HCE-Kingsnake ad. fishy?

[screamdreams]

No offense taken until you ran off the hook just a bit...

No offense Troy but if I were to put 10 10 lots of baby normal Ball pythons side by side there is no way in hell that you would be able to pic out the 20 ball pythons that you produced or sold, I don't care how long you have doing this or how many animals you have seen or produced. Anyone who deals with ball pythons would and should say the same thing, because they know that you claims are out of this world. There is no way in hell that you could have reconized a normal out of a 20 lot, come on man that is just silly. Unless you were 100% sure that the animal in question was yours and a normal you had no business at all posting that It "MIGHT" be a normal( that is total bulls**t). You have every right to post that you sold this person normals and that you nothing about them but that is as far as it should have gone( your claims are not justified). Also just to let all of you know, Harry WHOLESALES animals, therefore requries large # of all types of animals. So let me just say something to all of you, do your research a little better and come with facts and evidence to back you s**t up or shut your damn mouths.

It was brought to my attention (from more than one person) only 2/3 days after hand-picking, packing up, and shipping out the second of two (10) lots of normal females for Harry, that there may be some questions regarding his possible hets. I, in no way called him guilty, and I did state that I could have been easily mistaken, but these weren't picked from 200 Ball Pythons from a 20 gallon tank that I just recently bought from a dealer...these were all in my personal collection, housed singly, fed, watered, and monitored on a daily basis. Did I not state in my reply "they look the same to most"?????? Did I say I could easily be mistaken??? Yes, I did, and in no way did I imply he was guilty. So back off a little. I'll leave you with this, take 10 of the females in my collection right now (none are for sale) put them w/ your said 10-10 lots, I GUARANTEE you I would pick out every single one of them. Am I Bull****ing????? Nope.

Bottom line from my end...more than a few people showed "concern" about this HCE, I sold him 2-10 lots of BP's (ALL FEMALES) over a period of a couple weeks or so. I may have crossed the line with the "looking familiar" thing earlier in my reply, but I thought that had been addressed properly by me, and others here at the BOI. Guess like you took it personally. Sounds like your a "great customer" you go to bat for your boys, I'm impressed. I do the same for mine, just minus all the cursing and typing hard...oh yeah, no offense but %!@*!!**!!!^&%%#$$@@)&*(^!!!^&##$^&%%$##!@!!@@!!!

 

[pacog69]

You are Right!

Troy... You are right foul language is not necessary for these post and I am sorry if I offened anyone. I don't doubt that you are very familiar with your animals and take great care of all of them, but I still think that Identifying a normal out of a 20 lot is a little strech, sorry and this just my opinion, which like I said at the end of my last post "some stink more than others". I was just a little heated when I was writing the reply. I can see why there are concerns about HCE/Digital Reptiles and I had them like everyone else, Like i said I did a little more research and was covinced that these guys were legit. So what everyone else thinks about them is up to whoever? Like I said earlier I am making arrangements to LOOK at their Facility and that will prove them to be legit or not. Until then I I will have to go with what I believe to be true and hope that I have made a good decision. As for the Dead Ball issue that was a hopless cause from day one. Once again I am sorry if I offened anyone and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and that is what makes this country great. Thanks.

Charles Christopher Gauch
Owner of Crazy Colored Reptiles

 

[pacog69]

Troy

Troy... Like I said, I was a little upset in the first post, nothing was directed at you. But like I said unless you were 100% sure about the animal in question it should never have been brought up. Even though you stated you were not sure and that you could be wrong(that is not what people see when they read these post, that part seems to skip by eveyone for some reason), that makes people start to wonder about things regardless of what you have said. This is how all these rumors and hearsay get started and that is what I was trying to point out. You should be 100% sure of what you are posting about because it can greatly affect someone wether it be a positive or negative outcome. Just something to think about. Thanks.

Charles Christopher Gauch aka Paco
Owner of Crazy Colored Reptiles

 

[The BoidSmith]

I can see why there are concerns about HCE/Digital Reptiles and I had them like everyone else, Like i said I did a little more research and was covinced that these guys were legit.

Paco,

If you haven't been to their place, haven't seen their animals yet, and have seen what has happen every time people have requested pictures from their animals, what "research" convinced you of them being legit? Do you know something that the rest of us don't?

Thanks.

 

[HerpVenue]

Do you know something that the rest of us don't?

Aspecial discount for brokering their animals for them?

Paco.... by the time you make your way to their "place" they will probably have pie balds by then.

Since december still no pics.
How many of his poss het pieds have been sold and still nopics.

In fact there is only one pic and you produced it.
I am wondering if that is the same pied he just bought.

 

[Wilomn]

But like I said unless you were 100% sure about the animal in question it should never have been brought up. Even though you stated you were not sure and that you could be wrong(that is not what people see when they read these post, that part seems to skip by eveyone for some reason), that makes people start to wonder about things regardless of what you have said.

The above is a direct quote from paco. How can you be 100% sure Troy can't identify one of his animals? I know for a fact that I could. How can you know 100% that I can't? If you are not 100% sure of something, paco, it should NEVER be brought up.

For the record I did see and read and take into account that Troy said he was not sure, so, ONCE AGAIN paco, you are WRONG!!!

Perhaps you should think about what you are saying and what it means, you seem to be confused.

I am glad Troy said what he did. hce has brought all of this on himself, all by himself. Where are those pictures? Why are you the only one who has one? Hmmmmm, very interesting.

I will not be buying from either of you. I know, I know, no big deal, however, I am one to voice his opinion where many do not. There has sure been a lot of foot shooting going on here lately. I hope you don't limp to long paco.

Wes Pollock

 

[E2MacPets]

It's nice to know that even when I take an assumption too far, my first impression is still right.

It's a good thing I started that inquiry on Paco or we might have taken his word as proof in favor of HCE, but now we know he's done "extensive research" (where exactly?) and more importantly spending a lot of money in a business venture that would be doomed if word got out that he was scammed. So instead he will deny it until the day he dies (or sells his remaining stock for prices that legit items would go for at least).

 

[ms_terese]

I know, I know, no big deal, however, I am one to voice his opinion where many do not.

I'll voice mine as well. I won't buy from either of them. I don't financially support people who neglect animals (Harry, that would be you) or those who do support people who neglect animals (Chris/Charles).

The scamming is an entirely different issue and one that may or may not be proven; however, the issue surrounding the big cat was enough for me.

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

Well, this certainly snowballed. Since Im the curious George that stirred the bees Ill shed some more insight..

The HCE company, Digital Rep. HCE/Paco fan club.....whomever they are directly lied to me. When emailing them from a bogus account I was sent a photo of a pied that was said to be the father of the hets I wanted....I then posted that photo on KS to see if anyone reccognized it and HCE INSTANTLY emailed me claiming it was his animal that he had just RECENTLY bought...like within a few days.

Now, for arguments sake its not a scam.....he still doesnt know what the hell is going on within his company. He also expressed to me that he wanted to know who sent the photo out because his sons or employees may be trying to deal with his animals.....personally? If it were my multi thousand dollar animals Id be stompin a mudhole in kids ass.

Craig, I can bet people are irritated with the possible situation and have vented towards you in your purchase. Dont give it much thought, the animals could very well be hets.....my actual opinion is his hets are hets and the poss. are normal.....reason being on the hets if they didnt prove out due to the dollar amount its fraud but a poss. het doesnt have to produce and the only way for that to be proven is for everyone that bought his. poss to come together and see if any were produced then take it to court as a class action suite if not. Lastly to you Craig and anyone else bent over this thread, Im looking into pieds for myself....I want to know whos honest and more than anything Id like the trade to be honest. Lynch me now but if Im right looooots of people will be glad I spoke my suspicions.

Paco/Chris......I requested references from Harry and he directly told me "We're a small down south type business and havent been doing this for very long....Ive only sold a few animals" then gave me about 8 email addys with half of which were no good, three unanswered and the one guy says "he bought from me and paid on time" The only real refernce HCE has is you to my knowledge and my knowledge is pretty good you see because Ive posted all over the web requesting info on HCE for about about eight weeks now and guess what? Nothing....nada...zip...zilch...zero.
Lets say HCE is selling exactlly what he claims they are, have you ever noticed when theres an inquiry on say Pete Kahl, Bob Clark, Prehistoric pets....ANYONE with a good reputation that their customers come out of the woodwork and praise them? Why did I not get a single praise for HCE if hes the man you say he is? Also....HCE is considering getting out of the BPs because of "Us YAHOOS".....hes selling his bred and butter instead of taking pics, explaining his side and answering questions? Fire gets hot tuck tail and run....you all but convinced me hes peddling junk when you told us that bud.


Craig and Paco....I have noticed pieds coming down by the little guys....even Pete hocks some for tight crunches, these are spuratic sales where a guy needs money. BUT when you are selling animals openly at a price NO ONE can compare to thats market destruction. If youll think back Tim Rainwater TOTALLY ruined the albino retic project...if HCEs legit, whats the difference? If a guy wants to move animals at a cheap price dont advertise the damn things, do like mainstream breeders do....email those on your contact list and tell them about the deal privately so the markets not hurt.


Lastly, I never started this thread without "research" Ive actually spent the last eight weeks looking into it, making inquiries, emails, references and looking into his suppliers. My goal in this wasnt to hang anyone, I wanted the animals but wasnt about to send that kind oif money to someone no one knew, no one would vouche for, didnt have their act together, claimed their employees and children were thieves, had no references at all, caught in several lies and couldnt even produce a $6 roll of film containing the animals in question. My suggestionwould be that anyone purchasing from him, use postal money orders.....IF its a rouge using postal money orders makes his actions a federal offense.

Good luck, Best wishes, Werd to ya moms

William Horn
Briarpatch Herps

 

[KelliH]

WaxWormFan- I must admit your feelings were correct in this situation also. Your gut instincts were right.

I still stand by my opinion of Paco being an excellent customer and a nice person to seal with. However I have changed my mind about the "het and possible het pieds" from HCE, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

 

[HerpVenue]

He is thinking about getting out of the business because of all these YAHOOS who don't know what the hell they are talking about and do little to no reasearch on things and jump to unjustified verdicts.

he is getting out of the business because of us yahoos.

To defend himself.

1. He could have posted pictures of his het for tiger retics when we asked him too.

2. He could have sent me pictures of his piebald that I have been asking for since December.



He is getting out of the business huh?

1. He is getting out of the business that is why he just bought Two ten lots of ball pythons.

2. He is getting out of the business that is why he just changed his name from Digital reptiles to HCE.

Paco when you do buy his entire collection......
I hope he send you more than just the twenty normals he just bought. and the one (1) pied he has.

Because I do not think he is getting out anytime soon.

Paco the steps he is taking lately....

Sell some normals as possibles.....
make lots of money......
Sell Your entire collection of normals to some schmuck who believes everything you say.
Then change your name AGAIN and disappear AGAIN

 

[HerpVenue]

I forgot number three

3 he is getting out of the business that is why he also just bought a piebald.

Now either HCE is lying about getting out of the business....
OR
Paco just lied about HCE getting out of business.


take your pic

 

[The BoidSmith]

reason being on the hets if they didnt prove out due to the dollar amount its fraud but a poss. het doesnt have to produce and the only way for that to be proven is for everyone that bought his. poss to come together and see if any were produced then take it to court as a class action suite if not.

I don't think that might happen. If he sells "possibles", that's what they are. In fact he is offering the guarantee that the offspring has 50% chance of being normal. In order to prove or disprove that you have to "roll the dice" hundreds of times. As of why buying a pied? By having at least one animal you can produce maybe 8-9 heteros per female; although I have never heard of a breeder using a male with 20 females, and flooding the market with possibles later.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Nobody has jumped up and offered this as an explanation about how it is that the sire of HCE's hets could have just recently been purchased, but I have a possible one. I am hesitant to say anything now, because, if I do and they are reading this thread, they may well then say "Oh yeah! That's what we meant all along!"

So, before I make any suggestions, I am challenging HCE to come forward in this thread and explain how the snake he just got also fathered his currently available possible hets. Time's running out on your reputation, Sir, and you need to explain yourself quikly to retain what little you have left!

 

[The BoidSmith]

Darin,

I have been thinking about this too. Sometimes we go through so many details that I think we might be giving people a lot of ideas. It's like those TV series that time and again show how to committ the perfect crime!

Regards.

 

[John Albrecht]

William,

Where exactly does HCE claim to be in South Carolina? I live down here right off of I95 and maybe I could pay this guy a visit to see his little down home southern business.

At least that way it could be proven if he even actually has a pied in his possession.

-John

 

[HerpVenue]

EXCELLENT.
John pay them a visit. I believe and trust your word. If you say so then it is.
According to their adds on Kingsnake....They are in South carolina.
I will go home and get their e-mails. then i will give their e-mail addy's to you. you can write them for their physical address and pay a special visit sometime SOON.

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeere you go.

Harry Eisenmann 803-548-5520
996 Cranberry Circle
Fort Mill SC 29715

William Horn
Briarpatch Herps

 

[The BoidSmith]

Any news?

Paco,

Did you have a chance to visit their place and see their animals. I'm still interested and their prices are low but now it seems as if we can only buy from them. Here's what they currently say:

feel free to make offers on groups,I want these moved quick
WHY BUY FROM OTHER DEALERS SELLING OUR ANIMALS?GET THEM STRAIT FROM US!SAVE SAVE SAVE

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

If I were a betting man I'd say the people reselling his animals are dumping them because they're figuring out they bought normals.