Fraud Warning: Chris Altizer/christal Ganley

[Gecko_Den]

Sam I have no argument that this could have been handled better. But I would say that he has accepted his responsibility and offered an explanation as follows:Now suppose he had expressed these concerns and shipped the snake back, and then Ken refunded the money. Two weeks later, PayPal comes along and takes it again from Ken except now Ken would have the snake and be out the $600 cash and we would be in the same place. Chris would owe Ken the $600. So in essence how he handled the other issues are moot. Yes, he handled them wrong, but had he done it right we would still be exactly where we are.

Jim, had Chris returned the snake and Ken refunded the money to Chris through Pay Pal, I don't believe he would have been charged the $600 again. And if he had it would have been simple to clear up by showing Pay pal that the money was refunded.

However, going back to my previous statement, had Chris done as you said and sent the snake back in the beginning, I'm betting that Ken would have been a lot more understanding, and willing to work things out if later Pay Pal would have tried to take the money back.

Regardless, I've pretty much expressed my opinion on the subject more times than was necessary. It has gotten to the point that we are arguing/discussing points that should be handled by the parties involved.

Ken I hope everything works out for you. Chris I hope you make things right. Jim I commend you for being a stand up guy and going out on a limb for Chris, even if I don't agree with you.

I'm done, unless of course someone addresses me specifically, in which case I reserve the right to come back and bore you some more.

 

[Reptile Basics]

Now I am missing some of the fun here

I have been out putting trim on the rat building, about 100 degrees out there today. Didn't think I was in Florida but it sure feels like it. Anyone need a rat??
I will say I am taking the middle road on this. Chris without a doubt blew it. I wouldn't be in the middle of any road if it was me in Kens spot. Trying to resell w/o any contact is pretty lame. That wasn't my end of it so I can look at it just slightly more objectively. Maybe.
Jim, why would I be embarrassed by your statements. I couldn't create a better "good guy" story about either of us if I tried. I would point out you were on the phone pronto and I fixed about as fast and we were all happy and sharing our happy thoughts here. I really didn't leave you much time at all to come here and post anything even if you wanted to before your goods were on the way. Perhaps if I took my time, say a week or so? before sending out your replacement you would not have had as happy thoughts?? Sound like a story we have heard recently??
Thanks for your offer but I will pass. That is very generous but not a solution. Let Chris make or break himself. I would like to be able to post here in a few days that all is well and he did what he said he was going to do, though I am not sure he has really done that yet?? Maybe I missed it. Oh and by the way, the reason I ran right to the boi is because Ken had him a pretty good gripe going and for me to wait a week or two to say "oh yeah, he got me too" is about hopeless. nope, since it made it here, and that is what it is for, it will play out here good or bad.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com

 

[kenfosterpb]

Everyone thank you for your words of wisdom, support and understanding. For those showing support for Chris, I am afraid you are as trusting as I was of his stories. I suspect that you are like me and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, a good and noble quality to have in today’s world and I respect you for that.

Fortunately, the amount of money owned to me is not substantial. I am only out $1200. The value of the snake I sold and the amount I had to pay Paypal for the money they advanced to Chris’s checking account in order for him to buy an animal he did not have the money for in the first place. I have honestly lost more to others selling on Kingsnake this year (Van and Deb). This is a hobby for me and not a business, having said that, I am also not a bank. Chris purchased this animal on July 4, 2005 and accepted delivery on July 6, 2005. This is now July 21, 2005. Although he has had possession of my pastel since July 6th, I have not had possession of his money yet. I ask you that think I am impatient, do you sell and ship your animals in advance of being paid. Do you try to sell an animal that you bought even before you have paid for it? I waited more than two weeks after he had possession of my snake and even after I saw it on sell on this website before intervening and demanding my money or my snake. If I would have reacted faster I might have my money or my snake today.

As for Chris, he can keep my snake or the money he got for it when he attempted to sell it on Fauna even before it probably feed for him the first time. Six hundred bucks is a hard days work for me. Paypal can keep their six hundred bucks I had to pay them because they are bigger than me and there is nothing I can do about it.

What I will not let go is the legal issues that are involved here. Paypal, Federal Express and his local law enforcement agree with me on this strongly. Buying anything with your checking account, or in this case someone else’s, (Christal Ganley’s), when there is no money in it is illegal, mistake or not. My bank certainly does not advance money in my checking account. Shouldn’t Chris or Christal Ganley, since is was her checking account and her that signed for the shipment upon delivery by Federal Express, have made good on their financial commitment or at least shipped my animal back immediately or say within two weeks of not knowing they did not have the money to pay for it? Thank God I talked him out of buying a female pastel too. Did he tell you that he also sent $3000 for another snake only to cancel that transaction too? They must have been way off in their registry if they thought they could spend $3600 on snakes. I guess he forgot to mention that to everyone too. Fortunately I did not take possession of his deposit. As I told him I do not sell animals I don’t have.

Chris also failed to mention that I gave him the snake for hundreds off my asking price because he really, really wanted to bred pastels. Did he tell you that I was also willing to sell him a male spider for $3000. more than 2500 below market price when I expect spiders to clutch in August? I really thought he was a nice young man and I don’t mind helping people out. I do it everyday. If you know me at all you know how extremely fair and honest I am. As some of you know, I give away high value snakes to small breeders and individuals starting out their collections. I have always sold below retail prices or below what I paid for them to help other small breeders. My honesty and integrity is what I am known for. If you don’t believe it visit my hobbyist site www.fosterreptiles.net or google my name in Palm Beach County, Florida and you will learn more about me.

I don’t intend to debate who is right are wrong and no one else should waste their time doing it either. Legal matters are handled by attorneys and law enforcement, of which I am neither.

With all due respect to everyone, thank you again. Fortunately or unfortunately I do not post often, only when I really feel strongly that I should warn others about potential problem buyers and sellers. Please don’t respond to this email, or to me at least. This is my last visit to this post.

To everyone, happy herping and good fortune Also never accept Paypal instant payments or echecks. Only ship to confirmed addresses of registered PayPal users.

Best Regards,
Ken Foster

 

[Reptile Basics]

Well..

that doesent make Chris/Christal sound too swift does it? That is one helluva miscalculation in the old checkbook. We will see what is done about it. Chris came off of the fact he has enough to pay me in his possesion a few posts back. Hows about a resolution out of them or I will have to join Ken in his pursuit of justice pretty soon. Send the $$ or the merchandise. I will make good if I get paid by Paypal which quite frankly isn't likely anyhow. Shoot, with my complaint added on to Ken's we might almost make felony? Ya think?
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com

 

[gant77]

Paypal Sucks!

I don't post much and this isn't a "plea" for anyone. I too though am having problems with PayPal. They returned a Payment I made to Evan Stahl (great guy, beautiful Ball Pythons) even though the money was there in my account, there was a simple hold (bank policy) on the funds BUT after talking to Evan he told me that the money went into his account and is still there! So basically there is money floating around and it doesn't make sense. The Payment to Evan should have brought my balance to around $8.00 (snake account) But My balance reads $248.00 So I have a ok balance, Evan has his money, but they took it away???? :scatter:

Go figure, I have to put this account "on hold" because PayPal can't get their act together. BTW i have gotten slammed by Phony PayPal e-mails.
Anyone else having that problem???

P.S. If the $3500.00 1.0 Spider is still available, can we talk???

 

[Borewyrm]

Fortunately, the amount of money owned to me is not substantial. I am only out $1200.

Can I be your friend!?

Did he tell you that he also sent $3000 for another snake only to cancel that transaction too? They must have been way off in their registry if they thought they could spend $3600 on snakes. I

Not for nothing ... but if you lack overdraft protection you could have $3599.99 in the bank and it would still bounce like a rubber ball. I do hope you get your money though as much as I chuckled when I read that 1200 is not substatial the priciple still stands.
Padraic Devine

 

[Jim O]

I am only out $1200. The value of the snake I sold and the amount I had to pay Paypal for the money they advanced to Chris’s checking account in order for him to buy an animal he did not have the money for in the first place.

Ken, your arithmetic is off by a factor of two. You are out one snake, value $600 (that's what you sold it for so that's the value). Here's how it works. Assume there was $0 in your bank account to start with and you only owned one snake for the sake of simplicity. At the start you had:

$0 in your bank account and one snake.

Chris sends you $600, you ship out a snake. Now you have:

$600 in your bank account and no snakes.

PayPal takes back $600. Now you have:

$0 in your bank account and no snakes.

Net changes:

Well, you started with $0 in your bank account and you ended with $0 in your bank account. No change.

You started with one snake and now you no longer have it. Net change of one snake. Value of that snake $600.

Hence, you are out $600, not $1200. If you do not understand this, consider the following: if the withdrawal by PayPal had not happened, you would have been "even". They took $600 from you so you are out $600. To say you are out $1200 is overstating the facts.

See how easy it is to misunderstand your bank balances? You just did. You have jumped to conclusions about Chris and ASSumed he is a criminal and not simply inept at finances. You're not a bad guy here, but compared to say Bill Leverton who stole a snake intentionally or some of these other dirtballs who deny what has happened, Chris has come here and admitted responsibility and whether or not you choose to believe him, he has acted in a somewhat calmer and more honest way than many of the dirtballs here.

Seeing as how you have made a classic "double entry" bookkeeping error is it so hard to see how someone else might have?

 

[HerpLuver]

Ken, In regards to you making me a deal on that "pastel", you posted it on kingsnake.com for 600 dollars. You did me no favor in making a reduction in price.

I am sorry for coming off like im trying to put all the blame on Ken. It is NOT his fault as i have said, and those who are saying i have not apparently arent reading the whole thread. I just believe this was handled incorrectly for someone of such professional stature as Ken Foster.

I called Ken today and left a message stating that my boss is willing to loan me the money in order to make everything right here. In total 1100 dollars just to make it an even amount. I will either receive it this paycheck or next paycheck. I get paid weekly and on friday. This money will be placed in my paypal account IMMEDIATELY to be divied up to the appropriate parties.

Also, I spoke to Capt Henry Trabert of the Aberdeen Police dept today about this situation. He, unfortunately, has no idea about who Ken Foster is, or any details of this situation. I explained in more detail to see if i could refresh his memory and he still had no clue.

Just finished speaking to Paypal, After i send them the money it is going to take 7-10 business days in order for the money to be deposited into my account and then a day or two to be distributed to the parties. I will let everyone involved know when the funds have been sent which will then give an approximate idea of when the funds will be in the account, and when they will be redircted to YOUR accounts.

All i ask, Once the funds have been placed into your accounts that you post on here that i have releived my debt to you.

Again i apologize for the inconvenience, My stupid actions and anything stupid i may have said that was offensive in any way.

 

[Reptile Basics]

ALL IS WELL!!!! A happy ending for me and Chris.

Said I would come sing Chris's praises if it got fixed, well it did! Somehow, magic maybe, Paypal has put the $$ back into my account! Chris has done what he said he would and is now an OK guy in my book. Not really impressed with the execution of his purchases and book keeping but ok none the less. Now if he can get Ken straight, if Ken will let him anyhow, We should all be good to go. Ken, not trying to be critical but it works better when you apply pressure and leave a way out, the right way. I would have been equally pissed in your shoes,and in fact was, but not allowing any resolution at all doesent really get you what you want most of the time and if the law really doesent know anything about this you kinda shot yourself in the foot saying they do. Takes most of the credibility out of your threats.

Everything is cool on my end now EXCEPT for Paypal. They are gone from my site ASAP . Monday I will be beginning the setup of a shopping cart with SSL and processing through a realtime processing company. Already talked to my guy with my current CC processing. Gonna set up checks/debit cards as well and of course will still accept money orders, wire xfer, etc. I am hoping that it will actually be more convenient and a bunch safer for both my customers and myself to do business. If the money isnt in the account they simply wont process it. Declined, what a novel idea?! Cant be any worse than Paypals ambushing policy. Chris, buy anything you like from me in the future, no problem. Just check your balance first. Now where is Kim Felts????????

Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com

 

[HerpLuver]

Thank you very much Rich. I do intend on future purchases from you especially from your supplies page . I am glad everything is settled between me and you. Now for Ken and Micheal Williams (Posted a good guy post on him about 2 weeks back, he also had the same problem, but is currently out of state visiting family)

 

[Jungle Gems]

Excellent outcome!

Chris has done what he said he would and is now an OK guy in my book.

That's wonderful to hear, although I can't say I'm particularly surprised. I've been in agreement with Jim O. since the beginning about Chris's character. Chris may have screwed up (maybe or maybe not through any fault of his own), but he didn't have a single ounce of all the classic signs of a scammer. He was quick to reply here on the BOI, and not just reply but actually ANSWER QUESTIONS, and that is something that typical scammers attempt with ardency to avoid.

I do hope Ken and company follow your suit once they have been payed as well.

Jennifer Webb
JungleGemExotics
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

 

[kenfosterpb]

That's funny I have not seen my money for the my snake. Did he pay someone else by mistake? lol I must have missed his redemption and return to good guy status. I will be happy to let everyone know when does he pays up. This July 24th, a full twenty days after he bought the animal. Banks must be a little more forgiving in MA. Here in Florida you need to make good on your overdrafts in a day or two. Again, if everyone is so interested in selling snakes and taking payment sometime in the future, I am looking for a few pieds, pins, and for good measure a bumblebee. I promise to accept your package and will pay...well maybe, sometime. Oh and sorry about the loss of your animal. lol.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

That's funny I have not seen my money for the my snake. Did he pay someone else by mistake? lol I must have missed his redemption and return to good guy status. I will be happy to let everyone know when does he pays up. This July 24th, a full twenty days after he bought the animal. Banks must be a little more forgiving in MA. Here in Florida you need to make good on your overdrafts in a day or two. Again, if everyone is so interested in selling snakes and taking payment sometime in the future, I am looking for a few pieds, pins, and for good measure a bumblebee. I promise to accept your package and will pay...well maybe, sometime. Oh and sorry about the loss of your animal. lol.

Ken
I understand your frustration (beem there once or twice myself). But it sounds like this guy has legitamate plans to fix the situation. We can always shred him if he doesn't come through in the next few days. My input is to give him till the end of the week to fix the problem. If he doesn't, I'll be the first to volunteer to light the bonfire we roast him over

 

[A_Kendergirl]

I thought I would toss my 2 cents into this muck.

I can understand where Ken would feel like he's being ripped off. However, as Jim O has stated, you are only out $600 or a snake, not $1200. A return of either the $600 or the snake will make things even.

I must also say, I was there the first night in chat that Chris was talking about. He was happily posting pictures and talking about what a great deal he felt he got. Someone (I don't recall who) said they didn't think it was a pastel. Several other people got involved (it was a fairly full chat room) and also said they didn't think it was a pastel and requested photos of the eyes. Chris posted a photo or two of the head, and still people were saying not a pastel. I could practically hear Chris's stomach hit the floor. From the view point of everyone in the room that night, it was Chris who had gotten scammed.

Chris did a couple things wrong. He didn't keep proper track of his finances (which will happen to almost everyone at some point in time). He also didn't contact Ken about proper identity of the morph or sex. It was a poor decision on his part to sell the snake rather then talk to Ken first. However, from my understanding of things, Chris may not have been aware about the Paypal issue at that time. I can easily see where Chris would have felt at that point in time that the snake was his to sell.

I do not think Chris was trying to scam anyone. I simply think several things went bad that APPEAR that things might be shady.

Ken - what is the gigantic rush to prosecute all about? Chris is trying to make things right, and they can't always happen over night. Chris has said that he's getting a loan from him boss to cover the payment to you. He said it would take roughly 10 days before everything would be in the clear. Yet 2 days later you're still complaining you don't have your money and calling him a scammer. Hold your freaking horses! Give him the time he needs to make things right. If, in two weeks, you still don't have your money and Chris has cut contact - go prosecute all you want! It won't hurt you much to wait two weeks - but by pressing charges now it can hurt Chris a LOT - despite his efforts to make thing right.

 

[loteer]

I understand Chris's position and i do not think he is a scammer especially how fast he responded after this thread started. I personally would wait and give him more time just because of the quick response and an explanation that happens.

On the other hand you I understand Ken's position especially if something similar has happened to him before and waiting cost him in the end.

After all is said and done Chris is at fault here and Ken has the right to procede how he sees fit. If Chris doesn't like that then he should kept better track of his finances ( i know crap happens trust me i am a single dad of two ). My advice to Chris is that you have done what you could to explain the situation and if Ken cant except that then just do what you can and make sure you make good on your promise.

If it was me, I would have just sent the animal back. If by chance he gets paid from paypall at a later date and does not return the funds then i would persue action against him. You at least owe him the benefit of a doubt that he would return the funds after what originally happened.

 

[HerpLuver]

I wanted to update everyone as to the current process of this.

As of last Saturday a check to paypal was made out and sent via USPS. It has not cleared my boss's bank yet. (Yes my boss sent the check for me with all the proper information, i verified that myself) I would say this will all be said and done by the 2nd week of August. A little long on the recovery for the parties involved, but recovery nonetheless.

I hope everyone here can see that, yes i made some mistakes, But im not a bad guy/scammer/theif/fraud. I will work with postal money orders from now on until i can get all the rest of my finances situated and learn how to balance a damn check book.

For those of you that had faith in me, Thank you i appreciate it greatly. For those who doubted my credibility, all i have to say is wait for the check to clear and you will doubt me no more.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Good for you Chris!! Please keep us updated on the progress and maybe buy a quicken program for your finances LOL My husband would be lost with out his!!

 

[Jungle Gems]

Chris...

...glad to see you posted. I had this thread on my mind today and it looks like you were way ahead of me in keeping us up to date. Please do let us know when this has been resolved, as I'm sure the issue will be coming to a close soon.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[kenfosterpb]

For those that may still be interested, Today is August 2, 2005, nearly a month since Chris received my male pastel. It has been over three weeks since he posted and I assume sold my pastel. On the same day he said he had sent his boss' check to cover his debt I also sent paypal a check to cover the negative balance left in my paypal by Chris's money disappearimg. My check was cleared and paypal received their money back from me a few days later.

I can appreciate everyone's patience with Chris, however my website and kingsnake is my store. I know when I purchased from others on kingsnake and stores including yours John, I was expected to pay immediately. Never have I taken or received an animal without first paying. Chris has had many opportunities to email me, send a check directly to me or return my snake. Not once has he taken any of these reasonable actions. His only written communicatons has been with you on this site. You be the judge, does this really sound like he is trying to make things right? Perhaps Chris should tell us who he sold the snake to or if he did not collect the $750. he was asking on this very website and still has the animal perhaps he should just send my animal home. I will be happy to pay for return shipping as I did when I shipped it to him.

At the advice of many of you I withheld sending the requested documentation to his local law enforcement agency. Unfortunately for Chris his time has run out with me.
If he ever pays up I will be happy to relay that information to the proper authorities.
You all might be right, Chris might have good intentions and he may even do the right thing eventually. I just feel that if you can't afford to make a purchase then you probably should not.

 

[HerpLuver]

Ken.... I have called you multiple times and left messages since you apparently refuse to accept my phone call's. I called you twice the day you originally posted this, instead of giving me time to call you back. I have called you 2 or 3 times since then. I also emailed you twice on the 19th explaining to you what i was going to do about this. You then told me you would not be sending me anymore emails, and that it was the last contact you would make with me. That to me said you didnt want to hear from me so i decided then to post everything on the BOI so everyone else including yourself could see how i was handling this. Here's something to think about, IF you sent a check from the bank that you have connected to your paypal account. Then maybe thats why they accepted the check so fast. The check they received from my boss is in no way connected to MY paypal account. So it must be processed. I spoke to paypal earlier today and they said they received it but it has not entered the account yet. I cannot go to paypal's office and break out whips and DEMAND them to MOVE faster. I have taken the ONLY options paypal deemed i was able to, in order to fix this situation. I already said it was going to take up to 2 weeks.