Enclosuresbydesign/UPS ?

[vferra7777]

Some may remember me, I ordered a few units from enclosures and Sal in November. Those that followed my ordeal may remeber that both arrived as promised but one was destroyed. My wife took pictures of it and saved them as well as posted on my earlier threads. I just got word that UPS finished their investigation and will NOT pay because they feel that they were not packed well enough. I don't know what they consider professional packing, but I ma out $550. I have called Sal, in Florida, many times and have gotten no feedback at all.

UPS is a brick wall and they have made their decision. All of you that contact or try to contact Sal in Florida, please remind him that the decision has been made and the financial burden of my lost order is on him. either he needs to get it from the packager, reship me the unit, refund my money or send me something to square our deal.

I also know that Neil Gubitz is the one that actually charged my credit card through The Sake Pit, so he is involved as well. Some body owes me $550. Until further notice I cannot recommend eithe rof these men.

 

[DThomas]

Submit a dispute with your credit card company. Most will refund for damaged goods received. It's basically the same as non-delivery. Since Neil charged your credit card, let him try to collect from Sal after he receives the charge back.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

I am sorry to hear that UPS is not going to honor the claim. I had a feeling they would do this as they always try to get out of paying anything. Also when I saw the pictures the packaging did not appear to be the best to me either. Now I suggest you continue to try and recover the money from Sal as he is the one that owes you the money and not UPS. I also would say this new information that Neil is the one the processed the card is an eye opener. Neil I would suggest that you get this taken care of as to be honest, since you are the one that processed the transaction you are responsible for the money as well no matter if Sal received it all from you. Also processing a card for someone else is illegal, and you should know this. Why anyone would want to associate themselves with Sal and Alison in any fashion is beyond me.

 

[JungleHabitats]

Hey Vinnie

Sorry to hear what has ended up with the transaction .I knew from the time that Sal was saying that he was waiting for payment from UPS that he had no intentions of paying the amount or acxtually making good on the deal but used it as a poor excuse as to why he was waiting to refund your money that he had been paid . it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that Sal had less then $300 in what he built for you and did & should have made out well on the deal.There fore it was HIS responibility to refund your money ASAP and then wait for UPS to make the claim good for his refund. Its sad that it turned out the way it did but from Sals track record it couldnt have turned out any other way with him. he is truely a peice of work and this just goes to show that any of his staunchiest supporters have no leg to stand on when the topic of Sal comes up , anyone that could defend him at this point is IMHO is no better then Sal is .And anyone that can or does has contact info should give it up and disregard any privacy this living work has had to this point. It amazes me how conact info is released on others that screw people over but when it comes to Sal they seem to "protect" there interest with him ??????? just cant understand that. im sure if there were wronged by someone and a person had information to leadthem to the person that wronged them they would want it released to get intouch with that person .


And it is enteresting how Neil was involved in the transaction at hand and was able to charge your CC so i would venture to say since Neil was involved that it would be upon him to to make this right and then deal with sal... Neil we KNOW with the High Quailty animals you are selling and have sold $550.00 should be laying on the end table somewhere , so i think it would show great things if YOU refunded Sal his $550.00 and then took matters up with Sal on that end ..? what do you say Neil? remember that saying ...Do the right thing ?

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Rob.... as for me putting this on my account, it was because Sal asked me to do this as a favor for him, as he did not have a terminal or way to process a credit card.... I gor permission from my credit card people to do this on a one-time basis, so everything I did was legal.... The entire order WAS shipped AND received, it was UPS that damaged the boxes and broke the units in HALF!!.... That had nothing to do with Sal's packaging of the units.... the cage looked like Turkish Taffy upon arrival, how can Sal be held responsible for that??.... I have done everything humanly possible to help Vinny with this mess.... but, it is certainly not MY fault, or Sal's.... Vinny should fight UPS for this.... it's THEIR fault and THEIR problem.... Sal did everything he was supposed to do....

Neil

 

[LOSTNCONFUSED]

HELLO
WHAT YOU COULD DO SEEING AS YOU PAID WITH A CREDIT CARD IS TO MAKE A CHARGE BACK FOR THE ONE CAGE. SEEING AS UPS STATES THAT IT WAS NOT PACKAGED CORRECTLY, THE RESPOSIBILITY FALLS ON THE SHIPPER. IF HE DOSENT ANSWER YOUR EMAILS MAKE A CHARGE BACK. THERE IS NO REASON THAT YOU SHOULD PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSES MISTAKES
JOHN PERAZA
COOMING SOON
THE BLAZE BOA

 

[JungleHabitats]

OMG NEIL!!!!! shame on you !!!!

DUDE PAAAAAAAAAAAAALEASE

Sal was responsible for getting Vinnie his money back PLAIN AND SIMPLE SAL had the cage unsured so ITS SALS RESPONSIBILITY TO GET IT FROM UPS Not Vinnies !!!!!

UPS wouldnt listed to Vinnie's request since SAL insured the shipment ??? comeon even you have to know this ??? Sal should have right off the bat refunded Vinnies money and then took it up with UPS but i imagine Sal knew UPS wouldnt make good on the claim and thats why he left vinnie holding the bag and yes he did leave vinnie holding the bag nothing you can say will change the fact that SAL is a peice of _ _ _ _ and you defedning him like this sets you in the boat besdie him with a paddle in your hand . You always seem to associate with the dirtiest sock in the hamper and defend it when its covered in mud . You should refund the $550.00 to Vinnie as YOU received his payment NOT Sal and if i were vinnie although it may be a bit late i would be calling the credit card company and reversing charges faster then you vould reply to this thread again ...
Neil you never seem to stop amazing people at what and who you run with ...And yet you claim to be the changed man ?? come on Neil that wool over peoples eyes has holes in it do the right thing ... PAY VINNIE HIS MONEY he desreves it he did after all take YOUR word on dealing with Sal when he was warned about the outcome you told him him it would be ok Sal had changed .... geesh man come on Neil

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Neil,

First off you are wrong. It is not Vinnie place to fight with UPS for the refund that is Sal's responsibility. The customer should have received the refund immediately and then Sal have to deal with the refund from UPS. Why would the end customer have to deal with it when it was not his fault by any stretch of the imagination. He ordered a product, was screwed around and lied to about the shipping of the package, had to purchase other cages to make due until these arrived and then when they arrived he still could not use them all as what he paid for. I truly find it funny that you say you got permission to charge a charge for Sal on a one time basis when it is illegal according to US Credit Card laws to do that type of transaction and I don't know any merchant accounts that will allow a violation to happen knowingly. Why did Sal not have a terminal?? They supposedly had one before. Oh that is right they had to the same type of thing with another Friend/Business partner's machine in the Tony incident as well. Lets put it this way. If Vinnie really wanted to pursue this with the credit card company and the courts YOU will be the one having to pay for it as you as the one that actually processed the card and completed the transaction. If Vinnie disputes the charge your done and will get the chargeback, if he pursues it in court, he would be granted a judgement almost immediately. I can understand you not wanting to pay for the refund and that is fine, but you need to get in contact with Sal and MAKE him refund this money to Vinnie. Also if there are any other charges that will pop up down the road that you ran for Him or Alison and you know the results are similar to this I would suggest you make him take care of them as well.

 

[JungleHabitats]

Vinnie

Now you see the man Neil is id call the CC and revers ALL charges back as sal was not the one you dealt with in payments. Neil doesnt sell cages nad he should make this right no if's and's or butt's about this if hes so chummy with the creep sal he can wait forever to get funds back from someone who aint gonna pay thats the only reason i see neil not doing it . he knows Sal well enough to know he wouldnt even get money from sal ... neil you are no better then Sal yes i said it what a work in the making

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Rob.... I told Vinny from the very beginning that once we heard back from UPS, one way or the other, I would do the right thing.... I just emailed Vinny asking him for his PayPal account addy and I WILL pay him his $550 immediately and then take it up with Sal.... As I told him I would.... I have never shirked my responsibility for this (as Vinny will definitely tell you), but, I still think it was UPS's fault, but being as large as they are, you can't fight City Hall.... Vinny will have his $550 reimbursement as soon as I get his PayPal addy....

Neil

 

[Brian Oakley]

I will admit, I only read up to the point where Neil responed. That was what was most interesting to me.
This is NO different than ANY shipment we make in this industry OR any other. If I order a computer from a company and it is damaged in shipping, does the computer company ship me a new one? I would think so.
If one of us sends a snake and it dies in shipping, is it morally correct for us to ship a new snakes (we see this all the time)? The unanomous answer on this as proven time and time again is, YES! It is the responsibility of the SELLER to insure that his/her buyer receives product (no matter what it is) in good working condition.
Vinnie, I would not waste my time with anything here. I would go STRAIGHT to the credit card company. Do you have this deal (the original agreements etc.) via email? This will help a great deal, NOT that it is needed though.
While you are at it, I would ask them about a thrid party collecting payment via credit card and what their thoughts are on it. NOT that I doubt Neil, but I woudl beinterested in hearing what YOUR card company has to say about it. Just because Neil's says it was ok, does not really mean it would be ok with yours.

Neil,
I am not jumping you on this, but I will say this. I would be EMBARRASSED to be in your shoes. Friend or not, I would charge back the credit card (REFUND IT, REVERSE CHARGES) and take it up with Sal. Although it IS nice to see someone do something for a friend, you are getting caught up in something that does not involve you............until you accepted the payment.
If I bought a snake from, even if it was packaged in concrete box, and the box broke and it died, you would ship OR refund the money to replace it, correct? I cannot see how ANYONE would look at this any different. Product was payed for.....product was NOT recieved in the condition that it should have been. That is the responsibility of the seller. If he, hell Neil too for that matter, is so confident that the shipper is at fault then you should have NO problem refunding the money and getting it back from UPS.


SAD, SAD, SAD! Just learned a bit about two people in this industry!

 

[JungleHabitats]

Neil

Glad you have deicded to refund Vinnies Money to him ( which should have been done in November ) none the less glad you saw it the right thing to do after making this statement

??.... I have done everything humanly possible to help Vinny with this mess.... but, it is certainly not MY fault, or Sal's.... Vinny should fight UPS for this.... it's THEIR fault and THEIR problem.... Sal did everything he was supposed to do....

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Rob.... as for me putting this on my account, it was because Sal asked me to do this as a favor for him, as he did not have a terminal or way to process a credit card.... I gor permission from my credit card people to do this on a one-time basis, so everything I did was legal.... The entire order WAS shipped AND received, it was UPS that damaged the boxes and broke the units in HALF!!.... That had nothing to do with Sal's packaging of the units.... the cage looked like Turkish Taffy upon arrival, how can Sal be held responsible for that??.... I have done everything humanly possible to help Vinny with this mess.... but, it is certainly not MY fault, or Sal's.... Vinny should fight UPS for this.... it's THEIR fault and THEIR problem.... Sal did everything he was supposed to do....

Neil

Neil,

that is very good. I commend you for doing the right thing. I know you don't like having to do it but hopefully this will help you drag Sal's no good for nothing rear out of what ever he is doing and be able to get your money back from him. I hope this might help you decide to steer clear of Sal from here on out (once you get the refund back from him). The damage was done by UPS yes this is not deniable but had the packages been properly packaged they might have made it in better condition. Regardless even if they had been packaged properly it is not Vinnie's responsibility to pay for the product he did not receive nor be able to use. The shipper is the one that pays for the insurance, files the insurance claim and is the one that is supposed to wait for the refund not the end customer. Vinnie should not have had to go through this at all. He should have either received his product in the shape he ordered or received an immediate refund. It was definitely not his fault.

What is really sad is that this does not matter to Sal in the least and I would be willing to bet that he will not start to brush you off as well and you will not see the money back from Sal (which I hope is incorrect).

Vinnie when you receive the refund from Neil please post on here and let us know.

 

[Brian Oakley]

I am anxious to see the post where Vinnie say he has his money.......like he should have long ago.

Neil, again, this is no fault of yours. Maybe this will get you to think about what it does to you when you do something like this in the future. Again, nice jesture, but Sal could have opened a Paypal acct. just as easy as you collected the money for him. If he cannot open a Paypal acct. due to Paypal not letting him (just hypothetical) that should say something right there.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Well, what I didn't like is you (Alan) making your assumptions when you had NO IDEA what was in my head or what I had continually told Vinny I WOULD do.... you, my friend, owe me an apology!!
I will ALWAYS ask that they put a claim in to the shipper for damages (non-living entities ONLY) only the RECEIVER can claim damages.... they ARE (UPS) responsible for the damage.... I would ALWAYS replace an ANIMAL if it got to the buyer DOA (which has never happened)....
And, Alan, the ONLY reason you are being so hard on Sal is just to promote your OWN cages and to make YOURSELF look like a bigger man when somebody wants a cage.... on no other threads do you come down so hard on someone, only when it could benefit you.... that shows a lot for YOUR character....
and YES, I know EXACTLY where Sal is and what he's doing.... he had a lot of problems in the last few months because of a very nasty divorce (been there, done that).... Sal is a very GOOD person who always TRIES to do the right thing.... he has NEVER ripped me off in any way, shape or form.... I, personally, have bent over backwards to make at least two of his bad deals right (ask Vinny and Steve Zaun).... but, I will NEVER "rat out" a friend, I will only try to HELP my friends.... why on EARTH would I give you his info when all you've ever done is TRY to ruin MY business (which you can't).... this only shows me (and a whole bunch of other people I've heard from) more about you guys than you think.... you'll berate me to no end, but the first time you need MY help, you come asking politely??.... don't hold your breath....

The same is going on with the Alvarez thread right now.... you know darned well that the refund should have been given with no questions asked.... how you can say that Mike is wrong is beyond me, no matter what kind of emails he sent.... you guys just amaze me at times....

Berate me all you want.... I will continue to do good business, I will continue to help anyone that comes to me with honesty and above board and I will continue to always do the right thing as I see it!.... If you don't agree with how I see it.... too bad....

Neil

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Money has been sent....



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Payment Sent (ID #0SB41379GF802604S)




Related Transactions
Date Type Status Details Gross Fee Net
Feb. 24, 2004 Payment To Off-The-Ark Animals Completed ... -$550.00 USD $0.00 USD -$550.00 USD
Feb. 24, 2004 Transfer From Bank Account Completed Details $550.00 USD $0.00 USD $550.00 USD



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Name:
Off-The-Ark Animals (The recipient of this payment is Verified)
Email:
[email protected]

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Business Contact Information:

Business URL: http://www.geocities.com/offtheark
Customer Service Email: [email protected]
Customer Service Phone: 804-763-4443




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Total Amount:
-$550.00 USD

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Date:
Feb. 24, 2004
Time:
10:27:10 PST
Status:
Completed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Subject:
refund
Note:
Vinny.... I don't know why you felt the need to threaten me.... I told you from jump street that I would do the right thing if it came down to it, after trying to recover from UPS which only YOU could have done.... and I really hope you have the guts to tell the BOI EVERYTHING I have tried to do for you since this began.... and you KNOW it was a LOT....

Neil


Shipping Address:

tampa, FL 33624
United States
Confirmed

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Funding Type:
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Funding Source:
$550.00 USD - Bank of America Checking (Confirmed) XXXXXX5759
Back Up Funding Source:
Visa Debit Card XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-3777

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[Brian Oakley]

regardless of whatever "history" you and Vinnie have, you did the right thing!

 

[JungleHabitats]

Neil ,

Ok first i am glad you refunded Vinnie his money.It was the right thing to do and i am glad you did it way to go Neil.

Now as to this comment

Alan, the ONLY reason you are being so hard on Sal is just to promote your OWN cages and to make YOURSELF look like a bigger man when somebody wants a cage.... on no other threads do you come down so hard on someone, only when it could benefit you.... that shows a lot for YOUR character....

Let me explain something here to you Neil Yes i do come down HARD on Sal and he desereves it to say the least and nicely.Sal has showed his true colors in more then just one instance on how he conducts buisness.As for my buisness well sir i can tell you i have NEVER had one complaint on a snake or cage i have EVER sold and to let you in on something yes i have been through what Sal has with having a cage totally destroyed in shipping by AirborneExpress back in spring of 2003.The cage was insured for $1000.00 ($550.00 for cage and then there was misting system setup inside the cage with thermostats etc.)Well the Crate i built for this cage was of 3/4" plywood and then also had 1" of foam on the inside as to Airborne Expresses details on HOW to pack a shipment like this .Well the package was dropped off at there location and sent out ground freight.Well two weeks went buy and in which i called to check to see if the customer got the package, they had not but recieved a call from the airborne office that the package was destroyed .. to make a long story short i refunded the money to the customer within in a week.It took airborne right at 6 months to settle the claim and to do so it took me staying on there @ss 3-4 times a week to recover my money which when they settled they only settled for $600.00

I can also say that i have not ever took anyones $$$ then not send them anything in return , on the small number of snakes i have never had a DOA or complaint about them either so yes i do have character and i cant stand to see someone painta bad name on something that is in my realm of buisness as it reflects poorly on me and other people that build cages so Neil you stating i come down harsh on Sal is correct and warranted IMHO


Ask him if Kim Tall ever got her cages ? or her refund from the order she placed on Dec 7th i think was when she placed her order? last i had seen that wasnt done so that again is a Sal transaction . Ask the person that made another thread on Sal if he got his money ? or snakes there was also some one on KS forums that never got his cages either from December so to say Sal tries to do the right thing is a lil off in context or those people would have had there merchindise they paid for and would never once had to ask if anyone knew where he was or if they were still in buisness today now would they ... and neil i could never see anyreason i would have to ask for your help in or about anything so no chance of me knocking down your doors anytime soon i do just fine by myself

And as far as your apology goes ill say sorry for the fact that you are involved with someone like Sal to have to be subjected to this ... but i was told when you lay with dogs you are gonna wake up with fleas..
sorry neil

 

[Otter_23]

Neil

If Sal is a good person is there a chance i will get my money back? Refer to the upstate thread. I do have to say he was never disrespectful (Sal). I just tend to get worried that he left NY and did leave me a message or email and if not for this place I would never even know what happened to him.
Mark Westberg

 

[kimtall]

Sal the scum

Don't hold your breath. I sent Sal 623.00 for a rack in Dec. and it was never shipped. He made promises 3 times to ship it and what do ya know, it never happened. I tried to contact him about refunding my money and his phone was disconnected, he would not answer emails and now both of his web sites are down. i made a claim with my credit card company and they have credited my account for the 623.00. Thank goodness I used my credit card. By they way, it was charged to his wife's business, moonlit media. Why did he have to have Neil charge the card for him in November when he charged my card through moonlit media in Dec.??? This is all very wierd. I cannot understand why in the world you would do this for anyone Neil. I would not do something like that for my best friend do to the kind of trouble I could get into for doing it. What you did was not legal and you also had to pay back the money and good luck getting a penny out of Sal. If you associate yourself with "bad" people you are always going to look like a "bad guy". Don't you get that Neil??