Inquiry, Denise Latanzi AKA, Denisebme www.Calidragons.com

[varnyard]

And JimD AKA J&J Reptiles imported them into Canada, he says that Canada knows they were infected.

 

[CheriS]

Vicki, Your pathological lying and twisting comments Syndrome is kicking up again.

I NEVER said there were benign strains..... NO ONE KNOWS THAT, that has been said many times too.......let me get it for you exactly as it was written there so others are not getting misinformation again from you

It has been said there may be more than one strain, and some may be benign, correct?

notice the MAY and it is even in bold on that post. Even a slow learner should be able to make that out in that sentence. NO WHERE have I or anyone said there was a benign strain, it has been said there may be more than one strain, there may be only one, NO ONE KNOWS That is in Dr Jacobsons letter to me also, remember? NO? here let me get that for you too

It may turn out that there may be different strains of this virus in bearded dragons that cause different degrees of mortality.

NO said there is-NO one is saying there is not. No one knows, you certainly do not know. But if Breeder "A"had animals dying off and it was attributed to adenovirus and you bought some from them at that time, especially the same lines they and others later had it in that were dying.. say your breeder "B" and you sell to breeder "C", Breeder "D" Breeder "E" and Breeder "F", then 3 of those have mass die offs too..... Guess what?

 

[Dachiu]

Cheri,
We never said that you told anyone to put any animals down - but I will state that
it is the information posted on your web site, plus the information that you consistently post on the forums - that had led this community to view adenovirus as some deadly plague - which it certainly is not based on the actual health of positive tested animals. New people come into the hobby and repeat the same crap to others.

You have put people in a position to need to make a choice between having diseased animals or putting them down, giving them away or selling them off cheap to wholesalers.
I DO have emails from people who have done such a thing - based on information presented/circulated by you. One of these are someone that both you and I recommended to others. He/she have always had solid, healthy animals. In this persons observations - a few stressed, most did very well - and the stressed ones were euthanized. Instead of promoting stress management through tweaking the husbandry, they were put down and it was chalked up to adenovirus. New symptom?

 

[shrap]

Shrap you asked the question of the day.
I would be happy if someone has negative animals - if you can do it, that's great. That means it can be done and we can all learn something from them.

The emotional end of it comes from Chasity's stunt in combination with the silence from Denise and the information we have here - which no one bothered to hold out their hand for.

Vickie,

I dont even own a dragon. Never have. I stumbled into this mess while researching dragons because my little girl wants one. She has spent the last two years proving with her leos that she is responsible enough.

So I had no dog in this fight. Right up until I seen people trying to turn Denise into a bad guy. I dont even know Denise. Didnt matter. I just knew it wasnt right. You say you didnt encourage Bobby, but I sure didnt see you make a single post publicly trying to discourage him. Not a single post saying, "Bobby we dont know the truth yet". For 3 days you kept pointing out inconsistencies in Denise's posts to Bobby and showing him other info to contradict Denise. Then set back and watched him go after her publicly. Not once did you try to correct Bobby publicly or try to discourage him in any way in any of these threads. NOT ONCE. You wanted him to go after her or you would have stepped forward and said something publicly. I firmly believe that.

You seen what he was doing for 3 days. And kept pumping him info on the phone/PM/email to use against Denise. You may not have said "Bobby go do this", but you sure made sure he had ammo and you seen for 3 days what he was doing with it. So you sure didnt object to what he was trying to do. Which was to hang an innocent person.

 

[varnyard]

You don't get it? If she can make out like all dragons have it, then all of them are worth the same and there would be no hope of virus free dragons.

I have found out the truth Vickie!!! There are still plenty of dragons not infected by your virus!!

 

[puppytoes72]

just curious..vicky,are you going to change the disclaimer on your site now?

 

[varnyard]

Dachiu; You have put people in a position to need to make a choice between having diseased animals or putting them down, giving them away or selling them off cheap to wholesalers.

And you were buying them? Knowing they were infected for resale??

 

[shrap]

Bobby,

Correct me if I am wrong. Did you not tell me that after Vickie went on and on to you that no PCR blood test existed, then she found out that it did and posted about it.... the first thing she said to you on the phone was "but Bobby we dont even know that she really tested".

That dont sound to me like someone trying to discourage Bobby. It sounds like someone who flat out wanted him to continue going after an innocent person.

 

[puppytoes72]

You don't get it? If she can make out like all dragons have it, then all of them are worth the same and there would be no hope of virus free dragons.

I have found out the truth Vickie!!! There are still plenty of dragons not infected by your virus!!

dont take this the wrong way,i really dont want to argue but you had alot of negative things to say to me when i posted that thread about sandfire and you took kevins side.vicki is doing the same thing and saying the same things as kevin.but you took HIS side.why was I wrong for just notifying the public? im watching these MANY pages of arguing and i find it really ironic.it seems like we have the same belief now?my gripe was that sandfire believes that most dragons have it so why should they test.YET they dont inform ppl of it on their website.

 

[varnyard]

Bobby,

Correct me if I am wrong. Did you not tell me that after Vickie went on and on to you that no PCR blood test existed, then she found out that it did and posted about it.... the first thing she said to you on the phone was "but Bobby we dont even know that she really tested".

That dont sound to me like someone trying to discourage Bobby. It sounds like someone who flat out wanted him to continue going after an innocent person.

That is correct Sammy!!

 

[varnyard]

dont take this the wrong way,i really dont want to argue but you had alot of negative things to say to me when i posted that thread about sandfire and you took kevins side.vicki is doing the same thing and saying the same things as kevin.but you took HIS side.why was I wrong for just notifying the public? im watching these MANY pages of arguing and i find it really ironic.it seems like we have the same belief now?my gripe was that sandfire believes that most dragons have it so why should they test.YET they dont inform ppl of it on their website.

I did not know the truth at that time.

 

[Dachiu]

Wes,

The answer would have to be no to all of your questions. We have not tested any of our breeders and it is posted on our web site that the babies are not tested.
Our animals are no different than they were 5 years ago - adeno or not.

I will say that our animals are no different than the rest of the country regarding adeno and based upon the positive rate returned with repetitive testing - I think it would be safe to say we’re positive too.

After almost 8 months of testing, there are still no adeno-tested negative babies for sale that I know of. It would seem people are having trouble getting it out small colonies?

We don’t even test our group - but through the repeated testing on positives we set up from - - out of the hundreds of breeders in the USA we can account for 5% of the USA total EM tests performed in Ill. since August. Seems to me that the majority - don’t test.
(these figures are pretty sad though, huh?)

Ps - We’ve also tested from a private source - a gecko… with “moderate’ levels found.

 

[puppytoes72]

I did not know the truth at that time.

so are you saying i was treated unfairly?

 

[Wilomn]

vicki, have you sold dragons that you knew had siblings or parents that were AV positive in the last year? In the last 2 years? In the last 3 years? In the last 4 years? How many times, if you have, have you sent shipments to jimd that had blood relatives that were AV positive? How about your other sales both to distributors as well as private parties? Were the buyers of infected animals, if any sales of such were made, EVER notified of the possible status of the lizards they purchased from you?

I would like for VICKI to answer these questions. Right down the line if you please. Someone so caring of the Dragons as you continually claim to be should have no problem answering, agian if needs be, these few and simple questions posed by me.

thanks in advance.

 

[varnyard]

Wes,

The answer would have to be no to all of your questions. We have not tested any of our breeders and it is posted on our web site that the babies are not tested.
Our animals are no different than they were 5 years ago - adeno or not.

I will say that our animals are no different than the rest of the country regarding adeno and based upon the positive rate returned with repetitive testing - I think it would be safe to say we’re positive too.

After almost 8 months of testing, there are still no adeno-tested negative babies for sale that I know of. It would seem people are having trouble getting it out small colonies?

We don’t even test our group - but through the repeated testing on positives we set up from - - out of the hundreds of breeders in the USA we can account for 5% of the USA total EM tests performed in Ill. since August. Seems to me that the majority - don’t test.
(these figures are pretty sad though, huh?)

Ps - We’ve also tested from a private source - a gecko… with “moderate’ levels found.

That is your facts!! Do you still believe your lies? I don't!!!!!

Dachiu: I will say that our animals are no different than the rest of the country regarding adeno and based upon the positive rate returned with repetitive testing

You are the one spreading it in the U.S. and Canada. You buy infected babies for what?

 

[Dachiu]

Bobby, we dont buy infected babies. What are you talking about?

 

[Dachiu]

infected = unhealthy

 

[puppytoes72]

vicky,didnt you test a bin of beardies last month and they came up positive?the disclaimer on your site insinuates that you do NOT know if you have adeno,but that is kinda misleading dont you think?i think the honest thing to do would be to change that disclaimer on your site and state that you HAVE found adeno in the beardies that you have tested

 

[varnyard]

infected = unhealthy, you had these last year?

Did you buy infected babies??

 

[Wilomn]

We

We don’t even test our group - but through the repeated testing on positives we set up from - - out of the hundreds of breeders in the USA we can account for 5% of the USA total EM tests performed in Ill. since August. Seems to me that the majority - don’t test.
QUOTE]
I'm confused.

What have you done to set up tests from.....what?

Out of the hundreds of breeders in the USA, fairly large as land mass goes, you can account for 5% of the USA total EM tests in Ill., a fairly small land mass. The comparison here is completely lost on me. If you don't test, what do these test that you account for mean. What are their origins?

Where did you get your 5% number for Ill. as well as "hundreds of breeders in the USA?"

I'm sort of slow with numbers so feel free to dumb it down for me.

thanks.