Fred Albury... BUYER BEWARE!!! BAD GUY!!!

[WebSlave]

I will expect any one of the major parties in this issue to contact me when they want this thread reopened. DO NOT START ANOTHER THREAD ABOUT THIS.

 

[annmccabemiles]

Ok, my snake is here. I received the package at 10:05 this morning, Friday June 20. I was really excited and found the
snake to be just as I had expected. It is beautiful, a little thin
but very nice. Fred had explained that it would be a bit on the thin side.

My feeling of relief soon faded to suspicion as I did the quick
method (visual) of sexing and the snake appeared to be a
male - not the female I had purchased - but, I have one large female mexican black king that appears to be male, so I had hope that it was the female I had been waiting for. I probed the snake and my fears were confirmed, it is male.

I defended Fred and I feel so betrayed. If Fred was a beginner and I really thought he did not know how to sex a snake I would be much more understanding about this, but I feel that my intelligence and my good nature have both been insulted. I had
another snake that I had considered purchasing as a mate to a
beautiful male that I have, but when Fred answered my inquiry
regarding his ad and told me he still had the female I really wanted, you know his reputation as a respected herper and all I let the other go and went for his. I also realized after all this time it is likely too late to breed this year anyway, so I thought - let's make the best of the situation and spend the rest of this year feeding heavily and prepare her for next year's breeding season. Now, that is obviously not going to happen with this snake.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! My time is just as valuable as Fred's and I
don't think his losing some of his loved snakes out of necessity makes up for this blatant irresponsible handling of this situation.
He could have been straight with me and let me know that all he
had to offer was this male and I could take it or wait until he could
make good on this deal. I wonder if he will be selling striped CA kings this year? Does he have eggs in the incubator from the 0.1
CA King I paid for several months ago? Is she gravid or maybe double clutching?

When I requested a return of my money, the response I got was that he still had the 0.1 I purchased and he would send her ASAP.
Oh hell, I'll post the darn thing:

----- Original Message -----
From: Ann McCabeMiles
To: Fred Albury
Sent: 6/9/2003 3:31:29 PM
Subject: 0.1 CA King



Hi Fred,

I realize that you are having a hard time, but I am going to have to ask you to return my
money. Please know that I understand hard times, we just pulled through some here; however, I am afraid that time has run out on this transaction.

This was difficult to write, I hope you understand my post ion.

Good luck,

Ann




Ann McCabeMiles


> [Original Message]
> From: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 6/9/2003 4:45:59 PM
> Subject: Re: 0.1 CA King
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ann McCabeMiles" <[email protected]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: "Fred Albury" <[email protected]>
> >Subject: 0.1 CA King
> >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:31:28 -0400
> >
> Ann,
>
> Return your money? you sent me money ofr a cal kingsnake. I have the same
> snake here and will ship it out to you shortly. If the snake had been in ill
> health i would have returned your money immediately or more than likely not
> posted it at all. I am waiting for payment on another pair of snakes, when I
> receive that I will ship your snake out with them at the same time.
>
> thank you,
>
> Fred Albury



In rereading this I see how he left out the part about the snake being female but in the subject line you can see the 0.1 and we all know what that means. I do have all of the emails from the very beginning and there was no doubt about the sex of this snake.

Yup, I am pissed now.

Fred IMHO you have committed business suicide. It was your choice and sadly you will suffer the consequences.

'nuff?

Ann McCabe Miles

PS I hope Landon's post will be more positive than mine.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Ann,

I am truly sorry to hear about this for several reasons. I hate that you did not get what you paid for, and all that goes with that. I also hate that Fred has further damaged himself by this. I don't even want to think about the posts that will undoubtedly appear shortly from Fred's stalkers! However, you have an absolutely legitimate gripe, and it needs to be addressed immediately!

Fred, you need to either replace this snake completely at your cost (and I mean you pay the shipping both ways to get your mix-up back AND send her the right animal), or fully refund her money (and I would let her keep that little male for her troubles, if it were me, by the way) immediately . . . as in, TODAY!

I understand that sexing mistakes happen, even with the big breeders, but to have something like this happen when you are trying to fix a deal that was already terribly messed up by you, you need to take drastic steps to show what you're made of here, Fred. I have found you to be willing to try to do the right thing in my limited communication with you, and your previous reputation got you the benefit of the doubt with several people. However, that will ONLY last a VERY short time if you mess this lady around. She has been MORE than patient with you, but now she needs her animal or her money NOW!

Please take care of this, so your hard earned reputation from the immediate past is not wasted away to nothing!!!

 

[Anaconda Al]

Ann....................................................

I'm sorry this had to end in disappointment for you. You sound like a very nice person. Unfortunately, Fred thought the same thing about you and took advantage. Landon also sounds like a very nice person and, knowing Fred, I believe that Landon has been taken advantage of for the same reason.

Albert Applebaum

 

[Dennis Gulla]

Boy Oh Boy

I have never done business with Fred Albury, nor communicated with via e-mail. I have read and participated in many of Fred's posts on kingsnake Boa forum a couple of years back. I have seen many of Fred's ads on kingsnake classifieds and thought about purchasing from him on a couple of occasions.

After reading this entire thread, I think we can all agree that Fred really messed up with Ann and Landon. I really felt that this was uncharacteristic of Fred after everything he has preached on these forums. I was hoping (for Fred's sake) for this situation to be rectified as soon as possible.

Fred, I have no idea what problems you have been facing, but your reputation is falling faster then a free falling sky diver! You really need to fix this deal! As Darin suggested, I would send this lady her money back as soon as possible and tell her to keep the snake you just sent her.

I really thought Fred was a good guy, but my mind is changing rapidly! Perhaps after you correct these deals, you should consider taking a hiatus until you can get your priorities straitened out.

 

[sir-pent]

Deal Complete!

It's all done.

I received the shipment today and everything seems fine.

I'm sorry Ann that you did not have the same luck I had, hope you can get it resolved..

Well, that's it for me. I'm done buying snakes online.


Landon

 

[BrianB]

Re: Deal Complete!

It's all done.

Well, that's it for me. I'm done buying snakes online.

Landon

I'd like to point out that while Fred seems to be having difficulties in meeting his commitments, and isn't living up to his past reputation, things generally go better when buying online. So, don't get discouraged.

I've bought all but one of my herps online, and I've been completely satisfied every time. In this case, I don't really think the trouble was foreseeable, but by and large, dealers who are well-established and have good references are safe to buy from. There's still a risk, but I don't feel it's any worse than buying in person. The only benefit to buying in person is if the dealer/breeder is local, as it makes taking legal action to resolve problems a bit easier. It doesn't really reduce the chances of having problems a great deal.

Anyway, glad you got your snake. Good luck.

Ann, sorry to hear about your mix up. I hope it gets straightened out. Good luck to you, too.

And, as long as I'm talking in a thread about Fred, although I don't think I've ever spoken to him before, I'll offer this: It seems like life is a big mess right now, and I hope things get better, Fred. Make your best effort to do the right thing with Ann, whatever that effort is, and don't harm your reputation any further. I've been down before, and I know it sucks, but one thing you can hold on to is your reputation, and refusing to refund someone's money when you haven't delivered product just isn't the way to do that. Even if you have spent the money, you should attempt a compromise, or offer to send a bit at a time. Anyway, I was really sorry to see this thread, and hope all is well with you.

 

[BrianB]

I should clarify that the bit about refunding the money wasn't a suggested resolution to Ann's problem, but that I was thinking that the main problem I had with both of these deals is that when a refund was requested, Fred refused to give it. That's just not acceptable, IMO, and a different approach could have been taken other than flat refusal.

 

[WebSlave]

Well, that's it for me. I'm done buying snakes online.


Landon

And that reflects why I go through all of the headaches I do in order to keep the BOI alive. To try to keep exactly this sort of thing from happening.

 

[Chris Kennard]

Landon,
I can't say I blame you for having a bad taste in your mouth about buying on line but in the future the BOI could protect you from this sort of thing happening to you again should you choose to buy on-line. In any case, congrats and may your new snakes be healthy and feeding and everything you expected. Good luck!


Ann,
What can I say? You've been a saint throughout this mess. Take care.



Chris Kennard

 

[Anaconda Al]

Now that all is said and done..............

hopefully, potential buyers will not confuse Fred Albury with a "Good Guy" as far as his trustworthiness regarding internet reptile sales go. It's a shame that Ann and Landon didn't have the benefit of this thread BEFORE they dealt with Fred. Unfortunately, nice people are usually targeted by "Bad Guys" that take advantage of a perceived "Good Guy" reputation. In landon's case, the Bad Guy simply returned stolen property, only because he was subjected to a lot of heat. In Ann's case, Fred miscalculated by thinking that Ann's obvious good nature would prevent her from "blowing the whistle" in this forum when she realized her snake was a male. The reputation of actual "Good Guys" would seriously be diluted if Fred somehow maintains the status and reputation of a "Good Guy" after the scams you have just witnessed. In closing, I quote Landon: "BUYER BEWARE OF FRED ALBURY!!! BAD GUY"!!!"

Albert Applebaum

PS: Darin, would you buy a snake from Fred now?

 

[John Skipper]

Fred Albury... Another very bad experience

I have refrained from going public with this up until now so as not to ruin Mr. Albury’s reputation over
what I thought was an isolated incident. After reading the previous posts about negative experiences
with Mr. Albury and those of the people who are still defending him I feel that it has become important to
go public with my story as well with the hope that it will prevent others from being hurt.
In July 2002 Fred Albury was advertising a pair of Max Pink Argentine boas for sale. My wife really liked
them and urged me to get them even though we did not really have the extra money. I contacted Mr.
Albury and inquired about the animals. After getting more information on the snakes I made the decision
to purchase the pair of Argentines. Fred wanted his money in advance, paid in full with a Postal money
order and he wanted it sent out next day via FedEx which came to a total of $598.65. I agreed to this but
I informed Fred that we were going to be leaving on vacation the next day and asked if he would mind
holding the animals for shipment until we returned. He agreed and said it was no problem and to contact
him upon our arrival home. I sent the postal money order that day and after contacting Fred to confirm
that he received it we went on vacation.
After returning from vacation, I tried several times to contact Fred by both telephone and email. In mid
August I was able to get in touch with him, at which time, he informed me that one of the snakes had
been regurgitating. He gave me the option of shipping the snakes as planned or refunding my money. I
told him that I appreciate his honesty but was no longer interested in the Argentines after hearing this
and wanted a refund. He told me that he had spent the money and it would take several weeks but I
would get my refund. I asked if he had any idea how long it would take and he said 3 or 4 weeks.
I tried to contact Fred after 4 weeks and initially he did not return my calls or email. When I finally did
get in touch with him he informed me that he still did not have the money and that 2 or 3 months would
have been a more realistic time frame for my refund. I was agreeable to this arrangement because I felt I
really had no other choice and he still seemed sincere in wanting to correct the situation.
After 3 months, I again contacted Fred at which time he became somewhat hostile on the telephone and
basically told me he did not have the money, did not care about his reputation, was sick of the whole
herp industry, and was sick of dealing with people including me. After he calmed down, he informed me
that he still had the Argentines and that they were both doing well. He also told me that the possibility of
ever seeing my refund was highly unlikely and gave me the choice to accept the animals. I figured
receiving the potentially sick Argentines that would have to be quarantined for a very long period of time
and vet checked at my expense was better than nothing. He agreed to send the snakes but was still
obviously having financial trouble and did not have any idea when he would be able to ship. At this
point, I even went so far as to offer to pay the shipping a second time just to assure I would get the
animals knowing that in the mean time Fred had continued to post and sell animals including a pair of
Albino boas. I had not reported my experience to anyone because I wanted to believe that Fred would
eventually return my money.
Now, we are approaching July 2003. I have emailed Fred numerous times and requested that he
contact me about arranging a shipping date. Fred has not returned my email or phone calls and I have
not heard a word from him since March 25, 2003.
I have been more than reasonable and patient and have tried to be understanding of Fred’s numerous
problems. At this point, I feel that I have given Fred every opportunity to resolve this situation to no avail.
I don’t know if he sold the animals to someone else, if they died, if they are still sick or what happened.
Why wouldn’t he send them when I was willing to go so far as to pay for the shipping all over again? All
he had to do was to put them in a box and send them on there way. At this point, I no longer feel
comfortable accepting the animals from Fred even if he still does have them. After everything that has
happened I don’t trust him and I just want him to do the right thing and return my money.
The email thread between Fred and myself is quite extensive and gets extremely confusing. At one point
Fred sent me an email intended for someone else that had to do with him sending them an egg bound
pine snake. I would be more than happy to post these threads if anyone needs further evidence but I
don’t think they will all fit on one page. All of this information has already been turned over to the
authorities.
Sincerely,
John Skipper

 

[Greg Riso]

How Many Others..

are there lurking out there who have been wronged and have not yet come forward? The whole time Fred had his "747" posted I was tempted to buy it. The price was the only thing that kept me away. I haven't seen that animal posted but now I'm glad I didn't make an offer on it. I thought Fred was a good guy but after reading this maybe hard times have changed his ways. I know he stated he was laid off so I could understand getting caught up in the debt cycle. That doesn't make excuses for taking other peoples money though. After all this was the man that had a no mites and 100% guaranteed IBD free collection right? It seems just getting what you paid for would be a better guarantee.

 

[Anaconda Al]

John please don't hesitate to post those emails.....

First of all, the naysayers here that would rather view Fred as the victim (and you the villian) will want you to prove your claim (although the'd rather throw your case out for lack of evidence, even though your emails probably will have no impact on them anyway). Second, you can further eliminate any further doubt a potential might have about Fred's creepy little habit of stealing other people's money. Finally, you owe it to yourself to vent a little bit.

Albert Applebaum

PS Fred, when are we going to hear your two cents?

 

[Anaconda Al]

correction

potential BUYER

Albert Applebaum

 

[Anaconda Al]

I'd like to point out how....................

Fred's supposed "hard times and supposed "personal tragedy" had nothing to do with John Skipper's nightmare or the first five or so months of Landon's nightmare. It's time to realize that Fred's claims of self-pity are simply one more deceptive tactic in the con man's bag of tricks.

Albert Applebaum

 

[Stardust]

John,
I think you should post all the emails. The more that is said about this guy and his frame of mind and his dealings the better.
For what he has already done I would say he is a bad guy and your post just adds to that if anyone thinks about buying from him. Thanks for coming forward and posting.

 

[NEWReptiles]

Mr. Albury and those of the people who are still defending him

Who is defending him?

 

[Ken Harbart]

First of all, the naysayers here that would rather view Fred as the victim (and you the villian) will want you to prove your claim (although the'd rather throw your case out for lack of evidence, even though your emails probably will have no impact on them anyway).

Al, your disregard for other members and your diregard for the rules of this site are getting rather tiresome. All things considered, you've been given more than enough leeway. However, since you seem to not take the multiple warnings you've been given seriously, you essentially made this decision for me.

Bye Al.

 

[Chris Kennard]

While I admit I haven't been the friendliest poster here, at least I never resorted to name-calling. Gila, you can call me a "Remora", Seamus, you can call me a "dumbass", Darin, you can call me "stalker", and Fred can call me "troll" as he has so many times in the past. But one thing you CANNOT call me is a liar or a cheat. I see no reason for me to go on posting on this matter or trying to defend myself any longer as it is a futile endeavour anyway. I personally hold no grudges for anyone here. Next time you guys compete to be the guy who shot Billy the Kid, make sure he is in fact the bad guy.

To Ann and John, I hope this doesn't affect the way you view breeders in general. Sorry for your troubles.


So long then.

Chris Kennard