Fauna, the BOI, and Favouritism...

[Rebel Dragons]

Whew.....................

 

[W.Wedeking]

Well, since this thread has gone to hell in a handbasket, I may as well add my $.02.

Fauna and the BOI have always had it's alliances and friendships. It is only natural when people/business interact over a period of time for this to happen. While I do believe at times, this has been mistaken for "cliques" and favoritism, there has also been some obvious of both. It happens, we are all human beings.

The site itself is a "clique" by definition, and always was. The difference is that now it is Exclusive. The root word of exclusive being EXCLUDE.

This means that you are going to have the same group of people posting over and over again because others are Excluded.

On the one hand, this accomplishes the goal of weeding out all the dual identities, trolls and jerks.

On the other hand, it limits the amount of input to the site for example, you do not have the bennifit of other peoples experience and knowledge coming into the site either.

No new ideas, no alternatives, no growth just the same people posting over and over and over.....

 

[Rebel Dragons]

The site itself is a "clique" by definition, and always was. The difference is that now it is Exclusive. The root word of exclusive being EXCLUDE.

This means that you are going to have the same group of people posting over and over again because others are Excluded.

On the one hand, this accomplishes the goal of weeding out all the dual identities, trolls and jerks.

On the other hand, it limits the amount of input to the site for example, you do not have the bennifit of other peoples experience and knowledge coming into the site either.

No new ideas, no alternatives, no growth just the same people posting over and over and over.....

Are you saying that you think the BOI has not grown, educated, and help people?

If that is your thinking I would have to strongly disagree. This site has grown dramatically since I joined in Oct 2003. It has helped me a few times, just recently by saving me $400.00 That to me is enough to continue supporting this site. Others have saved thousands!!! Not to mention the revenue the site brings to the many advertisers and small time breeders that mingle here.

To say that the site is exclusive is correct. In a sense it is. But to imply that the site has excluded people is ridiculous. People exclude themselves. Either through their own actions and behavior while here (being suspended) or by not joining in the first place.

Just my .02

 

[Jim O]

A $10 admission fee is hardly exclusive. Any reptile keeper who cannot afford $10 cannot afford to keep reptiles, nevermind their monthly internet access fee.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

To say that the site is exclusive is correct.

The site is exclusive to those who want to be here.

Those who chose to exclude themselves over $10 or got kicked off because they showed their ass to everyone deserve to be excluded............

It's entirely their loss.......

 

[Lucille]

And statistics belie the statement that there is no growth, there are many new registrations daily; not to mention paid memberships.

I myself meet many new people as I go through Fauna, it is definitely growing, with new ideas and new people coming aboard.

 

[W.Wedeking]

I thought I clarified this with "then" and "now" however, so there is no misunderstanding...

I was refering to before the site went pay to post and after it went pay to post.

I am well aware how it was growing. My Husband and I spent a great deal of time handing out fliers for Fauna and the BOI for Rich. We handed them out at shows, sent them in our orders, linked Fauna to our website, told everyone we met and watched the sites membership skyrocket.

Yes, $10 is enough to make it exclusive....my knowledge and experience is extreemely valuable, why should I pay to give something away that I get paid for?

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Lucille you the hardest working people greeter I have ever known. This site has no idea what a great asset it has in you.

You put my local Wal-Mart people greeter to shame!!!

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Yes, $10 is enough to make it exclusive....my knowledge and experience is extreemely valuable, why should I pay to give something away that I get paid for?

You would pay the $10 simply to enjoy the many other perks the site has to offer as well as the information sharing.

If you honestly feel that the $10 is what's holding you back from sharing your fount of information, then I believe you might be holding yourself back.

 

[W.Wedeking]

A $10 admission fee is hardly exclusive. Any reptile keeper who cannot afford $10 cannot afford to keep reptiles, nevermind their monthly internet access fee.

Pull your head out of the sand. It is not a matter of what can be afforded, it is a matter of what someone is willing to pay.

 

[Lucille]

Mike, what a nice thing to say, thank you!......

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Pull your head out of the sand. It is not a matter of what can be afforded, it is a matter of what someone is willing to pay.

Are you referring to yourself and what you are willing to pay or just speaking in general?

Well if YOU are not willing to pay $10.00 to share your "information" I would question the value of the person behind said information.

I mean come on, talk about a head being in sand. If you saw a situation on here that you knew the answer to and no one else did, you wouldn't join to help that person because it's not something your willing to do?

If so I have to say it's not the sand your head is in..........

 

[Jim O]

Pull your head out of the sand. It is not a matter of what can be afforded, it is a matter of what someone is willing to pay.

My head is hardly in the sand, and that comment was uncalled for. ANY organization is exclusive by virtue of its very existence. Some people would exclude themselves because they do not want to give out their e-mail address or their full name. The $10 fee does not make this site more exclusive. If it were $1000 I would agree that it does, but not at $10. It is people who are excluding themselves. See the difference?

As for your paying for the privilege of giving advice that you should get paid for, well that is hardly the case either. You only need to pay to post on a few parts of the site. The reptile discussion forums are still free.

 

[Ophis]

I think both sides of the argument deserve alot of merit. Favoritism, exclusion and valuable information exist on this site.

 

[WebSlave]

I thought I clarified this with "then" and "now" however, so there is no misunderstanding...

I was refering to before the site went pay to post and after it went pay to post.

I am well aware how it was growing. My Husband and I spent a great deal of time handing out fliers for Fauna and the BOI for Rich. We handed them out at shows, sent them in our orders, linked Fauna to our website, told everyone we met and watched the sites membership skyrocket.

Yes, $10 is enough to make it exclusive....my knowledge and experience is extreemely valuable, why should I pay to give something away that I get paid for?

Uh, sorry, but this "site" is NOT "pay to post" as you have indicated. This should be pretty obvious because YOU are posting HERE.

I'm sure I am probably reading that statement about the flyers wrong, but are you really saying that the growth of this site is solely because of your efforts? Now don't take this as not being thankful of you guys spreading out those flyers, but I have a field that new members can fill out to indicate where they have heard about this site from. Doing a search on "Scales" nets ten (10) members claiming that they heard about this site from your efforts. That is dating from December 25th, 2003 to present. Granted, perhaps many people did not feel like filling out that blank field when they registered, so it may not be exactly accurate. But from what I can see, looking at the stats, by far the biggest source of new members here is from the search engine hits. Nothing else even comes close. Not attempting to belittle your efforts, but I just want to make sure we are straight about what we are talking about here.

Now, about that comment about your "knowledge and experience is extremely valuable", well whose isn't? Including mine? Do you charge to give people information that come into your store? Do you take credit card numbers before you answer questions on the phone? Knowledge kept capped up in your head really isn't of much value to anyone else, now is it? Do you expect people to contact you about information that might be on the BOI? So instead, you are withholding that $10 fee and the information you have that MIGHT save someone from making a mistake because YOU had to pay for that information? Interesting philosophy, I guess. Every man (and woman) for himself (or herself) I guess. Well suppose everyone thought light that? Might be an excellent atmosphere for bad guys to flourish in, I suppose.

 

[critical bill]

Yes, $10 is enough to make it exclusive....my knowledge and experience is extreemely valuable,

Do most knowledgeable people know how to spell extremely?

why should I pay to give something away that I get paid for?

Wow, sounds like a statement from a "lady of the evening" in HBO episode I watched once...Hookers On The Point.

Say Wendy, if someone begged long enough would you give them a freebie? It worked in the show.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Now, about that comment about your "knowledge and experience is extremely valuable", well whose isn't? Including mine? .

I couldn't agree more. Most everyone has something to share, although I sometimes wonder about myself. Anywho, if I can help out one person on this site with something I have said or suggested.......... Then the $10.00 I spent to post here was well worth it.

 

[W.Wedeking]

Uh, sorry, but this "site" is NOT "pay to post" as you have indicated. This should be pretty obvious because YOU are posting HERE.

I'm sure I am probably reading that statement about the flyers wrong, but are you really saying that the growth of this site is solely because of your efforts? Now don't take this as not being thankful of you guys spreading out those flyers, but I have a field that new members can fill out to indicate where they have heard about this site from. Doing a search on "Scales" nets ten (10) members claiming that they heard about this site from your efforts. That is dating from December 25th, 2003 to present. Granted, perhaps many people did not feel like filling out that blank field when they registered, so it may not be exactly accurate. But from what I can see, looking at the stats, by far the biggest source of new members here is from the search engine hits. Nothing else even comes close. Not attempting to belittle your efforts, but I just want to make sure we are straight about what we are talking about here.

Now, about that comment about your "knowledge and experience is extremely valuable", well whose isn't? Including mine? Do you charge to give people information that come into your store? Do you take credit card numbers before you answer questions on the phone? Knowledge kept capped up in your head really isn't of much value to anyone else, now is it? Do you expect people to contact you about information that might be on the BOI? So instead, you are withholding that $10 fee and the information you have that MIGHT save someone from making a mistake because YOU had to pay for that information? Interesting philosophy, I guess. Every man (and woman) for himself (or herself) I guess. Well suppose everyone thought light that? Might be an excellent atmosphere for bad guys to flourish in, I suppose.

Rich,
I was mearly pointing out that we have been big supporters of this site. If you like I can point out some of the other ways we have supported this site (and you) as well. People here seem to think that because my Husband and I do not agree with the pay system (or anyone else who doesn't agree) are against this site (or you personally) and that is not how it is at all.

There are certain areas that are pay to post.

I wasn't insinuating that others experience and knowledge were of less value, but pointing out some of my feelings/opinions. And if I have these opinions/feelings there are others who have the same. But most do not express them here as they get dogpiled by the "Included" and/or are bombarded with negative rep points.

No, I do not necessarily hand out information to anyone who wants it. I am a busy women who takes care of phone, internet and in-store customers and I take care of all my breeders/babies/eggs. Those who have purchased animals/supplies from us are given priority and I do consider that since they have made a purchase, they have also paid for my expertise. Potential customers also get the benifits of my expertise so they can make informed purchases.

"Knowledge kept capped up in your head really isn't of much value to anyone else, now is it?"

That is pretty much my point. Excluding people does the same thing. From what I see, you are ending up with a small group of people who think one way and that is it. There is no objectivity. There are no alternatives.

The whole reason my Husband and I came here in the first place is that it was professional and objective. There was a certain air of respect and decorum even if you didn't like/agree with someone. The objective of the BOI was to root out bad guys, use peer pressure in a professional way to help clear up misunderstandings and encourage those who are in the business to remain professional so the Reptile industry would look better as a whole. I think that has most definately been lost.

The truth is, it makes me very sad that it comes to this. We (my Husband and I both) consider you a friend, and it pains both of us to have to make a stand this way. But neither of us thinks that we would be much of a friend if all we did was tell you what you wanted to hear.

 

[Lucille]

Mike, the way I see it, that kind of attitude alone makes you a welcome member anywhere on this site. I believe that the best attribute someone can have around here is a willingness to help out, and share whatever knowledge and experience they have.

 

[Wilomn]

What some of you may not know is that Dan and Wendy own a retail store. They have dingleberries coming in all day long, everyday they are open, not to mention the ones on the internet, asking stupid questions about animals that they did not purchase from Dan and Wendy. This gets quite tiring after a while.

When I had my store I finally reached the point that I simply refused to deal with problems people had with their animals if they did NOT purchase from me. It sounds cold, and in a way it is, but when you sell what you know to make your living and have some nimrod buy from someone else to save 5 dollars and THEN have the nerve to come back to you to find out what's wrong, do you really OWE that nimrod anything? I say NO.

Let them go back where they got the animal and deal with them. Time was when if you weren't my personal customer, I didn't deal with you. MY time was more valuable to me than the return I would get by giving away information I had spent years aquiring to someone too cheap to purchase my animal that was higher in price because of quality and the fact that MY knowledge went with every sale I made.

Try talking to hundreds of people asking why their snake won't eat live mice since the time it got bit, why their iguana won't eat pineapple and won't poop in the box like the guy at the OTHER petshop said it would. Try explaining for the MILLIONTH time that YES, the little green guy you bought WILL get SIX feet long whether or NOT you keep him in a ten gallon tank and WHY would you keep him in a ten gallon tank to begin with?

Do that for a while and you realize what your knowledge is worth because you HAVE customers that DO spend money with you that have questions of their own to whom you do owe something to.

I don't always agree with them, Dan and Wendy, and this time I don't think we're on the same page, perhaps in the same chapter of the same book but not the same page, but to give them crap for the way they feel without having experianced firsthand the crap they deal with is a bit much.

Their reason, if they are the ones I've written above, are quite valid and logically lead to the statements made by Wendy. They're not bad people, not at all but they do sell what they know for a living. Giving it away is not MANDATORY, it's optional.

Some lightening up is in order here, as far as I am concerned.