Bad Guy Edgar Machuca aka GeckoGen

[AlmostHeavenHerps]

From what I've read here, I would avoid this Geckogen guy like the plague. When you run a business, you just aren't supposed to act this way. If he can't stop acting like a spoiled 15-year-old, he should not be dealing with the public in any way. Especially if he's abusing his animals with sweltering temperatures. This guy seems like a nightmare to deal with on a breeder-to-breeder basis, so I would hate to require something from him such as a healthy animal, especially when he can't even be expected the conduct a civil conversation.

 

[Peligro22]

From what I've read here, I would avoid this Geckogen guy like the plague. When you run a business, you just aren't supposed to act this way. If he can't stop acting like a spoiled 15-year-old, he should not be dealing with the public in any way. Especially if he's abusing his animals with sweltering temperatures. This guy seems like a nightmare to deal with on a breeder-to-breeder basis, so I would hate to require something from him such as a healthy animal, especially when he can't even be expected the conduct a civil conversation.

Well said! 100%

 

[aschnell]

Before I say anything else, I want to make it clear I'm not here to take a side, but rather to shed some light upon both Edgar and Kasi as an objective third party. I just felt I needed to intervene before either Kasi or Edgar get annihilated by the BOI "lynch mob" mentality that so often consumes many of these threads and dooms one person to have an eternally bad reputation.

I've been debating whether or not to even get involved with this thread, but I feel I'm rather uniquely qualified to comment on the situation as I would consider both Edgar and Kasi good friends of mine and have spent countless hours spending time with each of them in person (which is something I don't think anyone else here can claim). We all live in the Bay Area and all usually attend most of the local shows here. Both Edgar and Kasi have been more than kind to me in the past in more ways then I can count. They both have allowed me table space at different shows, been helpful and understanding with different personal situations I've dealt with in the past (Dad having cancer, etc), and purchased high end animals from me. Basically what I'm trying to get at is that they're both good people and that this is all just one big highly escalated misunderstanding. I think what started all of this was Kasi asking questions about Edgar's husbandry which Edgar may have taken as a form of challenging his knowledge and practices as a breeder. Now if somebody came along out of the blue and challenged my validity as a gecko breeder I'd be rather upset as well. But I don't think Kasi meant to challenge the validity of Edgar's husbandry practices at all, she was just asking some innocent questions. Hence the big misunderstanding that spiraled out of control.

Now that we've addressed that, lets move on to the quality of care that Edgar provides for his geckos, which has certainly come under fire on this thread by people who have never met Edgar or seen how his geckos are kept. Everyone who has seen Edgar's animals in person (whether at home or at a show) who has participated in this thread has stated that Edgar takes excellent care of his animals, and I couldn't agree more. What gives me the expertise to make that call? Well I own about 100 New Caledonian Geckos (6 different species) who's total worth is about $20,000 - so yeah, you could say I'm a pretty experienced keeper. I'm not going to tell anyone exactly how Edgar's geckos are setup because I think he'd like to keep that private. Some people might think that this is "shady". It might be shady if nobody had ever seen his animals while they were actually in his gecko room, but so far we have two well qualified people to vouch for the high quality of care that Edgar provides for his animals. For several years I refused to tell or show anyone how I kept my leachianus geckos simply because I had worked hard to develop a caging system that encouraged the best growth rates I've ever seen in the species. Naturally I didn't want my hard work all revealed just after I had finished it. It's only natural to feel protective of hypotheses you've developed and tested, especially as a scientist (which Edgar and I both are by education and Edgar is by profession). Anyhow, all of Edgar's crested geckos lay perfect pearly white eggs like clockwork - and his breeders are all HUGE! Like 50-70 grams! Crested geckos don't get that big unless you're doing something very, very right.

Before any other gecko people try to claim you're more experienced than Edgar at keeping cresteds, let me stop you and tell you that you aren't. Edgar owns somewhere around 500 cresteds of all different ages and morphs, has (I believe) over 300 eggs incubating right now, and will have close to 1,000 crested hatchlings by the end of the season. How many of you can boast that amount of experience?

Now, on to Temps. I don't disagree with anyone here on what the acceptable range of temps are for cresteds. Since New Caledonia rarely gets above 80 degrees or below 68 degrees, thats the range of temps I keep my geckos in. Edgar doesn't allow his animals to experience extremely high temps for any lengthy periods of time. He has a ton of thermometers in his gecko room and the average temp is in the mid-70s. These thermometers also record the record high and record low temps for the year, and when I saw the record high for the year it was only 80 degrees (and we've had days in the 100s here already!). I think the reason Edgar's animals can withstand higher temps than most cresteds is due to their strong genetics. He has succeeded in creating some truly outstanding morphs (with little to no inbreeding) from some geckos that couldn't have been more than F3 or F4s from the original wild caught animals brought in by Philippe in '96. His careful record keeping has led to inbreeding prevention of an unparalleled scale for high end crested morphs. Every single one of his high end animals is big and super fecund (aka fertile/productive) - which is something many high-end crested breeders can't say. I believe this genetic robustness is what allows Edgar's animals to tolerate slightly higher fluxes in temps than most cresteds. For example, it is well known that some Nephrurus amyae are very finicky with temps and can die easily if even slightly overheated. This is almost certainly because the species is so highly inbred (as no exportation of this species was allowed after 1973 so the US gene pool has become quite small).

Also, last but not least, Edgar will be taking care of my entire $20,000 collection of New Caledonian geckos while I complete an organic farming internship in Hawaii for the next two months. I would never EVER trust my geckos to anyone who would expose them to improper husbandry. If that doesn't speak volumes about the quality of his care, I'm not sure what does.

I short, I hope both Edgar and Kasi can work things out civilly as I honestly believe this all started with a simple misunderstanding on facebook. I've done a lot of business with both of them in the past and hope to do more business with both of them in the future.

 

[Lucille]

If so many of Egdar's "friends" can step in to say something, why can't Edgar himself?

He has known about this thread and has declined to appear and offer an apology to Kasi.
I still say that since language and legal threats were made for something even his friends characterize as 'innocent questions' readers have every right to decide whether they would want to deal with such a person.

 

[dhaisten]

There was a breeder in Campbell CA back in the early, mid 90s that had what was back then extremely rare pythons and all sort of things. His name was Rich Owens. He owned R&M herpetoculture. He was one of the first people that I knew to maintain New Caledonian geckos, such as Rhactodactylus, and get them to thrive and breed.

Rich has been out of the business since approximately 2001, so it is not possible to ask him how he maintained his geckos in the vicinity of San Jose, CA, and I really didn't give a poop at the time because I was drooling over all of his Australian pythons.

I ended up with a female chondro from one of his last pairings.

If I remember correctly, it looked like Rich was pretty much keeping them at room temp, but I didn't pay too much attention because like I said, rare Australian pythons for the time.

I would be interested in finding some published papers with respect to physiology and effects of feeding crested geckos commercial gecko diets long term. Comparisons in longevity, etc.

What? There are none?

Now putting a heat lamp on one of these guys and never giving them a properly gut-loaded feeder insect on occasion (or frequently) seems like cause for alarm.

If you really really want to get down to it with these critters, they would be housed in facilities with identical temperature regimes to New Caledonia with respect to night temp drops, DTH, DTL, etc.

One would find out exactly what non-insect matter they feed on, i.e. which ripe fruits, plant nectars, etc.

One would now exactly what proportion of protein versus carbohydrates versus whatever they consume at various life-history stages and replicate these conditions.

But, in captivity, none of this is done. So, to a certain degree, if these animals thrive in captive conditions that vary from what is ancestral conditions in the wild, you could say that captive bred geckos have acclimated slightly to some degree.

Take a wild green tree python and treat it for all parasites that are treatable and maintain a psuedo rain-forest in a plastic prison and watch the critter exist but never be up to par with cbb chondros. Why is that? Slight accllimations to captive conditions?

Is this genetic? I would think not, just phenotypic plasticity perhaps?

But, artificial selection can occur in a given direction over many thousands of generations or less.

Not saying that anyone should subject an animal to conditions outside of their physiological tolerances. I never would.

I would like to see some proof of

1) How many geckos have died as a result of Edgar's care prior to sale

2) How many geckos have died or not lasted as long as other geckos after the point of sale from Edgar

3) Have male geckos not been able to breed, i.e. are sterilized or the like from incorrect temperatures? Reduced fecundity from environmental factors as opposed to potential inbreeding depression?

4)In short, where is the proof of problems in geckos produced and sold by Edgar?

Nobody can jump on the bandwagon on this without proof.

I would like to see some evidence please.

That being said, this is a personal dispute. I do not agree with how Kasi has been responded to with respect to questions and such or in general. I personally would not waste my time getting heated over this matter and I prefer to work with people.

As for these New Caledonian geckos being able to withstand higher temps and being conditioned to it over a period of time and generations, that I would not buy. Snake oil from a wagon. For them to be able to exist outside of their conditions experienced in the wild, I would buy.

Simply because nobody is replicating those conditions exactly in captivity, period. This is just common sense. And nobody here is likely to be able to prove that they are doing that with Rhactodactylus. Prove me wrong and post the DTH, DTL, NTH, NTL, R.H., field stomach contents, physiological requirements for these species at all life-history stages, and so forth, for New Caledonia, and then explain the conditions you are all maintaining your critters at versus the wild.

So, were is the proof?

 

[Lucille]

That being said, this is a personal dispute. I do not agree with how Kasi has been responded to with respect to questions and such or in general.

There are enough questions posed by several people in this thread to alert potential purchasers to do their homework about 'conditioned' geckoes they might be looking to acquire.

I still would not do business with someone who used such language, and legal threats, for innocent questions. You might receive the same treatment.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Before I say anything else, I want to make it clear I'm not here to take a side, but rather to shed some light upon both Edgar and Kasi as an objective third party. I just felt I needed to intervene before either Kasi or Edgar get annihilated by the BOI "lynch mob" mentality that so often consumes many of these threads and dooms one person to have an eternally bad reputation.

I've been debating whether or not to even get involved with this thread, but I feel I'm rather uniquely qualified to comment on the situation as I would consider both Edgar and Kasi good friends of mine and have spent countless hours spending time with each of them in person (which is something I don't think anyone else here can claim). We all live in the Bay Area and all usually attend most of the local shows here. Both Edgar and Kasi have been more than kind to me in the past in more ways then I can count. They both have allowed me table space at different shows, been helpful and understanding with different personal situations I've dealt with in the past (Dad having cancer, etc), and purchased high end animals from me. Basically what I'm trying to get at is that they're both good people and that this is all just one big highly escalated misunderstanding. I think what started all of this was Kasi asking questions about Edgar's husbandry which Edgar may have taken as a form of challenging his knowledge and practices as a breeder. Now if somebody came along out of the blue and challenged my validity as a gecko breeder I'd be rather upset as well. But I don't think Kasi meant to challenge the validity of Edgar's husbandry practices at all, she was just asking some innocent questions. Hence the big misunderstanding that spiraled out of control.

Well, I believe many times the "lynch mob" is pointed in a accurate direction by the time a thread concludes. Those positions are easier when there is direct evidence of wrong doing.

In other instances, you have varying opinions and people find themselves on different sides of whatever debate is taking place. Debate and commentary from the community is a benefit to all.

In this thread, I don't believe anyone is headed to the woodshed by what has been presented. At least not with what is here at this point. I know my personal opinion thus far has swayed a little both ways as I have read comments from others including your post.

One point I'm sure on

I've been debating whether or not to even get involved with this thread, but I feel I'm rather uniquely qualified to comment on the situation

if you are in a position to make such a post on another topic you should. If nobody posting shows appreciation for the comments, I'm sure many readers do.

Anyway, so far this is my opinion. Without any direct evidence of animal abuse (those posting of such is lacking and follow up posts give a different perspective), I disagree with that being a valid point in the justification for this thread. Of course the OP and others disagree.

There have been no sick, deformed, neglected animals presented here. Of course there was no transaction or negotiations taking place either.

My personal opinion is that all of those points would have been better off discussed in the appropriate forum. Probably would have been a lively discussion.

Also my first thoughts on the responses from the target of this thread on the Facebook posts, was well, his acting like an ass.

That opinion didn't change much from those offering explanations.

The thing about that is that even with such behavior and the way Edgar addressed other posters I'm not inclined to give it much weight in this particular situation (BOI thread). If I was on the receiving end of the statements, I would put it away as a personal dislike of the person or a forum disagreement. Not professional in my opinion but I wouldn't have been writing anything about it.

If this was a customer to company situation it would be weighted differently to me. This was in a discussion group between two different breeders.

While I truly dislike and put off by the attitude if you go back and read the facebook posts he made one responses before Kasi basically stated he was misleading and suggesting his inexperience.

There was no asking of his experience or him being requested to clarify his husbandry without the digs at him personally.

Some may say it's just asking questions but I don't think that is a productive way to start a meaningful debate that you hope to achieve some answers. I wouldn't have responded in the same way he did but in the context to a BOI thread, we all apply the weight we believe it deserves.

Anyway, I don't think there was any reason the facebook posts had to go the way they went. The first replies started off well then no discussion took place. Accusations and insults is where it ended.

 

[Kasi]

I'm going to redirect this one more time- Thanks for the post, Andrew, about Edgar's husbandry- personally I have no issues with it so long as his animals are healthy, only curiosity. This post is not in response to husbandry. My issue stems from the libelous statements he posted about me, and the completely inappropriate PM's sent to at least three involved parties. In my book, character assassination is never ok. Libel, while harder to pin down than counted monetary damage, is equally harmful.

 

[dhaisten]

I'm not to be quoted on how someone was responded to.

Sometimes people get bored and/or riled up and have fun with computer antics. But arguing on the computer is kind of like the special olympics...

Now I am going to have to require something else since nobody can provide proof of messed up geckos.

Proof of Edgar being nasty with people buying his animals.

Show the proof of this please.

What? There is none?

 

[Kasi]

Dhaisten- Being nasty to people is not illegal. Libel or harassment is.

 

[hypersomniacjoo]

Kasi is 1000% reputable and concerned with the welfare of these animals. She clearly is the rational and logical person in this dispute. Regarding the man she dealt with: It is unfortunate that there are tweakers in the business whose geckos are experiments instead of living beings.

 

[dhaisten]

I'm not saying that any of the woman or other people should have been contacted in the fashion they were regarding the issues at hand.

I myself would have never posted a BOI on this, I would have told someone to **** and been done with it.

Simply saying that this is not a messed up transaction, there is no proof of inferior quality animals being sold, or animal abuse. I have not seen proof of customer abuse either.

Like I said in a long winded fashion above, cbb F1 and F2 (they are only F2 if the F1s are crossed) animals seem to thrive relative to the imported parent generation. This is instant phenotypic plasticity to some degree, because as I brought up above, no animal is being maintained in identical conditions to nature.

Think about it long and hard (or not that long or hard).


No offense to you all, but it does not take a rocket scientist to maintain a cbb gecko that thrives at temps in the high 70s and is nocturnal. Freaking hamsters.

Diurnal lizards are tricky, since there really is no substitute for the sun.

If you are able to keep a Sceloporus malachitus alive for more than a year, without treating it for endoparasites (and even if you do) I will give you a trophy. High altitude cloud forest diurnal lizard that just deteriorates like you would not believe. Viviparous as well. Bright green males and highly intelligent.

If you take a Crotaphytus male for instance, he will likely perish once thrown in a cage. This is a messed up thing that happens every year and should be shut down.

But, F1 collared lizards are an entirely different beast in a cage.

Why? Phenotypic plasticity to some degree, but even the F1 collared will get messed up if not maintained in near perfect conditions, eventually.

How I do it, and how somebody else does it are two different things.

I doubt Edgar is sitting in his house doing Meth, so that would rule out a tweaker.

This is a facebook dispute, not a BOI thread.

But what is libelous is somebodies name being thrown out as a bad guy which can cost business.

That is the real crime here.

Should anyone have been contacted in the fashion that was presented?

Absolutely not. Quote me on that.

Is this a valid BOI thread?

Nope. I see some libel here for certain.

So, this just really is some bad facebook words and other behavior that is, well, not how I would act.

But if I found my name as a business on this BOI and it was not business related, I would be upset.

O.k. last comments from me on this thread, have to get back to work before I get the foot to the butt from the boss, too many papers to read and too little time, and I am getting bored.

 

[LauraB]

Regarding the man she dealt with: It is unfortunate that there are tweakers in the business whose geckos are experiments instead of living beings.

Hmmm, that sounds like libel to me. Kasi, your supporters aren't really helping your Edgar "libel" case much.

David, perfectly stated.

 

[Kasi]

I have re-posted what was stated, no more, no less. The definition of libel requires that a damaging untruth be stated about someone. NHis post referred to sales figures no one has no way of knowing and says that I am someone who inbreeds my animals (this is a long and convoluted question in the Crested world). Then, he harassed people. That is all I have to say on the matter; some people disagree with this posting, some people appreciate it- the basic tenet remains the same, the BOI is a place for others to learn of experiences other people have had with someone they may do business with.

 

[Kasi]

I have re-posted what was stated, no more, no less. The definition of libel requires that a damaging untruth be stated about someone. Nothing that I have posted of our interactions has been altered or falsified. His post referred to sales figures no one has no way of knowing and says that I am someone who inbreeds my animals. That is all I have to say on the matter; some people disagree with this posting, some people appreciate it- the basic tenet remains the same, the BOI is a place for others to learn of experiences other people have had with someone they may do business with.

 

[sauce88]

"If you take a Crotaphytus male for instance, he will likely perish once thrown in a cage. This is a messed up thing that happens every year and should be shut down.

But, F1 collared lizards are an entirely different beast in a cage."


I Have a trio of collareds w/c that i keep outside on hot days and inside at nights, on rainy days they stay in and are doing wonderful. great display animals.

 

[dhaisten]

You are providing direct sunlight to your Crotaphytus which is ideal.

I am guessing that you might hibernate them in the winter as well, which wild ones are hard wired to do.

I would call your situation the exception rather than the rule.

I am not always correct, but my experience working with reptiles dates back to 1977. I often meet people who know more than me, I am happy when this happens because I learn.

But do not think that a generalization that I throw out is always correct, take a look around and see if there is general validity to the statement.

The amount of wild caught adult Crotaphytus that is captured for the pet trade annually and typically die as a result is unacceptable.

A few end up with keepers that are able to meet the needs of these animals, and one person in particular comes to mind.

That being said, most adult males flip out in a cage and just do not do well period. Younger males can adapt and not perish if maintained adequately (and do far better if provided with a VERY large cage, treated for any endoparasites, and if provided with access to sunlight).

For those that die, part of the problem is internal parasite load and part of it is abiotic factors (sunlight, temperatures) and part of it is behavioral (rock dwelling territorial lizard with a fairly large home range that can run up to 14mph on its hind legs).

F1 collared lizards act completely different, are calm in their enclosure, dig in the dirt for the heck of it, and do not spend the majority of the day flipping out in a cage. Granted, they will eventually calm down and sit on whatever rocks are placed in the enclosure, but do you think they are really happy?

I have maintained young adult male collared lizards for 5+ years (treated them for all endoparasites-massive hookworm infestations) in very large caging, and when I moved to grad school I had to donate one to a school. He is still alive and well.

If about 95% of the population other than me took this animal I would bet he would be dead a long time ago.

So, your experience is the exception rather than the norm, but i can tell you this, you are addressing someone in the archaic field of herpetology with over 30 years of herpetoculture experience. Regardless of experience, there are those whose collections I visit and I am not impressed. Sometimes I am.

And some labs keep their animals in the best fashion they are capable of, while I take it to the other level of the game.


I hope you breed your collared lizards, because I am sick of seeing all of the ones on kingsnake and in pet stores annually that bite the big one. And I really wish that more people would, because the pet trade will continue to take these critters out of the wild as long as their is demand.
CBB critters that thrive in captivity when cared for correctly will be a now brainer for those wishing to keep Crotaphytus. This has bothered me since I was a kid.

A captive bred population would be a wonderful thing.

So if you disagree with this, I would like to know exactly why, and I am curious what you propose to teach me?

And , if you would like to talk about the difference between F1 and Parental WC Morelia viridis and Corallus caninus with respect to potential resilience to captive conditions I would be all ears.

And if you would like to provide an example of someone keeping WC Sceloporus malachitus alive for a long period of time I would be thrilled. I have maintained both WC adult males (not my intent, it just happened as "rescues") and a neonate born of a wild collected female. There is a big difference in longevity.

I'm not just telling stupid stories, my previous research was conducted with respect to physiology, and my future research (if funded) will investigate the evolution of physiology, incipient speciation, and investigate contributions of phenotypic plasticity in a particular phrynosomatid. This will be done to split the phrynosomatid into different evolutionary significant units and possibly even subspecies/incipient species to change its conservation status from a "species of species of special concern" to "threatened".

Looks like I like drama because I'm still reading this thread and responding when applicable.

That being said, if you google "geckogen san jose" you end up with Edgar's website and just below it "Edgar Machuga Bad Guy".

Looks like the damage is done there. Fortunately not everyone views the BOI.

A light bulb post to see what people think might have been preferable for this whole situation in my opinion.

O.k. I'll go away now.

 

[j_dunlavy]

Edgar is actually a really good guy who takes excellent care of his animals.
I cannot defend the inappropriate comments he made, but i sense there is more to it than what these select screenshots show; Many are cut off and there are gaps in the conversation.
Even the most mild mannered people will get pissed if they are accused of something that is not true, although he could have handled it in a better way.

This looks to me like a facebook misunderstanding that turned ugly and never should have made it to the BOI. Who takes screenshots like this without intent anyway? I am tempted to say that the "bad guy" post is more out of revenge for being called a bitch who inbreeds geckos. Spite is the sort of thing that will also drive away customers too, not just calling names.
You guys need to just let it go and get on with your lives.

This thread ought to be moved out of the BOI and into HELL

it is just unfortunate that both Kasi's and Edgar's businesses will likely suffer as a result of this thread

 

[bloodybaroness]

Again, more of Edgar's friends, but still no Edgar.

I want to hear his side of the story from him directly.

 

[Kasi]

The ENTIRE conversation as emailed to me by one of the moderators, Gail Casperian Rolfe.

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins Edgar Machuca - I think I saw you at the SJ Expo last year. Were you the one with Cresteds 'conditioned' to live at higher temps?
Yesterday at 3:26pm · Like · 1

Edgar Machuca yes Kasi, I am, Geckogen.
Yesterday at 4:30pm · Like

Edgar Machuca and yes is just a matter of light reds that keep getting lighter and lighter =) but it doesnt happen to all reds.
Yesterday at 4:33pm · Edited · Like · 1

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins Just out of curiosity, how did you manage to override the entire thermoregulation system of a species within a generation or so? How has this affected their structure? And what exactly do 'higher temps' refer to?
Yesterday at 4:38pm · Like · 1

Edgar Machuca Nothing changes over a generation, this takes many generations to be stablished Kasi. A species can have a natural shift and tolerate different environmental factors that in time helps them cope better with their environment or current habitat. I have once done this with Altum Scalare and have applied the same techniques to the Crested Gecko. There are too many factors that affect structure and color not necessarily temperature. However, the first step is to push on the limits already stablished.
Yesterday at 4:49pm · Edited · Like

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins My understanding is that thermoregulation is a matter of either endothermic or ectothermic processes; one being fueled by metabolism, the other fueled by external sources. Crested Geckos are ectothermic animals, thus relying on their environment to be able to take proper care of themselves. While all environments have natural shifts, and species are adaptable, Cresteds were considered extinct until they were rediscovered in 1994, which is less than 20 years ago; I'm not sure how long you've been working with them, but judging from your website and images, you've been doing this since 2009, which leads me to believe that you're claiming to have converted the animals from one temperature range to another within four years, or presumably, within two generations. I'd love to know how that's done, and what the temperature gradient you're referring to as 'higher temperatures' is - perhaps it is significantly less than I am assuming it is, because to me that statement sounds as though it's intended to mislead, which I'm sure is not your intent.
Yesterday at 4:59pm · Like · 8

Edgar Machuca I think you answered your own question Kasi, you are on the right path keep, try some experimentation in allowing your geckos some time below and above the temperatures they are sensitive to. I never claimed to have changed anything about an entire species, that would be silly. I have stated that I don't worry so much about the higher temperatures, all my geckos are well conditioned to tolerate them with out showing signs of stress. The temperature gradient is from 55-90 deg F I don't regulate the room temperature if is hot is hot if is cold is cold. The only problem I've found is that my females lay way too Many eggs and the color scheme is getting better.
Yesterday at 5:14pm via mobile · Like

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins It's actually been shown that temperature does affect structure, with lower incubation temps resulting in longer incubation time, resulting in more pronounced structure with heads and crests. I think I'll keep mine right where they're at - being able to condition something to not display signs of stress seems distinctly different to me than being able to condition something to thrive under a condition. Thanks!
Yesterday at 5:18pm · Edited · Like · 5

Teresa Gibson Wouldn't laying too many eggs take a toll on the females?? I would think having an animal like a crested in the environment of a bearded would be harmful to them, just because they can't speak for themselves? Just because they tolerate something, doesn't mean they're comfortable. Just my thoughts.
Yesterday at 5:26pm · Like · 5

Edgar Machuca It has been posted not sure if it has been shown. I have never seen a scientific paper on it but direct me to it I may be wrong. I conduct my own studies and can comment on my own experience only. On the other hand, subjecting the geckos to be in tiny deli cups, is subjecting and conditioning, even if is not the intent.
Yesterday at 5:27pm via mobile · Like

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins Geckos in deli cups show signs of distress. Shows are stressful on the animals, whether we want them to be or not - the difference being that the stresses are mitigated as well as possible, and are not endured/'conditioned' over any period of time - they are simply tolerated for the duration of the show.
Yesterday at 5:31pm · Edited · Like

Edgar Machuca Yes I separate the males and females after 6 months of breeding so they don't over breed. I also never sell any animal that has been used in the breeding project only virgins lol. Oh and no Bearded dragon conditions just not controlling temperatures. I assure you I love the animals and last thing I will want to do is harm them. The geckos enjoy super health and their well being is of the most importance to me.
Yesterday at 5:31pm via mobile · Like

Kevin Jack Smith This doesn't make any sense to me. Can you explain exactly what you're saying, Edgar Machuca? What's this about changing cresteds so they tolerate higher temps?
Yesterday at 5:32pm · Like

Edgar Machuca Well is too much to talk about so let's just focus on the nice geckos lol
Yesterday at 6:10pm via mobile · Like

Kevin Jack Smith You can't explain what Kasi meant about your temp resistant ciliatus?
Yesterday at 6:12pm via mobile · Like · 2

Edgar Machuca I choose not to
Yesterday at 6:15pm via mobile · Like

Kevin Jack Smith Ha, nice.
Yesterday at 6:18pm via mobile · Like · 3

Heather Chapman Geckos die at those temps, I don't blame Kasi for not 'experimenting' with her gecko's lives.
Yesterday at 6:21pm · Edited · Like · 1

Cindy Olsen McDannell How long on average do your cresties stay at that upper temp range?
Yesterday at 7:49pm via mobile · Like · 2

Ariel Cudia Being a scientist Edgar Machuca, can you show a record of prolong temperature exposure to the animals in question? I know for a fact that @ 90 deg, cresteds start to become uneasy.. Some start to drop their tails, dehydration becomes critical, and (depending on size) they die..
22 hours ago via mobile · Like

Edgar Machuca Oh Ariel next thing you know you will be posting texts and inflamed accusations. I would if I cared enough to convince anyone. However, is futile and I don't need to convince anyone, thank you for asking this is a dead subject. Is time for me to over heat and over feed. Lol
22 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1

Teresa Gibson Everyone is just curious... people have really been opening up to other's experiences as we have seen with the recent influx of gecko diet experiences being shared. People fear the unknown or the different, but to inform them is much better than to keep them in the dark.
22 hours ago · Like · 5

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins Agreed with that for sure, Teresa. It makes it look shady when it isn't the 'norm' and isn't explained, whereas explanation can help to bring light toward answering questions others have.
22 hours ago via mobile · Like · 2

Cindy Olsen McDannell My opinion, is that if you present a thought, experiment, whatever, you should follow through with explanation. As stated, no one ever would have admitted a year ago that they were going against the grain with the diet. We all can learn new things. Not one of us knows everything about these guys and we can all learn from each other.
22 hours ago via mobile · Like · 3

Edgar Machuca Thanks for your opinion everyone! I will take everything you said to heart.
22 hours ago via mobile · Like

Laura DePaola The Gilpins did studies originally on incubation temps and structure. I have personally seen it in my own animals, as well as MANY other breeders I know...the longer crested babies stay in the egg, they better their crest structure and hardiness. No scientific paper needed.
19 hours ago · Like · 2

Kevin Jack Smith For many species in the hobby, ciliatus being one of them, certain opinions snowball from something tiny into almost everyone thinking it's a law of the universe. Take the diet for instance- making your own is gaining in popularity when a couple years ago it was a mortal sin to question Repashy diet. There is a LOT of information in the hobby that is thought of as universal law when it's either not so universal or just plain wrong. I can tell you for certain that this is true for my genus of concentration, Uroplatus. If there's something odd that you're doing, yet you are having success at it, share away. But if when it comes up you just refuse to answer anything about it you don't end up in a good light.
14 hours ago · Like · 2

Kelsey Leone To help with this temp issue. I have a male crested that survived in 90+ some degrees for 2 days. Some can deal with it while others can't. I moved and he got out during the move. I live in Arizona. Its HOT!! I found him in a unit that was not put together yet and moved into the house. Another great example. My friends up stairs air conditioning went out. Her gecko room sky rocketed passed 80 degrees, a few died while others were perfectly fine. I keep my gecko room at 75-78. Its what ever works for the hobbyist.
7 hours ago · Like

Kasi PartyGecko Faulkins I'm so glad that your gecko survived, as well as those with your friend! I know that there have been instances of escape/heater malfunction, etc - this isn't a thread on survivability so much as it is about gecko welfare and the results that are being professed. I'm not opposed to new information about keeping geckos with warmer temperatures - if there is a way to help 'insulate' them from heating issues later in life that can be done without injury, discomfort, stress, etc, I'd love to hear it! What we're questioning here is a) how it is done, b) what the measurable results are (one keeper doing it and having good luck with it is one thing, professing it to another without measured results is another). While some geckos 'can deal with it', my concern isn't about whether it is tolerable for a few, but how this is being done, how it is being measured, and whether the results are actually consistent with what is being stated - oftentimes, tests measure something other than what it is they are 'supposed' to be testing for, ie: you can train a dog not to growl, but that doesn't mean they aren't distressed.
7 hours ago · Like · 2

Edgar Machuca Kasi you are just so mad I'm not telling you what I'm doing. Especially because I have out done you in our area. The geckos can tolerate higher and lower temperatures than what has been stablished. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You have a very real concern because the more you inbreed the more concern you should be about your temperatures. Me I base everything in a few metrics growth, feeding, weight, reproduction success, hatchling success and over all their fitness. Quite trying to act like the gecko police and concentrate on your own projects. If I have something to report I will when I feel like it. I like your level of envy tho
5 hours ago via mobile · Like

Edgar Machuca For the rest of you out there, I will share information at my discretion and only mine.
5 hours ago via mobile · Like

Laura DePaola The questions posed have been very relevant. No one is going to profit off your ideas, and if someone can benefit from it what's the harm? Your defensiveness and personal attacks screams that you are hiding something...
5 hours ago via mobile · Like · 2

Edgar Machuca I am hiding everything Laura
4 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1

Heather Chapman Any credibility you could have had is definitely gone, or at least in my eyes. The only thing you seem to have to offer would be personal attacks. Everyone has been very open to your claims, but every time someone asks for proof or data you can't deliver. I fear for the health of the animals you're experimenting on.
3 hours ago via mobile · Like

Edgar Machuca I'm so concerned! Oh god can't sleep oh what am I gonna do????!!!!!!
3 hours ago via mobile · Like

Edgar Machuca I don't need to prove anything to any of you thanks but like how crazy you all get
3 hours ago via mobile · Like

Kevin Jack Smith They should rename this group to Superdrama Exotics.
2 hours ago · Like · 5

Heather Chapman Lol, I agree.
2 hours ago via mobile · Like

Edgar Machuca Hahahah I agree Kevin, oh here comes the gecko police!
2 hours ago via mobile · Like

Lydia Craig Sandia Cresteds Outdone Kasi 'in her area'? I hear some more hot air being expelled. And I fail to see anything you've done that would evoke anything close to jealousy in anyone, let alone Kasi. She is a known and trusted breeder and keeper, whereas others...well, not so much. Quit being a bully hiding behind your keyboard.
about an hour ago · Like

Dagan Legg Hmm, I have been following this conversation and Kasi does not appear to be expressing any anger in her comments. I have never known Kasi to act upon anything other than concern for the general welfare of animals. She is very knowledgeable about creste...See More
about an hour ago · Like · 2

Edgar Machuca Oh god go suck a geckos tail
51 minutes ago via mobile · Like