Inquiry, Denise Latanzi AKA, Denisebme www.Calidragons.com

[varnyard]

You bet Cheri!! I missed that one!!

So Jim, were did you get your info? Everyone knows were mine came from.

Bobby posted
Quote:
I am sorry to hear of the loss of your dragons due to someone giving you the wrong information, I might add without them having any facts.

For those that do not know this, someone told her she needed to euthanize/kill her infected dragons, she took that person's advice. IMO, it is very sad when people like the one that told you to do that makes things up, it also does nothing but hurt us and our hobby.

you responded

JimD: Quote:
Worst thing about this is that person doesn't seem to show up and answer anyones questions. This person is actively reading all of whats going on but never steps up and says anything.

 

[varnyard]

JimD: Quote:
Worst thing about this is that person doesn't seem to show up and answer anyones questions. This person is actively reading all of whats going on but never steps up and says anything.

I would not be so sure about that, looks to me like she just said a bunch!!!

 

[Stardust]

Cheri was being referred to here? Cheri Smith?

Although I haven't talked to her recently I have had the privilege to be a mod with her on an old forum and we would talk in great detail over BD reports and findings. There is no way I can believe that she would just say that. I can not even think of all the diseased we used to discuss and researched and asked for the others opinions or if one was reading something correctly or not, this just blows my mind.
There are a few people I have spoken with at length and for years, she would be one of them and I would whole heartedly defend her good name.
Now I remember why I chose to stay away from all this drama a couple of years ago.

 

[varnyard]

Cheri was being referred to here? Cheri Smith?

Although I haven't talked to her recently I have had the privilege to be a mod with her on an old forum and we would talk in great detail over BD reports and findings. There is no way I can believe that she would just say that. I can not even think of all the diseased we used to discuss and researched and asked for the others opinions or if one was reading something correctly or not, this just blows my mind.
There are a few people I have spoken with at length and for years, she would be one of them and I would whole heartedly defend her good name.
Now I remember why I chose to stay away from all this drama a couple of years ago.

It was one and and the same CheriS, however knowing what I know I agree with your post 100%.

 

[DaremoAlpha]

Ok looks like I am the only other Canadian here this time and strangly enough I have had a few years of very good transactions with JimD here so I am going to assume that will make me a bad guy right away.
Anyway the biggest concern in my eyes is when Denise said that testing was approx 1200 at a time....aside from the 3 that I have seen say they tested or are looking to get animals tested....are any of the other big suppliers looking into it as well that anybody knows of ?

Denise you have not really posted anything hardcopy publicly about the tests and really I support that frame of mind actually as I am a photoeditor and have enough skills that I could make water marks and other identifiers dissappear and if a truck driver can do it then people who are really good would be able to use the results for themselves so keeping actual copies to yourself is very good.

Bobby Hill ... I only know you from advice you have given me for my tegu's. But from what I have seen of your energy here maybe you could work with these people to find solid places to test because if more breeders test maybe things will be better for everybody with Beardie hobbies.

I have seen this thread from start to current and I can't believe the number of misreads that people flame of on for the sake of flaming when there is more constructive stuff needing to be done and with the number of resources here there is no reason not to be doing things more level headed.

Jim just let it go ... everybody errr most everybody has lost site of the bigger picture and just wants to name call now.

For the record my name is Darren Warling and I am a hobbist who owns water dragons and tegus. I have much respect for most of the level headed people here who have stated things in ways that some of us learn from and to those people ... THANK YOU

Everybody getting tests done maybe just post some quotes from each persons like if they have a conclusion statement ( no scans ) might drop some of the flames and finger pointing.

Good night

 

[DaremoAlpha]

Anyway the biggest concern in my eyes is when Denise said that testing was approx 1200 at a time....aside from the 3 that I have seen say they tested or are looking to get animals tested....are any of the other big suppliers looking into it as well that anybody knows of ?

Sorry forgot to add "or are the big dealers not willing to part with the huge sums of cash it appears Denise has ? "

When I reread my statement it just did not make sense hehe

Again Good Night

 

[Denisebme]

Sorry forgot to add "or are the big dealers not willing to part with the huge sums of cash it appears Denise has ? "

When I reread my statement it just did not make sense hehe

Again Good Night

I think that the cost of testing is a big smoke screen. You can get the tests for around $25 if you want to go the Fecal EM testing route. Money might be an issue, but if you make your living selling beardies, its a legitimate cost of doing business and its still better to know than not know.
Someone sent me an email earlier today and asked if I thought that testing every baby from negative parents was necessary. I had about 3 hours on the freeway to think about it, and I asked the vet while I was there, and the bottom line is that I don't know. I don't have any babies right now, so I'm just thankful it isn't an issue I've had to deal with. I guess in the end, I do whatever my customer requested, if they wanted the baby tested and they were willing to wait, I'd test them. If not, right now, I have no clue if its necessary or not, and its one issue that I wouldn't feel very comfortable advising anyone on or even answering for myself.

 

[JimD]

CheriS.
Yes I was told that. No I am not the one who started that. As you know, Ive only been around for a while. It would be impossible for it to have started at me. No I did not tell people. 1 person asked me, I stated that it was not absolute and I also said that I did not want a he said she said started because of it. This person also said that it would not go any further.
I am not a rumor mill nor do I care to speak with those who like be.
Sorry for any grief my bad judgment may have caused you.
Just shows that there really are very few people around that are as true as they say they are. For a community that says they are in this for a good outcome, very few are working together.
Jim.

 

[varnyard]

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:25:03 -0400
From: "Dachiu" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Fwd: DSC01592.JPG;DSC01593.JPG]
There is a disclaimer that this not be reproduced attached to the to the cover letter. :-(

Forwarded Message [ Download File | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 10:17:26 -0600
From: "J&J Reptiles" <[email protected]>
Subject: DSC01592.JPG;DSC01593.JPG
To: "Dachiu" <[email protected]>

HTML Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]


DSC01592.JPG;DSC01593.JPG

Jim, does this look like something you seen before?

 

[walker75]

CheriS.
Yes I was told that. No I am not the one who started that. As you know, Ive only been around for a while. It would be impossible for it to have started at me. No I did not tell people. 1 person asked me, I stated that it was not absolute and I also said that I did not want a he said she said started because of it. This person also said that it would not go any further.
I am not a rumor mill nor do I care to speak with those who like be.
Sorry for any grief my bad judgment may have caused you.
Just shows that there really are very few people around that are as true as they say they are. For a community that says they are in this for a good outcome, very few are working together.
Jim.

So where is Vicki ??????

She is always quick to post against anything when Cheri S posts.

VICKI way back when Tere came out and told us of this Virus at affected her colony

I Thought they where YOUR DRAGON LINES NOW I know they are.

This is what I mean by devastating colonies selling a POSTIVE DRAGON somewhere down the line and knowing this ... doing it and then letting it be OK . IT is not OK

Seems you have had a MAJOR hand in spreading this virus around the US market as well as exporting it now into Canada ?

So others HERE in the USA that export dragons around the world are doing this knowingly ? b/c they all have it right? the deadly strain?

I WILL go and check timeatic on exporting diseased animals in and out of countries.

In the US ....Hawaii is one if you are going to send an animal to you may want TO make sure you can pay the huge fines for doing do. b/c it is in the Tens of thousands of dollars.

Animals are quarantined for 6 months with paper work and health certificates

How many years? How many dragons?

How many babies do you sell a YEAR ?

TO knowingly & possibly Cross Contaminate others stock and spread this is just so very Wrong

On another note while traveling in and out of the USA to Canada you cannot take flowers or fruit because of contamination.

I will reseach this for animals and ask IMMIGRATION officials about this today....... you can bet on it

 

[Neverland Dragons]

I am "the person" who asked Jim about it and what I said is that I did not want to ask on a public forum (the thread that he made the statement on). I also mentioned that had not been my experience and that when I asked Tammy she flat out said it was not CheriS who told her to put animals down. I did let you know that as well. This was a case of not intending to do any more than make sure the truth is known, but it is highly likely that this has been spread well beyond you Jim, so I felt the more important issue was for Cheri to be able to defend her reputation. It started out as a simple question without ulterior motives, but I made the call to tell Cheri because she has been under attack from a select few for quite a while and I knew simply that this was not true (even before I emailed you). These statements were probably made in cases where there is no other information than what the people are told, so the obvious place to set the record straight would be a place where many would see it and yes, I made the decision to tell Cheri so she could handle it how she felt best.

 

[JimD]

Yes Bobby.
I had permission to use it. The disclaimer is in case it went to the wrong person ie. wrong fax number.
Jim

 

[DaremoAlpha]

Hey Bobby the letter thing you just asked Jim about with the disclaimer... all I could see from the body and attachment lines was that is was 2 jpg images which could be of anything. A Disclaimer on something like that in my eyes could merely be for copyright protection of the images.

In short it is very vague what you are showing here buddy. I am missing what your saying for sure.

 

[JimD]

Seems you have had a MAJOR hand in spreading this virus around the US market as well as exporting it now into Canada ?

When was the last shipment of dragons?

DaremoAlpha.
It was some information my Vet put together for me. Hes trying real hard to make something out of nothing.
Jim

 

[DaremoAlpha]

Ok so the jpg was from scanned images then... thanks for clearing that up.


To Everybody--- If your sending documents that you don't want altered Don't use PDF formats. I have just found out that there are a few very good computer programs that will allow people to screw with PDF files to add stuff or clear out other things. Jpg and other graphic formats are harder to mess with because of resolution differences but even then are not totally safe.

 

[walker75]

Seems you have had a MAJOR hand in spreading this virus around the US market as well as exporting it now into Canada ?

When was the last shipment of dragons?

DaremoAlpha.
It was some information my Vet put together for me. Hes trying real hard to make something out of nothing.
Jim

It was a queston Jim D ...

Now another question if you are her distributor when was the last shipment or when will there be a shipment ?

When they hatch out ? The strongest ones ? The ones that where breed with out testing for the Virus ? All questions

The ones that LOOK healthy and big? Another question?

Or will she now test and take other actions or continue to do business as usual.

OR

Move on to another markets as in exporting to Canada then the UK or around the WORLD IT is possible again a good question ??

Again another question how many dragons does Dachiu hatch out a year?

Sandfire stated his to be around 9,0000 plus what he buys to sell when not producing.

Again all questions to be or should be answered?

 

[walker75]

correction 9,000 not 9,0000

 

[JimD]

Walker75.
Ill answer in order of your questions.
Last year and we are not sure.
probably not, probably,not sure,
good chance.
Do you know if THEY, not her just for clarification, test? I do!
They have a good market there. Were just lucky to be able to get some.
I dont know how many they hatch out each year.
If I can answer any more, feel free to ask. I have no problem taking calls.
Jim.

 

[CheriS]

JimD,

But you were apart of the rumor mill, Bobby posted something, you replied
like both of you knew this information as a fact, that now turns out to be lies you both were told from someone else and you told to others. It does not matter if it was one personally or posted were hundreds see it.

I do not mean to be picking on you, but you and Mr Hill are prime examples of people that were GREATLY mislead and influenced with lies about this and came down harshly on others because of it. This thread on Denise was started because of that, your and Bobby's comments on a another thread was made because of that and that is not one person, that is to hundreds that read it and know who you are implying. I would like to ask that both you go back to that thread, quote what was prior said by you, that you both know is a lie now and make a retraction ON THAT THREAD

That goes a long way to restoring your character and integrity

 

[CheriS]

I want to say something else in defense of Denise and all she went through with this.

Her heart is in the care of her dragons and the health of the species, not in making money, not in cornering a market, that is just pathetic that someone would even think or suggest such a thing.

From the day she first heard about this issue, she has been supportive of those losing dragons, learning all she can and helping others. You all have no idea or clue somethings that she does personally or has offered to others, not for profit, but from her heart. This was the wrong tree to be barking up

I do understand how easy it is to be influenced by someone that you think is a professional and knows facts, I have been there too.

Several years ago I was told by Rob and Vicki Dachiu that all dragons had this also. I found out in my own case with my dragons, that was not true, I had negative ones, and by some tests that are the most accurate available ever. They not only looks for the viral particles, but for the disease also. Liver studies of the animal and they were NEGATIVE! I even had one lab pull the slides again and have them rechecked as I was convinced the lab had to have made a mistake. I upset the Dr there, when I asked him to pull them again and check again specifically for adenovirus and then questioned their ability to made sure they could detect it.......all based on what Vicki told me, so I know how influencing she can be.

Since then I know many others that have the same thing, I have talked to their vets, to some of the labs and seen the necropsy or liver studies. They were negative, there are dragons that are negative of any trace of adenovirus. We found out where the majority of animals that were getting sick and dying or not thriving came from. There may be several strains of adenovirus, I do not know, but we know where the ones that have a potential deadly form of it came from. Do many breeders have it now? Yes, there have been several years to circulate those dragons through out the US and now to Canada overseas too.