Stardust
human
Hey Chris, I agree with you, you were right on about him, a ferret in your own right, so to speak. Hate to see you get banned but, alas, this is not my site.
bye
bye
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In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
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Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
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Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Fred Albury... BUYER BEWARE!!! BAD GUY!!!
- Thread starter sir-pent
- Start date
Chris Kennard
Well-known member
Thank you Rozann.
Chris Kennard
Chris Kennard
Darin Chappell
Senior Hillbilly Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2002
- Messages
- 1,838
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 60
- Location
- Rogersville, MO (Ozark Mts.)
Well, it seems that Fred has determined that he has done all that he is willing to do. That's really too bad. Not only has he messed over his once good reputation, but he has also left at least one (possibly more) customers dangling without what they had paid for.
Fred wrote to me an gave me a big sob story about people not wanting to accept that he made an honest mistake about the sex of that animal. That's not true. I'm willing to accept that it may have been an accident, but that does not detract from Fred's responsibility to make that accident right!
Fred, if you have no intention of making things right with Ann (and ANY others you owe), at least have the decency to email them to say so. That way, they won't be wondering what you're going to do for/to them. They'll simply know that you count your reputation as such an unworthy thing as to be willing to throw it away for a few bucks.
I was willing to let Fred make this right before I decided for myself that he was indeed a bad guy, because he seemed to be honestly repentent for his failures. His repentence has now waned into non-existence, so I'm done with giving him any benefit of any type. It's sad. I hate to see any good guy go bad, but it seems that this is what we have here. Fred is a "Bad Guy" and cannot be trusted to stand behind his animals.
Oh, and Chris, even bad guys can have stalkers. Your attacks did nothing but detract from the fact that a deal had gone bad and was trying to be made right. What you'll have to ask yourself now is whether you were trying to protect the innocent or persecute Fred. I can't say one way or the other; it's just not my place. I don't think you're a liar OR a cheat. Nevertheless, your venomous responses to those who questioned your motives said volumes about you.
Fred wrote to me an gave me a big sob story about people not wanting to accept that he made an honest mistake about the sex of that animal. That's not true. I'm willing to accept that it may have been an accident, but that does not detract from Fred's responsibility to make that accident right!
Fred, if you have no intention of making things right with Ann (and ANY others you owe), at least have the decency to email them to say so. That way, they won't be wondering what you're going to do for/to them. They'll simply know that you count your reputation as such an unworthy thing as to be willing to throw it away for a few bucks.
I was willing to let Fred make this right before I decided for myself that he was indeed a bad guy, because he seemed to be honestly repentent for his failures. His repentence has now waned into non-existence, so I'm done with giving him any benefit of any type. It's sad. I hate to see any good guy go bad, but it seems that this is what we have here. Fred is a "Bad Guy" and cannot be trusted to stand behind his animals.
Oh, and Chris, even bad guys can have stalkers. Your attacks did nothing but detract from the fact that a deal had gone bad and was trying to be made right. What you'll have to ask yourself now is whether you were trying to protect the innocent or persecute Fred. I can't say one way or the other; it's just not my place. I don't think you're a liar OR a cheat. Nevertheless, your venomous responses to those who questioned your motives said volumes about you.
Wilomn
New member
Well said, Darin.
Wes Pollock
Wes Pollock
Classic Dum's
Twisted Sister
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2002
- Messages
- 791
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- 7
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- Age
- 50
- Location
- york, pa land of the free!
Ann I am sure you already know this and dont need me to remind ya but I will anyway. But dont for any reason send him that animal back till he makes right on his end. I can just see him saying "send me that snake back and Ill send ya the female, I just mixed up and grabbed the wrong one". Atleast now ya got something, its not what ya wanted but its better then nothing. So make him finish his end, pay you for shipping, to have the animals sent back then send it back.
Hey Fred rember me? Ive thought you were a cheat who prayed on people with that pity me act long before Chris came along. So for Ann, John and anyone else that you owe money too's sake I hope you take this as motivation to do right. Because all you are doing now is proving me and what I have said about you in the past to be 100% correct. So live up to those religous morals you always used to preach to everyone and do right. Now! Not a year down the road. Take this as motivation and get it over with, prove me wrong dude, I honestly hope you do.
Hey John can we see those emails? I am not worried about the rest because I know who you are. You got no need to prove anything to me because I know what you have said is 100% on the money. However the one I would like to see is about the egg bound pine. Yours are puking, Landons arent feeding, he cant ship Anns for bla bla bla and on goes the excuses. I wonder who that email about the egg bound pine was directed at and if they ever got it or are in the same boat as you guys/gals.
Hey Fred rember me? Ive thought you were a cheat who prayed on people with that pity me act long before Chris came along. So for Ann, John and anyone else that you owe money too's sake I hope you take this as motivation to do right. Because all you are doing now is proving me and what I have said about you in the past to be 100% correct. So live up to those religous morals you always used to preach to everyone and do right. Now! Not a year down the road. Take this as motivation and get it over with, prove me wrong dude, I honestly hope you do.
Hey John can we see those emails? I am not worried about the rest because I know who you are. You got no need to prove anything to me because I know what you have said is 100% on the money. However the one I would like to see is about the egg bound pine. Yours are puking, Landons arent feeding, he cant ship Anns for bla bla bla and on goes the excuses. I wonder who that email about the egg bound pine was directed at and if they ever got it or are in the same boat as you guys/gals.
John Skipper
New member
Email records from my experience with Fred Albury
Below are my email communications with Fred Albury.
Sincerely,
John Skipper
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: BDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMY
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Max Pink Argentines
Hi Fred,
I am interested in the pair of Argentines that you are offering on k_________.com this weekend for
$520, if someone has not already purchased them.
Thanks and best regards,
John Skipper
Jogn,
No one has yet purchased this pair, though i have had a lot of interst in them. they are from
Ancient Reprodcution Bloodlines
They are NOT siblings and the parents are outstanding. I bought them for myself, but I bought a
lof of snakes and
have to let go of a few tomake it more manageable. This pair eats small mice every 7 days and
are growing rapidly.
The price is $520 for the pair, which is LESS than i paid for them. If you are serious about
buying this pair
of snakes,i will require a POSTAL money order, not a bank moeny order, but apostal money
order as payment in
full for cost of snakes plus shipping. Shipping cost vary according to where you oive in the U.S.
Some orders have
to have cold packs in them because of extreme heat(Texas example) Shipping will be another
$70. For a total of $ $590.00.
If shiping costs fall under the projected amount i will refund the diffrence to you. I require that
this be sent out no later than Monday, to arrive
here on Tuesday,as the ad says.This would mean that it the payment is sent overnight express via
Fed or UPS to insure it gets here by
Tuesday. If payment doesnt arrive by then, I would take the hold off of this pair of snakes and
offer them up for sale again, at the
FORMER priceand not for $520,00 In short, if you get me the money for this pair by Tuesday
a.m., then I willsel them to you
for $5200/pair. And we can discuss best shipping day for us both at that time. This is a truly
outstanding pair of boas and nicer
thanany argies I have ever seen. I breed Argentines by the way, black and white ones, but hti pair
blow the doots off of them
Please contact me today about this, and I can send you out my address and info for where to
sendf the postal money order to.
Thanks
Fred Albury
(Aztec Reptiles)
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: XOEAIJJPHSCR
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Re: Max Pink Argentines
Hi Fred,
Thanks for your prompt reply. Yes, we would like to purchase the pair of Argentines. We can
get a postal money order for $590.00 in the AM and have it sent to you. We will be leaving to
go on vacation on Wed July 31st and returning on Wed Aug.7th. Does that present a problem
for you with shipping? If so, just let us know.
Best regards,
Laurie and John Skipper
John,
I dont mind takeing care of them for an extra week and I will send them to you once you get
back from your vacation.
Please include the address where you want them sent also, I will contact you PRIOR to shipping
them. These are
truly awesome Argentines and you wont be dissapointed with them. Please make sure it is a
postal money order
and send it out next day for delivery to my house by no later than 11:00 a.m. on Tuesday.
My address is listed below. Thanks for your business and your interest.
Sincerely,
Fred Albury
(Aztec Reptiles)
Wrom: TNHGSWZIDREX
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Re: Max Pink Argentines
Hi Fred,
Your postal money order for $590 was sent out this AM via FedEx and will arrive by 10:30am
on Tue.
Regards,
John
Excellent, Will contact you via email when it gets here. Your going to like this pair of snakes.
Fred
John,
Just wanted you to know that the money order arrived at 8:44a.m. this morning.
Will be in contact with regarding shipping after your vacation,. Thank you for
you business.
Fred Albury
(Aztec Reptiles)
Hi Fred,
I'm glad that the payment arrangements went well.
Could you get some information together regarding the snakes, prior to shipping, if possible?
Naturally, I would like to have any data records you have kept on the animals while they have
been in your collection. I would also like to have the sire and dam identification numbers for
both of the animals parents from Ancient Reproductions and any other type of genealogy records
you may have access to.
Any and all information that you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your
time.
Best regards,
John
John,
I dont have the sire and Dam id numbers available, nor any information on the parents. I used to
, but a virus,Win 32Klez? ran through my harddrive and trashed all my files and memory. I had
to buy a new hard drive. So,I lost it all. additonally,Bob from ancient has taken his website off of
Eboard(Where it was hosted) and cant be reached for comment because I dont have a contact
number(Again eaten by virus)
That virus cost me untold amounts of sales, personal contacts, family contacts and time. I will
try to provide you with what I can, but the records on the parents just arent forthcomeing.
Fred
Fred,
We are back from vacation. Let me know how you plan to ship the animals and a date that is
good for you and I will let you know if it works for me.
Regards,
John
Fred,
Any day next week for shipping the animals would be good for me except for Tuesday the 13th. Let me know what works for you.
Regards,
John
www.jsreptiles.com ----- Original Message -----
Wrom: CAXZOWCONEUQ
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:55 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Argentines
Hey Fred,
Did you forget something?
John
John,
I apologize at the lack of communication on my part dureing the last week. I have three shipments that were supposed to go out , but had
to be delayed and put off, yours being one of them. I have finals this last week and they pretty much superseded anything else, even
eating at times. All consumeing, that about sums it up. I am going to ship this week.
I got this pair of snakes from Bob Guirerre at Ancient Reproductions. About 2 weeks ago I fed them their last meal prior to shipping
them to you. I usually like to have them completely cleaned out when I ship them. The male regurged his meal. The female had no problems
digesting hers whatsoever. It didnt conecern me much, primarily because neither of these snakes EVER has shown and degree
of problem in that area, and the temps here fluctuated from high spikes to low, which can be a root cause of it.
I waited a week and fed the male again , and the female. Again, after 2 dfays the male threw up his prey, the female didnt.
I wanted to tell you about this up front, that if you still wanted them I would send them to you, if you wanted me to watch them for several
more weeks to see if this pattern ends and is just temp induced, then I could do that, or if you wanted a refund, I would work
on that. One week ago I intended to notify you about this problem. But the idiotic school final schedule kept me off the computer,
both on the forums, the classifieds and answering emails. NONE of my other snakes exhibited any syptoms or regurged at all
This was an unexpected and totally suprising thing to happen, I have had VERY few snakes that had this type of problem,
primarily because i dont constantly bring animals in and out and maintain quarantine on them when they do come in.
Please email me back and let me know what you would like to do in this matter. Again, i am truly sorry for not getting back
with you about this and the delayed shipment earlier.
Fred
Hi Fred,
I appreciate your honesty in this matter. I was beginning to get concerned about not hearing from you. Unfortunately, after being informed of this, I must decline on purchasing these animals.
I have been keeping boas since grade school, I am now 41, and I have only ever had one boa regurgitate. I took the animal to the vet and had labs run. They came back positive for some type of parasite, I do not remember what it was but presumably, it came from a frozen feeder rat. (freezing did not kill the parasite) I started the animal on flagyl as instructed by my vet, after several weeks of treatment the labs were repeated and came back negative for the parasite. The snake however, continued to regurgitate even after giving it a months rest and feeding it a very small rat. After several hundred dollars and a lot of work and heartache the snake died. I had a necropsy done but nothing conclusive was found.
There are, as you know, many factors that can cause regurgitation in snakes but with boas the outcome is not always good.
I am truly sorry about this happening to your animal and I am hoping for a positive outcome. Regrettably, in light of my past experience, I am definitely going to have to turn down these animals after learning about this.
When you are able, I would appreciate a refund. I hope to hear from you soon.
Best Regards,
John
www.jsreptiles.com
John,
I sent the female pinesnake out today. She will arrive by 3:00 tomorrow at your door via fed ex. Tracking number is:
836553354774. The snake was shipped in a large styro container, and because of your proximity and location , they made a HUGE
deal over getting it to you and also charged an insane amount. After pulling the snake out and handleing it,I noticed that she seems
to have retained one of her eggs from this years breding. She eats, defecates and is fine, but I saw the egg visibly today.
This turn of events doesnt make me at all happy, as I was unaware of it. She produced 10 good eggs this year.
Because of this, I sent you another snake along with it, to make u[p for the fact that this snake was in this condition.
I sent you one of my locale Minnesota Bullsnake females(I had 2) . She is locale specific. I hope this in some way offsets the
you may have with the pinenskae. she looks great and eats, but I found the egg in her today, haveing not handled her since she laid because
of school work and finals. Please let me know when they arrive. I am sorry for the inconvenince and how long it took me
to get this snake to you.
Fred
Hi Fred,
I wanted to be sure to return this to you ASAP so you can notify the appropriate person of their shipment.
The attached email titled Re:Argentines contains information concerning shipment of pinesnakes and must have been intended for another recipient.
I hope you received my email earlier today concerning the Argentines. If not, please let me know and I will resend.
Regards,
John Skipper
Fred,
I need to contact you as soon as possible concerning this matter. Give me your phone number and I will call you, or you can call me, my cell phone number is 410-913-3921 (I can be reached any time)
Fred,
Something is not adding up here. I think your emails are still crossed.
I was purchasing the pair of Argentine boas, you emailed me yesterday to tell me about the male Argentine regurgitating. I replied to that email yesterday afternoon. Yesterday evening I received an email from you regarding the purchase and shipment of a female pinesnake it was attached to an old email that I had sent to you about shipping of the Argentines and the subject line for the email was "Shipping Argentines." I suspected that I was not the intended recipient of this mail so I sent the message back to you with the subject line "Important! Email correction please read" and a brief note. This morning I received another copy of your same email pertaining to the shipping of the female pinesnake with the subject line "John this letter never made it to you, email mix up"
All of the threads that I am referring to are still attached to this email if you want to read down the page to try to figure it out.
I have no idea if the person who is buying the pinesnake ever got any of your messages.
Also, please let me know if you received my message to you yesterday regarding the Argentines.
I will be more than happy to contact you by telephone to discuss this if you would send me your number.
If you would prefer to contact me, my number is (410) 913-3921
Thanks,
John Skipper
Fred,
It has been about a month since our last communication, I believe you are sincere about returning my money but I wanted to know how it was coming along.
Regards,
John
www.jsreptiles.com
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: ZAAFXISHJEXX
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:07 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Argentine Refund
Fred,
I emailed you several days ago and did not get a reply. I would appreciate a response ASAP in regards to the status of my refund for the Argentine boas.
Regards,
John Skipper
Wrom: IMQZUIVOTQNQ
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:20 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Re: Argentine Refund
How you making out FredWrom: EMSFDULHPQQW
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:07 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Argentine Refund
Fred,
I emailed you several days ago and did not get a reply. I would appreciate a response ASAP in regards to the status of my refund for the Argentine boas.
Regards,
John Skipper
John,
I am sorry for the lag time between your letter and this response. I have been unable toraise the funds necessary
to provide you with a full refund at this time. However, I have a show comeing up in 2 weeks and have the potential of makeing
some or all of that money there. I may have to pay you in increments, not because I want to, but simply because I
do not have it all at one time. In retrospect, the one month deadline I set to repay your purchase price wasnt
realistic, and I should have set it at 3 or 4 months, neither number of which makes me happy and I imagine that
it doesnt do much for you either. I am sorry about this whole thing, and will try my best to resolve this matter in as
expedient a time period as I possibly can.
thank you,
Fred
How you making out Fred?
John,
Not to good, sales have been behond slow despite me dropping my prices and attending 3 shows in 4 months.
And, additionally, at the last show I attended with Rick and Becky from Renegade Reptiles, I parked my car
on the street at a meter while loading THEM into the show. I had paid the meter, but got TOWED.
The other vendors raised the money for the tow and I had to pay them back. That money was cash I was going to use
to help pay back my debts, namely you. Total cost of Tow: $325.00 I was so pissed off. That is about how it has been.
Fred
Wrom: OYIYZUNNYCGPK
To: Fred Albury
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: Argentine Refund
Fred,
I am emailing you in regards to the status of my refund. When this incident arose 3 months ago you informed me that I would be refunded the $590.00 in 1 month that you owed me for the Argentine boas I never received and did not want after you informed me that the one had been regurgitating. At the end of one month you then inform me that 3-4 months would have been more realistic in terms of me receiving my money. I emailed you 2 weeks ago and you said it wasn't going good. It is now the beginning of November and the end of 3 months and I haven't heard anything from you. I am not going to get into a long drawn out discussion about business practices or ethics and what is right and wrong, what you did to me I have never had happen to me before in the 30 years I have been in this hobby and I would never think of doing it to anyone else. You know and I know what you did was wrong, one of the first rules in this business is to never spend the money you receive for animals until your customer has received his or her animals and they are satisfied and the animals are healthy. I am usually pretty easy going and try to believe in people and that they have the best intentions and are honest. I don't know what is going on with you but at this point I really do not care. My daughter has health problems and I can't afford the doctor bills (they all want cash up front). You know the old saying - family comes first- and mine does come first. I have been wholesaling my animals out and doing whatever else I can in order to get my daughter the best care I can. So Fred to be short, simple and to the point I think you have been given plenty of time, I desperately need and want my money back and I really do not care what you are going to have to sell, beg, or borrow in order to get it back to me. I really do not want to go public with this and I do not want to hurt your reputation, but you spent my money that you shouldn't have and now 3 months have gone by and I need the $590.00 and I want it back.
Regards,
John
----- Original Message -----
Fred,
I have not heard anything from you in several months. I have been very patient and more than generous with the amount of time that has gone by waiting for my refund. At this time I have kept this totally private and have not discussed this situation with anyone else outside of my family, not wanting to hurt your name or reputation. I am giving you until the end of January 2003 (this will be giving you a total of 6 months to return the $590.00 you owe me) to come up with the money, if I do not receive it at that time I am turning you in to K__________, the F______ classified (board of inquire) and every place and every everyone else I can think of. You can send the payment of $590.00 (I want a postal money order) in full to PO BOX 650 White Marsh, Maryland 21162 This will be the last email you will receive from me if I do not receive my money in full by the end of January. If by February 1st I do not have my money look for your name and all of the events that have transpired on the F_____ classified, I also intend on posting this information on my website and updating it on a weekly basis on K_________ for those people who do not go to F_______ (board of inquire).
Regards,
John
I am sending this to you a second time to be sure there is no confusion as to what is going on
Fred,
I have not heard anything from you in several months. I have been very patient and more than generous with the amount of time that has gone by waiting for my refund. At this time I have kept this totally private and have not discussed this situation with anyone else outside of my family, not wanting to hurt your name or reputation. I am giving you until the end of January 2003 (this will be giving you a total of 6 months to return the $590.00 you owe me) to come up with the money, if I do not receive it at that time I am turning you in to K________, the F______ classified (board of inquire) and every place and every everyone else I can think of. You can send the payment of $590.00 (I want a postal money order) in full to PO BOX 650 White Marsh, Maryland 21162 This will be the last email you will receive from me if I do not receive my money in full by the end of January. If by February 1st I do not have my money look for your name and all of the events that have transpired on the F______ classified, I also intend on posting this information on my website and updating it on a weekly basis on K________ for those people who do not go to F_______ (board of inquire).
Regards,
John
Hi Fred,
Sorry my cell battery died last night, I am glad we got a chance to talk and I believe everything should be straightened out and clear at this point. If anything changes or you need to get me you can email me or call any time at 410-913-3921. The number I use for tracking with northwest here on the East Coast is 1-800-692-2746 If that number is good on the West Coast they can probably answer your questions or at least give you a number of someone who can as far as shipping live non venomous snakes and not being a known shipper. I will keep an eye on the weather here and if it looks like it will be acceptable for shipping at any time I will contact you to see if we can pick a day that will work for both of us, if you are able to send the money before this happens I would prefer this as I am still a little uncomfortable with the snakes. Good luck with everything.
Regards,
John
From: John Skipper <[email protected]>
>To: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
>Subject: everything ok?
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:48:59 -0500
>
>Hi Fred,
>I tried calling you several times and can't get you. I'm not calling to
>harass you or start any ####. I believed we had everything straight, I
>have been trying to contact you about the shipping in case we get a window
>to ship the animals. Please get back to me to let me know everything is
>still cool.
>John
John,
Everything is still cool. I apologize that I havent communicated with you as
clearly as I would have liked to, but have been looking for work and dealing
with the affects of the oncomeing war on my family.
It has been cold and rainy out here, and because of that I havent looked
into the shipping. I will make an attempt to do so next week, at least to
get some information on the same, so that it can be used when temps here and
there look favorable. Didnt get the phone calls, but thats no bigee. Will
keep in contact with you, didnt want you to worry.
Fred
From: John Skipper <[email protected]>
>To: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: everything ok?
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:43:02 -0500
>
>Hi Fred,
>Thank you for your prompt reply. It is none of my business but I assume
>from your email that you have relatives in the Service. I hope for the
>best
>for you and your family and if any of them are overseas that they return
>home safely. Good luck in your search for a job, I keep on hearing how
>good
>the economy is and how low the unemployment level is, but I don't see it
>were I am.
>
>John
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fred Albury" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 2:15 AM
>Subject: Re: everything ok?
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: John Skipper <[email protected]>
> > >To: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: everything ok?
> > >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:48:59 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi Fred,
> > >I tried calling you several times and can't get you. I'm not calling
>to
> > >harass you or start any ####. I believed we had everything straight, I
> > >have been trying to contact you about the shipping incase we get a
>window
> > >to ship the animals. Please get back to me to let me know everything
>is
> > >still cool.
> > >John
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Everything is still cool. I apologize that I havent communicated with
>you
>as
> > clearly as I would have liked to, but have been looking for work and
>dealing
> > with the affects of the oncomeing war on my family.
> > It has been cold and rainy out here, and because of that I havent
>looked
> > into the shipping. I will make an attempt to do so next week, at least
>to
> > get some information on the same, so that it can be used when temps here
>and
> > there look favorable. Didnt get the phone calls, but thats no bigee.
>Will
> > keep in contact with you, didnt want you to worry.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Message from johnS about
>http://forum.kingsnake.com/retic/messages/13108.html
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:52:13 -0600 (CST)
>
>Fred,
>I have been trying to get in touch with you. I thought we had everything
>straightned out. If there is a problem or something has come up please let
>me know and maybe we can work something out. You can email me or call
>410-529-1323
>John
>
>
>This message was sent by the user: johnS
>
>
John,
I apoligize for not contacting you before. I have been working 10 hour days
and frankly ANYTHING that isnt related to me getting another place to live,
my daughter, or my present bills has taken a BACK SEAT, as it rightly
should. It sems everyone wants personalized attention from me while I am in
the midst of my crisis. I'm sorry for them but they arent going to get it.
In your case, you and I talked, but my long distance got cut and I got to
busy to even send emails out. I think the most I have been on line in the
last 2 weeks is to tell a guy on the retic forum I was sorry his retic died.
Thats it...
You know its funny....I dont miss it a bit. From the forum trolls to
customers bitching about snaks not feding cause they set them up wrong...it
is a very draining thing.
I saw your post on the Indigo forum.As you see the response YOU got was one
of negativity, which is what this whole thing has become to me. Dont get me
wrong,I still like the animals, but the people just plain suck.
My life is in flux COMPLETELY, I have to be out of here in less than 2 weeks
or I get an eviction notice, which menas my credit is shot and cant get
another place. My family lives on the EAST coast and I cant move there(kid).
So basically, I am sitting in the lions den. Just got hired on a job, which
was supposed to make pretty decent pay, but later found out just how
limiting the paycheck was and how all consuming and how many hours I was
having to work for the same check.
So, I am not blowing you off, but I am not in a position to afford to ship
your snakes right now, nor do I have the time off to do so. I am sorry that
you are having to go through this with me, you dont deserve this treatment
and it saddens me that I have been reduced to this. I dont really care
anymore about my"reputation" in this business, I am simply tired of it. But,
it still bothers me greatly. Its a matter of principle. I cant ship your
snakes right now, maybe after the smoke clears and I become established I
will be able to ship them or Refund your purchase price in full. But right
now things are way to hectic to undertake anything like that. I actually
have to sell snakes, hopefully locally, so that I can get another place. You
may see them online, but I have yet to respond to people asking about them.
THATs how busy I have been Again, sorry for the lack of clear communication.
Sincerely,
Fred
Hi Fred,
I hope things are getting better for you and if not I hope that they do in
the near future. The weather here is finally starting to come around and
should be good for shipping in a week or two. If you do not have the
funding to ship the animals let me know and we can probably work something
out. Get back to me when you can and let me know how your schedule is as
far as being able to ship and your preferred means of shipping and the cost.
Talk to you soon.
Take Care,
John
Fred,
How do you normally ship them? FedEx, UPS, or what? If I send you a money
order for the cost of shipping in full can you ship them? Please get back,
I told you I would work with you on this and I meant it.
John
Fred,
I couldn't be making this easier than I am, I told you I would send you
money to ship the snakes it's that simple over and done. If you have sold
the animals because you needed the money or something has happened to them,
please be honest with me and just tell me what is going on so that we can go
Hi Fred,
I emailed you a couple of days ago through k______'s classifieds about the Argentine boas. The weather here is good and obviously you are able to ship animals out now, so please get back to me so that we can arrange shipment ASAP. I told you that I will pay the shipping, all you have to do is box them up and send them on there way, UPS, FedEx, it doesn't matter. I think you'll agree that this has gone on long enough and I just want to be done with it.
Best Regards,
John
THIS WAS THE LAST EMAIL SENT TO FRED ON 4/21/2003
Below are my email communications with Fred Albury.
Sincerely,
John Skipper
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: BDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMY
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Max Pink Argentines
Hi Fred,
I am interested in the pair of Argentines that you are offering on k_________.com this weekend for
$520, if someone has not already purchased them.
Thanks and best regards,
John Skipper
Jogn,
No one has yet purchased this pair, though i have had a lot of interst in them. they are from
Ancient Reprodcution Bloodlines
They are NOT siblings and the parents are outstanding. I bought them for myself, but I bought a
lof of snakes and
have to let go of a few tomake it more manageable. This pair eats small mice every 7 days and
are growing rapidly.
The price is $520 for the pair, which is LESS than i paid for them. If you are serious about
buying this pair
of snakes,i will require a POSTAL money order, not a bank moeny order, but apostal money
order as payment in
full for cost of snakes plus shipping. Shipping cost vary according to where you oive in the U.S.
Some orders have
to have cold packs in them because of extreme heat(Texas example) Shipping will be another
$70. For a total of $ $590.00.
If shiping costs fall under the projected amount i will refund the diffrence to you. I require that
this be sent out no later than Monday, to arrive
here on Tuesday,as the ad says.This would mean that it the payment is sent overnight express via
Fed or UPS to insure it gets here by
Tuesday. If payment doesnt arrive by then, I would take the hold off of this pair of snakes and
offer them up for sale again, at the
FORMER priceand not for $520,00 In short, if you get me the money for this pair by Tuesday
a.m., then I willsel them to you
for $5200/pair. And we can discuss best shipping day for us both at that time. This is a truly
outstanding pair of boas and nicer
thanany argies I have ever seen. I breed Argentines by the way, black and white ones, but hti pair
blow the doots off of them
Please contact me today about this, and I can send you out my address and info for where to
sendf the postal money order to.
Thanks
Fred Albury
(Aztec Reptiles)
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: XOEAIJJPHSCR
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 12:59 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Re: Max Pink Argentines
Hi Fred,
Thanks for your prompt reply. Yes, we would like to purchase the pair of Argentines. We can
get a postal money order for $590.00 in the AM and have it sent to you. We will be leaving to
go on vacation on Wed July 31st and returning on Wed Aug.7th. Does that present a problem
for you with shipping? If so, just let us know.
Best regards,
Laurie and John Skipper
John,
I dont mind takeing care of them for an extra week and I will send them to you once you get
back from your vacation.
Please include the address where you want them sent also, I will contact you PRIOR to shipping
them. These are
truly awesome Argentines and you wont be dissapointed with them. Please make sure it is a
postal money order
and send it out next day for delivery to my house by no later than 11:00 a.m. on Tuesday.
My address is listed below. Thanks for your business and your interest.
Sincerely,
Fred Albury
(Aztec Reptiles)
Wrom: TNHGSWZIDREX
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Re: Max Pink Argentines
Hi Fred,
Your postal money order for $590 was sent out this AM via FedEx and will arrive by 10:30am
on Tue.
Regards,
John
Excellent, Will contact you via email when it gets here. Your going to like this pair of snakes.
Fred
John,
Just wanted you to know that the money order arrived at 8:44a.m. this morning.
Will be in contact with regarding shipping after your vacation,. Thank you for
you business.
Fred Albury
(Aztec Reptiles)
Hi Fred,
I'm glad that the payment arrangements went well.
Could you get some information together regarding the snakes, prior to shipping, if possible?
Naturally, I would like to have any data records you have kept on the animals while they have
been in your collection. I would also like to have the sire and dam identification numbers for
both of the animals parents from Ancient Reproductions and any other type of genealogy records
you may have access to.
Any and all information that you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your
time.
Best regards,
John
John,
I dont have the sire and Dam id numbers available, nor any information on the parents. I used to
, but a virus,Win 32Klez? ran through my harddrive and trashed all my files and memory. I had
to buy a new hard drive. So,I lost it all. additonally,Bob from ancient has taken his website off of
Eboard(Where it was hosted) and cant be reached for comment because I dont have a contact
number(Again eaten by virus)
That virus cost me untold amounts of sales, personal contacts, family contacts and time. I will
try to provide you with what I can, but the records on the parents just arent forthcomeing.
Fred
Fred,
We are back from vacation. Let me know how you plan to ship the animals and a date that is
good for you and I will let you know if it works for me.
Regards,
John
Fred,
Any day next week for shipping the animals would be good for me except for Tuesday the 13th. Let me know what works for you.
Regards,
John
www.jsreptiles.com ----- Original Message -----
Wrom: CAXZOWCONEUQ
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:55 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Argentines
Hey Fred,
Did you forget something?
John
John,
I apologize at the lack of communication on my part dureing the last week. I have three shipments that were supposed to go out , but had
to be delayed and put off, yours being one of them. I have finals this last week and they pretty much superseded anything else, even
eating at times. All consumeing, that about sums it up. I am going to ship this week.
I got this pair of snakes from Bob Guirerre at Ancient Reproductions. About 2 weeks ago I fed them their last meal prior to shipping
them to you. I usually like to have them completely cleaned out when I ship them. The male regurged his meal. The female had no problems
digesting hers whatsoever. It didnt conecern me much, primarily because neither of these snakes EVER has shown and degree
of problem in that area, and the temps here fluctuated from high spikes to low, which can be a root cause of it.
I waited a week and fed the male again , and the female. Again, after 2 dfays the male threw up his prey, the female didnt.
I wanted to tell you about this up front, that if you still wanted them I would send them to you, if you wanted me to watch them for several
more weeks to see if this pattern ends and is just temp induced, then I could do that, or if you wanted a refund, I would work
on that. One week ago I intended to notify you about this problem. But the idiotic school final schedule kept me off the computer,
both on the forums, the classifieds and answering emails. NONE of my other snakes exhibited any syptoms or regurged at all
This was an unexpected and totally suprising thing to happen, I have had VERY few snakes that had this type of problem,
primarily because i dont constantly bring animals in and out and maintain quarantine on them when they do come in.
Please email me back and let me know what you would like to do in this matter. Again, i am truly sorry for not getting back
with you about this and the delayed shipment earlier.
Fred
Hi Fred,
I appreciate your honesty in this matter. I was beginning to get concerned about not hearing from you. Unfortunately, after being informed of this, I must decline on purchasing these animals.
I have been keeping boas since grade school, I am now 41, and I have only ever had one boa regurgitate. I took the animal to the vet and had labs run. They came back positive for some type of parasite, I do not remember what it was but presumably, it came from a frozen feeder rat. (freezing did not kill the parasite) I started the animal on flagyl as instructed by my vet, after several weeks of treatment the labs were repeated and came back negative for the parasite. The snake however, continued to regurgitate even after giving it a months rest and feeding it a very small rat. After several hundred dollars and a lot of work and heartache the snake died. I had a necropsy done but nothing conclusive was found.
There are, as you know, many factors that can cause regurgitation in snakes but with boas the outcome is not always good.
I am truly sorry about this happening to your animal and I am hoping for a positive outcome. Regrettably, in light of my past experience, I am definitely going to have to turn down these animals after learning about this.
When you are able, I would appreciate a refund. I hope to hear from you soon.
Best Regards,
John
www.jsreptiles.com
John,
I sent the female pinesnake out today. She will arrive by 3:00 tomorrow at your door via fed ex. Tracking number is:
836553354774. The snake was shipped in a large styro container, and because of your proximity and location , they made a HUGE
deal over getting it to you and also charged an insane amount. After pulling the snake out and handleing it,I noticed that she seems
to have retained one of her eggs from this years breding. She eats, defecates and is fine, but I saw the egg visibly today.
This turn of events doesnt make me at all happy, as I was unaware of it. She produced 10 good eggs this year.
Because of this, I sent you another snake along with it, to make u[p for the fact that this snake was in this condition.
I sent you one of my locale Minnesota Bullsnake females(I had 2) . She is locale specific. I hope this in some way offsets the
you may have with the pinenskae. she looks great and eats, but I found the egg in her today, haveing not handled her since she laid because
of school work and finals. Please let me know when they arrive. I am sorry for the inconvenince and how long it took me
to get this snake to you.
Fred
Hi Fred,
I wanted to be sure to return this to you ASAP so you can notify the appropriate person of their shipment.
The attached email titled Re:Argentines contains information concerning shipment of pinesnakes and must have been intended for another recipient.
I hope you received my email earlier today concerning the Argentines. If not, please let me know and I will resend.
Regards,
John Skipper
Fred,
I need to contact you as soon as possible concerning this matter. Give me your phone number and I will call you, or you can call me, my cell phone number is 410-913-3921 (I can be reached any time)
Fred,
Something is not adding up here. I think your emails are still crossed.
I was purchasing the pair of Argentine boas, you emailed me yesterday to tell me about the male Argentine regurgitating. I replied to that email yesterday afternoon. Yesterday evening I received an email from you regarding the purchase and shipment of a female pinesnake it was attached to an old email that I had sent to you about shipping of the Argentines and the subject line for the email was "Shipping Argentines." I suspected that I was not the intended recipient of this mail so I sent the message back to you with the subject line "Important! Email correction please read" and a brief note. This morning I received another copy of your same email pertaining to the shipping of the female pinesnake with the subject line "John this letter never made it to you, email mix up"
All of the threads that I am referring to are still attached to this email if you want to read down the page to try to figure it out.
I have no idea if the person who is buying the pinesnake ever got any of your messages.
Also, please let me know if you received my message to you yesterday regarding the Argentines.
I will be more than happy to contact you by telephone to discuss this if you would send me your number.
If you would prefer to contact me, my number is (410) 913-3921
Thanks,
John Skipper
Fred,
It has been about a month since our last communication, I believe you are sincere about returning my money but I wanted to know how it was coming along.
Regards,
John
www.jsreptiles.com
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: ZAAFXISHJEXX
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:07 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Argentine Refund
Fred,
I emailed you several days ago and did not get a reply. I would appreciate a response ASAP in regards to the status of my refund for the Argentine boas.
Regards,
John Skipper
Wrom: IMQZUIVOTQNQ
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 9:20 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Re: Argentine Refund
How you making out FredWrom: EMSFDULHPQQW
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:07 PM
To: Fred Albury
Subject: Argentine Refund
Fred,
I emailed you several days ago and did not get a reply. I would appreciate a response ASAP in regards to the status of my refund for the Argentine boas.
Regards,
John Skipper
John,
I am sorry for the lag time between your letter and this response. I have been unable toraise the funds necessary
to provide you with a full refund at this time. However, I have a show comeing up in 2 weeks and have the potential of makeing
some or all of that money there. I may have to pay you in increments, not because I want to, but simply because I
do not have it all at one time. In retrospect, the one month deadline I set to repay your purchase price wasnt
realistic, and I should have set it at 3 or 4 months, neither number of which makes me happy and I imagine that
it doesnt do much for you either. I am sorry about this whole thing, and will try my best to resolve this matter in as
expedient a time period as I possibly can.
thank you,
Fred
How you making out Fred?
John,
Not to good, sales have been behond slow despite me dropping my prices and attending 3 shows in 4 months.
And, additionally, at the last show I attended with Rick and Becky from Renegade Reptiles, I parked my car
on the street at a meter while loading THEM into the show. I had paid the meter, but got TOWED.
The other vendors raised the money for the tow and I had to pay them back. That money was cash I was going to use
to help pay back my debts, namely you. Total cost of Tow: $325.00 I was so pissed off. That is about how it has been.
Fred
Wrom: OYIYZUNNYCGPK
To: Fred Albury
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: Argentine Refund
Fred,
I am emailing you in regards to the status of my refund. When this incident arose 3 months ago you informed me that I would be refunded the $590.00 in 1 month that you owed me for the Argentine boas I never received and did not want after you informed me that the one had been regurgitating. At the end of one month you then inform me that 3-4 months would have been more realistic in terms of me receiving my money. I emailed you 2 weeks ago and you said it wasn't going good. It is now the beginning of November and the end of 3 months and I haven't heard anything from you. I am not going to get into a long drawn out discussion about business practices or ethics and what is right and wrong, what you did to me I have never had happen to me before in the 30 years I have been in this hobby and I would never think of doing it to anyone else. You know and I know what you did was wrong, one of the first rules in this business is to never spend the money you receive for animals until your customer has received his or her animals and they are satisfied and the animals are healthy. I am usually pretty easy going and try to believe in people and that they have the best intentions and are honest. I don't know what is going on with you but at this point I really do not care. My daughter has health problems and I can't afford the doctor bills (they all want cash up front). You know the old saying - family comes first- and mine does come first. I have been wholesaling my animals out and doing whatever else I can in order to get my daughter the best care I can. So Fred to be short, simple and to the point I think you have been given plenty of time, I desperately need and want my money back and I really do not care what you are going to have to sell, beg, or borrow in order to get it back to me. I really do not want to go public with this and I do not want to hurt your reputation, but you spent my money that you shouldn't have and now 3 months have gone by and I need the $590.00 and I want it back.
Regards,
John
----- Original Message -----
Fred,
I have not heard anything from you in several months. I have been very patient and more than generous with the amount of time that has gone by waiting for my refund. At this time I have kept this totally private and have not discussed this situation with anyone else outside of my family, not wanting to hurt your name or reputation. I am giving you until the end of January 2003 (this will be giving you a total of 6 months to return the $590.00 you owe me) to come up with the money, if I do not receive it at that time I am turning you in to K__________, the F______ classified (board of inquire) and every place and every everyone else I can think of. You can send the payment of $590.00 (I want a postal money order) in full to PO BOX 650 White Marsh, Maryland 21162 This will be the last email you will receive from me if I do not receive my money in full by the end of January. If by February 1st I do not have my money look for your name and all of the events that have transpired on the F_____ classified, I also intend on posting this information on my website and updating it on a weekly basis on K_________ for those people who do not go to F_______ (board of inquire).
Regards,
John
I am sending this to you a second time to be sure there is no confusion as to what is going on
Fred,
I have not heard anything from you in several months. I have been very patient and more than generous with the amount of time that has gone by waiting for my refund. At this time I have kept this totally private and have not discussed this situation with anyone else outside of my family, not wanting to hurt your name or reputation. I am giving you until the end of January 2003 (this will be giving you a total of 6 months to return the $590.00 you owe me) to come up with the money, if I do not receive it at that time I am turning you in to K________, the F______ classified (board of inquire) and every place and every everyone else I can think of. You can send the payment of $590.00 (I want a postal money order) in full to PO BOX 650 White Marsh, Maryland 21162 This will be the last email you will receive from me if I do not receive my money in full by the end of January. If by February 1st I do not have my money look for your name and all of the events that have transpired on the F______ classified, I also intend on posting this information on my website and updating it on a weekly basis on K________ for those people who do not go to F_______ (board of inquire).
Regards,
John
Hi Fred,
Sorry my cell battery died last night, I am glad we got a chance to talk and I believe everything should be straightened out and clear at this point. If anything changes or you need to get me you can email me or call any time at 410-913-3921. The number I use for tracking with northwest here on the East Coast is 1-800-692-2746 If that number is good on the West Coast they can probably answer your questions or at least give you a number of someone who can as far as shipping live non venomous snakes and not being a known shipper. I will keep an eye on the weather here and if it looks like it will be acceptable for shipping at any time I will contact you to see if we can pick a day that will work for both of us, if you are able to send the money before this happens I would prefer this as I am still a little uncomfortable with the snakes. Good luck with everything.
Regards,
John
From: John Skipper <[email protected]>
>To: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
>Subject: everything ok?
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:48:59 -0500
>
>Hi Fred,
>I tried calling you several times and can't get you. I'm not calling to
>harass you or start any ####. I believed we had everything straight, I
>have been trying to contact you about the shipping in case we get a window
>to ship the animals. Please get back to me to let me know everything is
>still cool.
>John
John,
Everything is still cool. I apologize that I havent communicated with you as
clearly as I would have liked to, but have been looking for work and dealing
with the affects of the oncomeing war on my family.
It has been cold and rainy out here, and because of that I havent looked
into the shipping. I will make an attempt to do so next week, at least to
get some information on the same, so that it can be used when temps here and
there look favorable. Didnt get the phone calls, but thats no bigee. Will
keep in contact with you, didnt want you to worry.
Fred
From: John Skipper <[email protected]>
>To: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: everything ok?
>Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:43:02 -0500
>
>Hi Fred,
>Thank you for your prompt reply. It is none of my business but I assume
>from your email that you have relatives in the Service. I hope for the
>best
>for you and your family and if any of them are overseas that they return
>home safely. Good luck in your search for a job, I keep on hearing how
>good
>the economy is and how low the unemployment level is, but I don't see it
>were I am.
>
>John
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fred Albury" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 2:15 AM
>Subject: Re: everything ok?
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: John Skipper <[email protected]>
> > >To: Fred Albury <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: everything ok?
> > >Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:48:59 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi Fred,
> > >I tried calling you several times and can't get you. I'm not calling
>to
> > >harass you or start any ####. I believed we had everything straight, I
> > >have been trying to contact you about the shipping incase we get a
>window
> > >to ship the animals. Please get back to me to let me know everything
>is
> > >still cool.
> > >John
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Everything is still cool. I apologize that I havent communicated with
>you
>as
> > clearly as I would have liked to, but have been looking for work and
>dealing
> > with the affects of the oncomeing war on my family.
> > It has been cold and rainy out here, and because of that I havent
>looked
> > into the shipping. I will make an attempt to do so next week, at least
>to
> > get some information on the same, so that it can be used when temps here
>and
> > there look favorable. Didnt get the phone calls, but thats no bigee.
>Will
> > keep in contact with you, didnt want you to worry.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Message from johnS about
>http://forum.kingsnake.com/retic/messages/13108.html
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:52:13 -0600 (CST)
>
>Fred,
>I have been trying to get in touch with you. I thought we had everything
>straightned out. If there is a problem or something has come up please let
>me know and maybe we can work something out. You can email me or call
>410-529-1323
>John
>
>
>This message was sent by the user: johnS
>
>
John,
I apoligize for not contacting you before. I have been working 10 hour days
and frankly ANYTHING that isnt related to me getting another place to live,
my daughter, or my present bills has taken a BACK SEAT, as it rightly
should. It sems everyone wants personalized attention from me while I am in
the midst of my crisis. I'm sorry for them but they arent going to get it.
In your case, you and I talked, but my long distance got cut and I got to
busy to even send emails out. I think the most I have been on line in the
last 2 weeks is to tell a guy on the retic forum I was sorry his retic died.
Thats it...
You know its funny....I dont miss it a bit. From the forum trolls to
customers bitching about snaks not feding cause they set them up wrong...it
is a very draining thing.
I saw your post on the Indigo forum.As you see the response YOU got was one
of negativity, which is what this whole thing has become to me. Dont get me
wrong,I still like the animals, but the people just plain suck.
My life is in flux COMPLETELY, I have to be out of here in less than 2 weeks
or I get an eviction notice, which menas my credit is shot and cant get
another place. My family lives on the EAST coast and I cant move there(kid).
So basically, I am sitting in the lions den. Just got hired on a job, which
was supposed to make pretty decent pay, but later found out just how
limiting the paycheck was and how all consuming and how many hours I was
having to work for the same check.
So, I am not blowing you off, but I am not in a position to afford to ship
your snakes right now, nor do I have the time off to do so. I am sorry that
you are having to go through this with me, you dont deserve this treatment
and it saddens me that I have been reduced to this. I dont really care
anymore about my"reputation" in this business, I am simply tired of it. But,
it still bothers me greatly. Its a matter of principle. I cant ship your
snakes right now, maybe after the smoke clears and I become established I
will be able to ship them or Refund your purchase price in full. But right
now things are way to hectic to undertake anything like that. I actually
have to sell snakes, hopefully locally, so that I can get another place. You
may see them online, but I have yet to respond to people asking about them.
THATs how busy I have been Again, sorry for the lack of clear communication.
Sincerely,
Fred
Hi Fred,
I hope things are getting better for you and if not I hope that they do in
the near future. The weather here is finally starting to come around and
should be good for shipping in a week or two. If you do not have the
funding to ship the animals let me know and we can probably work something
out. Get back to me when you can and let me know how your schedule is as
far as being able to ship and your preferred means of shipping and the cost.
Talk to you soon.
Take Care,
John
Fred,
How do you normally ship them? FedEx, UPS, or what? If I send you a money
order for the cost of shipping in full can you ship them? Please get back,
I told you I would work with you on this and I meant it.
John
Fred,
I couldn't be making this easier than I am, I told you I would send you
money to ship the snakes it's that simple over and done. If you have sold
the animals because you needed the money or something has happened to them,
please be honest with me and just tell me what is going on so that we can go
Hi Fred,
I emailed you a couple of days ago through k______'s classifieds about the Argentine boas. The weather here is good and obviously you are able to ship animals out now, so please get back to me so that we can arrange shipment ASAP. I told you that I will pay the shipping, all you have to do is box them up and send them on there way, UPS, FedEx, it doesn't matter. I think you'll agree that this has gone on long enough and I just want to be done with it.
Best Regards,
John
THIS WAS THE LAST EMAIL SENT TO FRED ON 4/21/2003
annmccabemiles
New member
Fred sent me two emails yesterday;
Ann,
I produced that snake about two years+ ago, and popped it(Eversion of
hemipenis ) as a female.
I would never have offered it up for sale as a female if I hadnt thought it
to be one. I am truly puzzled about this. If you are not happy with this
snake and want your money back then please contact me. I am perplexed by
this happening.
Fred
The ad from which I purchased this snake read that she was
0.1 1999 - that would make her more like 4 years old - too much of a discrepancy IMO.
The second email I got was not so nice, Fred is not a happy camper. It reads:
Ann,
I dont have any striped females at home. Had I had one,I would have sent it to you. I THOUGHT that I DID send a female to you. I read your post. Frankly I feel two ways about this: a)Sorry that this sale culminated in your not getting what I advewrtised and raised up as a female, b)Disgusted at the amount of negative press, both from you and from all the people waiting for you to say something negative so they could AGAIN do , that which they have always done...DEMEAN me, regardless of whatever I am doing.
Guesss my rep is ruined. Good day.
Fred
P.S.
This wil no doubt be posted also.
Maybe Fred really did think that he had a female, but there are so many holes in this story that I am just too disgusted to
deal with it any longer. I have a snake, a beautiful snake and I
will make it work.
Another bothersome thought, this is from Landon and Freds email
conversation:
Message to Fred, 5/20/03:
Hi Fred,
Just curious as to where we are with these guys... did you get my email about possibly substituting a different type of snake for the hognose? Hate to see you have to buy a snake to fulfill an order.
LJ
Message from Fred dated 5/27/03:
As far as your snake, I have to contact Rick at Renaegade and see if I can
get a of hognose from him to replace yours. The onl snakes I have left that
are ven in the ball park figure wise are a Covina cal king(Soldi brown calif
kingsnbake, produced by the late Lloy Lemke years ago, weird as hell, people
see it and say"Thats a cal king?" and perhaps a Striped Cal King female. Not
much to draw from. I am in the process of TRYING to sell some of my animals
so that I can fill and send out orders that are overdue or are snakes people
want me to search for. Just wanted to let you know I hadnt forgotten about
you.
Fred
Well, I certainly hope he was not referring to MY snake,and if so GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I had paid for that snake months prior to this email.
Now that there is another dissatified customer, John, speaking out maybe others that are hesitant to post for fear of getting nothing will also post. This is a crime.
One thing I must add. I have made many online purchases here and I will continue to do so, although with more scrutiny than before. I may be nice but I am not stupid.
My thanks to all who posted in my behalf.
Sincerely,
Ann McCabe Miles
PS Fred, I think the hiatus idea is a good one. Get your act together and start again. IMHO it is easier to revive a good reputation than to establish one in the first place. You do have nice animals and that's no lie.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Ann,
I produced that snake about two years+ ago, and popped it(Eversion of
hemipenis ) as a female.
I would never have offered it up for sale as a female if I hadnt thought it
to be one. I am truly puzzled about this. If you are not happy with this
snake and want your money back then please contact me. I am perplexed by
this happening.
Fred
The ad from which I purchased this snake read that she was
0.1 1999 - that would make her more like 4 years old - too much of a discrepancy IMO.
The second email I got was not so nice, Fred is not a happy camper. It reads:
Ann,
I dont have any striped females at home. Had I had one,I would have sent it to you. I THOUGHT that I DID send a female to you. I read your post. Frankly I feel two ways about this: a)Sorry that this sale culminated in your not getting what I advewrtised and raised up as a female, b)Disgusted at the amount of negative press, both from you and from all the people waiting for you to say something negative so they could AGAIN do , that which they have always done...DEMEAN me, regardless of whatever I am doing.
Guesss my rep is ruined. Good day.
Fred
P.S.
This wil no doubt be posted also.
Maybe Fred really did think that he had a female, but there are so many holes in this story that I am just too disgusted to
deal with it any longer. I have a snake, a beautiful snake and I
will make it work.
Another bothersome thought, this is from Landon and Freds email
conversation:
Message to Fred, 5/20/03:
Hi Fred,
Just curious as to where we are with these guys... did you get my email about possibly substituting a different type of snake for the hognose? Hate to see you have to buy a snake to fulfill an order.
LJ
Message from Fred dated 5/27/03:
As far as your snake, I have to contact Rick at Renaegade and see if I can
get a of hognose from him to replace yours. The onl snakes I have left that
are ven in the ball park figure wise are a Covina cal king(Soldi brown calif
kingsnbake, produced by the late Lloy Lemke years ago, weird as hell, people
see it and say"Thats a cal king?" and perhaps a Striped Cal King female. Not
much to draw from. I am in the process of TRYING to sell some of my animals
so that I can fill and send out orders that are overdue or are snakes people
want me to search for. Just wanted to let you know I hadnt forgotten about
you.
Fred
Well, I certainly hope he was not referring to MY snake,and if so GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I had paid for that snake months prior to this email.
Now that there is another dissatified customer, John, speaking out maybe others that are hesitant to post for fear of getting nothing will also post. This is a crime.
One thing I must add. I have made many online purchases here and I will continue to do so, although with more scrutiny than before. I may be nice but I am not stupid.
My thanks to all who posted in my behalf.
Sincerely,
Ann McCabe Miles
PS Fred, I think the hiatus idea is a good one. Get your act together and start again. IMHO it is easier to revive a good reputation than to establish one in the first place. You do have nice animals and that's no lie.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Boavoyage
Got Boa???
To John Skipper,
I am very sorry for your deal with Fred. I remeber when Fred reposted his ads on Kingsnake for the pair high pink Argentine, he said the reason because the buyer couldn't make up his mind (or buyer changed his mind). It's horrible that he blamed it on the buyer when he was at fault. In regard of the excuse about his car was towed, it would be nice if some vendor who attended the IRBA in last October could come here and post his/her experience if there is such incident happened. I believe this is another of those lame pity excuses that Fred used, since I don't recall such incident happened, unless it happened after the show hour (I was there last October, but left after show was closed. Vendor could stay longer.)
I am very sorry for your deal with Fred. I remeber when Fred reposted his ads on Kingsnake for the pair high pink Argentine, he said the reason because the buyer couldn't make up his mind (or buyer changed his mind). It's horrible that he blamed it on the buyer when he was at fault. In regard of the excuse about his car was towed, it would be nice if some vendor who attended the IRBA in last October could come here and post his/her experience if there is such incident happened. I believe this is another of those lame pity excuses that Fred used, since I don't recall such incident happened, unless it happened after the show hour (I was there last October, but left after show was closed. Vendor could stay longer.)
Python Dreams
New member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2002
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- 320
- Reaction score
- 29
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- 0
- Age
- 53
- Location
- Lake Elsinore, California
I've been camping for a few days and missed the whole aftermath... I apologize for bringing it back up to the top, but wanted to say a few things.
Fred Albury definately came out as a "Bad Guy" here, and I find it hard to believe that any of these customers will be satisfied soon. Everyone has money problems, but to continue to sell animals and take money while not shipping is ridiculous. In reality he has to look out for his family first, cusomers second. BUT!!!! Just slow it down Fred and pay them off 1 at a time. Your only demeaning yourself by dragging out these sales.
You can possibly see why people might follow his posts around and want to notify people that he is a "Bad Guy". Two weeks ago he would've been considered a "Good Guy" on the BOI, and I can see how that would upset some of his "stalkers", furthering their quest to prove he's a "Bad Guy". Was someone banned from using this site do to what they have said in this thread? I have thought that some of their posts were childish, antagonistic, hot-headed, and very sure of their point, but to deserve being banned? They were actually correct on their label of "Bad Guy" and to be honest, noone has proven them wrong in their story about the plane crash. I dont think any more fuel is needed for the fire, but would've been nice to know either way wether that story was true.. I really was just curious if someone was banned, or if I am just tired from Jalama.
Thanks, Tom Baker
Fred Albury definately came out as a "Bad Guy" here, and I find it hard to believe that any of these customers will be satisfied soon. Everyone has money problems, but to continue to sell animals and take money while not shipping is ridiculous. In reality he has to look out for his family first, cusomers second. BUT!!!! Just slow it down Fred and pay them off 1 at a time. Your only demeaning yourself by dragging out these sales.
You can possibly see why people might follow his posts around and want to notify people that he is a "Bad Guy". Two weeks ago he would've been considered a "Good Guy" on the BOI, and I can see how that would upset some of his "stalkers", furthering their quest to prove he's a "Bad Guy". Was someone banned from using this site do to what they have said in this thread? I have thought that some of their posts were childish, antagonistic, hot-headed, and very sure of their point, but to deserve being banned? They were actually correct on their label of "Bad Guy" and to be honest, noone has proven them wrong in their story about the plane crash. I dont think any more fuel is needed for the fire, but would've been nice to know either way wether that story was true.. I really was just curious if someone was banned, or if I am just tired from Jalama.
Thanks, Tom Baker
Stardust
human
I totally agree with you Tom. And yes, I believe Al was banned. I do not agree with it either. As I read it, Fred really is a bad guy and Al was only sticking up for himself when attacked. This kind of banning upsets me.
Fred has yet to make good, where are all those who try to draw people out now? At the risk of getting a point myself, I believe that if a moderator attacks, but can not answer questions, only expects questions answered, then those being attacked have a right to defend themselves.
Fred has yet to make good, where are all those who try to draw people out now? At the risk of getting a point myself, I believe that if a moderator attacks, but can not answer questions, only expects questions answered, then those being attacked have a right to defend themselves.
sir-pent
New member
Moderators... hello?
Now that the topic has been brought up, I emailed the moderator in one case and clicked on the 'report this post to a moderator' in another case and have not heard a response from either one.
I read on one post earlier in this thread about how everyone on the thread has violated BOI rules of some sort (loosely paraphrased) and since I am new inquired what I had done wrong. No response.
How can we be expected to follow the rules if, when we inquire about them we receive no answer. Now, will I get my wrist slapped for bringing this up?
Landon Johnson
Now that the topic has been brought up, I emailed the moderator in one case and clicked on the 'report this post to a moderator' in another case and have not heard a response from either one.
I read on one post earlier in this thread about how everyone on the thread has violated BOI rules of some sort (loosely paraphrased) and since I am new inquired what I had done wrong. No response.
How can we be expected to follow the rules if, when we inquire about them we receive no answer. Now, will I get my wrist slapped for bringing this up?
Landon Johnson
Seamus Haley
Big Game Hunter
The rules... and their application... are very clearly put forth in the threads that remain at the top of the BOI.
Including the thread about complaining because someone didn't bother to read the rules.
Not exactly the situation with you, as you are wondering why something was not immediately punished when you wrote a complaint, but the reasons for that are in there as well.
Bottom line is-
It's Rich's website. It's free to use. Obey the rules or you *might* get caught and punished. All punishments are at the discretion of the moderators. Don't like it? Don't use the site.
Including the thread about complaining because someone didn't bother to read the rules.
Not exactly the situation with you, as you are wondering why something was not immediately punished when you wrote a complaint, but the reasons for that are in there as well.
Bottom line is-
It's Rich's website. It's free to use. Obey the rules or you *might* get caught and punished. All punishments are at the discretion of the moderators. Don't like it? Don't use the site.
HerpVenue
New member
John his car was towed. That much I can vouch for.
In fact I believe it was that Friday night . I have some e-mails for and against both sides.
Classic Dum's
Twisted Sister
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2002
- Messages
- 791
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- 7
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- 0
- Age
- 50
- Location
- york, pa land of the free!
Richie how do you know that? You know I trust your word but your in MD?(east coast) so I have to assume you were not there and emails from Fred to you claiming it happened arent enough for me. I as well would like to hear from someone who was there that is creditable that handed him money to get it back. Althought maybe you were there? If so that would put it to rest. Thanks dude.
Ken Harbart
New member
I haven't received any emails, but that's neither here nor there at this point. Rich has made me aware of the need for me to address this thread.
Landon, the reference to "everyone" if I'm reading correctly, was not an implication that all parties involved were violating the rules of this site.
Now then, there's no one specific act that led to Anaconda Al being banned. It was cumulative, and took a concerted effort on his part. He was given numerous warnings by both myself and the Webslave to tone down his rhetoric. The thread was even temporarily locked in order to let it simmer down. Once it was reopened, Al opted to keep taking pot shots at this site and its members.
Landon, the reference to "everyone" if I'm reading correctly, was not an implication that all parties involved were violating the rules of this site.
Now then, there's no one specific act that led to Anaconda Al being banned. It was cumulative, and took a concerted effort on his part. He was given numerous warnings by both myself and the Webslave to tone down his rhetoric. The thread was even temporarily locked in order to let it simmer down. Once it was reopened, Al opted to keep taking pot shots at this site and its members.
sir-pent
New member
More on invective/harsh
OK, I would still like to know what it was that I typed that was invective and harsh.
______________________
Moderator sez...
But BOTH of you will cut out the invective and harsh language along with everyone else in this thread. NOW.
I tried as hard as possible to stay cool and I think I did, but evidently others think not. I would like to know where I crossed the line. That's all.
Landon Johnson
OK, I would still like to know what it was that I typed that was invective and harsh.
______________________
Moderator sez...
But BOTH of you will cut out the invective and harsh language along with everyone else in this thread. NOW.
I tried as hard as possible to stay cool and I think I did, but evidently others think not. I would like to know where I crossed the line. That's all.
Landon Johnson
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
banned?
"First of all, the naysayers here that would rather view Fred as the victim (and you the villian) will want you to prove your claim (although the'd rather throw your case out for lack of evidence, even though your emails probably will have no impact on them anyway). "
That is the statement that got "Al" banned??? Wow. There have been many statements posted by some of the "senior members" of this site that were WAY more rude/demeaning/childish/whatever that the above statement or any other that was made by "Al". I believe he was stating his opinion, I hope that is still okay to do on this site. That's one of the reasons I like it. Or liked it, as the case may be.
"First of all, the naysayers here that would rather view Fred as the victim (and you the villian) will want you to prove your claim (although the'd rather throw your case out for lack of evidence, even though your emails probably will have no impact on them anyway). "
That is the statement that got "Al" banned??? Wow. There have been many statements posted by some of the "senior members" of this site that were WAY more rude/demeaning/childish/whatever that the above statement or any other that was made by "Al". I believe he was stating his opinion, I hope that is still okay to do on this site. That's one of the reasons I like it. Or liked it, as the case may be.
Stardust
human
I agree Kelli,
I have seen all too many time one point here one point there for name calling and antagonizing. Some pretty foul names I may add. But Al got what? five warnings and poof he was off?
Its a shame new people come onto this site and get banned for disagreeing, and basically that is what he got banned for. What about Fred? He did not recieve a point for opeing a new thread when he clearly knew one existed. And more importantly, he has STILL not made good.
Ken, I totally respect your opinion, you have never been brash, always level headed (that I have read) but in this case, and it is not you, it wrong.
I have seen all too many time one point here one point there for name calling and antagonizing. Some pretty foul names I may add. But Al got what? five warnings and poof he was off?
Its a shame new people come onto this site and get banned for disagreeing, and basically that is what he got banned for. What about Fred? He did not recieve a point for opeing a new thread when he clearly knew one existed. And more importantly, he has STILL not made good.
Ken, I totally respect your opinion, you have never been brash, always level headed (that I have read) but in this case, and it is not you, it wrong.
Stardust
human
Something else, I do believe in the point system, thought it was a good idea, ONLY if it is used fairly though.
And Seamus, it is all well and good that you use the comment about "dont like it? dont use the site" but it really doesn't cut it. I like this site, I will use this site. But there is room for constructive critisism. There are too many people out there who use this site as well but see the same flaws. If new people come on and have to defend themselves and get points but yet see that no one else is getting points, or little to none for far worse infractions, what does it say?
What does it say when big shooters fighting when it suits them or when they personally dont like the person for others rights, yet when it is someone they have done business with or like, they do not fight.
I applaud Rich for this site, just giving a view of my own.
Still, Fred has not made good.
And Seamus, it is all well and good that you use the comment about "dont like it? dont use the site" but it really doesn't cut it. I like this site, I will use this site. But there is room for constructive critisism. There are too many people out there who use this site as well but see the same flaws. If new people come on and have to defend themselves and get points but yet see that no one else is getting points, or little to none for far worse infractions, what does it say?
What does it say when big shooters fighting when it suits them or when they personally dont like the person for others rights, yet when it is someone they have done business with or like, they do not fight.
I applaud Rich for this site, just giving a view of my own.
Still, Fred has not made good.
Ken Harbart
New member
Landon- The comment that you quoted was directed at Boapit and Anaconda Al, not towards you.
Kelli & Rozann- I'm not infallible, and I'm just as prone to mistakes as the next person. As such, I've taken what you've both said into consideration, and have asked Rich to unban Mr Applebaum. When that's done, I'll personally email Al to let him know that he has been unbanned.
Fair enough?
Kelli & Rozann- I'm not infallible, and I'm just as prone to mistakes as the next person. As such, I've taken what you've both said into consideration, and have asked Rich to unban Mr Applebaum. When that's done, I'll personally email Al to let him know that he has been unbanned.
Fair enough?