Bad Guy Edgar Machuca aka GeckoGen

[Kasi]

With their permission:

Blacked out poster number one, post one: Lydia Craig Sandia Cresteds
Blacked out poster number two, post one: Dagan Legg

Blacked out poster number one, post three: Kevin Jack Smith
Blacked out poster number two, post three: Heather Chapman
Blacked out poster number three, post three: Cindy Olsen McDannell
Blacked out poster number four, post three: Ariel Cudia
Blacked out poster number five, post three: Kelsey Leone

 

[Kasi]

And, as promised, the screen capture of what he sent me when I notified him of this BOI thread:

 

[LauraB]

With all due respect to all who have participated in this thread, what exactly is the purpose?

I understand you, Kasi, and others disagree with Edgar's husbandry. I understand you wanted to ask questions (or challenge) him relative to his practices and "experiments" with environmental tolerances of geckos.

I also deduce you, Kasi, are very intelligent, articulate and well respected in the gecko community; your reputation on the BOI substantiates that.

I also see that some of Edgar's responses on the various screen shots were not exactly appropriate & clearly defensive.

I don't know you, Kasi. I don't know Edgar. I don't keep or breed geckos, so am completely unbiased.

I suppose what I don't understand is why this war of words is here on the BOI. There was no transaction nor was your initial post a simple inquiry into Edgar's business transactions.

This (to an unbiased outsider) seems to be about antagonism and challenge, a differing of husbandry practices and/or scientific opinions, breeder vs. breeder and one-sided camaraderie ... all from another "forum"; what was that, facebook ?.

If Edgar has actually lied, scammed or stolen from customers, misrepresented and sold dead, dying or otherwise unhealthy geckos, then please bring on the unsatisfied customers.

If not, perhaps this dialogue on science, husbandry and breeder competition is better suited to the geckos discussion forum.

Now bring on the flames

 

[dhaisten]

I second the last post. This thread has no place in the BOI. There has not been an illegal transaction, no one has been sent a sick animal and offered to sell them another one at cost rather than replace it :, nobody has been sent a cbb critter loaded with filarial nematodes and god knows what else, etc....

I happened upon this thread because I do get bored and read the boi from time to time just for the heck of it...

That being said.

I do not keep crested geckos, but the little I know, if I was to keep them, that they require cooler temperatures as in room temperature most of the time...but room temperatures vary depending on climate, etc. In which case I would research exactly what the correct temperatures are for these guys. I also know, without keeping them, that a lot of people feed them crested gecko diet, etc. and the same goes for all sorts of things. Personally I am an insectivore feeder of lizards as much as possible and I do not trust commercial diets to provide all the necessities.

O.k.

As for Edgar, I am surprised to see his picture on here, I have not seen him in a long time. We went to the University of California Santa Cruz together, as he is from San Jose and I am from Eastside Santa Cruz.

Edgar was breeding dragons back then (2004) and he kept cresteds and such.

I myself am an arboreal boid keeper and I do not maintain lizards anymore.

Edgar worked for me (without pay) on one of my experiments and maintained Uta stansburiana, side-blotched lizards, from a polymorphic population.

It was nice to have someone who knew what they were doing compared to all of the undergraduate volunteers that were clueless.

The lab maintains a considerable population of these lizards during the field season.

Not sure what he is talking about with respect to temps with the cresteds, but it looks like he is saying he basically keeps them at room temps. His website care sheet looks accurate.

As for the rest of the interactions on the computer, looks like he has a little too much free time on his hands as of late and perhaps needs to torture himself with some more school. Looks like a waste of his time and all of yours.

Cresteds are interesting with respect to their affinities with other Tasmin geckos. Something I'm curios about. New Caledonia is part of the sunken continent zealandia (Tasminia?) which has another chunk known as New Zealand. All of this was part of Gondwana. There has been recent theory that New Zealand was entirely submerged at one point at possibly New Caledonia and another piece but I think otherwise. Still, no amphibians or snakes on New Caledonia, no mammals or snakes on New Zealand.

The monkey wrench is the Tuatara and other things, a fossil mammal from New Zealand from the Miocene, and the geckos of New Zealand are the only viviparous species in the world besides one (or two?) on New Caledonia. So, who came from where and did anything sink, is all very interesting

There is more to babble about, but i will stop there. Top secret.

Anyway, looks like Edgar has too much time on his hands, and it looks like some other people do to, but I will tell you all who are upset in this whole thing, he actually is a good guy, and is not an idiot.

Totally random that I happened upon this and it was Edgar who took care of my lizards for me in the lab. I'm pretty darn sure if I did keep lizards in my house, and I bought something from him it wouldn't show up sick, and I doubt he would rip me off. So whats up with the BOI?

I vote for removal.


If you are reading this Edgar...You've got to be nice to the ladies! Nothing like having one who is into the same things you are....

 

[mikew1234]

It looks like from the first few posts on the first screenshot that some type of transaction was starting to take place. (I could be mistaken though)

And I don't think it's so much about his husbandry being incorrect, and his ego being unnecessarily large, as much as the fact that he is advertising crested geckos that are in his mind able to handle extreme temps (in regards to crested gecko care), when he also admitted that a good number of his geckos happened to die when attempting this. In my experiences with crested geckos, it takes less than 2 hours in temps above 85 to stress individuals to the point of irreversible health issues (dropped tail, extreme dehydration, and seizure like symptoms).
Knowing that he is willing to do this, makes me believe he is a bad guy and would prevent me and many other gecko keepers from doing business with him.

 

[Kasi]

This post is here because of this: "This forum is designed to serve the purpose of giving anyone interested in the buying and selling of herptile related merchandise the opportunity to inquire about, or find already existing information concerning a person or business with whom they are considering doing business with." (From the BOI Rules for Posting)

While the vast majority of cases here are monetary issues, I believe that this fits the grounds of the above post; as a customer, I would certainly want to be aware of a person's professed husbandry practices, their actions toward other people in the community, and statements that they had made toward other potential consumers which could be potentially harmful to the animals being inquired about. To say that something should be kept at "room temperature" is distinctly different than saying something is 'conditioned for higher temperatures' as addressed in the very first post.

 

[Lucille]

The first sentence in the conversations shown in the first post is Kasi asking Edgar if he was the breeder who has geckos 'conditioned' to higher temps. He agrees that he is, and the conversation continues.
While there is some debate about this husbandry practice, some are saying that it does affect the gecko in a negative way. Whether that premise is correct or not I have no idea, but it seems as if some of the people saying so are actual gecko breeders. I do agree that such a debate might be well placed in the discussion forums.
But I do think that this thread will at least alert potential customers so that they are aware that the geckos that they are thinking of purchasing from this company may have been subjected to higher temps 'conditioned' and be able to ask questions of the seller and then conclude for themselves if that conditioning might affect the gecko they might plan to buy.

 

[Jaybee]

I appreciate knowing when I step into a business deal if someone is making unusual and claims about their line of animals that have new special abilities, but become combative when questioned about their process.

 

[CharlieGeckos]

I agree with JB's post and I want to add- I'd like to know if someone I was interested in buying from was baking their geckos. He might SAY that they've been 'conditioned' and tolerant of high temps, but that doesn't mean they actually are as others have said.

There could be underlying health issues related to the higher temps- particularly the stress level of the animals. Not only has he represented himself poorly, but he's potentially compromising the health of the animals he has.

 

[Sublime Reptiles]

I think this should stay up, as Kasi said this is not just a page to deal with money, but it is also an inquiry page and it will allow people who inquire about his geckos a look into how he conducts himself and his reptiles. He has on his page the proper way to house them yet admits he himself keeps them differently. He threatens with a lawyer, and in general is rather negative to someone trying to make sense of their keeping. I am sure if he could provide factual findings on trying to transition animals into warmer climate she would have reacted differently. But most people would understand it is change within an animal that takes hundreds of years, not just a few generations.

But myself I personally would like to know who I was possibly dealing with. I personally wouldn't buy from someone who was "conditioning" their animals to tolerate higher temps, having the background I do have I know those animals could be under extreme stress, not something I wish to get involved with. So for me this would serve as a warning to avoid him as a future breeder to purchase from.

 

[bloodybaroness]

This won't be removed, no matter how anyone "votes" and I agree with the others that serves a purpose.

This thread shows how this sellers keeps his animals and how rude he is when someone questions him.

You can't "condition" a species to live in higher temps in such a short time, and who knows what impact living under those conditions might cause.

I'll buy my geckos from trusted sources and steer clear of people who put the animals at risk.

I do not keep crested geckos, but the little I know, if I was to keep them, that they require cooler temperatures as in room temperature most of the time...but room temperatures vary depending on climate, etc. In which case I would research exactly what the correct temperatures are for these guys. I also know, without keeping them, that a lot of people feed them crested gecko diet, etc. and the same goes for all sorts of things. Personally I am an insectivore feeder of lizards as much as possible and I do not trust commercial diets to provide all the necessities.

As an FYI for cresties, and insect only diet is extremely unhealthy and a good way to cause problems. They are frugivore by design. Cresties can eat insects, but it can not be the only thing they eat. Most people feed a commercial diet that have been designed for, and proven to work for cresties. Lots of people even use the commercial diets as a base, and do a little home-brew type mix depending on what their geckos like as far as flavor goes.

 

[Bill T]

Have we seen the entire conversation?

 

[Kasi]

You have seen as much of it as is available. As I said, the thread has been removed.

 

[Reptile Realms]

I am writing this as a neutral observer of the thread, as someone who regularly deals with Edgar/Geckogen, and as someone who has had limited interactions with Kasi.
Though I have only had positive interactions with Kasi through phone and email in the past, I disagree with posting a bad guy thread because of what appears to be a FB dispute gone out of control. It is unfortunate that we do not have the entire conversation, as admitted by Kasi, because we now have to rely on speculation and hearsay. What we are also missing are the past interactions between the two individuals. Since both are located in the SF Bay Area, it is entirely possible that there could be other things at play here besides this one particular interaction which seems to have resulted in a spiral of events. I am not here to defend Edgar in terms of his comments or actions since that is up to him, but we must make some consideration that his lashing out could have been out of frustration. We have all been in situations that you kick yourself for later, and this may be one of those times as this does not match his character as I know him.
I have had the privilege of interacting with Edgar several times a month for the past 11 months, and every 3 weeks I personally deliver several thousand crickets to him. This delivery situation allows me to spend an hour+ chatting with him about his latest developments in terms of genetics, husbandry, latest acquisitions, and non-gecko topics. Edgar is a geneticist by trade, so those making assumptions about his education are unfounded. He has a very high level of understanding in the field of molecular biology. As an actual scientist he closely guards his “research” and “advancements” in his field. It took about 5 months of deliveries before he would show me his gecko room. Though certain topics I have promised not to divulge, I’m sure general observations about his animal health and care are allowable. Every time I have been in his gecko room, everything appears well maintained and healthy. The ambient temperature of the room has always been within the accepted normal ranges for healthy geckos.
If Edgar is conducting experiments to increase the heat tolerance of the species, it is understandable that the scientist in him is not willing to share the data until his study is completed and the results are published in a scientific journal to be reviewed by his peers. Once this happens, the results can be duplicated by others. I do not have direct knowledge of any such experiments, but I do know he keeps a very close eye on all of his genetic traits to create desirable morphs. He is also very particular about keeping strong genetic diversity in his collections, by introducing new blood and severely limiting the amount on inbreeding (if he even allows it at all).
There are many exciting things in the works at Geckogen, and I personally cannot wait to see all of Edgar’s developments and ideas come to life. Expect great things in the not too distant future.

 

[Kasi]

Thank you, Rick. While I have no way to confirm this, I will put it out there that the only time Edgar and I have had any other interaction whatsoever was a brief hello as we prepped for the San Jose Expo last year. Aside from that, we have never interacted.

 

[Kasi]

I would like to also add that this thread is not based solely on my own interactions- I did not post any of this until I heard that he had messaged the other two people with the comments that they have posted on the first page of this thread.

 

[bloodybaroness]

If so many of Egdar's "friends" can step in to say something, why can't Edgar himself?

I would like to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak.

 

[Lucille]

we must make some consideration that his lashing out could have been out of frustration.

As has been said countless times on this board, it is not how people act when things go well that shows who they really are, it is how they handle themselves when there are challenges.

I'm sorry, I would never deal with anyone who would make the kind of comments that Edgar send to Kasi. From what I saw, her concerns were for the critters, and good for her for speaking up. But even if there was more, one is responsible for one's words and Edgar is responsible for his.

 

[bloodybaroness]

As has been said countless times on this board, it is not how people act when things go well that shows who they really are, it is how they handle themselves when there are challenges.

I'm sorry, I would never deal with anyone who would make the kind of comments that Edgar send to Kasi. From what I saw, her concerns were for the critters, and good for her for speaking up. But even if there was more, one is responsible for one's words and Edgar is responsible for his.

That sums it up exactly.

 

[Peligro22]

Right out of the Handbook. When they get caught doing what they shouldn't, they cry lawyer. They know perfectly well that having an opinion is not slander, and relating facts is not slander. In fact, posting is not slander, slander is spoken defamation.
In addition, serious people have their attorney send a letter, they don't send ridiculous posts.
It makes me laugh every time I see this kind of 'lawyer' post, which is more often than one might think.

It never fails. Whenever someone knows they are wrong and feel backed into a corner, they pull the lawyer line. I wouldn't even be shocked if Edgar didn't even have a lawyer. People just think that's the scariest thing to say to someone.

Regardless, if he were to get a lawyer involved (which I HIGHLY doubt will happen), you have all the documentations, screen caps, messages, etc. He's got no case anyway. This isn't slander. It's someone who got caught with bad business practices and animal care and has run out of things to threaten you with.

(That's how it seems to me - personally)