IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

[Chameleon Company]

Wes, I looked up "pathetic". They had your resume there .....

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Terry, I'm not trying to condemn you or others here. The poster on this forum are a very small part of what makes the BOI such a valuable tool, it's the viewing public, buying public, and possibly the not buying public that matters here.

There are some that have been through IBD and have destroyed whole collectons because of it. Pretending it does not exist is not only bad business but extremely irresponsible.

First off Allen wont come on here because of the people who post here .Second condem me if you like ,call me names or whatever,it doesnt bother me.I have owned the Dixie Reptile Show for 11 years.There is no good way to handle this.I have been to Allens house and facility and he comes to my show.I have not had a problem with him or his animals so far.If I barred every vendor on suspicion the show would shut down.I am concerned about this but my actions will not be based on the B.O.I. I suggest any of you to call Allen and Talk with him instead of trying to destroy him here. Terry

 

[Cat_72]

I tried talking to Allen through PM.........even gave him the benefit of the doubt until I saw proof that he flat out LIED to me. I don't know why he would be any more truthful over the phone.

Terry, you ask for proof that Allen has IBD in his animals now? We have proof that an animal that came from Allen DID have IBD, thereforeI ask for proof that he does NOT have it in any of his animals now. THe burden of proof is not up to us....HE is the one with the animals in his possession. Can we order vet work done on them? No. Only ALLEN himself can provide proof either way.....and he has already shown that he's not going to do that.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Cathy, I did speak with Allen by phone when this all began. and I found him pleasant and engaging. I try to weigh my opinions on fact and not pleasant phone chit chat.

Ron (aitrix) has presented facts to this situation. And I am with Jim on this one (yeah I know shoot me know) but it is so difficult in decided what to do. I know what I did when faced with a similar challenge, but, it is up to each seller to make their choices.

 

[Cat_72]

Laura, I understand completely what you are saying.....but dang, to just go on like nothing happened? And my PMs with Allen were very pleasant as well, as were the emails between myself and Terry. Terry has always been upfront with me, but I cannot say the same about Allen.

Yes, people choose to handle things differently, but if I were in Allen's shoes, I couldn't sleep at night not knowing.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Laura, I understand completely what you are saying.....but dang, to just go on like nothing happened? And my PMs with Allen were very pleasant as well, as were the emails between myself and Terry. Terry has always been upfront with me, but I cannot say the same about Allen.

Yes, people choose to handle things differently, but if I were in Allen's shoes, I couldn't sleep at night not knowing.

 

[BryonsBoas]

The only thing I'm not getting is how there would be legal probs for a promoter to deny a vendor to attend his show. Temp or permanant ban or just not wanting them there. I don't do show promoting so in the dark here but I would imagine unless there is a contract involved between the vendor and promoter the promoter can / could decide who vends and who don't. If someone could clarify it would be great.

First off Allen wont come on here because of the people who post here

Allen won't come here because the feeble excuses stopped working and he knows hes wrong.

If I barred every vendor on suspicion the show would shut down.I am concerned about this but my actions will not be based on the B.O.I.

Suspicion? The vet report is suspicious? How about the YELLOW BIZ CARD that ALLEN put on HIS table but didn't know he had them. Even blamed that on his wife. Thats suspicious. Don't deny anyone anything because of the BOI , do what you need to do based on the evidence that was brought to the BOI. If you don't get it now you never will. To be honest I'm getting the feeling that you just don't want to get it.

I suggest any of you to call Allen and Talk with him instead of trying to destroy him here. Terry

Read the posts from those who have called him, it was nothing but smoke , mirrors and redirection to buy time to do absolutely nothing. Except dump animals.

 

[hill4803]

I have vended at Terry's Dixie Show (sporadically)....as a matter of fact, last summer he was so kind as to place me next to Allen's table. Terry was well aware that I did not like Allen and had posted on the thread Bryon started last summer about Allen's "business". Thanks Terry! With that being said, Terry isn't likely to ban any vender from this rather small show, Allen usually has a couple of tables and the money from the table charges is too important.

It was interesting watching other venders make trades with Allen during the show. I wouldn't trade 4 day old vomit for anything Allen had on his tables, but to each his own.

I am so glad I am getting away from the "business" side of this hobby!
BTW...hiya Bry, drop me an email next time you're in the ATL!

 

[The BoidSmith]

Terry,

From your previous posts it’s obvious that you are not willing to change your stance. Could we at least arrive to a common ground where we can agree about the seriousness of this disease? You have one of your shows in less than two weeks. Could you at least incorporate some of the preventive measures other shows have taken already? How about including some free hand disinfectant in your vendor’s packets? Consider it a minimum investment and a self-promotion of your show. There’s no need to explain why you are doing it or mention any names. Simply state it’s a sanitary precaution for both the animals and people alike. Believe me; it will be much appreciated by the attending public as it will show that you care. We know IBD is viral in origin and the disinfectant may or may not have the intended effect. But at least you will create the awareness among those that attend that sanitary precautions are important when handling live reptiles. Could we arrive to at least that sort of understanding?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Good stuff Dan !

 

[Dixie Reptiles]

I have kept hand disinfectant at my table for years,and most of my vendors do tone more take on this with a few questions.When Ron bought the sick boa he also bought one or two more what is the status on them? Wouldnt the other boas be sick also if all of Allens stock is infected.I asked for the contact info for the vet that said I think its I.B.D about the spider and still dont have it.My problem with this is one boa that may or may not have come from Allen,one spider that tested negative that allen claims he did sell but the buyer waited some time before letting him know of a problem.And also force or assist feeding should only be done by experianced keepers.

 

[Bill & Amy]

I have kept hand disinfectant at my table for years,and most of my vendors do tone more take on this with a few questions.When Ron bought the sick boa he also bought one or two more what is the status on them? Wouldnt the other boas be sick also if all of Allens stock is infected.I asked for the contact info for the vet that said I think its I.B.D about the spider and still dont have it.My problem with this is one boa that may or may not have come from Allen,one spider that tested negative that allen claims he did sell but the buyer waited some time before letting him know of a problem.And also force or assist feeding should only be done by experianced keepers.

Allen also said he was acquiring animals from the same litter to be tested, where are his results?

 

[Wilomn]

terry, really, must you?

Inconclusive is NOT the same as negative.

THIS is why some here, me in particular, think you are allen's tool.

Do the right thing, make allen prove he does NOT have IBD.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Terry,

As for your comment:

Originally Posted by Dixie Reptiles
One more take on this with a few questions.When Ron bought the sick boa he also bought one or two more what is the status on them? Wouldnt the other boas be sick also if all of Allens stock is infected.

You may find the link below very informative.

http://sacs.vetmed.ufl.edu/wildlife/IBDINFO.html

In it you will find the following quote:

Control: Identify infected snakes and euthanatize. All new snakes should be quarantined for minimally 90 days before introduction into an established collection. Recommendations for boas is 6 month quarantine period. Mite control and elimination is essential. Fibroglass cages of infected snakes should be cleaned with chlorox and left out in the sun to dry before being used for other snakes. Wooden cages, unless sealed with urethane or some other sealeant should be discarded. (emphasis added)

In simple terms this means that in boas you have to wait no less than 6 months before they may show any signs of IBD.

Regards.

 

[Bill & Amy]

Here is the quote from Allen about testing the animals from the other thread.

On a side note I am looking into buying or trading for one of the boas from that litter to have tested for the IBD virius. I will be posting the results of the test once I have them.
Allen Belcher

We have never seen any of these results, don't tell me he is afraid to come here and post the results. If he had results that proved they didn't have IBD he would have posted them. As far as we know he never had any tests done.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Wes.

As quoted from Wilomn:
THIS is why some here, me in particular, think you are allen's tool

If you had a reputation here of being level-headed and reasonable on discussions, even the petty referral to Terry as "Allen's tool" might carry some consideration. Wake up. Your reputation is that of being the first in a thread to "sling poo", whose first posts are usually laced with the usual "dumbASS" etc stupidities. How many different threads here do respected members need to point this out? How many times do you need to be banned? You're 54 years old now Wes. When do the men in your clan finally mature ?

 

[Wilomn]

Here is the quote from Allen about testing the animals from the other thread.



We have never seen any of these results, don't tell me he is afraid to come here and post the results. If he had results that proved they didn't have IBD he would have posted them. As far as we know he never had any tests done.

It's also likely that the results, IF any tests were ever taken at all, came back POSITIVE.

Positive for those who are wondering, terry, means that they HAVE, are carriers OF, will pass ON, IBD.

I seriously doubt allen would be here saying his animals tested positive but I have NO doubt that he'd be here with PROOF IF they tested negative.

 

[gmherps]

Jim, weren't you one of the first people to come to allen's defense when the whole belcher thing came up with Bryon's pics? Poo slinging? Look in the mirror man.

 

[Rakshasanyc]

The only thing I'm not getting is how there would be legal probs for a promoter to deny a vendor to attend his show. Temp or permanant ban or just not wanting them there. I don't do show promoting so in the dark here but I would imagine unless there is a contract involved between the vendor and promoter the promoter can / could decide who vends and who don't. If someone could clarify it would be great.

If I were making a living selling boids and got shut out of selling at a show because of a false IBD accusation, I might very well respond with a lawsuit alleging slander - and if the promoter told ANYONE that s/he had refused me a table because of IBD, s/he would certainly be one of the named parties. And even if s/he won the case, s/he would almost certainly be out a few thousand dollars in legal fees.

I'd add that the people running a show have no way of knowing who does or does not have IBD-infected snakes. How do they know that the "IBD" claim isn't just somebody with an axe to grind? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recreate a "vet report" using Photoshop or Quark: what level of due diligence do you expect from someone running a reptile show?

At the shows I've attended, I've signed a waiver upon entry stating that I should follow proper quarantine procedures with any animal purchased and the Expo is not liable for the health or lack thereof of anything I buy. What this means is they're off the hook: they have nothing to lose should I buy a snake which kills my collection. OTOH, refusing a table to someone because of IBD accusations costs them real money and puts them at some legal risk. From that point of view it's a no-brainer.

Note that I'm not commenting on the truth of the original allegations: IMO it's pretty clear that the collection in question is infested with IBD. All I'm saying is that from the point of view of someone running an exhibit this question isn't nearly so clear-cut as it might seem.

 

[Bill & Amy]

If I were making a living selling boids and got shut out of selling at a show because of a false IBD accusation, I might very well respond with a lawsuit alleging slander - and if the promoter told ANYONE that s/he had refused me a table because of IBD, s/he would certainly be one of the named parties. And even if s/he won the case, s/he would almost certainly be out a few thousand dollars in legal fees.

I'd add that the people running a show have no way of knowing who does or does not have IBD-infected snakes. How do they know that the "IBD" claim isn't just somebody with an axe to grind? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recreate a "vet report" using Photoshop or Quark: what level of due diligence do you expect from someone running a reptile show?

At the shows I've attended, I've signed a waiver upon entry stating that I should follow proper quarantine procedures with any animal purchased and the Expo is not liable for the health or lack thereof of anything I buy. What this means is they're off the hook: they have nothing to lose should I buy a snake which kills my collection. OTOH, refusing a table to someone because of IBD accusations costs them real money and puts them at some legal risk. From that point of view it's a no-brainer.

Note that I'm not commenting on the truth of the original allegations: IMO it's pretty clear that the collection in question is infested with IBD. All I'm saying is that from the point of view of someone running an exhibit this question isn't nearly so clear-cut as it might seem.

Selling animals at a show is a priveledge and not a right. Kinda like "we refuse the right to deny service to anyone". Like Terry has stated:

I look at every table at my show before it opens and will have animals removed if they do not look outwardly healthy.I have also permanently barred vendors for this problem.

He already acknowledged you can do it if he wants to.