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FRGRASSO Bad guy, sent me a dead caiman, has given no response

thenavarro said:
I'll let y'all know in a couple of days if I hear anything back from the mayor or any of the Fred Grasso's involved. I too find it to be coincidental, but hey, weirder things have happened. If I get no response from any of them, I will forward it to their local paper and see if I can get one of them to bite and see if they are telling me the truth about it being different Fred Grasso's.

Mike
Click to expand...

Do any of your news stations have a "problem solvers" segment? Our NBC station does, and I've noticed a lot of other locations do as well. They're really bored, and always willing to do dirty work when it comes to getting stuff resolved.
 
HerpKeeperVA said:
Do any of your news stations have a "problem solvers" segment? Our NBC station does, and I've noticed a lot of other locations do as well. They're really bored, and always willing to do dirty work when it comes to getting stuff resolved.
Click to expand...

Lisa

I think that most of the others on this forum would agree that this is the last sort of situation we should be encouraging into the media spotlight. Our industry takes a lot of flack as it is without stories about animals being shipped 2 day through the USPS in substandard packaging. I agree that the sender is liable and should make this right but a media blitz is tha absolute wrong way to go about it.
 
Mike,
You've been ripped off, and it seems "blown off" too. I am in the camp that thinks that all legal means available to you to get recovery should be pursued. Considering the possible appearance of shenanigans in the town politics there, which would be the one thing that might interest the media, I fully endorse using them as a possible tool. It is my impression that if the media does show an interest, it will not be because a caiman was shipped legally, if somewhat improperly. I don't see that as a blemish on the greater herp industry anyway. Rather, it would be (assuming the Fred Grasso that shipped is also the Fred Grasso city employee) that there might be the stink of corruption involving animal control, and now the Mayor's office. Go for it :thumbsup:
 
I second that. Go for it. If its all kosher at the mayors office...no harm no foul. If its not...I highly doubt the media would choose bashing this industry over frying up the mayor.
 
IMO you really need to find out if the FRGRASSO and the animal control officer are the same guy before you start sending in the media. What a pain in the ass for an innocent guy.

It really wouldn't be too difficult. Just call the guy on Apple Ave and act like you're in a panic because there's a pit bull in your yard etc etc. If nothing else you'll get to hear his voice, then you can call him at his office.
 
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. However, historically, with the exception of the occasional fluff piece on a reptile show, our industry gets virtually no good press. Pretty much every mention by the media is negative from escaped reptiles to banning of exotics altogether. We currently have one major carrier still willing to ship reptiles without major hoops. I, for one, would prefer as little media attention to a poor shipper as possible.

Legal channels?....I agree completely. Focus a media spotlight on a pic of that dead and rotting animal so the SPCA and PETA can sink their teeth into it?.....no thanks
 
I think it safe to assume that the first thing the media would do is check out that connection. Its the whole story right there, and I would recommend against anyone here trying to play long-distance-detective. Caller ID might make it a difficult ploy anyway. The media could care less about someone shipping a DOA caiman. If they are the same Fred Grasso, the story will be the possible graft, or "seized animal slush fund", or "what's the mayor covering up", etc. Speculating a bit, I can understand a town like that selling off seized reptiles and using the funds properly. There would be many protocols involved, and it may not be worth the trouble to them. I can also see an unscrupulous city employee trying to make a quick buck. As pointed out by others, the email from the mayor, if he/she in fact wrote it, stinks. There is neither slander nor libel in this thread as was alleged.
 
I am amazed that many of the people here think that alerting the media to this is a good idea. Think about this - what will we really accomplish? We may garner justice for one person - but at what cost? The reptile industry in general has been taken to task on many different fronts to simply maintain our rights to keep these animals. This is an ongoing battle in many states. If anyone doubts this, I suggest that they visit the PIJAC website.

Additionally, we are under increasing pressure to legally ship our animals to one another. At this point, we have very few options to do this legally. Let's not convince our existing shipping partners, that they should be worried and succumb to pressure from the many agencies that would like to see an end to the reptile trade.

Of course we also know that the city officials in question have already been alerted to the existence of this thread, so it's safe to assume, that if there is some unscrupulous activity, they are already working to minimize the damage.

I think that this issue should be dealt with directly with the individual in question, and the media should be left to writing their sensational stories about "Snakes on a Plane".
 
Mike Greathouse said:
I am amazed that many of the people here think that alerting the media to this is a good idea. Think about this - what will we really accomplish? We may garner justice for one person - but at what cost? The reptile industry in general has been taken to task on many different fronts to simply maintain our rights to keep these animals. This is an ongoing battle in many states. If anyone doubts this, I suggest that they visit the PIJAC website.

Additionally, we are under increasing pressure to legally ship our animals to one another. At this point, we have very few options to do this legally. Let's not convince our existing shipping partners, that they should be worried and succumb to pressure from the many agencies that would like to see an end to the reptile trade.

Of course we also know that the city officials in question have already been alerted to the existence of this thread, so it's safe to assume, that if there is some unscrupulous activity, they are already working to minimize the damage.

I think that this issue should be dealt with directly with the individual in question, and the media should be left to writing their sensational stories about "Snakes on a Plane".
Click to expand...

Yup..
 
While at times we must just "agree to disagree", it seems that we are going to have to "agree to be amazed" as well. To a few of us, if this thing has any media legs whatsoever, its because there's some corruption scandal beneath it all, and I reject the premise that this is about improper shipping, etc., and that that would be what is picked up on. All things regarding the shipping of a reptile seem to have been legal. If there is any stink here, such that the locals are working to minimize the damage, that would also make it amazing. Either they are or are not the same Fred Grasso. If they are, then the communication from the Mayor's office is already a very embarrassing document, and it will be the very center of any media interest. While I am in the camp that think this is not a poor reflection on our industry if something does come of it, I also think it more likely that it could reflect well on the industry if there's something foul in Lackawanna. On an even better note, the media, if they show any initial interest, is going to look at this thread as well. Its a healthy discussion.

In fact, maybe this Mayor is up for re-election, and has an opponent ... now there's an angle that might be worth looking into ! :thumbsup:
 
Jim,
While it may be true that there aren't many states that are looking to outlaw chameleons, this is a serious issue to those of us that deal with other species.

Let's try and look at the big picture!
 
Mike,

Jim,
While it may be true that there aren't many states that are looking to outlaw chameleons, this is a serious issue to those of us that deal with other species.

Let's try and look at the big picture!
Click to expand...

We disagree. Let's not start pretending that one of us is of limited experience or focus in this business, or that one has some better grasp on the "big picture". I assume your resume is substantial. Mine is also. Like I said, we disagree. :NoNo:
 
Jim,
No insult or disrespect was intended. Your credentials have been well established. I simply can't understand the desire to proceed with this to expose a possible small town scandal that is far away from most of us, at the expense of further damage to the reptile industry in general.

We are all members of a reptile specific forum because we share a similar interest. I feel that everyone here should do whatever is in their power to preserve the ability to pursue that interest.

With that said, I agree to disagree.
 
And good disagreement can be good, especially with regard to how we view the impact of a specific incident such as this, and the possible solutions on the broader community. With regard to this:
....We are all members of a reptile specific forum because we share a similar interest. I feel that everyone here should do whatever is in their power to preserve the ability to pursue that interest.
Click to expand...

.... We agree. I happen to think that my suggestons here are consistent with wanting a healthy reptile community, realizing that you and others may not agree with my self-assessment. If there is no corruption here, then the media will not give a hoot. My view is that if there is some meat on the bone, then the continued existence of a corrupt animal control that ships contraband animals is bad for the reptile industry. With the displayed disregard for both the health of the animal, and the satisfaction of the customer, it is potentially more harmful to the community if not exposed than if efforts are made to shine a light on it. I think that we both have a valid "big picture", and like so many other things, each approach has its pro's and con's. We've given people things to think about !
 
Mike Greathouse said:
I am amazed that many of the people here think that alerting the media to this is a good idea. Think about this - what will we really accomplish? We may garner justice for one person - but at what cost? The reptile industry in general has been taken to task on many different fronts to simply maintain our rights to keep these animals. This is an ongoing battle in many states. If anyone doubts this, I suggest that they visit the PIJAC website.

Additionally, we are under increasing pressure to legally ship our animals to one another. At this point, we have very few options to do this legally. Let's not convince our existing shipping partners, that they should be worried and succumb to pressure from the many agencies that would like to see an end to the reptile trade.

Of course we also know that the city officials in question have already been alerted to the existence of this thread, so it's safe to assume, that if there is some unscrupulous activity, they are already working to minimize the damage.

I think that this issue should be dealt with directly with the individual in question, and the media should be left to writing their sensational stories about "Snakes on a Plane".
Click to expand...


:iagree: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
THE CROOK FINALLY REPLIED. SEE BELOW. I'M TREMBLING, I'M STARTING TO "BOTHER THE WRONG PEOPLE". LOL

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "frgrasso" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: DOA caiman
To: [email protected]
hey mike,
your starting to bother the wrong people with this stupid caiman.
the animal control officer is my father that you are slandering with your false emails.
first of all,i shipped exactly what you paid for.
you had the choice of overnight shipping or 2-day,(which you selected 2 day)
iam not a pet store and dont refund money back or guarantee live arrival, i sold this caiman for a friend,so either way i never made anything.

HE CLAIMS I SELECTED 2 DAY SHIPPING AND GOT WHAT I PAID FOR, BELOW IS THE EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN US. AS YOU CAN READ THE ONLY REFERENCE TO SHIPPING IS I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS SHIPPING 2 DAY OR OVERNIGHT BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO OFFER HIM MORE FOR OVERNIGHT. HE REPLIED WITH AN ADDITIONAL COST FOR OVERNIGHT WHICH I AGREED TO. THE TOOL SHIPPED IT ANYWAY VIA USPS PRIORITY MAIL. (NON GUARANTEED 2 DAY)

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "frgrasso" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
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Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dwarf Caiman you listed on Fauna classifieds
To: "Mike Navarro" <[email protected]>
i didnt get your last email before it was shipped.
it shipped out today USPS 2 day.
thanks

Mike Navarro <[email protected]> wrote:
I prefer overnight to minimize stress time on the animal. ill send you another 25 via check. if you will please go ahead and ship. thanks
Mike

[[email protected]] wrote:
i was going to ship it USPS priority mail(1-3 days)
if you want i differant carrier or next day shipping it will be $20-$25 more
let me know how you want it shipped
thanks

Mike Navarro wrote:
no problem. what carrier will it be shipped by and is it next day or 2 day. im trying to figure out when to have its enclosure ready. im building an outdoor habitat.
Mike

[[email protected]] wrote:
hello,
i couldnt ship it out today,i worked later then expected.
i will have my wife ship it tomarrow ,she has off of work, thanks

Mike Navarro wrote:
Ok,

Please ship it to my work address so someone will be there to sign for and receive the caiman:

Mike Navarro
County Auditor
101 W. Main St. Suite 301
Waxahachie, TX 75165

Thanks and take care,
Mike

frgrasso wrote:
i will ship it monday
thanks

Mike Navarro wrote:
Hi,
Just letting you know that I shipped you a US Postal Service money order for $150.00 today via Express Mail. It should reach you tomorrow by noon. I look forward to receiving the Caiman. Thanks and take care,
Mike

frgrasso wrote:
hello,
you can mail it to my work address,

f r grasso
13 apple ave.
lackawanna,NY 14218

thanks


Mike Navarro wrote:
thats ok i can send check whats address
--- [email protected] wrote:
> sorry, i dont accept paypal.
>
> Mike Navarro wrote: ok do you
take paypal i can pay tonight when i get
> home
> --- [email protected] wrote:
> > then,i will sell it for $150
> >
> > Mike Navarro wrote: no it is
> texas
> > --- [email protected] wrote:
> > > is that a california zip code?
> > >
> > > Mike Navarro wrote: Hi,
> > > Thanks for the offer, but I can't go that high
> > right now.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > frgrasso wrote:
> > > hello,
> > > the caiman is very healty and very tame(will eat
> > out of your hand)
> > > never bites,will turn out to be a great pet.
> > > is eating crickets,small feeder fish,and pinkie
> > mice.
> > > the caiman is about 8" long.
> > > i can do it for $175 shipped,
> > > let me know ,thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Navarro wrote:
> > > Hi Robert,
> > >
> > > Would you take $150.00 shipped to zip code
75165?
> > >
> > > Let me know,
> > >
> > > Mike Navarro
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
 
I have told the tool that he has 5 days to refund my money in full after his diatribe above. I'll let you know how it progresses.

Mike Navarro
 
So.......an animal control officer's son is selling animals illegal to be kept in NY. Hm.
 
Don't know that I believe the nonsense coming from "Junior", but going back to the Mayor's email:

Dear Mr. Navarro, Fred Grasso, our animal control officer does not live at 13 Apple. I checked that address and there is a man named Fred Grasso that lives there but it is not the one we employ as our animal control officer. Please correct your staements as you are slandering an innocent man. I have also called our Mr. Grasso to show him your e-mail and will then send him to 13 Apple to check out what is going on. Mayor Polanski
Click to expand...

You would think that he might just look into it a bit more before he says "its not the same Fred Grasso", if he is even to be believed. So we can believe that he checked the payroll records and saw (possibly) that it wasn't the same mailing address as his employee. That would not prove that it wasn't his employee though. Maybe it would have been wise to ask the employee first, which would have also negated the "I'll send him out to see what is going on". Father or son, or one-in-the-same, it stinks even worse now. Write another note to the Mayor, saying "yeah, its his son", and your money might just show up real quick.
 
I just sent the following email to the mayor:

Mayor,

I received an email tonight from the FR Grasso at 13 Apple. He states that he is the animal control officers son. Is he going to receive any sort of citation or fine for selling a crocodiilian which he freely admits is illegal in NY? I've given him 5 days to return my money in full or I'll have to take the next step of contacting the media in the area to inform them that the son of the Animal Control officer in Lackawanna is peddling crocodiles. My patience is down to nothing in this entire scenario but first, I'm appealing to an honorable man in public office (yourself) to lean upon one of his employees to get his family to do the right thing.

Mike
 
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