Guy Post....2 posts, 2 happy customers...
Now we have a post where no ACTUAL BUSINESS has taken place and there are 51 pages and 254 replies!!!

 

[Jim O]

Now we have a post where no ACTUAL BUSINESS has taken place and there are 51 pages and 254 replies!!!

Set your preferences to 40 posts per page and it's only seven pages. Many fewer page reloads to deal with.

Seriously, good point. Several have posted here about their good deals, and one poster (Rich Z) detailed a deal gone partially wrong and how jolles handled it. I don't think anyone, myself included, will argue that he has anything but nice, even very nice animals, and that his service is excellent so long as everything goes well. It's his interpersonal skills, or lack thereof, when things do not go how he wants it that are in question. And that's about all that's been shown. He's rude to customers and vendors alike, has a quick temper, has to apologize way too often, and doesn't like to admit he's fallible like the rest of us. Worth 250+ posts? Nah, probably not.

 

[A_Mc]

Set your preferences to 40 posts per page and it's only seven pages. Many fewer page reloads to deal with.

Thanks
I read Rich's posts...but didn't that happen in 2004?
Please, I am NOT making excuses. I just find it disheartening that a negative BOI post (with no actual transaction) holds far more interest than his several 'good guy' posts.
He will forever be remembered as the 'rude, obnoxious jerk that doesn't like to haggle'....despite the fact that his actual patrons have been pleased with his animals and service.
Now the $25 chondros (whole other dilemma) ....that remains to be seen.

 

[christopher66]

Now the $25 chondros (whole other dilemma) ....that remains to be seen.

Hey,thats right ,that hasn't been brought up yet.Why don't why have a discussion on that .

 

[Jim O]

I read Rich's posts...but didn't that happen in 2004?

And sadly he hasn't learned yet how to control his temper. You'd think after being a father for a few years he'd have learned that having a tantrum doesn't usually get you anywhere. Sad, very sad indeed.

 

[East_Coast]

Ahhh this is really getting very funny.

John Apple gave me two more "warning points" for something I posted back in this thread --- post #44. Too funny.

John, please --- keep looking you might be able to find some more things to "warn" me about.

HA HA!!!

I am curious, and I don't know if there is any way to find this out - how many "warning points" have been given out to other people in this thread --- some 260 posts long now.

Ahhh, too funny -- the moderators don't like someone that actually defends himself and LAUGHS IN THEIR FACES.

I am sorry I am not cowering at the negative "karma" points!

Peter Jolles