Having trouble with Kingsnake.com Help Please!! Sorry, kind of long

[Neil Gubitz]

Adam.... If that's the way you TRULY interpret those laws.... I'll say it again!.... you're an IDIOT!.... It's Jeff's site, he can do whatever he wants with his sight (good or bad), he's not a monopoly, he's a private company that WE are being ALLOWED to participate in.... as it is with THIS site.... if you break the rules (in the OWNER'S EYES), he has every right to boot your a$$ right out of there!

Please, do me a favor.... DON'T call me anymore??? If you noticed, I haven't returned the last one's, and I don't want any more.... OK???.... Go play in your OWN mind!....

....Neil

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

However, that is not the case, as not only does he allow no competition, advertisement of competition or in some cases even mention of their names on his site.

One minor flaw in this theory. To date he has allowed some sites/forums that are a competing site/forum (albeit very very small competitors at best but none the less) to be linked to and discussed as an alternative site/forum to his own.

Just becarefull with broad blanket statements like that. You will need to read every forum and every single post on Kingsnake to prove that claim. But in this case I know for a fact you are incorrect.

 

[Adam Block]

Competing Classifieds/Hosting Services/Banner Ads - We don't allow people that sell services that directly compete with our primary business to advertise their competing products on our site. We certainly don't care where else they advertise them but we don't allow it on our site.

My remarks were solely based on KS TOS. It was also founded in his removal of my ads, the same ads I'd been posting for 3 year without deletion. This only happended after I posted an advertisment with prices so low other would have had to step things up to match them. Jeff was intent on keeping this information off of his site. So intent that after I was warned and then asked how I could post it to comply with TOS he deleted my entire account. At the point I my account was deleted I was just working on adding a 10% markup to the prices and offering the good myself.

Great point though,
Adam Block

 

[HerpVenue]

I'm under the impression that Jeff has thought because there is RTB.net and Rich's site he's safe. However, that is not the case, as not only does he allow no competition, advertisement of competition or in some cases even mention of their names on his site. But he also holds the market in the reptile industry.

So let me get this straight.
Just because he does not allow competing buissness to advertize on his site...All of a sudden he has a monopoly? It is his site.
It is not a monopoly..... Wanna know why? Because there are other forums out there. There are other classifieds out there.

Does Playboy have hustler or Penthouse adds in its magazine? I do not think so In fact I KNOW they don't.

So we should sue Playboy for having a monopoly? According to your logic, we can sue playboy.

Does penthouse have adds from either playboy or hustler in its magazine? NOPE----------I guess we can sue them too.

And what do you mean he holds the market for reptile industry?
His site is the most popular...that is it. He does not hold sh!t. At any point in time people can all just stop going there.

Adam before you try the monploy thing................Try thinking about it. I agree that you do have some points on his attitude or what not.....But the way you are going about things is not the right way.

And no I am not standing up for Jeff. He is nothing but another JOE POLANCO. Maybe it is time the two of them kissed and made up. Because if you disagree....you are banned or deleted.

Joe P = Jeff B
1. They both call the webslave asking for stuff to be deleted.
2. They both ban you or delete your stuff if you disagree with them.
3. If they do not like your site or forum....They both do what is necessary to shut it down.


Hey there are other sites out there....Like FAUNACLASSIFIEDS
and ohhhh how about this one
WWW.REPTILIANCLASSIFIEDS.COM

 

[HerpVenue]

This is a message from AdamBlock at FaunaClassifieds Forums ( http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/index.php3 ). The FaunaClassifieds Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.

To email AdamBlock, you can use this online form:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php3?action=mailform&userid=1777

OR, by email:
mailto:[email protected]

This is the message:

Wasn't it Lincoln who said something along the lines of "it's better to let people think you're stupid then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"?

Just my thoughts here but before you open your mount next time, you may want to do a little research.

U.S. v Vision Service
and
U.S. v Ren-Loi

These are two cases out of 1000s where your staitments don't apply. Jeff can't run his site any way he likes, he's a corp. and needs to follow laws.

It's nothing like Playboy and Hustler (I personally like Hustler more). What Jeff basicly is would be the Yellow pages in your home town. They can't decide not to provide you with service because they don't like or agree with you. If they do, and you loose money you could sue them.

Pull your head out of the sand buddy,
Adam Block

So Adam,
Does Playboy allow adds from hustler within their pages?
you still did not answer

It is like playboy and hustler.
They both have space for advertisments
They Both sell advertisments

That is Jeff's website. If he does not want competition on his wbsite..he does not have to have them.

Jeff has a website
I have a website.

Jeff sells classifieds on his website.
I sell snakes on mine.

I can say no to a sale.
Jeff can also say no to a sale.

I can terminate a sale if I want.
So can he.

I provide links from my site to competitors sites.
So does he.

At any point in time I can take off the competitors links or Ads on my site.
So can he.

It is you who nees to pull your head out of the sand

 

[HerpVenue]

Adam,
perhaps you need to rethink your ways.
You say people should NOT post about anyone if they have NOT done business with them.

Well I seem te remember you posting about Rodentpro's slow shipping so you decided NOT to do business with them.
Then you posted about the boahpiles slow way of getting your product to you...so you decided NOT to do business with him.

Then you post that stuff for Jason and Danni....because of your slow shipping.

You complain about other people being slow...when it is clear you are slow. You complain about people posting in threads against people they never did business with...but you do the same thing.

What am I trying to get at?
You need to take care of your business before you can take care of everyone else's.

You violated the TOS....he does not have to warn you. He can ban you on the spot without warning...beause the posted TOS is the warning.


So go ahead and sue all you want. Or do whatever you want.
Just try to make sure to take care of your business first.

 

[HerpVenue]

and just to let you know....
I test my password every several days on kingsnake adds.

Guess what I got today when I tested my password?

Error: Sorry, username not found in Database

 

[HerpVenue]

Does this mean I am banned?

I did not even get a warning.
And I have not posted an add in at least 2-3 months. So there is no way I can violate any TOS

 

[HerpVenue]

as it is with THIS site.... if you break the rules (in the OWNER'S EYES), he has every right to boot your a$$ right out of there!

Good point Neil,
Say it again. I totally agree with you.
BUT

Now tell me this. I have not posted a classified in a couple months. There is NO WAY that I could have violated any kingsnake classified TOS. But my account seems to have disappeared. No offer of any refund. No warning for TOS which I did not break. So he can just go and steal my money because it is his site?

 

[ms_terese]

More commentary and replies...

How does this square with Jeff Barringer calling me on the phone, DEMANDING that I delete Adam Block's thread off of MY site, drop a hint about a lawsuit, and then tell me he was BANNING any mention of the BOI on KINGSNAKE.COM?

Webslave, I didn't say that it squared at all. I think that Jeff might have done better by coming here and posting a brief statement on his decisions as to these events. My guess is that he had the mindset of "I don't have to explain myself to anyone" and chose to try to get the thread deleted. However, I think you have every right to keep it up and Jeff should respect that.

To clarify, I don't think that Jeff did anything wrong in deleting Adam's account, but I don't think he's handled this thread very well.

Now tell me this. I have not posted a classified in a couple months. There is NO WAY that I could have violated any kingsnake classified TOS. But my account seems to have disappeared. No offer of any refund. No warning for TOS which I did not break. So he can just go and steal my money because it is his site?

Ritchie, nope he can not just steal your money because it is his site. I hope that you're attempting to contact Jeff to get an explanation, and I hope you pass that explanation on to everyone here. If he did indeed shut down your account because of this thread, I absolutely feel he's in the wrong.

ummm....you did make sure it wasn't a typo the first time that you logged on, right? I'M KIDDING!

Let me further clarify that I don't know Jeff, I don't know Adam, heck I don't know anybody (but I'm tempted to go to Tampa just to see Neil and The Snake Pit), so I'm not defending or condemning anyone on a personal basis. I'm simply trying to see this from a business standpoint while watching it spin more and more out of control due to emotional responses from the involved parties.

I think Adam was out of line from the beginning. I think Jeff reacted harshly. I think it's all downhill from there.

 

[HerpVenue]

ummm....you did make sure it wasn't a typo the first time that you logged on, right?

I have windows set to log me on automatically.
That did not work, so I pulled out the secret notebook and typed in the stuff....that did not work.
So I pulled out the secret word document and copied and pasted the stuff... That did not work.

I am gonna copy and paste his TOS into my files before he changes them AGAIN.

But I wont say anymore. All I am gonna say is I need to be a better card player. I need to quit dropping him hints and just hold on to my cards.

Like I said before....it is his site. He can do what he wants to it.
As far as paying customers......he can do what he wants to them if they break his TOS. But when he decides to ban them because of some hair stuck up his @ss...that is a different story. Banning someone because of a hair stuck up your @ss is wrong.

I mean....look at it this way. When it comes to Jesse Underhill...I have a hair stuck up my @s about him. But I never tried to convince webslave to ban him.
1. It would be wrong for me to do.
2. It will be no fum without him.

 

[Lucy Howard]

I shouldn't even post, but something about all this just ruffles my feathers....maybe its because i hate dictatorships...
I'm not even going to get into what Adam did..he is something else.....and the way he brushes aside what he OWES to other people as being his own and their business....but then crying about Jeff keeping his money for more then a day now....Well, if he thinks THATS theft, what he does is no better, actually worse, since he owed it for so long now, and doesn't even think its important enough to dwell on it, or to have it mentioned at all.
Sorry , but thats POT--KETTLE--BLACK.
However what happend to Rich and Ritchie...or anyone who might have something less then complimentary to say about Jeff Barringer......that is just so wrong.
I totally agree that what Jeff does with HIS website is HIS business....HOWEVER once he accepts money for services (classifieds) he is bound by more then his own TOS, i would think...
There are laws that protect CONSUMERS, CUSTOMERS.
Ritchie paid for a classified account. He did NOT violate the TOS of kingsnake. He only voiced his OPINION about Jeffs business practices....and got his account canceled, as it seems.
No warning, no explanation.
Again, Ritchie PAID for that there account, right???
Is there a paragraph in Jeffs TOS that says...: "You better not criticize me or voice your concerns and opinions, or i will kick your account to hell..."
I worked in customer service, and there were many a customer who mouthed off and i would have gladly kicked them in the rear end and told them to go to hell....however in the REAL WORLD you are bound by regulations and laws....and if a customer PAYS for a product / service, then you CANNOT just flip them off, because you don't like what they have to say.
But appearentely some people think they can. And more people will be afraid to voice their opinion about what happend here to Rich and Ritchie for fear they too, will get their account yanked, without so much as a warning.
I love kingsnake.com......but you know why? Because of the PEOPLE there, that come to the forums and share pics and info, because of the PEOPLE that PAY to advertise their snakes, so i can look at them and purchase some.
When it comes right down to it........as a business you are NOTHING without your customers. And if there was another place to go to, to confer with other herp enthusiasts and read their info/look at their pics...i'll go there...and thankfully there are many such places cropping up.
Maybe/hopefully this is just a mistake/miscommunication and Jeff hasn't actually resorted to this kind of behaviour. He has done a lot for the herp community and i would hate for things like that to spoil it.

 

[Adam Block]

Here is another Jeff quote that sums things up fairly well:

If you have a problem with me or my sites you should
have the guts to put your email address on your posts.

Riiiiiight, he left off the end of that. So I can delete your account and cause your business as much harm as possible.

In this Country, you can't do whatever you want just because it's your business. What Jeff is doing is very wrong; he's affecting peoples businesses, income and livelihood, causing hardships and money troubles because you rub him wrong.

You're right, if he wants to run his business how he wants by charging a lot, making you use a blue font, having all out user names start with a J or something like that he has free rein. If on the other hand he wants to affect our incomes and cause us harm then he can't run his site the way he wants.

So far Jeff has caused me financial harm, as I can't sell my items on other sites. I just won't give in because he can't legally affect people lives like that at will over small issues.

Jeff has not competition when calculating things on hits. He is the only way to move products and now he's even trying to strong arm Rich.

You all don't see an issue with what he's doing to Rich? I honestly can't believe there is anybody defending Jeff and these tactics! We live in a Country founded on free speech and trade, you should fully allow that.

Ritchie, I have the HTML from his TOS and a few others of his pages for the parody site I'll be launching. You're going to love this!

Thanks all,
Adam Block

PS Remember, a refund of my $54 is no longer okay, Jeff needs to see he's accountable for the accounts he deletes so I will stop at nothing short of my account back.

PPS Hey, I have A GREAT idea for all you folks deffending Jeff. Why don't you talk him into promissing not to delete or harm anybodies account who speaks out about him or tell their story of how he treaded them. Then we'll see what happens when the truth gets out! Of course it would take one hell of a man to do somehting like that, but it would be nice to know what would come out if Jeff wasn't scaring everybody into silence.

 

[Adam Block]

I just got this quote in email, I would like to let you all know, just because the masses are saying jeff is right doesn't mean he is, and I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Just because it may be a majority, doesn't mean they are right.

Adam Block

 

[HerpVenue]

to those who were banned from the classifieds....and to those whose accounts were expired.
What error code are you getting? is this it?

"Error: Sorry, username not found in Database"

trying to figure it out since no one at KS has responded to my form submissions yet.


Also to those who were banned. Did he contact you and let you know you were banned.
To those whose accounts expired...where you sent some kind of reminder notice? ...because I do not have one yet.

Just trying to figure out what is going on.

 

[HerpVenue]

okay....

From: Jeff Barringer <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826
X-Accept-Language: en,fr
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Message to kingsnake.com Site Coordinator from [email protected]]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am showing that the classified account
under the username RitchieReptiles is
active and valid until 2/9/03

I am showing no bans under this username.
I know that we were working on our dbase
on and off all day and it has been offline
for several periods of time. Perhaps that
accounts for your inability to log in.

I know when I jump to conclusions..
I know when I am wrong.
I hereby publicly and humbly apologize for doing so.

 

[Adam Block]

Ritchie, you are one hell of a CASE!!! First, you don't look into this **** with Jeff and you're emailing me with things like:

did you get my e-mail with the link to his service provider?
We can complain to them.....
But we do have to give him time to refund our money.

What does your screen say when you try to log on to the classifieds? I am wondering If I am really banned or if this was just a fluke. I am betting on the former instead of the latter.

The guy who received spam mail....I am trying to get him to complain about kingsnake.

Because if enough people complain....Jeff can lose his site.
Unfortunately..if he loses his site... He takes a lot of other poeples websites with him.. You know, the ones he is hosting.

And:

Isn't it obvious..
You are looking to make a parody of his site.
I on the other hand...just want his site gone.
That is fine if you do not want to complain to his service provider.
I will, however, do whatever I can. Just watch your back because the guy likes to threaten lawsuits a lot.

Like I said before... He can ban whoever he wants if those people break his TOS

But when he bans a paying customer just because he does not like them.........................that is a different story.

I am curently in contact with other sites..... Trying to help them compete. Since I do not have the money to make the site myself.... I figure I can just donate my time to make other sites better. I have already deleted kingsnakes links from my links page. I have also deleted kingsnake classified links from my classified page. It is obvious he has his moderators talking up a storm on other sites. They are doing whatever they can to belittle fauna. Why? competition. Right now fauna is probably their biggest competition.

First you wanna work against me. Then you think Jeff wronged you and you wanna work with me? Make up your mind buddy. I don't buy it that you can feel that strong about Jeff that you want to shut him down and then go right back to brown nosing.

Very fishy in my eyes,
Adam Block

 

[HerpVenue]

First you wanna work against me. Then you think Jeff wronged you and you wanna work with me? Make up your mind buddy. I don't buy it that you can feel that strong about Jeff that you want to shut him down and then go right back to brown nosing.

Did I work against you?
Or was I simply trying to convince you that whining won't amount to much. Haven't you been reading...people have been telling you to work the system.

And here I was thinking you were actually smart.

 

[Adam Block]

Well, that was your first mistake Ritchie! Smart, me? Heck I'm a fairly stupid fellow for the most part. Ask my wife and I'm flat out stupid! Shucks, I didn't even make it past the 6th grade.

Sorry I was so stupid, I guess you'll be banned for sure now!!

Adam Block

 

[Seamus Haley]

Adam, I'm not entirely certain why you felt a need to post all that, it seemed to be somewhat useless and actually damaging to your own position...

I don't really see where Ritchie ever said he disagreed with a few of the major points that have been brought up in the two currently running Kingsnake threads... Both stress that Jeff on occasion seems to be somewhat negligent in the enforcement of his TOS and in others overly strict because of his personal emotions surrounding this situation. Everyone acknowledges that this is human but they also reccognize that it's bad for Jeff, bad for Jeff's customers and bad for the industry.

The basic points Ritchie seemed to make... and Rithcie, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... Are basically compliant with yours in terms of his views about some of the situations. I don't think anyone would object if Jeff took a more even hand in the application of his rules and it seems that there isn't sufficient pressure for him... or sufficient understanding of the ultimate consequences of his actions at the moment to get that done merely by asking.

The methods you choose Adam, they're inflamatory, they're extreme... you feel a need to make personal attacks because an individual is displaying something other than ideal and unbiased business practices. Most people who agree with you won't ally themselves with you... won't want you to represent them or speak for them because of the manner in which you approach the situation. I told you that myself via e-mail just this morning in fact.

Using legitimate and less agressive or outrageous methods will be more successful long term and are the only viable solution to accomplishing the goal of getting even and unbiased treatment on kingsnake and the general protection of the industry as a whole (not using Reptile ban supporters as moderators, not linking his website to borderline beastiality news stories, etc.).

Education is the key Adam, even speaking, honest complaints or arguments used in a logical manner to show people the validity of your thoughts. This is why the language used by many others who agree with your basic points and thoughts are hesitant to agree with you in public, you're a hand grenade without a pin and nobody wants to get hit with the schrapnel if you end up going off.

You're a smart guy... I spoke with you on the phone once and found that our thoughts on many issues were nearly identical... you do need to learn that sometimes a gentle nudge is more useful than a punch in the head.