Fl.International Reptile Show?

[audrypayne]

It's not a matter of taking sides. It's a matter of right & wrong. Would you give your support to a man that was lied to, beaten up, threatened, and robbed? Or would you give support to the criminal?

 

[homegrownherps]

Let me state how i see this.

I am a buyer i go to the show to buy from vendors. I don't actually care who the promoter is or how long they have been around or how they conduct business because i am there only to purchase from the vendor. As long as there are vendors there that have animals i want to purchase i will go to purchase from that vendor.

Death threats are not only serious they are illegal and should be handled by having the other person arrested.

Joe Blow is mad at Peter Piper. They share the same friends. Joe says don't play with him he has cooties. Joe says if your his friend your not mine. Peter says don't play with him he's a jerk. If your his friend your not mine. Friends are forced to take sides. Childish yes.

Pretty much sums up the progression of this thread. We went from trying to inform the vendors that they may be at risk of a show cancellation they have allready paid for to gloating that the others show was a bust.

I have read all that has been posted on all this. I have no doubt that Tony did wrong. I started my post with my opinion trying to express that i only supported the vendors in this. And really didn't care to get into the debate on promoter vs promoter.

Sorry if the childish comment was taking personally by you. I don't know either of you, and honestly don't care what happens between the two parties. If i hear there is a reptile show local that may have something I'm intrested in. I base my decision on that.

You should care who the promoter is – for one I doubt that Tony will get very many ( if any ) quality vendors to sign up. So it should concern you as well as all the non-vendors. Do you really want to drive all the way to a show that advertises a big list of vendors and then when you get there more than half of those vendors were never signed up to begin with?

I know if I went as a non-vendor to a show because certain vendors were advertised to be there and then weren't there I would be pi$$ed…. that’s false advertisement. Making it a huge waste of my time and money.

It seems that you really don’t know what you’re talking about, because Joe Blow and Peter Piper DO NOT have the same friends. And I don’t vend at some shows and not others, because the promoters may or may not be my friends. I vend at shows to meet my customers and sell animals.
And not vending at Tony’s show was MY decision, not because someone else said “Peter says don't play with him he's a jerk.” I wasn't “forced” to take any ones side and I don’t think anyone else was either. You make it sound as though we can’t think for ourselves.

I wasn't offended by your comments; I am merely voicing my opinion. Just as you are voicing yours. Why make a statement and then apologize for it. You did have time proof read what you posted and could have edited it before posting.

Maybe if more people started caring about the integrity and intentions of the promoters we would have better quality show.

 

[eric adrignola]

One point that he's making - and I agree - is that you cannot count on
people to NOT go to Tony's shows. You should not be angry with
people going to his shows, vendong at his shows, for supporting his
shows, etc. Yeah, they are neabling him, allowing him to do his thing
over and over, but in the end, it's their moeny and their decision.

I'd go to any show if I knew I coudl buy feeders, or a particular animal.
And that's what the average person is like. they don't care who the
promoter is, as long as they deliver. If they need 2,000 crickets and
superworms, so me frozen rats and a ball python, and they can get it all
at a show, they're happy. If they expect Vendor A,B, and C, and only
Vendor X and Y are actually AT the show - then they'll be pissed.

If Vendor X and Y have animals and supplies to sell, need money, and
Tony's got a show nearby, at the righ ttime, you really can't fault them
for "enabling" Tony by vending at his shows. They are no more at fault
than they were when they vended at BOTH Tony's and Cathy's shows
- they need to work just as much as anyone.

If you believe that Tony's shows are harming the hobby/industry - don't
go to them, dont' vend at them. If you believe that he is doing wrong,
fine. If you dont' care, and need to make money, and vending at Tony's
show is an option, big deal - you do what you gotta do.

We weigh our options and decide what to do based on the good and
bad that results from it. I think it's foolish to believe that nobody will
attend/vend Tony's shows because it's "wrong". It's a business, people
base business decisions (especially when they are unaware/dont' give a
rat's rear about the in-fighting) on money and what's best for THEM.

Some of us are fortunate enough to be in a position where we can make
a decision based not only on monetary factors, but on ethical or moral
reasons. After everything, I still consider Tony my friend, and I really
wish him the best - I hope he gets things fixed up. However, I was at
home this week, and I can't emphasize how much I could use the
money right now.

Eric A

 

[cowboyman13]

You should care who the promoter is – for one I doubt that Tony will get very many ( if any ) quality vendors to sign up. So it should concern you as well as all the non-vendors. Do you really want to drive all the way to a show that advertises a big list of vendors and then when you get there more than half of those vendors were never signed up to begin with?

I know if I went as a non-vendor to a show because certain vendors were advertised to be there and then weren't there I would be pi$$ed…. that’s false advertisement. Making it a huge waste of my time and money.?

I quess if i showed for a show and there was no vendor there that was on the list then your correct i would be pissed and that would effect me.

It seems that you really don’t know what you’re talking about, because Joe Blow and Peter Piper DO NOT have the same friends. And I don’t vend at some shows and not others, because the promoters may or may not be my friends. I vend at shows to meet my customers and sell animals.
And not vending at Tony’s show was MY decision, not because someone else said “Peter says don't play with him he's a jerk.” I wasn't “forced” to take any ones side and I don’t think anyone else was either. You make it sound as though we can’t think for ourselves.

The childish comment was meant as the way i seen the progression of this thread, And how i felt about the continuing bickering publicly between two promoters and yes there friends. Once again only my opinon.

I wasn't offended by your comments; I am merely voicing my opinion. Just as you are voicing yours. Why make a statement and then apologize for it. You did have time proof read what you posted and could have edited it before posting.

If you werent offended then there is no need to apologize, And your correct it was only my opinion.

Maybe if more people started caring about the integrity and intentions of the promoters we would have better quality show.

Maybe there is a better way to get the buying public to understand the issues.

 

[Gino]

The "issue" is honesty.
I guess it either matters or it doesn't
Gino

 

[cowboyman13]

The "issue" is honesty.
I guess it either matters or it doesn't
Gino

And it does. My point is here is what you see if you are the buying public. You see one accusing one publicly on his website or thru his emails about shows. The other takes a more professional stance, and when his supporters don't feel he's standing up for himself enough they start a debate with the other ones supporters which i have seen on previous threads on here.

Note: not really on this one. but in the past.

Now homegrownherps makes a very good point. If there are advertised vendors that aren't actually there then yes that directly effects the buying public.

 

[homegrownherps]

Now homegrownherps makes a very good point. If there are advertised vendors that aren't actually there then yes that directly effects the buying public.

False advertising is only one issue, there are many. But it still seems in some peoples eyes that Tony can do no wrong and will continure support his ethics.

I do my best NOT support criminals. Especially when they attempt to hurt me or my business.

And I feel it necessary to inform EVERYONE , vendors and show participants alike. Thats what the whole BOI is for right, or is just for some bad guys?

I have seen people get ripped apart for a lot less here on the BOI.

 

[cowboyman13]

False advertising is only one issue, there are many. But it still seems in some peoples eyes that Tony can do no wrong and will continure support his ethics.

I do my best NOT support criminals. Especially when they attempt to hurt me or my business.

And I feel it necessary to inform EVERYONE , vendors and show participants alike. Thats what the whole BOI is for right, or is just for some bad guys?

I have seen people get ripped apart for a lot less here on the BOI.

I haven't actually seen a BOI thread on this or missed it. But i think thats a great idea. Because then at least you get facts. You have a stance in this and was directly effected. I think thats a really good idea. If there is one will you please bump it up for me. At least then everythings there. Its not just what someone else heared or seen. When you post on the BOI its documentation along with it.

But if you do then make it about you and your issue. Not someone else's. So we can see why you are so adamant about all this. I use the BOI quite a bit for researching who to purchase from and yes that would make more of an impression in my mind.

Please don't think i support anyone here. Once again i am only stating my opinion. I missed both shows the one at the fairgrounds and the one in clearwater. Not out of supporting or not supporting either one. Simply the mackerel are running now. Thats more appealing than traffic and tourists. The one at the fairgrounds by Alex was missed only because i was working. So i am taking no sides here.

 

[homegrownherps]

why don't you start by reading this entire thread.
Why would any one need MORE than what has been posted here already.

People tried to warn me, I was loyal to him until he TRIED to screw me. I guess some people have to learn the hard way.

 

[homegrownherps]

One other thing - to those of you that are friends w/ Tony, since so many of us are wrong why is it he hasn't come here and tried to explain his actions?

When he posted all that crap on his site about the "other promoter" in his attempt sabotage the show , there was great potential to hurt every single vendor at that show as well.

 

[Gino]

Ok Stop With The E-Mails Already!
For those who now say I turned on Tony because Alex asked me to I will post my last exchange of E-Mails with Tony.
You will see that it was Tony who suddenly turned on me just because I expressed reluctance to attend the Harbor View Show. In the span of 3 e-mails his tone went from seeking advise from a friend to name calling and crazy talk.
No one turns on Tony because Alex says he's a jerk.
People turn on Tony because of his "You're with me or against me attitude"
Even after this war started I offered to sit down with Tony and talk about honoring my commitment to release the CD at his show.

Here are the E-Mails.
This is how one falls out with Tony.
I suggest you judge for yourself.

Gino - I wanted to discuss several things with you, see what you think.

1)What do you think, especially after having been involved and helping negotiate a deal with Alex.I am shocked, saddened, have lost all faith in humanity. On Friday I hired and paid a law firm everthing I have, $3,000 for retainer. They are going to work with me as far as payment, are even willing to hold some of the billing until after my show but it is going to cost me $10,000+ to sue Alex and to obtain the court injunction against his show. Of all people, someone I trusted like no one else, someone that until the beginning of December I was speaking with on a regular basis, someone who I called on Christmas to wish a Merry Christmas.

2)Would you like to play on the cruise ship? It looks like we are going to do 2 dinner cruise due to number of exhibitors and VIPS. I spoke to SunCruz today again and we may have to do VIP dinner on Friday and the vendor dinner on Saturday. Would you be intersted in playing one of these two nights? I thought if you wanted to do 1 of the nights, or both, I would offer to you 1st, then to Dennis Sargent.

My Reply

Hey Tony,
Right now I don't feel comfortable committing to anything.
I think having a talk would be the best way to sort things out.
As a legal person I'm not sure your $3,000 was well spent.
I'm not sure what your grounds are.
Hell, we all thought you gave up Tampa.
There is NO SIGNED agreement Tony and we both know that.
I must admit I certainly thought so.
Like I said. I'll gladly take you to lunch some weekday.
Let me know,
Gino

Tony’s Reply:

Gino-And the email coming from the most two faced vendor I have ever met!!!

Wow, somehow I am the bad guy now Gino? Had Alex really though I had cancelled the show, one simple phone call would have corrected that. My Columbia show was Jan 8 & 9 and in the 4000 + newsletters I sent to everone including you I said just after Christmas that the newsletters were about the Columbia, SC show in 2 weeks and some information on the Richmond show and that the following newsletter would be about the Florida International Reptile Show and I wished everyone a happy holiday!
Sue me Gino!!!

Tony

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Let me state how i see this.

I am a buyer i go to the show to buy from vendors. I don't actually care who the promoter is or how long they have been around or how they conduct business because i am there only to purchase from the vendor. As long as there are vendors there that have animals i want to purchase i will go to purchase from that vendor.

Death threats are not only serious they are illegal and should be handled by having the other person arrested.

Joe Blow is mad at Peter Piper. They share the same friends. Joe says don't play with him he has cooties. Joe says if your his friend your not mine. Peter says don't play with him he's a jerk. If your his friend your not mine. Friends are forced to take sides. Childish yes.

Pretty much sums up the progression of this thread. We went from trying to inform the vendors that they may be at risk of a show cancellation they have allready paid for to gloating that the others show was a bust.

I have read all that has been posted on all this. I have no doubt that Tony did wrong. I started my post with my opinion trying to express that i only supported the vendors in this. And really didn't care to get into the debate on promoter vs promoter.

Sorry if the childish comment was taking personally by you. I don't know either of you, and honestly don't care what happens between the two parties. If i hear there is a reptile show local that may have something I'm intrested in. I base my decision on that.

Jimmy

While I agree that from the viewpoint of someone on the outside of the situation, this might look like a "he said he said" sort of argumant, those of us a bit more involved in the industry know the back story.

I am not going to rehash all of the evidence and documentation in this and the other thread again. Suffice to say that Tony spent almost three months spreading total crap all over the internet in an attempt to sabotage Alex's show in any way he could. That is documented by excerpts from his site, newsletters he emailed out and a number of emails that have been posted in whole or part. A true word did not leave his mouth during that time.

Alex, on the other hand, maintained a professional demeanor through it all. Did some of us in the know come to his defense? Damn right. I will not and never have been one to support a bald faced liar like Tony. Are a number of us somewhat pleased at the lack of support Tony's show received? You bet. Not because we wanted the show to fail but because it demonstrates that the industry is not blind to the crap he spewed for weeks and weeks. I feel very badly for the vendors who did work the show. They were expecting a large well run affair and got, well, what they got. It's a damn shame that he hoodwinked them as well.

This was not a case of choosing sides based on monetary issues. The parameters in this choice were character and professionalism

 

[audrypayne]

Alex is not the only show promoter that Tony tried to viciously sabotage. He also tried the same crap with Cathy Elrod. He'll do anything to get vendors & get spectators through the door. The last show that I did for him was in Greenville SC. Judging it by his website, I thought it would be a huge show. Not even half the vendors on his confirmed list was there. People passing by my table were complaining that they paid to get in, but it was a waste of their money. He had it falsely advertised. His website promises a full refund of table fees if he cannot prove with documentation any claims made against his advertising policy. But I have not received any refund nor documentation. He promised live radio broadcast, and a seminar by Roark Fergusen. Neither of which were in attendance in Greenville. Hey Tony, where's my money? $265

 

["cocheta"]

new member here...
dont mean to but in but I've just finished reading 19 pages of on again & off again shows.,this promoter sux blah blah blah
what is going on here?????? is this the way the pet industry is??? maybe i should seriosly rethink going to any shows!!! why would i want to spend my money with people who are so out to get one another??? if i did go to ANY shows i would be more worried about who is going to stab who & way to busy trying to make sure it didnt get placed in MY BAcK by accident!!!! This is totally ridiculous!!!i for one am appauled by how this looks when the general public comes on this thread to check out the vendors..etc!! do any of you realize how this looks????

 

[homegrownherps]

why would i want to spend my money with people who are so out to get one another???

Why would consider this the way the “whole industry” is ?
If you read it correctly you will see that this thread is about one BAD promoter and not the “whole industry” as you put it.

I know that if I were starting out as a new vendor, I would want to know who to watch out for.

And I know if I were to attend a show as a non vendor, I would also want to know that a show is worthy of my time, and that there would be a great selection of animals to choose from. I prefer to attend shows with reputable vendors and not the fly by night vendors.

 

[bcherps]

To Cocheta, and Cowboyman.

I do understand how this looks, and I do understand that this may look childish from one side.

However this is a very important issue. I began having issues with Tony in 2002 during my first show in the south(I had been vending for 4 years on the east coast)! I had animals stolen on friday night after setup when tony and the security guard were to only ones inside! I tried to report on his behavior, unproffessionalism and the theft.

Since at that time Tony had a good name in the industry-I was the one who got "flamed" on this very site. Well, I went on my business gave Tony another try and accepted this was the way things were done here. Well, I have been dissappointed, accosted, and scammed by Tony since then on no less than 3 other occasions. It has taken four years for Tony to finally tick off most of the industry to the point we couldn't take it anymore. I am glad that I am not the only one now.

But if you guys think this is childish or should be kept out of public view I ask you one question:

How would you like it if you spend $1000 for a endcap to vend-showed up to a booth covered in coffee cups and cigarette butts-told there was no broom and it was your responsibility to pick it up, were then told you had to move to another spot so one of tony's friends could take your spot becuase it had a better vantage point, then told you hadn't paid for your tables and were only given a partial space, then had over 10k of animals stolen, then when you complained had tony threaten you? The have the show open over 2 hours late becuase tony didn't bother to show up, or becusae he told the fire marshall some four letter expletives.

If you think this is fine for a promoter to do to his vendors then I say to you cowboy man-go to every show and give your money to every scumbag promoter out there so he can continue to scam.

And when you start vending Cocheta and this happens to you-don't you think you should tell others and make it known so it doesn't happen to other people? Or keep it quite so the promoter can continue to sucker people?

The problem in florida is not TOO many shows, it is TOO many half-assed shows.

Thanks
ben cole

 

["cocheta"]

bcherps,
My EXTREME APPOLOGIES TO YOU!!!
i understand now why you feel the way you do!!!
i am truly sorry i guess i made a post not knowing the extent of this conversation,,please excuse my lack of knowledge & thanks for explaining things!

 

[bcherps]

There is a reason why Tony left the party promotions business.

There is a reason why Tony left the limo business.

There is a reason why Tony is sinking in the reptile show promotion business.

The only question is where will he go next and how long he will last.


Thanks
ben cole

 

["cocheta"]

ok your right! i should be thankful for the warning! But isnt there some way to keep things explained so that he new person isnt going "holy crap! why would i want to chance going to any show?"

 

["cocheta"]

wow he does sound like he knows what good buisness means!