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IBD Allen belcher/Big daddys wholesale

If someone was dumb enough to make a public scene out of " You can't be here because so&so said you had a virus" , then yeah I could see something come out of that. If someone brought a vet report that could be verified as original with the vet and solid evidence that the animal came from that vendor , then thats something else entirely.

Only an idiot would handle that mess in public in front of an audience. For anyone to accuse anyone else of anything in a situation such as a show setting without anything to back it up then they should have their butt handed to them. I would imagine that if a vendor was informed that he wouldn't be allowed to vend the show it would be handled by phone or e-mail. If that vendor is already at the show and the evidence comes to light , can be verified , then where does that leave the promoter? Should he/she keep their mouth shut or should they ask the vendor to leave , show why and inform the other vendors of the possible health risk to their animals.


Selling animals at a show is a priveledge and not a right. Kinda like "we refuse the right to deny service to anyone".
Click to expand...

Thats what I was thinking. Unless there was some legal & binding contract I'm not seeing where a promoter can't let someone vend for any reason.
 
Bill and Amy ..... Bryon .... etc,
Selling animals at a show is a privilege and not a right. Kinda like "we refuse the right to deny service to anyone".

Rak(alphabet) pointed it out pretty well. Suggest you go the the websites for the Secretary's of State in your given states. Start with all statutes and opinions about "restraint of trade". Then give "libel" a look. Then, if and when you ever run a show, or even a business with legal employees, you will also have gained some knowledge about "due process" regarding "firing", denial of what you call a "privilege" previously granted, etc. Then drop a few $K on legal advice, as in all things civil, and ounce of prevention is worth many dollars of cure. OBTW, legal statutes trump TOS every time.

GM, I really love the floor-to-ceiling mirrors the best :thumbsup:
 
Still ongoing...

All in all I am suprised to see this is still going on. If Allen was a good business man and a good person, he would take all steps neccesary to clear his name, or clean up any problems he may have. Whether we assume all these allegations are false or not, enough people believe them to be true and Allen should handle it accordingly. Also if Allen is a stand up guy, Terry should be able to ask him to provide proof before coming to another of his shows, without Allen even questioning it. The problem here is with Allen not being pro active enough and with people like Terry coming in here acting objective, but clearly not as open minded as he says. This is nothing personal, as I have had no dealings with either, but it's clear to me that there is not enough being done. The unfortunate thing is that for some reason this business seems to bring along so many scumbags. If you want to turn a quick profit, do it with something that isnt alive. All the good guys suffer because of others reputations. I still try to have some faith in people, but you really can't anymore. I think Allen needs to come on here and just put up one post telling us a course of action, and when it will be done, and in the mean time he needs to stop selling reptiles. I understand this is his how he makes his living, but if he doesnt do anything about it soon enough he will lose his business one way or another. Also all these enablers like Terry and others need to be stopped. I wont go to a show where this disease is suspected, not enough is conclusively known about it to know how it can spread. You take a risk going to any show, and it is sad it must be this way, but no one wants to go to a show where there is an increased risk. Now that I have been super redundant I will stop. Just figured I would give my opinion, as useless as it may be. Dan.
 
Shows are private and for profit. It is not government funded and open to all. Should terry choose to do the right thing, he could.

It's as simple as that.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Bill and Amy ..... Bryon .... etc,
Selling animals at a show is a privilege and not a right. Kinda like "we refuse the right to deny service to anyone".

Rak(alphabet) pointed it out pretty well. Suggest you go the the websites for the Secretary's of State in your given states. Start with all statutes and opinions about "restraint of trade". Then give "libel" a look. Then, if and when you ever run a show, or even a business with legal employees, you will also have gained some knowledge about "due process" regarding "firing", denial of what you call a "privilege" previously granted, etc. Then drop a few $K on legal advice, as in all things civil, and ounce of prevention is worth many dollars of cure. OBTW, legal statutes trump TOS every time.

GM, I really love the floor-to-ceiling mirrors the best :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I will get on that right away. :rolleyes: (just in case you can't tell that is the sarcasm smiley).
 
I am going to do the right thing and get off this site full of experts,I have a life out side the B.O.I.Terry
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
I am going to do the right thing and get off this site full of experts,I have a life out side the B.O.I.Terry
Click to expand...
Tuck tail and run.

It's far easier than doing what you know you should.
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
I am going to do the right thing and get off this site full of experts,I have a life out side the B.O.I.Terry
Click to expand...
Terry, With all due respect these experts as you call them, are the ones lining your pockets with that jingle you seem so fond of, Just on another note what would you do if you sold all those tables and because of Allen being on your vendor list, People don't come ? would you be refunding for all those tables ? or would just say thats life ?
 
I have worked with and Promoted most of all types of shows except reptile and I can tell you that when someone contacts us about renting space or table WE decide if we want them or not it is up to the promoter to book them or not
 
Wilomn said:
I seriously doubt allen would be here saying his animals tested positive but I have NO doubt that he'd be here with PROOF IF they tested negative.
Click to expand...
This is a very valid point and based on his actions to date I'd have to agree. If he had some negative tests to show, he would be broadcasting them all over the place.
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
And by the way Ron I do come to Hamburg on business from time to time.So I will let you know next time I come up.Terry
Click to expand...

Please do. Doubt you ever will, but please do, [email protected]. I am almost shaking, dont forget your osteoporosis meds old man. Ron
 
Dixie Reptiles said:
I have kept hand disinfectant at my table for years,and most of my vendors do too_One more take on this with a few questions.When Ron bought the sick boa he also bought one or two more what is the status on them? Wouldnt the other boas be sick also if all of Allens stock is infected.I asked for the contact info for the vet that said I think its I.B.D about the spider and still dont have it.My problem with this is one boa that may or may not have come from Allen,one spider that tested negative that allen claims he did sell but the buyer waited some time before letting him know of a problem.And also force or assist feeding should only be done by experianced keepers.
Click to expand...


The other two animals are not mine to have a say in what to do with them, Plus the other two people are not aware of the disease like i am, nor do they really care to spend the 200 bucks on a $50 snake, And might i add their ONLY snake. Oh and one more thing they are both college students who are happy as a pig in crap to have money for a slice of pizza let alone 200 dollars for a test which does absolutely nothing as far as they are concerned. I had to MAKE my brother give his away for the saftey of my collection and he is 200 miles away from me. In return i bought him a nice snake from a GOOD breeder along with a bucket, scrub pad, and a gallon of bleach. If and when either one dies, I have instructed the owners to have the best of the available tests (organ pathologys) done at my expense. So those results will be coming in the future. But in the mean time (broken record) where is allens single test to contest mine?
 
help me out

Unfortunately I skipped through about 30 pages or so but I want to know if I missed something.

The snake died..it apparently had IBD.
Allen offered a reffund immediately.
All of a sudden this wasn't good enough so a thread was started here on the BOI.

Has ANYONE shown proof that this came from Allen's facility?
Sorry if I missed this but after a while of reading all the BS from people with nothing constructive to say I thought I would skip to the end
Has anyone come forward with any other animals from Allen showing signs of IBD or have died from IBD?
I must be missing something because I don't get it.
If no other animals from him are sick and there is no proof the animal contrated this illness while in Allen's care how can he be condemmened for continuing to sell healthy animals?
Please direct me to any proof I may have missed.
 
I must add

This is still America.
Innocent until proved guilty.
I went back and read more.
The original animal was purchased in August.
If Allen's facility and animals had IBD there would be hundreds of reports of sick animals by now.
There simply has not been ANY other animals from Allen shown to have IBD.
There has been absolutely no proof that the original animal contracted IBD at Allen's facility.
Why should Allen come here and try to prove anything to the "angry mob".
The fact that NO other animals, from Allen, have been shown to have IBD in the last 3 1/2 to 4 months seems to be proof in and of itself.
A non feeder or problem feeder is irrelevant to the issue.
Anyone who has kept, bred or worked with any number of snakes knows there are problem feeders and problems can arise at any time for no apparent reason.
And before anyone comes on here calling me names and accusing me of being "Allen's Tool" let me tell you I have never met him or bought anything from him. Or anyone else posting here.
I just can't quite understand why vendors should ban him and why he should deffend an unsubstantiated accusation or why any vendor not willing to ban him should be condemned.
 
draybar said:
Unfortunately I skipped through about 30 pages or so but I want to know if I missed something.

The snake died..it apparently had IBD.
Allen offered a reffund immediately.
All of a sudden this wasn't good enough so a thread was started here on the BOI.

Has ANYONE shown proof that this came from Allen's facility?
Sorry if I missed this but after a while of reading all the BS from people with nothing constructive to say I thought I would skip to the end
Has anyone come forward with any other animals from Allen showing signs of IBD or have died from IBD?
I must be missing something because I don't get it.
If no other animals from him are sick and there is no proof the animal contrated this illness while in Allen's care how can he be condemmened for continuing to sell healthy animals?
Please direct me to any proof I may have missed.
Click to expand...


I really wish I had time to look for your evidence, but it will take you the same amount of time to read it as it will for anyone to look for it. :shrug01:
 
as you can see from my second post

I went back and read and still found no proof.
All I found was the vet report on the original animal and even that didn't prove it was contracted from Allen's facility.
I also found no proof of any animals from Allen having IBD
sorry can't find it.
 
draybar said:
If Allen's facility and animals had IBD there would be hundreds of reports of sick animals by now.
Click to expand...

How do you know there hasn't been more animals that have dies at his facility? If he wanted to keep it "secret" I am sure he could.

draybar said:
There has been absolutely no proof that the original animal contracted IBD at Allen's facility.
Click to expand...

What do you want for proof? Did you read the part with the yellow business card?

draybar said:
Why should Allen come here and try to prove anything to the "angry mob".
The fact that NO other animals, from Allen, have been shown to have IBD in the last 3 1/2 to 4 months seems to be proof in and of itself.
Click to expand...

Boas can carry the disease for a LONG time with no symptoms.

draybar said:
A non feeder or problem feeder is irrelevant to the issue.
Anyone who has kept, bred or worked with any number of snakes knows there are problem feeders and problems can arise at any time for no apparent reason.
Click to expand...

Correct, but there was a test performed on the boa that came back as IBD.

I just can't quite understand why vendors should ban him and why he should deffend an unsubstantiated accusation or why any vendor not willing to ban him should be condemned.[/QUOTE]

Positive test for IBD is not a joke to take lightly and refusing to test his animals and "dumping" animals is a poor business practice.
 
Bill,
There's some "probables" about Allen having sold an animal with IBD. While I agree that there is plenty here for people to not want to buy from him, there's no proof to a legal standard. The dumping etc. is conjecture.
 
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