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Inquiry: Dachiu

varnyard said:
Her Canadian distribiter Jim Dike, JimD, AKA J&J Reptiles, admitted importing Dachiu dragons into Canada last year.
He claims Canada knows that he is doing it.

Jim O, you need to do some reading in the other thread, you might want to catch up a bit.
Click to expand...
Bobby,

Don't make this about me. I've read every post in that thread. You screwed up all by your lonesome. Last year was 2006. The testing was inn 2007 and did not include dragons that were exported, at least if my reading comprehension skills are still at grade school level. I'm asking about your rumor from 2002. Stop dodging the question and name your source.
 
Jim O said:
So is virtually everyone on this page:

http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=51

Why is Vickie worse than all of them?

Bobby, it seems you are letting your injured pride get in the way of your usual rational thought processes. I understand that you believe that you were "played" but in the end you made the choice, many times, to hit that submit button. There is no real hard proof that her beardies are carry a "killing virus". They probably carry adenovirus like you and I probably also do. After all, her babies are thriving and they do carry a six week health guarantee There are only a few anecdotal reports of babies dying from it. I guarantee that I can culture killer bacteria off multiple sites on your body. Does that mean you shouldn't have contact with other humans?
I'm not defending anyone here, just trying to make the point that some other relatively cool headed people have made that we really do not know how significant an issue this is.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim for pointing out something that has gotten lost in the mix :thumbsup:
 
puppytoes72 said:
VERY TRUE! jim o you need to do some reading before you jump to conclusions on this thread.
Click to expand...
Let me make myself very clear. If someone posts "rumor has it" I would not expect the other readers to go sift through 100's of posts trying to verify if said "rumor" had any validity to it. I sure as hell am not going to. It was posted in THIS thread and needs to be backed up in THIS thread. Otherwise, warning points will be issued.
 
Her test results are in the beginning of this thread.

Jim O, at least if my reading comprehension skills are still at grade school level.
Click to expand...

OK, I have already posted it. :rolleyes:
 
DThomas said:
Let me make myself very clear. If someone posts "rumor has it" I would not expect the other readers to go sift through 100's of posts trying to verify if said "rumor" had any validity to it. I sure as hell am not going to. It was posted in THIS thread and needs to be backed up in THIS thread. Otherwise, warning points will be issued.
Click to expand...
of course you would point ME out on this.maybe a mod can combine the threads then?starting from where dachiu posted her results?i will find the page for you if you would like.there is alot of important info in the other thread that really belongs over here.
 
Dennis, give me a minute here and please do not issue warning points to anyone, I am working up this answer and I need to check a lot of references so it is all correct, this goes back many years and I want to make sure I have it absolutely correct
 
puppytoes72 said:
of course you would point ME out on this.maybe a mod can combine the threads then?starting from where dachiu posted her results?i will find the page for you if you would like.there is alot of important info in the other thread that really belongs over here.
Click to expand...
Of course I pointed you out. You were the one strongly telling someone to go wade through 100's of posts to seek out information that should have been provided with the post in question.

Threads on the BOI stay forever, in their current form. Also, there is already a link in this thread to that spot, provided by you no less.


Everyone's emotions are running very high at the moment. I would suggest everyone think a second longer prior to hitting the submit button. Keep going on the current course and you all will be lynching each other when in reality you should be banding together in the hopes of getting a handle on this virus.
 
Jim O said:
Bobby, calm down. You have a source? Name it. Otherwise this is "anonymous third party information" that does not belong on the BOI and you know it.

Emotions are obviously running very high on the part of many here. Let's try to stick to the facts folks, please. Comments like "this is all about the money" don't really help. If this is a full time job for a breeder (as it is for many here) it is about the money as that is how they pay their mortgages and buy groceries. No harm in a business making a profit. Unethical behavior, if that occurred, is a different issue entirely.
Click to expand...

Agreed, Jim. The evidence so far would suggest that most AV positive dragons can reproduce, and have healthy lives.

There is likely more than one strain, and some strains may be more virulent than others, but the research is still pending. Nobody knows for sure.

More than anything, I believe this thread serves to demonstrate how people can be manipulated with half - truths.

And also, that there is no shortage of people willing to use the situation to their own advantage.

I don't breed beardies, and have no dog in this fight. In the end, for me, this issue is not about AV, but rather the character of the individuals who use it as a soapbox.
 
varnyard said:
CheriS, told her about it in 2002.
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight. Cheri S told her "about" the virus in 2002 and then you infer from that she (Vickie) has known she has had the virus since 2002?. As far as I can see she first tested in 2007. And as far as I can tell from all of the posts, there was no reason to screen all dragons in 2002 just because she "knew" the virus existed.


Wilomn said:
I disagree JimO. Given the numbers of animals they produce, the lies they have told, the lengths they have gone to in order to downplay this, I think I am well within reason to make such statements as I did.
Click to expand...
No Wes. You are, to use your own term, ASSuming. They may produce a lot of animals but you have no idea how many they export to the countries that you mentioned (France and Japan), and no idea that AV was not already present in those places. There is no literature that I am aware of on those countries but would be interested in any that you could point me to that support your contention.


puppytoes72 said:
jim o,we are talking about the sneakiness,and the devious ways vicky is selling the beardies and what she DOESNT state on her website.yes,alot of other breeders have adeno in their colony but here in this thread we are talking about vicky and rob dachiu.have you read the entire thread that we linked?have you seen the way things have transpired?its absolutely discusting
Click to expand...
You have a right to this opinion and this is a valid point for discussion. But...statements like those Bobby is making in big bold red letters, or accusations like Wes is making without factual support is also wrong, and counterproductive.

I have no horse in this race. I just have a few pet beardies and have no plans to breed them. In a perfect world I think that all large breeders should test and post their results. The problem is that there are too many dishonest people in this business/hobby. Just read the BOI if you doubt it. Posting definite positive results may show one's integrity but it's a bell that cannot be un-rung. Unscrupulous dealers will claim negative tests and put those with integrity at a disadvantage. Whether that is a motivation for the large breeders, including the Dachius and others not to test is only a matter of speculation. Does it make it right or wrong? I don't know and at this point, I don't care. If and when more is ever known it may matter more, but at this point, no matter who the source, I would consider any dragon that I bought to be carrying AV, even if it came from someone claiming to have a negative colony.
 
DThomas said:
Of course I pointed you out. You were the one strongly telling someone to go wade through 100's of posts to seek out information that should have been provided with the post in question.

Threads on the BOI stay forever, in their current form. Also, there is already a link in this thread to that spot, provided by you no less.


Everyone's emotions are running very high at the moment. I would suggest everyone think a second longer prior to hitting the submit button. Keep going on the current course and you all will be lynching each other when in reality you should be banding together in the hopes of getting a handle on this virus.
Click to expand...
i never said"rumor has it"that was someone else,varnyard i believe.and yes i believe on page 2 i posted the link to the page that vicky dachiu has her test results on and i copy/pasted the disclaimer she has on her website .but dont worry,i wont suggest to anyone else to read all the important info in the other thread.
 
Jim O said:
So is virtually everyone on this page:

http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=51

Why is Vickie worse than all of them?

Bobby, it seems you are letting your injured pride get in the way of your usual rational thought processes. I understand that you believe that you were "played" but in the end you made the choice, many times, to hit that submit button. There is no real hard proof that her beardies are carry a "killing virus". They probably carry adenovirus like you and I probably also do. After all, her babies are thriving and they do carry a six week health guarantee There are only a few anecdotal reports of babies dying from it. I guarantee that I can culture killer bacteria off multiple sites on your body. Does that mean you shouldn't have contact with other humans?

I'm not defending anyone here, just trying to make the point that some other relatively cool headed people have made that we really do not know how significant an issue this is.
Click to expand...

IMO Vickie is worse because unlike all those KS people, she's the one who, ON THIS FORUM, started winding people up to attack people who have negative test results by using her influence and reputation to convince other people that "people" are lying or withholding information.
I'll state the obvious, when asked why she was questioning my credibility, her reasoning was that "she called me and I did not return her calls". The post is still on the other thread. The TRUTH is that she launched an attack on me and didn't try to call me until 3 days later. That's simply not right.
Another couple facts:
A) no one who has ever done business with me has ever had any issues with me, no matter if I was the buyer or the seller.
B) I talked openly in the BD forum for months about my testing.
C) while there is some controversy over which exact strain of AV is responsible for killing baby beardies, there is no doubt that at least one strain does, and the researchers have said that positive dragons should NOT be bred.
D) I'm not a bad guy, I didn't ignore any questions or phone calls, I didn't avoid any questions or calls even if the end result was a lot of stress and lost sleep.

Yes, Bobby made the choice to believe a fellow moderator, probably because of her position and reputation. He also said he'd admit if he was wrong and he did. We all make decisions sometimes based on reputation.
 
Yes Jim O, CheriS is getting a bunch of old info on this even as we speak. She called me, I just got off the phone with her.
 
Yes JimO, I am ASSuming. I am basing my ASSumption on a couple of statements by dachiu.

She admits to lying. She ASSumes she has it in her lizards. How far a jump is it to ASSume she has sold AV "free" lizards to her overseas buyers?

I feel certain she has. I have said so and posted my reasons for my feelings. I've been wrong before but don't think I am this time. It fits her modis operandi.
 
jim o:i agree,we can not put all the blame on dachiu for spreading adeno to canada,japan,ect....because who knows who else sells beardies to those countries but they certainly arent helping matters especially when they know they have adeno.we are only asking that they disclose this info to buyers and take that bogus disclaimer off their site
 
Guys, Stop!! Lets keep this thread on the facts. Lets wait on this info, this thread is not going anywhere.
 
varnyard said:
Yes Jim O, CheriS is getting a bunch of old info on this even as we speak. She called me, I just got off the phone with her.
Click to expand...
That's fine. I am still interested in knowing how Cheri would have known that it was present in Vickie's animals in 2002 but I am willing to listen.




Wilomn said:
Yes JimO, I am ASSuming. I am basing my ASSumption on a couple of statements by dachiu.

She admits to lying. She ASSumes she has it in her lizards. How far a jump is it to ASSume she has sold AV "free" lizards to her overseas buyers?

I feel certain she has. I have said so and posted my reasons for my feelings. I've been wrong before but don't think I am this time. It fits her modis operandi.
Click to expand...
This is still a far cry from
This is most likely a world wide condition due in NO small part to the uncaring actions of vicki and rob dachiu.
Click to expand...
I am not disputing whether they shipped animals with AV. What I would contend is there is no way to know if they had any role in causing "a world wide condition" or that they did it knowingly. Those are my points. If they started shipping infected dragons ten years ago, long before even that 2002 date, how can they be faulted? And even if they did it after, we still do not know how significant this really is. Character aside, and I hear what people are saying, I am still not convinced that this is a huge issue. Time may prove me wrong, but at this point there is no hard evidence.
 
IF there are so very many postives here in the USA, why would there be fewer elsewhere in the world?

IF one of the larger breeders is admittedly selling dragons that she is sure are carrying AV, how can you not think that the spread has gone worldwide in no small part because of vicki?

She may not be the only one at fault, I've never claimed she was.

SHE however, had proven her self quite the lying scumbag willing to lie and falsely accuse others.

I can't see her caring about the world market when she cares so little for the one in her own backyard.
 
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